# Help bonding with already bonded pair



## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

I am a budgie newbie. I recently got two budgies from a friend who owns a pet store. They came from a guy who was moving and couldn’t keep them. He thinks they were 8 months when they came to him. When the guy brought them in he didn’t know to cover their cage. They were terrified. The female so much so she hurt herself so badly her wings were bloody. The other is a male, Roger, and seems more dominate of the two. Not as scared as the female, Bluebell. I’ve been researching how to tame them and get them to trust me. I’ve been taking baby steps with them because they seem so timid. I’m not sure where they came from before the first owner had them. I have them in a room that we all go in frequently, it’s the center of our home, the cage is back against a wall. It’s really big for the two of them I made sure of that. I wanted them to have a lot of space. They have toys and things to play with. I talk to them softly to get used to my voice. Then started showing them my hand. And hand feeding them milet. But they are still so skittish and they just don’t seem to want to bond with me. I don’t know what else to do. Can I bond with a pair that is already bonded? Maybe that’s the issue. I’m not sure. It’s been since October since we got them and I thought I would have made more progress by now. I love these birdies and just want them to feel safe and happy. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

The short answer is “yes, you can.”
It sounds like you are doing things right and taking it slowly. 
If one of them becomes braver than the other, then that’s the one that you focus on for interactions. The other will see that you aren’t harming his/her friend and want to get in on the action (especially if there is millet involved).

As things progress and they are comfortable enough with you to sit on your hand or shoulder, you can try individual quick training sessions. Just you and one of them in a new room, focusing on basics like target or step up training. It’s mentally stimulating for them and it gives them a chance ti bond with you individually. Then, see where that goes


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## ChickWas (May 6, 2021)

Two months is very little in budgie time. It took 6-8 months for me to bond with my budgie after I had to forcefully medicate her by grabbing hold of her (she was fully 100% tame before this ordeal, and absolutely adored me, and I destroyed it completely with the medicating). Those months were slow progress, and it didn't happen suddenly. It was extremely gradual. She went from being terrified of my hands and not wanting anything to do with me, to slowly starting to open up. This from a bird I'd raised since childhood and previously loved spending time with me and cuddling.

I don't think it's impossible to earn the trust of already bonded budgies, it just takes a very long time. Are you able to take a picture of them with their current setup (cage and surrounding area)? Also, if you spend a lot of time in a particular room, it might help putting them in it with you. I spend so much time at the computer, so I have mine in the computer room. If you have them in the living room, it will take time for them to become acclimated to all the different sounds and activities your family does. My budgies have finally started to relax when I watch TV in front of them, but sudden noise changes or heartrate monitors and ambulances send them scurrying behind my neck or flying into the cage. So if the central room you have them in has a lot of stimuli, it might take them a good long while to slowly process everything and relax to the point where they'll able to focus on trusting you.

Other than that, you're doing everything right. Gentle progress, introducing yourself to them slowly, letting them realise you're a source of goodness (aka treats). I guarantee that eventually, you will earn their trust, and it will be _so _worth it.


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

srirachaseahawk said:


> The short answer is “yes, you can.”
> It sounds like you are doing things right and taking it slowly.
> If one of them becomes braver than the other, then that’s the one that you focus on for interactions. The other will see that you aren’t harming his/her friend and want to get in on the action (especially if there is millet involved).
> 
> As things progress and they are comfortable enough with you to sit on your hand or shoulder, you can try individual quick training sessions. Just you and one of them in a new room, focusing on basics like target or step up training. It’s mentally stimulating for them and it gives them a chance ti bond with you individually. Then, see where that goes


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

Thank you so much!💕


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

ChickWas said:


> Two months is very little in budgie time. It took 6-8 months for me to bond with my budgie after I had to forcefully medicate her by grabbing hold of her (she was fully 100% tame before this ordeal, and absolutely adored me, and I destroyed it completely with the medicating). Those months were slow progress, and it didn't happen suddenly. It was extremely gradual. She went from being terrified of my hands and not wanting anything to do with me, to slowly starting to open up. This from a bird I'd raised since childhood and previously loved spending time with me and cuddling.
> 
> I don't think it's impossible to earn the trust of already bonded budgies, it just takes a very long time. Are you able to take a picture of them with their current setup (cage and surrounding area)? Also, if you spend a lot of time in a particular room, it might help putting them in it with you. I spend so much time at the computer, so I have mine in the computer room. If you have them in the living room, it will take time for them to become acclimated to all the different sounds and activities your family does. My budgies have finally started to relax when I watch TV in front of them, but sudden noise changes or heartrate monitors and ambulances send them scurrying behind my neck or flying into the cage. So if the central room you have them in has a lot of stimuli, it might take them a good long while to slowly process everything and relax to the point where they'll able to focus on trusting you.
> 
> Other than that, you're doing everything right. Gentle progress, introducing yourself to them slowly, letting them realise you're a source of goodness (aka treats). I guarantee that eventually, you will earn their trust, and it will be _so _worth it.


