# Basil isn't well despite meds...



## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi everyone, back again. Basil hasn't been herself and since Dec 24th has been prescribed enrofoloxacin sp?. Unfortunately she's been on this med many times and has always responded very well. The vet prescribed this med without seeing her to help me save some money and because it was so close to Christmas. I don't have a lot of funds but tomorrow I'm hoping to get her to the vet. 
She's been doing well, feathers in great shape, vent clean, preening herself and playing ect.. The past 2 days she's been un-interested in eating her regular food but eating her milllet. I even tried taking the millet out of her cage to see if she'd eat her regular food and she wasn't interested. Yesterday and today I've been trying to hand feed her to coax her into eating. She didn't eat much today at all, but she did eat and she drank very well this morning.. that I noticed. 
She's been sleeping a lot today, but I also was sleeping all afternoon. I always wonder if she picks up from my behaviour and feelings and responds that way. Life hasn't been easy for me and Basil and I are like 2 peas in a pod!!  We love each other so much. 
She did hand eat a bit two bites of carrot and some cantolupe not long ago. Then she quickly fell back asleep. I'm really hoping she makes it until I get her to a vet. I'm going to ask the vet about a fund called 'The Farley Fund' but apparently she won't be able to give me advance notice if I can access this fund to help treat Basil. It depends on how Basil is and if there are any funds left in it. The Farley Fund only has a certain amount to offer, once it's depleted it's not available. I'm hoping for a miracle.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Tasha,

I'm sorry Basil isn't doing well.
It sounds like you are doing all you can to make her comfortable until you get her in to see the Avian Vet. :thumbsup:
You might offer her some millet soaked in electrolyte solution to see if that helps to stimulate her appetite.

I'm moving your thread over to the "Budgie Health" section of the forum as this is not what is considered to be an "Emergency".
Sending lots of positive thoughts and prayers for little Basil.

I'll be looking forward to seeing your update on her condition after she's been in to see the vet.

Best wishes!*


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

Prayers for your little friend Basil...keep us updated...:hug:


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm terribly sorry to hear that her health has gone downhill again  

I agree, it sounds like you're doing as much as you are physically capable of doing for your precious girl, I hope it pays off in the meantime and Tasha feels better. Keep up the good work! :hug:

Keep us posted on what the vet says, I hope it goes well. :fingerx:


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*quick update..*

Basil has perked up for a little bit this evening but seems to take 'naps' often which I suppose is not a good sign? Do any of you know if it's a bad sign that she's not too interested in eating her regular food? (She will eat some, but hardly any.. definitely more interested in her millet and if I try and hand feed her some fruit and carrots) I am unsure if I should take her to the vet but it sounds like you all agree that it should be done.

A learning experience since Basil gets sick often.. wish I knew why, but I need to buy her some electrolyte for times like this. Is there any way of making one? Is AVC in her water a good idea?

Thanks for the well wishes and no problem that you moved this..thanks! Will keep updating. I did find a ride to the vet should I decide to take her. (That saves me $80.00 in taxi fees)

Basil sends her kisses.

ps- She's been on the enrofloxacin for nearly 2 weeks and she's really starting to fuss when I give it to her. She's making it hard on 'momma bird'. She squaks like it's the end of the world..poor honey! I stay as calm as possible for her but she still fusses so much.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I would call the vet and talk to him/her about Basil's condition to determine if she should continue to receive the enrofloxacin and discuss her diet. If s/he feels the need to reexamine her at this time, s/he can let you know.

Your vet knows your bird and her condition better than anyone on the forum and is the one most qualified to offer you advice on the matter. 

