# Stringy Feathers and Constant Shivering?



## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

My budgie ("Pudgie") has some strange symptoms that have been going on for over a month now. He is about 2 years old, and has never been sick before as far as I can tell. The symptoms are:

- Feathers very stringy and disorganized looking. Pudgie drops like a rock when trying to fly (did clip his wings but that was like 7 months ago).
- Seems to be "shivering" all the time, which is noticed when holding him. Initially I thought this was nervousness, but it seems to be constant. The temp is always ~70 F in here.
- Droppings are green, liquidy, and grainy-looking (as if many specs of sand are in them)
- Lost a lot of weight out of nowhere. Could visibly see and feel breastbone.
- Less energy than usual and sleeping a lot more.
- Tail bobbing was pretty bad.

I took him to the vet, who thought it was a simple infection and put Pudgie on antibiotics (Baytril) for 16 days. That seemed to resolve the weight and energy issues somewhat, but it's a month later and his feathers just continue to look worse to me. Tail bob is still there, but he lost his tail-feathers so it's harder to see. He gained about 4 grams of weight since going to the vet (up to 39 from 35).

The vet seemed clueless about the feathers and shivering problems. I just know he never looked like that before or shivered all the time. Any ideas?

HQ Images of Pudgie - First one old for comparison

*Note: Pink color around Pudgie's mouth is from antibiotics which he hated taking lol.

Thanks!


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi Flagg,
Your bird does not look at all well. One of the first things I think about when I hear about green droppings is a liver problem and often with liver problems the bird becomes more prone to infections. Also when the liver is not functioning properly other things can be effected and if the liver function is greatly compromised there can be effects to the central nervous system that can cause tremors etc. Did you see an avian vet and what tests were done? What are you feeding the bird? I would suggest that if it was not an avian vet that you try and locate one to further access the problem with your bird. This is something that you should not wait on, please seek medical attention for the bird asap.


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

OK thanks Cody, I just scheduled an appointment in a few hours with the vet. What exactly about the pics is the indicator that he looks sick to you? Just the feathers or weight, etc? I only have one budgie so now that I saw pics from a year ago it's more obvious the difference.

Yes it's an avian vet, there weren't any medicate tests done last time, just an examination. I feed him seeds and pellets.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Visually just the feathers, I would at the very least want a gram stain test done on the droppings. Could your bird have ingested something toxic? Can you still feel the keel bone, I would not expect that at 39 grams. There is a huge difference in the feather quality between the old and new pictures and that is very concerning. Please question the vet on the liver issue and the poor feather quality. There are blood tests that can be done but sometimes depending on the condition of the bird the vet may wait until there is some improvement. If the vet can confirm that it may be a liver issue there are meds that can help, one of the most frequently used is milk thistle.


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Yes I can still feel his keel bone, it's pretty sharp. The vet said last time he had a lot of water in his crop (and he has been drinking a ton of water compared to before) and that could increase his weight artificially.

I noticed Pudgie getting sick after going to my parents for a week. The only thing I recall about toxins is both Pudgie and Violet (my parrotlet) were climbing around in their Christmas tree, which was a Douglas Fir. I looked it up and according to websites that was nontoxic. Both birds liked chewing on the pine needles. I noticed pretty fast and took them out of the tree just in case, but there was some exposure there.

I should also say, my parrotlet looks fine feather wise but her droppings have been greenish and watery as long as I can remember. Really it's been so many months I just assumed it was normal because she seems happy and healthy. Specifically I feed both of them Volkman Seeds (Parrotlet and Parakeet editions mixed) and I believe Zupreme pellets. Sometimes they will eat fresh food but very rarely.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Was Pudgie at your parents with you? Take a look at this link and see if perhaps there could have been any exposure to any.
https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Common-Household-Poisons-for-Birds.pdf
Drinking a lot of water is a red flag for many things, diabetes, kidney problems etc. 
Ask the vet about Psittacosis and PDD as I think both of these can have neurological complications. Please update us after your vet visit.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi there and :welcome: to the forums!

