# Megabacteria Epidemic



## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

Hey everyone. I have some really unfortunate news. Earlier today I took Luna and Lily to the vet because there was undigested food in their droppings. The vet took a fecal sample and diagnosed them with avian gastric yeast. Which means I have to medicate them and all of that fun stuff.

Since four of the other birds came from the same Petco and then Molly and Arthur have been in close contact with them, I am getting them tested as well just to make extra sure that nothing is going on. 

I know I have seen undigested seed in Molly and Arthur's poop, but I just assumed they were having an adverse reaction to me putting apple cider vinegar in their water. Getting them tested is for my piece of mind and their benefit because if they are infected, then it can be taken care of early.

I have a few questions about megabacteria for you guys. Do you know the survival rate for budgies affected with AGY? The vet said that the medicine works really well, but there are cases in which it doesn't. She said it always helps to catch it early, though.

Also, I know that the bacteria is transmitted through fecal matter. Is there anything special that I have to do to make sure that they aren't re-infected? Things like constantly sanitizing everything in their cage. Or does the bacteria die after being outside the body for a period of time and I don't have to get as aggressive with sanitization.

Thanks in advance for your advice. And I honestly want to cry right now. This is just really stressful and overwhelming.

I am having such bad luck with my birds. First Arthur breaks his leg, Ginny breaks a blood feather, and now there is avian gastric yeast in my flock. Bad things tend to happen in threes, so I'm hopeful that nothing else will happen.

I would also like to say that everyone should totally listen to the stickies on this thread about not buying from big box pet stores and to instead go to a breeder. I kind of shrugged off the advice and now I am really regretting it. If I could go back in time and slap myself in the face, I totally would.

EDIT: Does anyone know how transmittable it is from birds to other species? I have a cat and a dog as well so it is possible that they will get it? Do I have to worry about getting it? This is the stuff I should have asked the vet, but it completely skipped my mind in the stress of the moment.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Alyssa, 

I'm so sorry to hear about this  

I know that with the great care you give the flock, however, I'm sure they'll all pull through in great shape :hug:

ACV will help them a lot, so don't stop putting it in their water. 

Other than keeping everything clean (nothing extreme, just change the cage papers once or twice a day and wiping down the cage with undiluted vinegar occasionally), I really don't have any advice for you. 

However, if anyone on the forums knows anything about Megabac, it's Cathy. Her darling boy Budget has it and thus she is very experienced at ways to treat it. 

I will flag this post for her to see 

Don't be afraid to cry a little--I probably would. Your flock is so special and important to you and it must be so hard knowing this. But stay positive, because you're the best mum ever to them and your attentiveness and care is what has brought them this far :clap:

Not many can say they are truly great budgie owners and you surely are one of them. Karma for paying so much attention to your flock's needs! :wave:


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## Jo Ann (Sep 3, 2011)

*Megabas*

Relax. Just take reasonable care as so far there is no cross species issues.
Budgies eat each others droppings and this is a major way to transmit Mega or AGY. There are several TB members who have successfully brought their flock thru With Amphoteracian B or Sodium Benzoate. The latter is far less expensive.
With our vet we combine both meds. A seriously ill bird goes on Ampho B and the rest of the flock has a one month run of Sodium Benzoate in drinking water in order to chase the organisms away. Do a spring cleaning around the cage area-windows blinds, closets bath. Attack and disinfect whereever you find any type of fungus or mold. Dark-damp -moist-hidden-areas- and yes sterilize food dishes, Run non metal toys etc through the microwave/ Throw away any cuttlebone or mineral block and start brand new. Scrub the cage with White vinegar or depending how bad use bleach the first time and then go to white vinegar and or use F10 or similar suggested by your vet. 
Both Pretty Boy and Jonah have successfully dealt with AGY in their flock Chat with them for pointers. Read all of the Stickys About this issue and related. One thing to remember is that AGY is treated differently than Bacterial illnesses. And sometimes The AGY and bacteria will team up and attack your birds immune system. Good food , super clean cage, avoid mold around the house Alternate ACV and Sodium benzoate in drinking water. are major preventative.

