# New Budgies



## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

Hi everyone!
I'm looking to add budgies to our home after several weeks of research on the topic.

I believe that I have all the bases covered with things like: food, cage size, perches, toys, veterinarians, cleaning, training and taming. 
*But*, I'm still not 100% sure about how many budgies to get from the off.

Now, I've found a local breeder who appears to be highly reputable (based on their site, their answers to my questions and their online reviews). They offer hand-fed babies that are available after they have been properly weened. Since they are hand-fed/raised, they should be more social and easier to bond with (at least as far as I can tell).

I know that I want two budgies, both male. My spouse and I both work and our kids go to school. 
I do work from home, but that isn't a blank pass to spend a ton of time every day interacting with the bird 

I _do _plan to interact/bond with them for a couple of hours every single day as well as letting them have flight time in the home (still figuring out the best way to do this with a few cats, but the layout of our home should allow for this). 

For their overall happiness, I know that two is the right approach.
My concern is the timing. 

Is it better to bring home one first, spend a few months bonding with it and then add a second? 
Or is it fine to bring them both home at the same time and work with them from there?

If I brought two home at once, they will both be hand-raised and familiar with each other (likely even from the same clutch), so it would minimize any issues with fighting/jealousy that comes with adding a new member to the flock.

The breeder insists that since her birds are so well socialized that it's better to come home with two if that's my eventual plan. She thinks that I won't have any trouble in bonding with two since they are already socialized and that I may invite different issues by adding a bird later after a single one is already bonded to me.

Most of the research on the Internet that I have come across so far seems to indicate that taming/bonding one at a time is the way to go. But, these typically don't account for the fact that these birds would be hand-raised together already. 

I should also be clear on what my expectations are when I say "human bonding".
I would like my birds to obviously not fear anyone in the household. I'd like them to step-up onto my finger, appreciate the occasional head scratch, enjoy perching on my shoulder for a time and be able to be trained for recall.
I would also enjoy it if they did some human mimicry, since it's incredibly adorable.

I'm not expecting a cockatiel who will basically act like a flying cat and always want attention 
I have some cats already, so I've got the "fuzzy cuddle animal" covered. 

I don't want them to be so bonded with each other that they basically ignore the humans in the household. 
I don't want feathered, noisy furniture that I have to clean-up after...

It also seems like if I have two, they will never mimic human sounds? That's discouraging, but obviously not a reason to just get the one and then not be able to spend the 3-4 hours a day with it that it needs...but that's a different question.

It's really just a matter of timing. Two makes the most sense for our family and our schedule. It's just down to:
If they are hand-raised and socialized already, is getting two at the same time fine from a human bonding perspective? Or should I bite-the-bullet and just get one first...bond with him...and then go through the steps to properly add a second one? (the second one would be from the same breeder and likewise be hand-fed/raised).

Sorry for how long-winded this is  
I just want to make the best choice.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Every bird is an individual and even though you are getting the bird(s) from a breeder there is no guarantee that the bird will eventually conform to your expectations. Talk is cheap, so if you have the option of visiting the breeder and seeing how the birds are raised and cared for that would be a good thing to do, and meet the chicks and see just how tame they are. Just because a bird is hand fed does not make it tame unless the breeder has gone the extra mile to socialize the chicks. How old are the chicks when the breeder is offering them for sale? A bird will always be another birds buddy so it might be best to start with one and see how it goes with the taming and bonding. It can take quite a bit of time to accomplish, it is not something that takes a few weeks, more like months. If it were not for the fact that you want the birds tamed and bonded to you I would say start with 2 so they have each other as company but it may be harder and take longer to tame them.


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

Cody said:


> Every bird is an individual and even though you are getting the bird(s) from a breeder there is no guarantee that the bird will eventually conform to your expectations. Talk is cheap, so if you have the option of visiting the breeder and seeing how the birds are raised and cared for that would be a good thing to do, and meet the chicks and see just how tame they are. Just because a bird is hand fed does not make it tame unless the breeder has gone the extra mile to socialize the chicks. How old are the chicks when the breeder is offering them for sale? A bird will always be another birds buddy so it might be best to start with one and see how it goes with the taming and bonding. It can take quite a bit of time to accomplish, it is not something that takes a few weeks, more like months. If it were not for the fact that you want the birds tamed and bonded to you I would say start with 2 so they have each other as company but it may be harder and take longer to tame them.


Thanks for the reply!
They indicate that they socialize the birds as well, and provide live camera feeds to the aviary to see how they interact with the different chicks. 
They put them up for sale a couple weeks after the weening is complete, so I’m guessing around the 2 month old mark.

I love the idea of two, but I also think that it may be best to start with one and take it slow. Develop the bond over a few more tha and make sure that everyone else in the house has time to acclimate. 
As stated above, we do have cats and I want to make sure that everyone in the household can properly settle in..


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*It's fine to get one budgie to start with. 
You can tame/bond with that bird and then in about 6 months time decide if you are ready to add a second budgie to your household.
That would be my recommendation. Keep in mind there is no guarantee that two budgies are going to get along, but if you get two males 6 months apart, chances are good they will do fine together.

