# Help, my bird's cere is rapidly turning dark brown!



## Jameshudson

I recently bought a new male budgie for my 8 year old, he had a deep blue cere when I got him three weeks ago. He was born last October. About a week ago I noticed brownish spots forming in the center of his cere, today the dark brown colour has almost taken over! He seems to be a healthy bird but Im worried for his health, I've never seen anything like it before. Does anyone know what it might be?

The first photo is from today, the second is 5 days old


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## Therm

Are you sure this budgie didn't have a small amount of white on his cere? I'm wondering if you could have a female budgie, going into breeding condition. 
If you're 100% certain you have a male, then I would book an appointment with an avian vet to discuss your budgies health.


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## FaeryBee

*Hi! :welcome: to Talk Budgies

Do you have any pictures of when the budgie was first purchased for comparison to the recent pictures?

From what I can see of the cere in the pictures you posted, the budgie may be a female.
The pictures are not the best for viewing the cere. Full frontal close-up pictures taken in natural light are best.
Posting full size pictures rather than thumbnails would also be helpful.

If the budgie is indeed a male (and not a female coming into breeding condition) then the cere turning brown is a symptom of problems that will need to be addressed promptly by a qualified Avian Vet.

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma. 
This is important as "regular" vets will often overlook symptoms that are quickly obvious to an Avian Vet.
When you rely on anyone who has not had training in Avian diagnosis and care, you may be delaying effective treatment. 
This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recovery than it would have if you seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.

Distinction between an Avian Vet and a Vet that "Will See Birds"

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## aluz

Welcome to the forums,

If your budgie hatched in October of last year, this would make him roughly 5 months old. At this stage and in most cases, the cere on a young male should have a deep purplish colour and not yet have the mature royal blue colour.
At any point during these few months you have had your budgie, did you see a decent amount of white colour on the cere?
Do you have photos of when you got your budgie, so that we can see the colour of the cere or even photos before you saw the brown colour taking over?
It would be good to see how this progressed, if you are able to post pics.

If in fact your budgie is male and his cere is turning brown, then he could have an issue with hormonal imbalance and booking an appointment at the avian vet specialist would be the best course of action, so that your budgie is properly examined, diagnosed and treated.


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## bparakeets

I agree with the previous posts, please post pictures of your bird before this change happened if you have any. As stated above, if your budgie is male, this could be a sign of a serious illness; but if it's a female, than this is normal. Keep us updated on your little budgie's condition!


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## Jameshudson

Hello! Thanks for your comments and for being so welcoming. I finally went to the vet today and he's or shall I say, she's a female! This is the first time I've seen such a blue cere on a female, I thought she had liver problems. Phew. Although I don't have pictures before the cere started turning, I can that the middle of her cere around her nostrils was actually quite white so I should have taken that as sign. I was worried because I had had my childhood male budgie turn brown at 11 years old and he died of liver cancer. Poor guy. SO I'm just having my son pick another name and we'll be purchasing a male partner shortly (once she's been tamed enough).


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## Therm

Now I've seen the picture, it does look more like a male than a female. Maybe it's the lighting, but I'd be interested to see what some of the others think about it. 

Can I ask why you're going to buy another budgie? Is if just as a friend for this one so it's not so lonely? 
I just want to make you aware that it's possible your budgies might be a little less tame when they have a same species friend to play with.


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## FaeryBee

*If you do end up choosing to get a friend for your little female, please be sure to follow quarantine procedures:

Why Quarantine?

After quarantine, the two budgies should be introduced in neutral territory:

http://talkbudgies.com/new-budgie-arrivals/295177-introducing-two-budgies.html

Additionally, please be sure to read the following threads if you are planning to have a mixed gender pair when the time comes:

http://talkbudgies.com/budgie-breeding/327881-heartfelt-plea-forum-members-new-old.html

When We Don't Want Eggs

Many budgies are quite happy as solo budgies. 
Please keep in mind that not all budgies get along so if you get another you should be prepared to house it separately on a permanent basis if the two are not compatible.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-gen...ship-differences-dynamics-between-flocks.html*


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## Jameshudson

I found a photo from my phone, a bit blurry. But you can see the white. The vet I saw was an avian vet, but even she was a bit surprised at the intensity of the blue around the edges. Although she did say that it happens more often than you think, I guess cere color is not really reliable under a year. The breeder who sold her to me seemed pretty convinced it was a boy....:yawn:

I'll try the photo thing, but I'm not super good with this kind of stuff...