Also Weigh and record weight of each bird weekly or more often if necessary. Any major change up or down is a sign to look for illness. A bird often becomes very thin or "light" With AGY and this weakens the immune system. A bird must eat regularly to live to keep its internal motor/generator going. A weak bird that fulffs and does not eat gets cold a cold bird will often pass into shock. Keep heat available for birds with AGY. We use ceramic heat only bulbs with reflectors. Turn them off if birds are in free flight. Birds can burn their feet on the reflector if they land on it .
We also use Pet snuggle heat discs sold on amazon for travel and for people toes at night in winter. Socks with plastic water bottles or dry seeds make easy free emergency heat sources. Even laying on your chest wrapped in a warm cloth. Especially if you have a strong bond with your bird.

Watch for weight change, abnormal droppings, refusal to eat fluff on bottom of the cage are major signs to see avian vet asap!! The longer the fungus goes untreated the less likely your bird will recover. One can not say enough about watching weight and droppings for early diagnosis of many illnesses in birds. Weather change in your area can harbor the right conditions for AGY -dark-cool- damp conditions.

A bird who starts to eat, gain weight, and increase activity is winning the battle against AGY. Prayers for recovery of your flock . Please let us know how things are going. Blessings, Jo Ann:Love birds::Love birds:
.


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm so sorry.you got the best advice from our dear friends here.i am sure that recommendation will help them recover soon.we're here for you.sending healing prayers.blessings and keep us posted.its gonna be ok.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Alyssa,

I'm so sorry to hear your little ones are suffering from AGY. :hug:

Hopefully some of the information in these links will be of help to you.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-bud...57-budgerigar-disease-prevention-program.html

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/314538-megabacteria-budgerigars.html

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/333842-avian-gastric-yeast.html*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear this, I know how stressful it is to have to deal with multiple medical issues at the same time but they can all pull through. Hang in there you're doing great.:hug:


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

Sorry to hear that you have to deal with this, but it can as JoAnn said be treated and treated effectively. Between JoAnn's advice and the link's Deborah has posted, you will have what you need to help your flock successfully recover, and that is... information. Avoid any source of sugar in their diet, natural or otherwise, as it will feed the AGY. My bird's were put on a 30 day sodium benzoate in the water regimen, and I immediately began monitoring their weights as 3 of my 5 had lost a considerable amount. It took several weeks before I could tell the treatment was working by gains on the scale, but it took even longer for their droppings to start looking normal on a consistent basis. I also started mine on a daily dose of milk thistle, and dandelion root in powder form sprinkled on their food because Megabacteria can be very damaging to their internal organ's. I fed mine boiled/mashed egg's daily through the duration of treatment and until weights were normal or a little heavier. Will keep you and your little flock in my prayers for the same success my flock had. Don't stress, it will work out....


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi Alyssa, you certainly are being tested as to your budgies health and welfare. You are doing an amazing job of caring for them don't become disheartened.
In my situation I have a carrier bird. This means Budget has AGY all the time, it is not a death sentence remember this.
Budget gets regular check ups every six months to monitor his bacteria levels, of course if he shows any sign of sickness he is also taken.
I have a strict routine he has his own cage which is thoroughly cleaned fresh papers every day, fresh water with acv every few days and a HUGE Must as I see it probiotics added to his food.
Stress, change of weather, and humid conditions are a factor of this also. 
I will send you a PM with more details.:Love birds:


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## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi everyone! I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I haven't had a chance to sit down at my computer and type out replies, but I have been checking the forum to see what you guys have had to say. 

I also got in touch with the Petco I purchased them from and they are going to reimburse me the cost of their vet visit and for the prescription I had to get. They also said that instead of me paying for the follow up visit, have the vet call them and they will take care of it. Which is nice of them and makes the situation slightly less stressful in terms of the finances.



StarlingWings said:


> Hi Alyssa,
> 
> I'm so sorry to hear about this
> 
> I know that with the great care you give the flock, however, I'm sure they'll all pull through in great shape :hug: ....