Poor scruffy boy :upset: I agree, the poor thing looks ill for sure. Especially consistent watery droppings, inactivity, his feathers, low weight, etc. all point to a more chronic and serious problem. 

Please let us know how he's doing soon! I hope he hangs in there :fingerx: 

Meanwhile, be sure to read through the forums' many budgie articles and "stickies" to ensure you're up to date on all the best practices for budgie care. If you have any questions after doing so, please do ask as we'd be happy to help! 

We hope to see you around and to hear updates on Pudgie. I'm sending lots of healing vibes for your little one! ray: 

Cheers :wave:


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Just got back from the vet. His findings were surprising to me, but here's what he said:

- Pudgie's feather issues likely caused by Violet (parrotlet) over-preening him. Violet has been more aggressive as of late. They preen each other often.
- Droppings look normal (brought both birds). He said green would only be a concern if the (urinates) part was green.
- Weight is good. Pudgie is actually over the average weight @ 39 grams.
- Keel bone is fine and there is adequate muscle around it (guess I am misinterpreting how it's supposed to feel).
- New feathers are growing in, including flight feathers. He spent the most time "analyzing" Pudgie's feathers it seemed.
- Can't explain shivering, but oddly enough Pudgie was not shivering at the vet. The temp is not lower here so no idea...
- Vet asked about sneezing, which hasn't been excessive lately. Told me to keep an eye on that and the weight.

I pressed pretty hard on asking about diseases, liver, kidneys, etc. The vet just didn't seem to have any other conclusion to Pudgie's symptoms other than Violet over-preening him. Since all of his diagnostics seemed normal. He suggested I split them up for 3 weeks, then report back. He sounded very reluctant to do a blood test, due to the bird's small size.

Certainly it's unsettling to think Pudgie could have some chronic condition and is suffering, but this avian vet is pretty highly regarded around here. He seemed confident that there just isn't enough evidence to prove any chronic illness at this point.

PS - Thanks for your kind words and thoughts! I will certainly read up about some Budgie Best Practices!


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Yes, I agree it is unsettling to think that your bird has any type of illness. I hope that splitting them up gives proof to the vets thoughts about over preening, that would certainly be better than to attribute it to some illness. If you don't already have one it would be a good idea to get a gram scale so you can keep track of the weight at least several times a week if not daily. Please keep us posted on his progress.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I just want to take a moment to say "Hi" and welcome to Talk Budgies.

I'll be looking for your updates with regard to Pudgie's condition and hope he will soon be back to 100%. :fingerx:

Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, all of the How To Guides, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and the stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.

Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.

These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.

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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Hi there, :welcome: 

I’m glad to hear that it appears to the avian vet that Pudgie is well. It’s generally not advised to have budgies with other species. Parrotlets, while they are tiny, are true parrots, and have a much different temperament from budgies. While it’s unlikely to happen if they’re buddies, your parrotlet ‘can’ injure your budgie. I have parrots who are bonded friends, but occasionally one will bite the other too hard, and need to be separated. Be especially aware of the risk of both of the birds are sexually mature regardless of gender. They should never be sharing a cage. 

We have some great up to date material for reading on budgies. Whether new or experienced, we recommend everyone to take a look at the Stickies. If you have any other questions, we’re here .


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Well I have an update on Pudgie. Since going to the vet, in his own cage, he seemed to be doing pretty well. I thought his feathers looked a little bit better. On the vet's advice I started giving him vitamins in water every day.

This morning Pudgie seemed fine. He was chattier than usual. But I came home from work and he was super puffed up, standing on the floor of the cage. After trying to handle him for a minute it was clear he was extremely weak, had balance issues, and couldn't stay on the perch. He was struggling to stay awake at all.

