# Budgie Health Questions and Concerns



## lvolt (Dec 8, 2015)

First thing I want to say is hello to everybody and a thanks towards this forum as I've been here before many times and learned quite a lot of things about budgies, as well identifying a health problem for one of my budgies.

As I am a 3 months new budgie owner, I have some questions regarding some behaviors and health issues that may still be present with my budgies. 
I have 4 budgies, two males and two females. One of my female has been brought to me by my grandpa and at the time when he gave it to me I only had one male and female that are kind of a couple.(They still work on their relationship ). My family told me to give her away, but I love pets and animals so much that in a couple of minutes I've became attached to her and I couldn't give her away. I brought her a partner and I was forced to buy as well a cage for her and her new partner to live in.

The hen that has been brought to me by my grandpa is sometimes aggressive, and I was forced to buy a new cage for her and her new partner because of this, because I don't know why she was always picking a fight with the other male budgie that was not her partner and as well had a big fight with the other hen, where I was forced to intervene to stop them 
My first male budgie is named TLB(The Little Buddy), he has a face of an innocent, is so calm and harmless that its like a little baby angel :budgie:
And because of that he was always crying and running when the aggressive hen was attacking him (her name is Furiosa, go figure). So I had to move her with the new male budgie (Snowflake) in the new bought cage only for them. Surprisingly enough she is not attacking Snowflake as long as he doesn't stay in her way and Snowflake always sings to her and to my surprise she even kisses him when he flirts with her, but the moment he does something wrong she tries to peck him 

And here comes my first question. Why is Furiosa like this? I've searched through here and on internet and by the answers that I've found I think it may be some hormonal problems, I also think she is the oldest of the bunch because she has full brown cere and I say that she may have hormonal problems because she has a little crust on her cere, and I'm pretty sure it is not mites or anything as the crust is not big and is brown as her nose color.
But I'm asking if maybe she has a health issue because I've read on internet that sometimes when budgie are aggressive they might have some health issues. I want to mention that she is active as a normal budgie would be, eats well (even fruits), drinks well and is full of energy when she is flying. But I'm asking of her well being because when Snowflake approaches her and he doesn't try to kiss her she attacks him. (I also put her back in cage with TLB to see how she reacts towards him, but I am getting the same answer, she still attacks him, although not as bad as before). 

And my second question is for Snowflake and the other hen, called Bella (Bellatrix). I don't know why but both Snowflake and Bella, when they get tired they breath so heavily and I can hear something like a click in their chest when they breath after they fly too much and get tired. Is this something to be worried for, because a friend of mine has a budgie for almost 3 years now and sometimes when his budgie gets tired I can hear this clicking sound in him too. I want to mention that I hear this sound only when I hold them in my hands after they fly. 
And regarding the cold feet. Bella has her feet almost and always kind of cold, but again she is very active, eats well, drinks well and doesn't give any signs of sickness, it may be like this because she is paying so much attention to everything that happens around her and she may be stressed? (Although she was the first budgie that I've got of the bunch, and she most of the times now stays relaxed and with her feather fluffed, not the sick stance though. I also want to mention that for a few days now, Bella gets tired a little faster than she did before when she flies. She was flying like an airplane on turbo before and now she flies like an ''almost running out of fuel'' airplane and getting tired a lot more faster. Why?

Sorry for the long post. I've read some FAQs here and some other things regarding the behavior and health issues, but I want owners with experience to tell me what might be the problems. And maybe you may ask why I'm not taking them to a vet, all I have to say is that I don't have any bird vet around where I live and I even had to say to one of the vets here what medicine he should give to one of my budgies when he had mites. (I identified his mites in an early stage by reading this forum, so thanks again to all, and he is fine now )


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

Welcome to the posting side of the forum. Glad you have found the site useful, we can all relate to that. Most of the thing's you have described sound very normal to me. Hen's can be very hormonal and territorial, so what your experiencing isn't unusual. You need to concentrate on keeping your pair's out of breeding condition which is leading to some of your problem now and will only get worse. Amount of daylight hour's you let them have, along with diet you feed, are big consideration's as well as not providing anything that can be used as a nest in their living area. How big are the cages you have them in ? Too small of a cage can contribute to the behavior you describe as well.

