# Upper respiratory infection..??



## louise22 (7 mo ago)

Sorry it's not budgies...please delete if not allowed
One of my birds has been having some issues since I got him. The previous owner had them for 3 months and they were kept in a cage (never out) and in a small, dusty shed. When I went to pick them up, their cage tray was overflowing with dirt and emptied out seed. They were only fed a wild bird seed mix and sometimes only sunflower seeds, never got veg and filthy water. He had a lump at his left nostril...started to go down within a week or 2 so ended up not taking him to the vet for that....not sure if it is related to the breathing problems. He has had watery eyes on and off, with both eyes and he will lose the hair around the eye (his left is is fine now). He was making sounds when he breathed, sometimes a wet snuffle sound and other times a dry sound (from 21 seconds - 38 seconds in the video) I ended up taking him to an avian vet. He was given 2 medications...metacam and a liquid antibiotic. Both syringed into his mouth twice a day for 4 weeks. I only ever heard him make the noise twice while on it but when he had 4 more days of meds left, he started doing it again more frequently. It has been a little time since and he still makes squeaking/snuffle sounds occasionally, definitely not as much as before. Times that he would be worse is after taking a bath, when eating and when sleeping. Sometimes there is swelling on his chest, like a lump moving up and down, which you can see in the video. Hoping someone might have an idea what is going on.? Is there a test kit you can buy to test for bacterial or fungal infection without having to take him into the vet.? He has already been tested for chlamydia through a 3 day stool sample. Only reason he has waited so long to go to the vet for more testing (vet mentioned x-ray and bloodwork) is because I have heard of birds dying from stress just going for claw trims and just so worried about that happening. He isn't tame. When he went in for a check up, he screamed the whole time the vet was holding him. How would he be tested for Aspergillosis.? I feel like it may be this due to the old seeds on the tray, they would probably have been down eating it all the time. Also, is it worth treating for Iodine deficiency incase it's this.? Would that be safe to do.? The other bird has no symptoms of anything and they are free flying 24/7 so doesn't seem to be anything that can spread through birds. The link below is for the video of him.











































The lump next to his nostril


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

He's beautiful, thanks for rescuing him from his previous environment. Unfortunately there is not one specific test for Aspergillosis and is often a process of elimination based on a compilation of various tests and is a difficult problem to treat. Based on what you said about his former home he could have multiple issues in the respiratory tract. I am not aware of any type of test kit that you could use, the best thing would be to have a gram stain done on a crop swab, that would reveal the bacterial count of gram negative and positive bacteria and any other nasties such as fungus or parasites that might be there, although it is not specific as to what bacteria or fungus might appear, you would need to have a culture done to determine specifics. Iodine deficiency is easily treated with a solution added to the water. Has the possibility of air sac mites been addressed, that would be treated with Ivermectin which is generally put on the skin between the shoulders but can also be given by injection. I understand how you feel about the stress of various procedures, I have been through many with my birds from bloodwork and x-rays to major and minor surgery and thankfully they have not had any bad outcomes from the procedures, it can sometimes depend on the skill of the person doing the procedure, although always stressful, a team that handles birds on a daily basis may be more skilled and can get things done fast.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Thank you for rescuing him and giving him a safe and loving home! What is his name?
Cody has given you excellent advice and I agree with her completely.

Please be sure to let us know how things progress.*


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

Thank you. The vet that seen him was great with him so no problem with that. He literally screamed the full time she was holding him with how scared he was. 1 of my worst fears when any of my pets have to be sedated is losing them through it and I thought, he has had the problem for quite some time so surely can't be life threatening, which is terrible that he has been left for that reason but he does finally have an appointment booked for Wednesday (only avian vet in my area so been busy) and hopefully get to the bottom of it. Glad to hear your birds have been ok

Thank you...his name is Milo


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Glad you will be seeing the vet, this is a tough time for avian vets, they are all so busy my vet is booked 6 weeks out 😲


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*We will be looking forward to your update after Milo’s appointment with the Avian Vet. *


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Please keep us updated on how sweet little Milo is doing!