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)




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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

Cute!
But a few pieces of advice 


This cage is too small for two budgies. Ideally you want something at least double this size, and wider is better than taller since they fly horizontally.
Love the natural wood toys, but do the same for the main perches. Those smooth cylinders that come with most cages are not good for their feet.
What all are you feeding them beyond the seed that's in that bowl? The vast majority of their diet should be fresh veggies and pellets (if they are used to a seed only diet, the conversion process takes some time; but it's well-worth it for their health). Healthy budgies are happy budgies, happy budgies are ones that more readily bond with their humans


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Please remove the sandpaper perch cover that looks to be on the top perch, it can cause damage to the bottom of the feet. Do they get any out of the cage time?


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

Thank you so much! I feel so much better now! I’ve been so worried over them I can’t even tell you. But now that you talked about the room, I did have to move their cage to the other side of the living room because of the Christmas tree. And they are more in the middle of the flow of traffic now. They are more skittish now then before so I’m thinking they don’t like where I had to move them. I’m going to move them back once the tree gets taken down. Maybe it’s not me but the new location?

I’ve been trying to get them to eat fruit and veggies like crazy that’s what the silver dish on the right side of the cage is for, but they refuse to eat it! I know they they are supposed to eat more of the fruits and veggies but they only want to eat the vitamin fortified stuff they ate before 😕 I’m supposed to chop the fruit and veggies up small right? I thought maybe they it was because I was chopping it up that they weren’t eating it? How do you get them to eat it? It’s another problem I’m having!


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

You want way more veggies than fruit, fruit is a "once a week as a treat" kind of thing.

I would chop them pretty good with a slap-chop or similar. 
I've seen a few things that make people successful:

Clip things like leafy greens and broccoli to the sides of the cage for them to pick at.
Sprinkle some seeds on it that they like to get them used to it
Put some leafy greens in a bowl of shallow water. They may play in the water and nibble while they do it.


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

Cody said:


> Please remove the sandpaper perch cover that looks to be on the top perch, it can cause damage to the bottom of the feet. Do they get any out of the cage time?


Oh dear! I was told it helped with their nails that’s why I have it I never would have gotten it if I had know it would cause them harm. And yes I did try out of cage time. It was a disaster! The female as I said is terrified and very much more skittish compared to my male. And I don’t have a safe room to close them in to let them fly around. So when I let them out I couldn’t get her back in the cage for a very long time and I think I scared her to death because I had to grab her once so she would hurt herself and she got away from me. I finally got her to perch on a stick and put her back in that way. But ever since I have been to afraid to let them out until I have them more used to my and my hands so I can get them back in the cage safely. That’s what a lot of my research has told me. And not to enclose them in a room that you can’t make safe for them, which I can’t because I have 3 kids also. I understand the cage size. The wider the better. And some people have some really nice ones that their birds can fly around in. But not everyone can get those big ones.

My goal is to get them comfortable with me so I can let them in and out and interact with them outside of their cage in a personal way. So they can get exercise and be a part of our family because I know they are very social and can become close like that. Where I can get them on my shoulder and stuff. But I feel like they were really traumatized by pervious owner, they just seem much more scared then normal from what I’ve seen and heard from others.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
*Locating an Avian Veterinarian*

*You definitely need a larger cage for your budgies. What are their names?
The very minimum size cage for two budgies would be 30" Long x 18" Wide x 18" High.
BIGGER would be better. You must ensure the spacing between the bars is no more than 1/2".

Taming and Bonding is all about helping your budgie learn to trust you and it takes a great deal of time and patience on your part.
You should never grab your budgies or force them to be touched.

To bond with your budgie, you need to build their trust in you.
They will have to learn over time that you will not hurt them, grab them and try to force them to allow you to hold them.

To build your birds’ trust, sit by their cage and read, talk or sing quietly to them for a period of at least 10-15 minutes, 3 or 4 times day. After about a week, rest your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to them so they will learn that your hand is safe and will not hurt them. 

After a week of resting your hand on the outside of the cage, rest your hand inside the cage when you talk.Don’t make sudden moves, don’t try to touch them.
Let their get used to the idea that the hand is now in their safe place and not harming them.

After 2 weeks, begin moving your hand slowly toward your bird. If they become agitated, stop moving your hand and just hold very still until they calm down. When they are comfortable with your hand near them, you can offer them a bit of millet or a few seeds.

Always work at your birds’ pace.
Move slowly and talk reassuringly and calmly to their whenever you interact with them.*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*It can take several weeks (or even months) for budgies to decide to try a new food.
Fruit is high in sugar content so vegetables are actually healthier for your budgies with fruits given only occasionally (once or twice a week)
You will find many different tips with regard to presenting vegetables and encouraging your budgies to try new foods in the Diet and Nutrition section of the forum.
The first vegetable which my budgies that had not been weaned to vegetables tried (and loved) was sweet corn kernels sprinkled with a teeny bit of garlic powder (NOT salt).

Budgies seem to love "spicy" tastes. 
They also adored fresh basil, cilantro, dill, chickweed, zucchini and red pepper.