Clicking sound's are usually an indication of respiratory issues and need to be addressed. Perhap's your vet can consult with an avian vet on your behalf to get the treatment your bird's need.

What kind of diet are you feeding and do you use organic Apple Cider Vinegar in their water on a regular basis, i.e. 2-3 times a week ?
Since you have the situation with no avian vet available, arming yourself with knowledge is very important, and what we have here in experienced owners and available info will be a big help for you. 

Would love to see some pic's of your pair's and cage setup's..


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## lvolt (Dec 8, 2015)

Jonah said:


> Welcome to the posting side of the forum. Glad you have found the site useful, we can all relate to that. Most of the thing's you have described sound very normal to me. Hen's can be very hormonal and territorial, so what your experiencing isn't unusual. You need to concentrate on keeping your pair's out of breeding condition which is leading to some of your problem now and will only get worse. Amount of daylight hour's you let them have, along with diet you feed, are big consideration's as well as not providing anything that can be used as a nest in their living area. How big are the cages you have them in ? Too small of a cage can contribute to the behavior you describe as well.
> 
> Clicking sound's are usually an indication of respiratory issues and need to be addressed. Perhap's your vet can consult with an avian vet on your behalf to get the treatment your bird's need.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. I've attached some images that I've found on my phone, because right now I am at some relatives and I can't go home to take some fresh photos, although those are just 3 days old photos. The first photo is with the cage that inhabits my first pair, both of the cages look alike, and it contains my yellow hen (Bella) and green male (TLB). Both of the pairs have in their cages the same exact things: two cuttlefish bones were they usually like to sleep, a water support, a swing, two food containers (both filled with seeds that contains vitamins and eggs and a lot of things), in between the bars you see some fruits leftover (they only eat them from the bars, they have there apple, orange, banana, mango, etc.) and they also had spray millet and honey sticks, but I need to buy them again as they love them sooo much.

Second photo is with my yellow hen, the one that was flying fast and now flies not so fast and gets tired quicker. From the photo one can see, I think, that she looks healthy and active as she was quite wary when I took the photo.

Third photo is with Snowflake (white male) from the second pair. Again the budgie in question regardless the breathing. Although he flies OK, not too fast and not too slow, I can hear sometimes that clicking sound he makes when breathing and tired.

And final photo is with my second hen, Furiosa, that is the partner of Snowflake. The aggressive one. You can see if you look closer that she has some kind of little crust on her cere. And yes, again, I've found out from this forum about the breeding situation of hens and I've made sure they don't have any breeding condition as I don't want little fluff balls to appear out of nowhere until I'm certain about all of my budgies well being.

And to answer your questions, I never gave them organic apple cider vinegar, their diet consists of seeds with vitamins, fruits, cuttlefish bones, spray millet and honey sticks with fruits on them as well (although I've created them specific times when they get spray millet and honey sticks as I've read that they can get fat from eating a lot of those, and all my budgies eat them like crazy when I give it to them).

And again I want to mention that I hear that clicking sound when they are tired and breath only if I hold them in my hands after they fly, If they are down that sound can't be heard, the sound is heard also for about 2-3 seconds, although the fact that Bella doesn't fly as fast as before concerns me a little. It may also be because now she sometimes lets me catch her while flying and she lands on my hands, that she doesn't fly as fast as before?

And one more question that I forgot before to ask. Can I give them dried fruits mix? I've seen some owners give it to their birds, but again, I need some advice from experienced owners.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Hi and :welcome: to Talk Budgies!

Your budgies are very pretty.  Furiosa is currently in breeding condition which, as Randy has told you can lead to aggressive behavior. 
Budgies need to have the biggest cage possible -- The bigger, the better. 
They need room to stretch their wings as well as to have some space to get away from one another.
I suggest getting new cages for each pair of your budgies. 
The cages they are currently in are not large enough for two birds. 
The minimum size recommended for two budgies is 30" long x 18" wide x 18" high. http://talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/24411-cage-sizes.html

Additionally, it is very important for you to provide them with natural wood perches of varying diameters to exercise their feet. Plastic perches and wooden dowel perches can quickly lead to bumblefoot.