Take a look at this link:
http://talkbudgies.com/articles-bud...uardian-angel-pedialyte-pedialyte-recipe.html

Giving Basil ACV while she is on medication is not recommended. 
You need to wait until she's completed all medication prescribed by her Avian Vet as the ACV may interfere with the absorption or efficacy of the medication.*


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*Thanks!*

Thank-you Faery-Bee.. you're right, my vet knows her best I suppose but she's only been to this vet once before. I used to go to one across the river from me in another province but then I switched because I can only access this 'Farley Fund' by going to a vet in the same province I live in. So, we've started a new 'relationship'. The good thing about likely taking Basil in tomorrow is that the vet working tomorrow is the 'top' avian vet at that clinic..the one that has trained the other avian vets. I had actually recognized her name tonight and she was the one who looked after my previous budgie and I re-call her being really helpful. I wasn't happy the last time I went in with Basil in the summer.

Thanks for the ACV tip, I had only a tiny amount in her water this whole time. If I make the recommended dilution she doesn't like it too much. Fussy Basil!
Time for her night time meds, wish us luck!  (I'll stop the ACV right away)

When I called the vet they just automatically say to bring her in but I'll call in the morning and see if they can talk to the vet and let them know what's been happening since she's on meds from them! (sorry to write so much)


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Good luck and let us know how things go with the vet tomorrow!
:wave:*


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*re: Recipe for homemade electrolyte*

I made the homemade electrolyte but now I don't know if I replace that with her drinking water or what to do?! Faery-Bee said something about soaking it with her millet.

If I don't replace this with her drinking water, how do I go about soaking her millet with it? Basil is so fussy, I doubt she'd eat it if it was wet.. although I could always try.

Thanks!

I'm still so unsure about taking Basil, cause I think she picks up on how I'm doing. So confused.  I just want the best for her though.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You can try giving the electrolyte solution to Basil in place of her regular water. If she doesn't like it then put another container of regular water in her cage so she has a choice.
The most important thing is that she remain hydrated and if she drinks the regular water instead, don't worry about it.

Just take a small piece of millet, maybe 2 inches in length and soak it in a bit of the electrolyte solution for a few minutes, then place it in a separate dish or on a saucer. If Basil eats it, that's fine. If not, no big deal.
The idea is to make the effort. If Basil chooses to eat it, then it may help stimulate her appetite to eat her regular food. 

I'm not sure what you mean about "taking Basil"?
Do you mean taking her to the vet?
I thought you were going to call the vet first to see if she actually needs to be re-examined at this time. :S
If the vet thinks it's best she be re-examined since the meds do not seem to be working, then it is important you follow the vet's advice.

Remember, your vet is the one trained on treating birds. 
Your Avian Vet's advice, diagnosis and treatment plan is going to be better than any suggestions you receive on a forum.

*


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*LOL... thanks!*

Well, I poured some of the homemade electrolyte solution in a regular glass so she'd be interested in it. She was so interested in it she thought it was bath time at 11:30pm at night. Ha ha ha! I had to give her another bath to wash some of it off her feathers. I soaked Basil instead of the millet. 
Basil like real dishes, lol. I'll have to post a pic sometime of her having a 'bath' in a cup. She's one of a kind.

Thanks again for the advice Faery-Bee.. for everything you wrote. I'll make sure they ask the vet before I actually take her tomorrow. I'll keep you all updated. Night all.. got Basil's cage all warmed up with a hot water bottle on top, under a blanket. Ready to say goodnight! Could be a busy day tomorrow.


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*Back from the vet*

Hi everyone,
Basil and I are back from the vet. She was very good and I'm glad it was this vet whom I'd taken my previous budgie to see. She was open to the many questions I had. Basil was a little monkey putting on a show for us, doing flips in her travel cage. If only I could train her to do these flips at home!!

The vet talked to me about her diet and about switching to a pellet diet would be better for her health and gave me a few ideas for a fussy budgie to change her over. I don't know about this pellet diet because of cost, but perhaps I could at least, somehow, make it a good part of her diet and still serve her seeds. I'm definitely going to try more veggies and fruit with Basil and see how that goes. Hopefully I can find some info about this on here.

The vet put in a request to 'The Farley Fund' on my behalf so Basil could have a Fecal Gram Stain/Smear and Crop Smear, and for more Enrofloxacin and if required Amphotericin as they are testing for some kind of yeast infection. Unfortunately we did not hear back in time before the 'Farely Fund' place had closed for the day. The vet will call me once they hear back in the morning. She's confident these will all be covered.