Since you have cats, PLEASE be sure that you keep the budgie(s) cage in a room where the cats will never have access.
*
*Cats and Dogs are Predators - Birds are Prey*


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

FaeryBee said:


> *It's fine to get one budgie to start with.
> You can tame/bond with that bird and then in about 6 months time decide if you are ready to add a second budgie to your household.
> That would be my recommendation. Keep in mind there is no guarantee that two budgies are going to get along, but if you get two males 6 months apart, chances are good they will do fine together.
> 
> ...


100% transparency, that I don’t think keeping the cats and the cage separated is not feasible. The layout of our house doesn’t really afford that option. 
In order for the bird to hear/see the family, it would have to be in a common area. Now, the spot where the cage is going is not near any furniture and it would be secured as best possible to the stand and against the wall so that it couldn’t tip. I would also provide a nesting box so that the bird could have an enclosed place to retreat if he get the need.
Our cats are on the older side and typically spend their days thinking that it’s the night. But, I 100% get that there is no way to predict on this. We would do our best to dissuade the cats from being too near the cage and the bird would never be “out” in a cats presence without supervision (cats will just get sent to a bedroom, or vice versa, for flight time). 
Is it perfect? No. 
Do I think that we can still make a good home for a budgie if we take the right precautions? I do!
I know that this is a polarizing topic, but I think that my family and I can make a good go of it.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Please do NOT put a nesting box in the bird's cage. The only time budgies should ever be provided with a nest box is when it a breeding pair in an individual breeding cage.
It will definitely be necessary for the birds to be in a bird-safe room without the cats present any time the budgies are out of the cage.
As long as you are aware of the risks and are taking the necessary precautions you can give your budgie(s) a good life.
Since you will have the cage in a common room and the cats will be allowed in that room, then the Prevue Hendryx F050 is not a good option. The other cage with the higher stand is a better choice.*


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

@FaeryBee One quick question. I updated the breeder with a he info that I just wanted to start with one bird so that I could focus on bonding, training, talking, etc.
They were entirely willing and understanding, but added this one bit that I’m just not sure about:
“I do want to clarify the one common misconception in your email. Having one bird will not actually have them pick up phrases better, easier or faster. In fact, it's the opposite. Having two males will give them the opportunity to babble to each other, especially when their human isn't around, and thus they actually start talking earlier and more clearly”

They also added that there is no real reason to do one bird at a time since bonding with birds who are already flocked together is no harder than singles.
They do hand raise and feed their birds, so I know that they are very well socialized with humans with a lot of hand time from a very early age…but I’m not the same human that they are used to 
All of this seems to contradict all of the info that I’ve found online thus far…? 
I want two, but I want them to be bonded with me (and each other) and have a good shot at picking up human speech.

there’s the obvious bias of them being in the position to recommend selling more that I’m keenly aware of, which is why Iam bringing this to your fine flock for guidance


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the forums!

Cody and FaeryBee have given you excellent advice and I agree with them totally. As for what the breeder told you, I can say that they're not technically wrong, there's just a lot of caveats. Common to what a lot of people think about budgies, their personalities and dispositions play quite a large role in whether or not they talk, bond with humans, want to be sociable, etc. Therefore budgies that would normally want to learn human words or interact with people won't necessarily _not_ want to if they're together with another budgie, it's just that the environment (i.e with other birds) will be less favorable to encourage them to do so. In other words, if you happen to end up with two budgies who both are outgoing with humans and are curious about what's around them, especially if they've been encouraged to do so from an early age, they very well may both bond with you and pick up some mimicry, etc. However, even birds encouraged to do so from an early age (read: hand raised budgies) _do not necessarily have the predisposition to do so_, which means that even birds who are comfortable with humans may naturally gravitate towards other birds or be more introverted to the point where getting two birds at the same time would remove any pressure on them to interact with humans or learn from them since there's another bird around. So the best you can do as a hopeful bird owner is consider the probabilities relative to the environment you can provide (i.e how much time you're wanting to spend with them; two birds bought together, even if they both would eventually enjoy being bonded with/spending time with humans would likely need extensive human interaction so you become integrated into their "flock") and meet the birds if possible to get an idea of their personality traits.

Sorry about the huge paragraph! There's just no right or wrong answer because what may be true for one bird may not for another. Let us know how it goes 

Meanwhile, you’ve come to a great place to learn even more about the best of budgie care practices! Please be sure to have a look around the forums’ many budgie articles and “stickies” to ensure you’re up to date on everything. If you have questions after doing so, please be sure to ask as we’d love to help.