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

Just a little update. Vet thinks he has an upper respiratory infection. Been given a month of metacam and going back in for a saline nasal flush and have what comes out sent away to be looked into. Also might ask her to do a crop swab...going to call her tomorrow to find out if it would be any good to try that and if it would show anything different that the nasal flush won't


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

Vet will be called tomorrow

My bird has been to the vet with suspected upper respiratory infection. 

SYMPTOMS - snuffling/squeaking/clicking sound when breathing
watery inflamed eye
sounds are worse when eating or sleeping at night or after a bath
when eating, has a lump on his neck that goes up and down
scratches/rubs his beak/face alot
occasional open mouth breathing

What are the best tests to do to try and find out the cause and what antibiotic will treat it..?? I'm thinking saline nasal flush and crop swab..?? would a nasal flush and crop swab show up different bacteria's..?? he has already had a month worth of antibiotics and metacam which cleared the breathing noises for a while but started up again 4 days before before his meds had finished. Vet did say about trying a nasal flush but I'm going to ask about crop swab too. Just seeing if anyone who's birds have been through this has any advice. Also, can I give my birds lugols iodine supplement and avipro (for possible vitamin deficiency) or could that be bad to use when I don't know what is causing his problems..??


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

If he has been on antibiotics for a month you may have the wrong antibiotic to kill the bacteria or it maybe a fungal issue instead or in addition to a bacterial infection. I would have a gram stain test done on a crop swab and see what that shows. The lump you see may be material in the crop, if you are seeing an avian vet he/she should be able to tell by feeling the crop if it feels abnormal. If there is a sinus infection, which sounds possible because of the eye involvement and the rubbing of the face, a flush may help to remove debris but it will not cure the infection, ask the vet about drops for the eye. A culture may be needed to determine the best antibiotic for the bacteria, what have you been giving? Lugols iodine is used to treat goiter which is an iodine deficiency, ask the vet about using it, I would not go giving things that the vet has not prescribed, although vitamins would be fine.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I have merged your two threads regarding the upper respiratory infection into one. 
Please keep all your questions and updates regarding this particular topic in this one thread so it is easier for us to find the background and respond.

Cody has provided you with excellent advice.*


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

They did seem to work until the last 4 days which is weird, unless that was the metacam I suppose. Although he is at least 1 week into this round of metacam and still making noises when he breathes. Vet didn't recommend crop swab as he is not being sick or regurgitating. It definitely isn't food, it kind of balloons and moves up and down too. Mostly when eating but seen it a few times when he has been resting at night, usually slightly lower down then. He had a nasal flush and alot of pus and blood came out...is that normal? so that will be getting sent away to be tested. She did try taking a blood test but he wouldn't stop wriggling and screaming so got the smallest amount. She will be looking at his red/white blood cells with it but needs sedation to get a blood test next time he goes in. She did say I could add in Avipro twice a week but said Iodine shouldn't be needed. I remember reading online (a review on Avipro) that it shouldn't be given if the bird has a fungal or bacterial infection...is this true?


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

No it is not normal for pus and blood to come out, is he feeling any better? Is this an avian vet you are seeing? I am not familiar with Avipro.


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

Yeah it is an Avian vet. Didn't notice a change after the nasal flush. The results have came back and vet said he has a heavy count of enterobacteria so will have to be put back onto the antibiotics (marbocyl) and metacam for 4-6 weeks so he will hopefully get better now. Have you heard of enterobacteria? Trying to find out about it but not finding much online at all


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Enterobacteria refers to a group of gram negative bacteria, I am not familiar with Marbocyl is this a different antibiotic from what he had previously?


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

It is the same antibiotic but will be a longer course. Just realised, in the post I have put that he was on a 4 week course the first time but it was actually only 2 weeks.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I would ask the vet about the choice of antibiotic because a 2 week course is usually sufficient for most infections. If the vet suspects Chlamydiosis (Psittacosis), that requires at least a 45 day treatment with Doxycycline.


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## louise22 (7 mo ago)

He has been tested for chlamydiosis and negative


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