Using Apple Cider Vinegar (with the mother) 
https://www.talkbudgies.com/threads/apple-cider-vinegar.103936/

When I introduced pellets to my budgie, my Avian Vet recommended using Harrison's High Potency Mash and sprinkling it on the budgie's seed mix every day. 

This way, when the budgie hulls the seed it tastes[the pellet mash and ingests bits of it as well.
This helps the budgie identify the taste as a food source. 
It worked for my all of budgies and lovebirds

Many members seem to find the easiest pellets to use for introducing pellets to their budgies to be the CANARY sized (XS) Zupreem fruity pellets.
Most budgies like the taste and the "Canary" sized pellets are tiny enough for them to easily eat them.
Once budgies become accustomed to the Fruity Pellets, introducing the smallest "natural" pellets is then an easy step.

Other than when I was using the Harrison's mash, I've never mixed my birds' pellets and seed together.
My birds have Zupreem Fruity Pellets, RoudyBush Mini Natural Pellets, Dried Herb Salad and Miracle Meal available at all times.

Their seed is rationed to approximately 1 ½ to 2 teaspoons of seed per budgie each day.
I give them seed first thing in the morning right after putting clean packing paper on the bottom grate of the cages.
I sprinkle their morning ration on the paper so they can forage for the seeds.
I then do the same thing in the evenings (after replacing the soiled paper with clean) and again allow them to forage for their seed.
With a healthy diet, you should not need any vitamins or supplements other than Vitamin D3 which is used for birds who get limited direct sunlight.

You can also simply ration the budgie(s) food into morning and afternoon portions utilizing the food dish(es).
Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.*
*Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
(Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)*

*These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*

*SITE GUIDELINES*
*Posting on the Forums*
*Let's Talk Budgies!*
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*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*
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*Resource Directory*


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## Kellyfrantz78 (Dec 3, 2021)

I appreciate your advice. I have actually tried and am practicing all the things you mentioned in the way to get the budgies to bond with you starting by being outside of cage only, talking softly and I actually do sing to them because I do that daily anyway while I clean. And putting my hand on the cage. Then introducing milet. And still am finding, because I’m at around them daily, that they are unwilling to bond. AND I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO GRAB THEM OR FORCED THEM TO BE TOUCHED, the instance I mentioned was for her safety, because I have been actually doing a lot of research on my own and was hoping this forum could offer some advice I hadn’t already read or heard from my friend. I was afraid it was because they were already a bonded pair that I was having such difficulty. I have been in contact with my vet and even the owner of the pet store I am friends with whom I got these birds from on how to care for them as well so I don’t appreciate you assuming I’m not caring for them as best as I can or as I’ve already been told. Just was hoping for some additional help. A bigger size cage will not work in my home and was the biggest I was able to find at my local store. You should have seen the cage the guy that had these beautiful birds in before I rescued them, it was horrible! I am caring for them the best I can and will love them because they deserve it and I grew up with birds so I’m excited to be a bird owner again.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*No one assumed you are not caring for your budgies as best you can. 
When I, and the other Talk Budgies staff, respond to members, we do so realizing that not only that member but many others, including guests to the forum are reading the responses posted on the threads.

Our goal is to ensure everyone reading the various threads throughout the forums learns as much as possible about the best practices in caring for their birds.

Perhaps once you review our Site Guidelines, the way we run the forum will become more understandable to you and you will not be offended by the responses you receive from us.

Best wishes!*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

In my experience a bird will always be another birds best friend over a human, there may be exceptions but not for me. None of my current birds are what you could consider tame to the point of choosing me over a bird buddy, I can get them to step up onto a rope perch when outside of their cages but never will they sit on me, I just accept that and I don't push the issue, I just let them enjoy their life interacting as they choose. Several years ago I had a pair that was very tame, and if I was in the room they were sitting on me, I cannot take credit for taming them, they were rehomed to me and already tame, it was really nice.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello there and welcome to the forums!

You've been given great advice and resources above. It sounds like you're doing all you can to try and make your little ones happy and healthy! 💛 

Of course, when a member joins the forums we have no way of knowing this so we ensure to always provide the necessary information so that a member can either learn or so that people reading the thread are able to do so. 

If you got your budgies "recently" then I just think they need more time. It's hard for two birds to want to look to include humans in their flock to begin with, and it seems that they came from a situation where they were not well kept as well, which certainly makes it even harder. Therefore you're doing everything right, but I think they need more time. Continue to do what you're doing; talking to them softly, spending time with them, etc. to make sure they know you're there and want to be with them. Over time they will become more comfortable with you. It's true that perhaps they will not necessarily want to "bond" in the sense of coming to you willingly, etc. It's also just as likely that they will and will start opening up within the next few weeks or months. The important thing is to just let them decide which way to go on their own while providing the environment that would best encourage them to bond with you. 

Best of luck with your budgies! Have a look at the links above to ensure you're up to date on everything, and if you have any questions after doing so, feel free to ask as we'd love to help. 

Hope to see you around! 👋


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