Went to the vet immediately. Pudgie was given liquids (intravenously? not sure, they did it in the back). Vet did a gram stain on a dropping which was negative. Weight was still fine. The vet didn't have many other ideas. He mentioned rare diseases and again didn't want to take blood with Pudgie's state. The crop had food in it, but Pudgie wouldn't touch any millet. He was pooping way less than usual (typically every few minutes, now a few times an hour it seemed). Vet gave me another kind of antibiotics to try (TMP/SMZ), and told me to keep Pudgie warm.

Not sure what else I can do. The vet bills are up to $400 now and I still have no idea WTF is wrong with my poor birdy. I don't know how much Pudgie is suffering. But I'm afraid he's not going to last long. He just looks terrible.



http://imgur.com/uIYgRgl


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Poor wee one :upset: He definitely looks sick. Honestly, you've done everything you can. Keep him warm and hopefully the medicine the vet gave you helps him :fingerx: 

Keep us posted, I'm sending lots of healing vibes over for this boy.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry Pudgie is not feeling well, the vet probably gave him fluids just under the skin and that may help him to feel better if he was feeling badly because of dehydration. Please keep us updated.


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Thanks guys. Surprisingly he's back on the perch sleeping and looks a little bit better this morning. Definitely congested as he was sneezing out some small amount of liquid after waking up. I'll keep giving him the antibiotics and let you know how it goes.

Update: He's eating the millet too so that's a nice development.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

That's good news. Since he is sneezing keep a close watch on the nares and if they appear to be clogged and he is not able to clear them take him back to the vet and they can usually clear them out. I hope he continues to improve, keep us posted.


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Well I'm amazed but Pudgie is doing really well. I don't wanna jinx the situation but he was barely moving the other night, and now he's basically back to normal except somewhat weaker. He is eating and drinking a lot, chirping with Violet the Parrotlet who's across the room, and foraging in his cage. I will continue with the SMZ/TMP antibiotics as that seems to have been the cure? Who knows.

So I still have no idea what happened or is happening with Pudgie, but he has made what seems to be a miraculous recovery for now. At the very least I get to spend some more time with him. Thanks everyone for the thoughts.



http://imgur.com/41iihAw


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Prayers, positive thoughts and healing energy for little Pudge. Hoping he continues to improve and will be looking for your updates.*


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Hello again, it's been around 3 months and Pudgie had been doing really well after the last round of antibiotics (TMP-SMZ). His feathers have basically stayed the same, but his energy was better and he was happily vocalizing. I do separate him from Violet the Parrotlet a lot of the time due to her recent aggression.

Starting a few days ago, I started noticing some symptoms. Pudgie started falling off of his perch every now and then, and became less vocal. He also seemed constantly tired. I figured he was coming down with whatever this mysterious illness is yet again. Today it progressed further. He definitely has a serious balance issue or vertigo. He is sitting on the bottom of the cage, constantly tilts his head as if he's trying to "catch up with the spinning world", and every few minutes goes crazy, running around in circles. When I take him out of the cage he runs aimless all over my apartment and continually falls down.

The vet isn't going to be open until Monday, if he can even do anything about this, so all I can think to do is give Pudgie some extra Bactrim the vet gave me a while back, and give him vitamins in his water. I read some about vertigo in birds but there seem to be a lot of causes. This is an interesting development because during his previous illnesses, I definitely noticed him falling off the perch a lot. I wonder if this vertigo thing just wasn't severe enough to notice yet?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Do not try to self-medicate your budgie by giving him extra Bactrim.

You need to keep Pudgie separated permanently from Violet for his safety.

At this time he needs to be put in a small hospital cage and the bottom should be padded with a soft towel or layers of paper towels to cushion him if he falls.

The symptoms of Ataxia you are referring to may be neurological or due to an inner ear infection. 
You need to take Pudgie to an emergency vet now or to your regular Avian Vet as soon as the clinic opens on Tuesday.*


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Thanks Deborah. I apologize this thread has gone on for a while. You guys have provided invaluable feedback that has certainly helped Pudgie with his quality of life.