Essentials to a Great Cage-Talk Budgies Forums

Grapevine Perches and multi-branch perches are good choices.





Clicking sounds after flying fast can be a sign of a respiratory issue.

Respiratory Problems

To help with respiratory issues, you can put your budgie's cage in the bathroom when you run hot water through the shower so the cage is in the hot steamy air -- that will help open the airways.

Another option is to tent the cage with a sheet and place a pot or kettle of boiling water under the sheet where your budgie is unable to touch it and allow the steam to accumulate that way. If you have pure eucalyptus oil, you can put one tiny drop into the water as that will also help to clear the airways so the budgie is better able to breathe. A warm air humidifier is helpful for budgies as well.

You indicated there are no Avian vets near you. 
Have you checked the links below as well as doing a google search for Avian Vets near your location? 
(As you do not have your location in your profile we don't know where you are in order to try to help. )

Association of Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/index.php

International Vets Register
http://www.parrotmag.com/vets

Bird Vets Near You
http://www.birdvetsnearyou.com/ml2/...F5DE88A8EC01&gclid=COaCna2x3qoCFcLBKgoda0ZZug

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma.
When you rely on unskilled individuals, you delay effective treatment. This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recover than it would have if you seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.

If there are absolutely no avian vets in the area, your next best option is to find an Exotic Vet that deals with birds rather than a regular vet that handles only dogs and cats.
If you are in a country that has few vets, perhaps you can develop a relationship with one whereby you provide the vet with information and he/she works with you to ensure your budgies receive the best care possible.

Apple Cider Vinegar is a natural probiotic that helps keeps the budgies' digestive tract healthy and promotes immunity.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-holistic-natural-remedies/103936-apple-cider-vinegar.html

To familiarize yourself with the forums, please take the time to read through all of the How To Guides, the FAQs and the stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
You'll find most of your basic questions are answered after you've read through all of them.

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http://talkbudgies.com/emergency-room/225585-my-birdy-first-aid-kit.html
http://talkbudgies.com/your-budgies-health/102714-quarantine-really-important.html
http://talkbudgies.com/general-budgie-info-[articles]/227841-50-common-budgie-dangers-watch-out.html

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## lvolt (Dec 8, 2015)

FaeryBee said:


> *Hi and :welcome: to Talk Budgies!
> 
> Your budgies are very pretty.  Furiosa is currently in breeding condition which, as Randy has told you can lead to aggressive behavior.
> Budgies need to have the biggest cage possible -- The bigger, the better.
> ...


Hello FaeryBee. Sorry for attaching the pictures instead of sharing them, as I had in mind to do so, but I opted for the quicker and laziest resolve 

I also read that post with the cage sizes and I had in mind for some time now to buy them bigger cages, although it might not look like in the photo, but the cage is 30x23x39 and is spacious for two budgies, also they don't seem to have a problem with the space of those they have, as they can stretch their wings with no problem, even flapping them from now and then, and aside from Furiosa trying to peck Snowflake when she doesn't like his face from time to time , they don't have any trouble finding their own personal space, neither of the bunch. And if you look in the first photo the branch that my pair is sitting is actually hand made by me from a wood that is not dangerous for them (as I've researched this before making the branches) and the other pair has one as well.

As for the vet, I've searched on Google for vets around me but I couldn't find any nearby or close to me, that specialize in birds. And I didn't mentioned the location of where I live and I won't say it because I know a vet from around here that from time to time checks this kind of forums as well and I may get into trouble 
Think about this, where I live, 99% of the vets are for dogs and cats and only 1% for birds, especially for exotic birds. 
I really love animals and I treat them as I would treat myself, and I would make everything possible to make sure they have everything that they need and they are healthy.

I would also go to one vet in my area that is new and I wasn't to him before, but I will talk to him to see if he treated any birds before, because I had before a male budgie that was sick and this one vet said that maybe he doesn't have enough vitamins and he just gave me vitamins to feed my budgie and he died after just 2 days.

I will also try to put their cages in the bathroom when the hot water is running. Thanks!


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