Thank you, Starling!  :hug: I did stop putting ACV in their water a while ago, because I thought that it had been the cause of the seed in their droppings. I will have to pick up a new bottle on the way home from work tomorrow and start adding it to the drinking water again.

Thank you for telling me that I'm a good bird mom and thank you for the karma! 



Jo Ann said:


> Relax. Just take reasonable care as so far there is no cross species issues.
> Budgies eat each others droppings and this is a major way to transmit Mega or AGY. There are several TB members who have successfully brought their flock thru  With Amphoteracian B or Sodium Benzoate. The latter is far less expensive....


Thank you, Jo Ann.  :hug: Is there a possibility for cross species issues? I'm confused about what you meant. Do you mean there hasn't been any cross species in my home or any in the world? I had no idea that budgies ate each other's droppings and now I'm kind of grossed out. 

The vet prescribed them Amphoteracian, but I will ask her about Sodium Benzoate when the rest of the flock gets tested on Monday. I will start taking more care to clean the areas that I don't usually think of around the cage. Are you able to run food dishes through the dishwasher? I feel like that is an easier and more effective way to sanitize them. Also, how long do you put the toys in the microwave? I've never heard of doing that.

How often do you scrub the cage completely with white vinegar? I usually wipe down the perches with it every other day.

I will definitely start having to keep track of their weight. I had gotten batteries for my kitchen scale recently because I wanted to keep track of Arthur's weight after he broke his leg. I can see it being a big problem with some of my birds because they won't want to cooperate.

Do you use heaters all the time for your birds? Or just when the AGY is acting up?

I usually do check my bird's droppings when I go to change out the newspaper. Nothing too crazy, just a quick glance to make sure that everything is okay.



shanebudgie said:


> I'm so sorry.you got the best advice from our dear friends here.i am sure that recommendation will help them recover soon.we're here for you.sending healing prayers.blessings and keep us posted.its gonna be ok.


Thank you, Shane!  :hug:



FaeryBee said:


> *Alyssa,
> 
> I'm so sorry to hear your little ones are suffering from AGY. :hug:
> 
> ...


Thank you, Deborah!  :hug: I took a look at the articles and they were helpful in giving me some more information on AGY.



Cody said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this, I know how stressful it is to have to deal with multiple medical issues at the same time but they can all pull through. Hang in there you're doing great.:hug:


Thank you, Cody!  :hug:



Jonah said:


> Sorry to hear that you have to deal with this, but it can as JoAnn said be treated and treated effectively. Between JoAnn's advice and the link's Deborah has posted....


Thank you, Randy!  :hug: Is it possible to cure AGY or is it something that needs to be addressed when it becomes problematic?

I will keep a watch out for sugar in their diet. Where do you get milk thistle or dandelion root? When you say boiled egg, do you mean egg food? Or do you mean just straight up egg?

It's really hard not to stress. 



Pretty boy said:


> Hi Alyssa, you certainly are being tested as to your budgies health and welfare. You are doing an amazing job of caring for them don't become disheartened...




Thank you, Cathy!  :hug: If this is a test, then I hope it's over soon!  Thank you for telling me that I'm doing a good job, sometimes I doubt it.

When you say that Budget has AGY all the time does that mean he displays symptoms all of the time or he can't be cured? It's really hard not to think of it as a death sentence because it seems so scary.

When you say thoroughly cleaned, do you mean sanitized with white vinegar or something similar? I think the stress of moving to a new home is what triggered Lily and Luna to exhibit symptoms of AGY.


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

Alyssa hopefully I have answered some of your questions in the Pm I sent to you. Regarding cleaning I scrub and remove all signs of poop, food, and old dander I use a steam cleaner and a small tooth brush or nail brush for hard to remove dirt. Although I find if you clean regularly it is not that hard or caked on.
I do this with both of my cages, I also like to place them outside in the fresh air and sunshine, plus for the budgies too as they are in the cage .
Budget is happy and healthy for most of the time, I am very vigilant of any change of behaviour with him and then act.
Yes I agree with you also about the stress of the move, this could definitely bring on AGY. Fifo one of my other budgies tends to become sick when he moults I have noticed. he will vomit and become very lethargic. We can help our budgies by getting to know their body language and mood.