We have an appt for tomorrow afternoon to have the tests done and thankfully I'll have a drive again. If the funding does not come through the vet will continue the enrofloxacin and add a different medication (which is $70. cheaper) to treat the possible yeast infection.

Thing is, which is good, Basil's weight remains stable, her heart is good ect.. the physical exam was great and Basil had tons of energy at the vet. She's certainly made up for it once we got home! She was even too tired and stressed to eat, but finally ate after 6hrs of not eating.  She has me worried. I hope she can handle another trip to the vet tomorrow. I suppose being extra close to her and extra attention would help. She's been sleeping most of the time since we've been back 3.5hrs ago. Thank-you for the well wishes and support through this. It's much appreciated.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Thanks for the update, Tasha!
I'm glad to hear Basil did well at the vet today.

Look at the information in the Diet and Nutrition section of the forum. There is lots of excellent information on how to convert budgies to pellets and how to introduce fresh vegetables and fruits.

You can print the following out and take it with you to the Vet appointment tomorrow and discuss it with her.

When I introduced pellets to my budgies, my Avian Vet recommended using Harrison's High Potency Mash and sprinkling it on the budgie's seed mix every day. This way, when the budgie hulls the seed it tastes the pellet mash and ingests bits of it as well. This helps the budgie identify the taste as a food source.

Even when sprinkling the mash on the budgies seed, I still kept a couple of other food dishes of pellets in the budgies' cages 24/7 (Usually three different kinds in three separate dishes for variety. :laughing1 Except for the Harrison's mash, I've never mixed their seed and pellets together.

One thing that worked for me was giving my budgies two rations of seed per day while keeping pellets in their cages 24/7.

I use a good quality seed mix and offer the budgies between 1/2 and 1 teaspoon of seed each morning right after I clean their cages. I sprinkle it over the clean newspaper that covers the bottom grate in their cages. This gives them the opportunity to have their seed and enjoy foraging for it too. 

Once the seed is gone in the morning, they have pellets available all day. Vegetables are served in a different dish - usually on-top of the cage.

The percentage of pellets to seed ratio often recommended is 60% pellets to 40% quality seed mix.

My budgies get their second ration of seed in the late afternoon/early evening. Again on a fresh clean newspaper on the bottom grate of their cage and again about 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of seed per budgie.

I'd also recommend using ACV in their water about 3 times a week as it is a natural pro-biotic. Using this helps maintain a healthy digestive system and boosts their immunity.
http://talkbudgies.com/articles-holistic-natural-remedies/103936-apple-cider-vinegar.html*


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## Niamhf (Dec 17, 2013)

Best of luck tomorrow and I really hope the funding comes through.


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

It will be great if you can get the stains and smears done. It sounds like your vet may suspect AGY if she is talking about possible amphotericin use. I would ask about the use of probiotics to restore good bacteria in your bird after having been on the baytril for awhile now. Prayers that your vet can get this pushed through and get good testing/diagnosis, and treatment for your girl....:hug:


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*Funding came through, off to the vet in less than 2hrs!*

Thank-you each of you for your messages, and the good thoughts and prayers. It's so much appreciated. Faery-bee, I'll respond to your msg another time but I will be bringing what you wrote up with the vet today. I've written your suggestions down. They did give me a sample of the Harrison's High Potency pellet but they didn't have the super fine or mash in stock. I suppose I could smash it myself.

She did talk to me about having Basil forage for her treats (millet) Basil doesn't like going to the bottom of her cage for some reason. I line it with paper-towel which on the rare occaison she'll shred but if she misses a perch or something and lands on the bottom of the cage, she climbs up really quick. (Although the bottom of her cage she can't see what's going on, because of the design of the cage)

Well, I let Basil have a special 'shower' under the kitchen sink tap after her morning medication so at least she's had some special attention. I'm worried how she'll be having to go to the vet twice and I'm sure the crop smear will not be fun for her. I guess just extra TLC is in order for sweet Basil.