Cheers! 👋


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

StarlingWings said:


> Hello and welcome to the forums!
> 
> Cody and FaeryBee have given you excellent advice and I agree with them totally. As for what the breeder told you, I can say that they're not technically wrong, there's just a lot of caveats. Common to what a lot of people think about budgies, their personalities and dispositions play quite a large role in whether or not they talk, bond with humans, want to be sociable, etc. Therefore budgies that would normally want to learn human words or interact with people won't necessarily _not_ want to if they're together with another budgie, it's just that the environment (i.e with other birds) will be less favorable to encourage them to do so. In other words, if you happen to end up with two budgies who both are outgoing with humans and are curious about what's around them, especially if they've been encouraged to do so from an early age, they very well may both bond with you and pick up some mimicry, etc. However, even birds encouraged to do so from an early age (read: hand raised budgies) _do not necessarily have the predisposition to do so_, which means that even birds who are comfortable with humans may naturally gravitate towards other birds or be more introverted to the point where getting two birds at the same time would remove any pressure on them to interact with humans or learn from them since there's another bird around. So the best you can do as a hopeful bird owner is consider the probabilities relative to the environment you can provide (i.e how much time you're wanting to spend with them; two birds bought together, even if they both would eventually enjoy being bonded with/spending time with humans would likely need extensive human interaction so you become integrated into their "flock") and meet the birds if possible to get an idea of their personality traits.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!
"The Internet" seems to have a 70/30 split on this topic, which may be because of exactly what you're talking about...every bird is unique .

I've asked the breeder about being able to meet the birds, but they say that they are a closed aviary in accordance with some of the NCS guidelines and that they do not want to introduce any of their birds to outside germs. I plan on having a call with them later this week so we can discuss details any my questions/concerns.

Sorry to overload everyone and waffle back-and-forth... 

This being said, here are some encouraging notes from their site:

Our Hand-Fed babies are pulled from their parents at 14 days old (2 weeks) and we assume 100% of their care and feeding from that point on.
We begin handling every Baby daily, and as early as 1 week old to ensure they associate humans as friends early on. We are completely hands-on from the moment each Baby hatches, resulting in fairly relaxed parents, and easygoing babies from Day 1. Each baby is given 1 supplemental feeding daily starting at 2 weeks old, to get them familiar with taking food from people, and help make the transition to formula much easier should we need to pull the baby for hand feeding. Babies that are very small may receive additional feedings as needed to help them catch up to their siblings.
We don't just raise your Baby. We also teach them how to become a loving companion! Once Baby is eating pretty well on their own, has begun rejecting feedings, Baby is moved from the their parents to our Pre-K Cage for daytime play. This short cage has multiple perches, toys, and new things to learn and explore! Here Baby learns how to move from perch to perch, play with toys, forage and explore, find food and water on their own, and step up when asked. The Pre-K Cage is set up with no floor grate, and only low perches. Once they master moving around the Pre-K cage and are taking only 1 feed from their parents or us, they are moved to the Kinder Cage. The Kinder Cage has higher perches, ladders, swings, and other fun things to explore! This transition into a cage from their parents usually happens around the time Baby is 5 to 6 weeks old, but may vary based on each Baby's needs. 
our Baby will not go Home until he or she is eating completely, and confidently on their own; drinking ample water on their own, and is no longer crying or begging for formula feedings or feedings from parents. Nothing upsets us more than seeing online postings of confused new families wondering why their new baby won't stop crying. No baby will go home prior to 8 weeks of age.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I hate that they are pulling their chicks at 2 weeks. It is my firm belief that budgies are much better off being co-parented.
Having the chicks with the Father gives them the way they learn to "be birds"
Planned Co-Parenting in Raising Tame Chicks

Aside from that, the breeder looks as if they are doing everything well.

Each budgie is definitely unique and not all budgies will learn to talk.
My beautiful budgie Skipper (the sky blue spangle in my signature picture) used to talk up a storn.
When I brought in Scooter, Skipper continued to talk but Scooter never did.
However, when I then added additional budgies, Skipper decided he no longer needed to "talk"/mimic human speech and went back to speaking only "Budgie"*


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

FaeryBee said:


> *I hate that they are pulling their chicks at 2 weeks. It is my firm belief that budgies are much better off being co-parented.
> Having the chicks with the Father gives them the way they learn to "be birds"
> Planned Co-Parenting in Raising Tame Chicks
> 
> ...


They do offer a co-parenting option as well, something for me to consider (I have a call with them tomorrow to discuss the 1 v 2 topic, so I can get into this as well).

“Co-Parented babies stay with their parents for feeding and cleaning, building strong immunities, and a confident demeanor. We handle, play, snuggle, and start training Baby as they grow. Co-Parented kids are robust, strong minded and independent, while still enjoying their people. Co-Parented babies also often wean earlier than Hand-Fed kids. If no preference is chosen, your Baby will be Co-Parented.

Hand-Fed kids are 100% human dependent. We pull Baby between 2-3 weeks old and completely take over feeding and care. Hand-Fed babies are kept in the brooder and are fed on a schedule. This process takes every moment of our time, so there is a slight increase in their pricing. Hand-Fed kids may take longer to wean, but they do make the sweetest, friendliest babies.”


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I would definitely go with the co-parenting option if it were me. I'm glad they give prospective owners a choice!*


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

Sounds good!


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Super exciting!! 
I'll be looking forward to your updates as time progresses. 💜 💜 *


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