My older son wants a budgie too, but I won't be putting them in the same cage, or in the same room for that matter, in my experience budgies are quite happy solo, at least mine was (had him 12 years), of course that doesn't mean they won't have play dates!


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## aluz

Indeed, from this latest photo you have attached there is a lot of white colour on the cere.
As for the updated pictures, upon looking at the cere, I would also say that your budgie is a male. From the photos, I'm unable to see the actual brown colour, at least it doesn't look like the typical colour when the ceres on females start to tan and get dark brown. To me that looks more like a darker spot on the cere.

I also couldn't help to notice that you have a sandpaper cover on the perch.
It's not recommended to use sandpaper as these can be quite abrasive to the budgies' delicate skin of the feet and this can promote sores. There are additional health concerns also if your budgie happens to chew on the sandpaper, this can cause digestive upset and in more extreme cases can lead to crop impaction.
You can find good ideas for perches of different sizes and textures by checking this link: http://talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/31719-essentials-great-cage.html


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## Jameshudson

Thanks for your input, I actually only had that sandpaper on the first day and took it off immediately after doing some research, can you imagine that the guy at the pet store recommended it to me?! I'll try to take some better quality pictures with natural light and a good camera tomorrow. Although the vet told me she was female and healthy it's not like she did a DNA test. So we'll see...



aluz said:


> Indeed, from this latest photo you have attached there is a lot of white colour on the cere.
> As for the updated pictures, upon looking at the cere, I would also say that your budgie is a male. From the photos, I'm unable to see the actual brown colour, at least it doesn't look like the typical colour when the ceres on females start to tan and get dark brown. To me that looks more like a darker spot on the cere.
> 
> I also couldn't help to notice that you have a sandpaper cover on the perch.
> It's not recommended to use sandpaper as these can be quite abrasive to the budgies' delicate skin of the feet and this can promote sores. There are additional health concerns also if your budgie happens to chew on the sandpaper, this can cause digestive upset and in more extreme cases can lead to crop impaction.
> You can find good ideas for perches of different sizes and textures by checking this link: http://talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/31719-essentials-great-cage.html


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## StarlingWings

Hi there and :welcome: to Talk Budgies!

You've been given great advice :thumbsup: However, I agree that from the pictures posted it really seems that he could be male. The brown on the cere really isn't what a female's cere coming into condition is. 

I would consider perhaps getting a second opinion or getting a DNA test to be sure! 

Meanwhile, be sure to read through the forums to stay updated on the very best of budgie care as well as to familiarize yourself with Talk Budgies. To start, check out the Budgie Articles and "stickies", or threads "stuck" to the top of each subforum for easy reference. 

If you have any questions after reading through everything, be sure to ask as we'd love to help! 

Keep us posted on how your little one is doing soon! 

Cheers! :wave:


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## FaeryBee

*The last picture you posted is the one taken when you first got the budgie -- is that correct?

In the latest picture the budgie appears to have a very bright blue cere with pronounced white around the nares.
In the pictures posted earlier in the thread showing which show the cere turning brown, to me the bluish color looks light enough to be a female. 
However, computers do vary in their color representation.

I'm glad you've taken the budgie to an Avian Vet for a check-up.

When male budgie's cere turns brown it is a definite symptom of illness and the concern of some members is that the way the cere is changing doesn't look like a "normal" change of a female's cere when it comes into condition.

Did your Avian Vet do any testing on your budgie when she was in for her appointment or did she simply do a physical exam and tell you the bird is female?

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-general-budgie-info/340410-avian-physical-examination.html

No one is trying to scare you and everyone just wants to make sure your budgie is healthy which has resulted in the additional posts.

I'd recommend calling the vet back and relaying the concerns. 
You may wish to ask if additional tests should be done and/or consider seeking advice from another Avian Vet to get a second opinion just to err on the side of caution.

Best wishes!*


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## Jameshudson

Finally it is a male. I took him to a different vet and actually did tests confirming he was indeed a male and he had some kind of hormonal imbalance. He was completely dark brown at the end! She gave him a treatment to follow for one month and he's been bright blue and healthy for a little while now. I had no idea all of this was even possible!


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## Cody

It's nice that the the gender has been confirmed. I am interested to know what the treatment was, can you please share that info?


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## FaeryBee

*James,

I'm glad to hear you took your budgie into see another Vet for a second opinion.

It's great to know you do, indeed, have a male and that he has been/is being treated for the hormone imbalance.

Will you please share what treatment plan your Avian Vet recommended?*


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