I took Pudgie to the vet on Tuesday and he thinks it's yet another bacterial infection. So Pudgie is [officially] back on Bactrim. I am really worried about his quality of life though. I hate seeing the poor guy suffer. It's been like 5 days and he's in rough shape, even if slightly improved. I'll follow up with the vet today, but if anyone has feedback here is the timeline since he got sick:

- 3 year old male budgie with a history of frequent bacterial infections.
- Illness started 5 days ago. Weight loss from 38 grams to 30 at some point.
- Day 1: Balance issues, falling off perch, odd behavior.
- Day 2: Violent thrashing with wings, complete loss of balance, running around in circles. Bactrim started.
- Day 3: Extreme lethargy, shivering, major balance issues, frequent thrashing, sneezing, lack of appetite, puffy swollen eyes.
- Day 4: Extreme lethargy, shivering, major balance issues, frequent thrashing, sneezing, puffy swollen eyes, muscle tensing, beak clamped shut, frequent whimpering noises. Appetite good but has a very hard time eating.
- Day 5: Extreme lethargy, shivering, major balance issues, rare thrashing, sneezing, puffy swollen eyes, muscle tensing, beak clamped shut, rare whimpering noises. Appetite good but has a very hard time eating.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*As hard as it may be, if Pudgie were my budgie I'd be thinking very hard about his quality of life at this point in time. 
It's obvious that his immune system is severely compromised and he is suffering.

As difficult as it is, it may be time to consider allowing the vet to help Pudgie move on in his journey to the Rainbow Bridge.

I certainly know how hard it is -- I've had to let many of my beloved pets go over the years.

However, I truly believe it is the greatest act of selfless love one can give. 
When a pet has reached the point where it is in constant pain and the quality of life is never going to improve, it is cruel to allow it to continue to suffer.

My thoughts and prayers are with you during this very difficult time.*


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Thanks for your thoughts, and I completely agree, but I don't have the experience to know if he can come out of this. The last time Pudgie got sick I thought he was dead for sure, you guys saw the pics, he was barely moving, but he recovered almost completely and was happily living for months longer before this happened.

I will talk to the vet today, but here is a video of his current state if you want to make a judgement yourself. I hope nobody takes offense, I simply am not experienced enough with budgies to know anything about how bad his condition is.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Only you and your vet can make the decision on what is best for Pudgie. 
Given what I see in the video, I would not let him continue to suffer in his current state of distress.

Blessings*


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

I’m so sorry this is sill happening. But I agree with Deborah. In the current state Pudgie is in, he is suffering and has a poor quality of life. Obviously, it’s your decision to let him go naturally, or help him out of his misery. As difficult as it is, it is really the best decision once we know there is no reversing the condition. :hug:


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

So sorry to see this, I agree with FaeryBee and RavensGryf and we all know what a difficult decision you are facing. Blessings to all of you.:hug:


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## Flagg (Feb 4, 2019)

Thanks for the candid thoughts guys. I ended up visiting another vet for a second opinion, and he concurred with what you said. Pudgie is now at peace. It was a lot harder of a decision than I thought, but seeing him suffer was brutal, and I wish he didn't have to go through that for 4+ days. The poor guy didn't deserve it, but that's life sometimes.

After Pudgie got sick the last time back in February, after talking with you, I realized any time I had left with him was very precious. We had 3 more months of time to spend together before this latest sickness. If it wasn't for you guys I wouldn't have taken his original poor feathers condition seriously and subsequently gone /back/ to the vet multiple times to get him on meds that worked! So thanks, you are all amazing people! I will post in the rainbow section about Pudgie.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm glad to hear that Pudgie is now at the Rainbow Bridge and no longer in pain and suffering. :hug:

This thread is now closed.*


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