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## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

I just finished up at the vet and my six other budgies tested positive for AGY. Now I really want to cry and I am regretting my choice to have eight birds, only a little bit though.

Thankfully, the pharmacy had given me enough of the medication with the knowledge that my other budgies were getting tested so I wouldn't have to come back for more. The only thing is that the syringes they gave me there fit into the bottle a lot better than the ones my vet gave to me. When I tilt the bottle upside down to get the medicine, it ends up leaking all over me because the syringes don't have a good seal. Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this or work around it?

Other than the birds having cooties, everyone is doing really well and they are all healthy. Fred is slightly overweight, but I intend on giving her a lot more flight time in hopes that she will start slimming down. It was also suggested to me that I keep an eye on their bird bands because some of them are warped and squished. They have a potential to cut off circulation to the leg or get caught on a rope toy. I'm debating on just having them all cut off when I bring them back for a follow up. Any thoughts?

I also have a picture to share of George. I brought plastic containers with me to the vet because I figured it would be easiest to transport. I put two budgies per container and it worked out really well. The one hiccup is that Fred and George would go from fighting to then preening each other. They were fighting when the vet was looking at Charlie, so I asked if I could take George out since he's really cool and will sit on my hand and not fly around the room like the rest of them would. The vet and her assistant said it was fine so I took him out.

He sat on my hand for a while and then he made me into a liar and took off and started flying around the room. He decided to land on the vet's head and he stayed there. Even while she finished looking at Charlie and was moving around the room. The office posted the picture I took on their Facebook page. I'm including a link down below.

https://www.facebook.com/kensington...737974504644/1150118941666537/?type=3&theater

Needless to say, he lives up to his namesake, George Weasley, very well. :laughing:


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## Jo Ann (Sep 3, 2011)

*Megabac*

I am glad you had them all tested. Hopefully this will reduce the time that the flock is on meds, do not stop too soon as megabac/AGY can come back even worse. AGY can destroy a budgies internal organs. Good for you for taking your birds to the vet. The pic is great of your bird on the vets head. Our vet likes to hold Apollo but every once in a while he decides to fly . You can never tell when these little guys will decide to do things their way!!! Blessings for a speedy recovery for your flock. Jo Ann:green pied:


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

oh my George just made himself at home on the vets head hehehe.glad they're all on the road to recovery.blessings and thanks for posting the link.:green pied:


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Alyssa, I'm so sorry to hear all their tests came back positive  

Speaking of positive, you should stay as positive as possible during this time to make yourself and your babies feel better. You are such a great mum to them that you were able to recognise the symptoms early and now I have high hopes that they will all be able to be treated fully and effectively :hug: 

That picture of George is hilarious--Dr. Sinclair doesn't seem at all concerned  HE certainly has his mischief managed


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## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

Hi, everyone. I'm sorry that it's taken me a while to give you guys an update. I just have had a lot going on and haven't had the time to get on the computer.

The medicine is doing a good job! Lily and Luna's poops look so much better. They look normal and there is no longer undigested seed in them. Everyone else's droppings are looking pretty good too, with the exception of Molly.

Catching all eight of them and medicating them is a pain in the butt. It's a lot easier at night when I can shut off the lights and sneak up on them. It's a nightmare in the morning, though. Especially because Charlie has somehow become an escape artist and manages to get away from me every time. I've started calling him Char-dini. :laugh: Whether it's him biting my hand hard enough to let go, him wiggling his way out, or flying out of the cage past my arm, he is ridiculous. He gets out and does laps around the room that the cage is in and I try my best to keep him contained, but last week I had to chase him all over the house and it was ridiculous. I finally trapped him in the upstairs bathroom. This morning, he escaped to go visit Lily and Luna. I went out and bought a butterfly net because of him. I'm really tempted to clip his wings to make things easier on myself, but I feel like it's mean.