I'll update when I can later this evening. Keep your fingers crossed. I almost wish something was wrong, so it would explain why she often gets sick. It's not that I wish her to have something wrong but it would be helpful to know if there's an underlying condition that we could treat to keep Basil happy and healthy.  Thanks again for everything!


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Tasha, I'm so glad the funding came through! Please let us know how the vet visit goes and tell Basil she's a very brave girl for me


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## Tasha (Oct 21, 2011)

*Basil's 2nd visit to the vet last week.. update*

Hi everyone, I apologize for not writing back sooner. I ended up with an emergency myself at the dentist following the 2 vet appointments. I finally feel a bit rested up. Basil had the fecal gram and crop smear tests which all came back negative. One thing they def were looking for was AGY (Avian Gastric Yeast) based on her history of tummy problems. The vet we saw the 2nd day was very thorough and was open to me asking a lot of questions! I made sure to get her business card.

I was told AGY is difficult to diagnose, as many times the tests may come back negative. So based on Basil's health history we've decided to treat her for it. They have a new treatment for it, I think the vet said it's somewhat experimental or (in new phases?). Instead of the 30 day treatment, 2x/day by mouth..which I don't know how we'd both be able to do it that long. Two weeks of antibiotics was tough enough on Basil and I. She's taking Potassium Benzoate Powder mixed in her water daily. I can't recall how long she'll be on it, but at least several weeks if not longer. Thankfully she likes the taste.

The vet's office is reapplying to The Farley Fund to have Basil in again for a follow-up and re-check of the tests. They're optimistic it will be approved. I go back to the vet this week to get more of her medication as the only stock they had expired Dec 31st, so I'll find out then. I'll update you if we get approved! I'm so thankful we were approved for the last vet visit. (which included her meds)

I did ask the vet about what Faery-Bee suggested about the ideas for changing Basil over to a pellet diet. She liked your concept Faery-Bee!  We tweaked that a bit, and she gave me tons of ideas and explained things really well to me about improving Basil's diet. I wrote a lot of notes.

They didn't have the super fine Harrison's pellets but I was given some of the pellet mash and fine pellets samples. So far Basil has been eating a bit of the pellet mash. One idea the vet gave me was to place a mirror on a flat surface where she likes to go (kitchen table for her) and put the pellets on the mirror. That way she'll think the 'other bird' is eating the pellets and she'll eat them too. Ha ha ha! Well, she's tasted it more than once and seems to be eating it. Now i'll start sprinkling it over her seed mixure.

She also approved of the pro-biotics, and sent me home with some. It's 2 syringes filled with a sticky paste of 'Ben Bac Plus' (that's what the syringe says). I'm having trouble getting Basil to eat it. I've tried it on a piece of fruit and cracker. I even tried it on my finger tip, but she won't take it and I don't want to waste it. Eventually when she's finished the medication she's on now I'll buy some of the powder form. Do any of you have some other ideas? She takes .05mg (for 3-5days, then 2x/weekly) Basil hasn't had a proper dose yet.

ps- Basil is eating better already, but not out of the woods yet. I didn't start the new med until Saturday though but the antibiotics finished this past friday. Keeping my fingers crossed for a healthy 2016 for sweet Basil !! Thank-you everyone. Will keep you posted on her progress. (Sure was tough handing her to the tech while she had the tests done, but was great I had a friend with me)


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm glad the update is positive, Tasha :hug: Basil seems to be bouncing back, and I'll continue praying for her recovery :fingerx: ray:

Keep us updated when you can, I'm so glad she's doing a bit better!


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm glad to hear Basil's appointment went well and the vet is working with you to improve her diet.

Several of us have used Sodium Benzoate with our budgies and I'm pleased your vet has suggested it as a treatment protocol for Basil. :thumbsup:

You can read more about it in the Budgie Articles:

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/169193-macrorhabdus-budgerigars.html

sunnydyazz has been using Sodium Benzoate for his flock very recently, in fact.
http://talkbudgies.com/diseases-illnesses/322049-sodium-benzoate-treatment.html
*


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