All the birds have gotten pretty good about taking the medication, too. I only have to fight a little bit to get their beaks open and then they swallow it when I give it to them. Much better than when they would just let it overflow in their mouth and have a messy face. Ginny, Charlie, and Molly are complainers and they usually screech at me for as long as I have them. I'm ok with that because it's a lot easier to get medication in their mouth when it's already open.  Arthur is definitely the most stubborn and he ends up with medication caked on his face so badly that his feathers are hard. I try to wash his face to help him out, but it just makes him really angry. He always spends the next few hours afterwards eye pinning at me whenever I enter the room, which I think is hilarious. He also loves to yell at me when I am trying to catch Molly because he doesn't want me to touch him. 

Overall, everything is going really well and the birds seem to be getting better. I just hate having to catch them all and they try to fight with them to medicate them, but it's getting easier everyday. 

EDIT: I am really hoping that this whole experience strengthens my bonds with my budgies and that they are more willing to interact with me. I know that me having to constantly monitor Arthur strengthened our bond and he is content to hang out with me. Right now, Arthur and George are the only ones who will perch on me for an extended period of time while the others like to pretend that they aren't tame. Lily and Luna acting that way is understandable because they're still pretty new, but everyone else has been here for a long time.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Alyssa, I'm glad that things are looking better with your flock! :clap: That's always great to hear 

Silly Charlie sounds like he's a real dragon tamer over there!   Perhaps catching him in a towel will minimise the risk of him biting you and he can vent his frustration on the towel 

I'm sure that after all of these medications there and back again, they really will realise you're not trying to hurt them :hug: 

I hope that all their droppings are back to normal soon and the medicine overcomes the megabacteria. :fingerx:


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## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

StarlingWings said:


> Alyssa, I'm glad that things are looking better with your flock! :clap: That's always great to hear
> 
> Silly Charlie sounds like he's a real dragon tamer over there!   Perhaps catching him in a towel will minimise the risk of him biting you and he can vent his frustration on the towel
> 
> ...


Thank you, Starling! 

The sad thing is that I catch Charlie with a glove on and then put him into a towel while I give him his medicine. He still manages to get away! He is very high maintenance.

I hope they realize I am not trying to hurt them soon. I also hope that the medication works and then I don't have to go through a second round of this nightmare. :laugh:


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I hope so too! :fingerx: Charlie sounds like a trickster. It must run in the family


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Good to hear that things are on the mend. You certainly have your hands full having to medicate everyone. There have been times when I had to medicate an ill bird 2x a day, the bird was not tame and it was a challenge to get it done but in the end he realized I was not there to harm he and actually became a bit more tame after the ordeal, maybe it will work that way for you as well.:fingerx:


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## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

StarlingWings said:


> I hope so too! :fingerx: Charlie sounds like a trickster. It must run in the family


It's a Tweetsley thing! :laughing:



Cody said:


> Good to hear that things are on the mend. You certainly have your hands full having to medicate everyone. There have been times when I had to medicate an ill bird 2x a day, the bird was not tame and it was a challenge to get it done but in the end he realized I was not there to harm he and actually became a bit more tame after the ordeal, maybe it will work that way for you as well.:fingerx:


Thanks, Cody!  I'm hoping that the same thing happens to me and all my birds end up tame.


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## bluewing (Feb 6, 2016)

You are HILARIOUS, Alyssa  and your budgies, especially George Weasley! Very cute and I am really happy to hear that treatment is going well and you are being kept active in an exercise of budgie proportions :lol:


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## Tweetsley (Nov 17, 2015)

I have great news! I took the flock in for their fecal swabs and they all are all clear! Meaning that the AGY is gone or we have knocked it down to undetectable numbers!    

Lily and Luna finished up their medication on the 14th. But Fred, George, Arthur, Molly, Ginny, and Charlie finish up on the 18th.

I also have the all-clear to start introducing them to one another. Which I am doing right now.


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

yay way to go.I'm so happy they're going to be alright now.thanks so much for keeping us posted.blessings always.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Alyssa, that is awesome to hear and truly made my day 

It's great to know that your little ones are back to normal and so wonderful to know that they are all better now because of your attentiveness, care, and love for them :hug:

You rock! :urock:


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Great job:thumbup: good to hear that they are all going to be ok.arty2:


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