# I think Petrie might be dying now (after the vet)



## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

*What to ask the vet this afternoon!*

Hi all,

Sorry I frequently post only when things are going badly . Anyway, my older boy Petrie seems ill. His behavior has gone from his usual grumpy-old-man-pecky attitude to "oh yes, I would like some cuddles" in 24 hours. Besides for the obvious physical symptoms of being ill, the attitude change really freaks me out.

Other than that I've noticed that he:
- isn't eating as much as he normally does
-has had trouble pooping (and had a dirty butt this morning that I did my best to clean up. There was a chain of clogged poo, but the color of the poo was normal.)
-keeps picking at his butt and at his preen glad 
-is napping a lot
- and seems a little *off balance *and also feels lightweight (I haven't gotten him on a scale yet)

He's still playing a bit and chirping, and being SO amorous to everything (his usual MO). But I'm definitely taking him to the vet later because he's pretty old and I worry about him.

The trouble is, I'm not a huge fan of my current vet, but it is an avian vet office and really the best the city I'm in now can offer (I'm spoiled because my old avian vet in the last city I was in had 50 years of experience and was just the best. Saved one my babies lives and gave us an extra 3 years together).

My experience with this new vet is that they don't always thoroughly check things unless I ask them to do so. *So my plea for help is: does anyone have any suggestions of what to bring up with the vet (given the listed symptoms above)? My appointment is in a few hours. *

Thanks in advance,

Alba


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

I’m sorry to hear that your Petrie is ill . It’s good you’re taking him in today. 

An ‘avian’ vet most likely will know which tests seem necessary or not, after you describe the symptoms you’ve been observing. It might help the vet by telling them any environmental factors that might have been different lately, near any other birds, ate anything out of the ordinary, could have gotten into anything, etc. or really anything you can think of off hand that might impact his health. 

I would say that “telling” the vet as much information as you can, will benefit Petrie more than you “asking”. Of course then, ask whatever you wish as questions come to mind. 

A good idea to bring a fresh poop sample from this morning or from overnight. Since he hasn’t been eating much, he might not have enough to give on the spot. 

Good luck for Petrie, and please keep us posted


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I would expect a complete physical exam to see if there are any lumps or bumps where there shouldn't be, a test of the birds reflexes, a look at the eyes, ears throat and vent area. A test on the droppings to see if there is anything there that shouldn't be, maybe a crop swab depending on what the vet sees in the mouth/throat and they should get a weight. Depending on what the vet sees on the initial exam , maybe some bloodwork, but that may not be necessary yet.
Hope he feels better soon and the vet can determine if there are any problems to be treated. You might want to talk to the vet about possible nutritional issues that may be applicable as well.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Take a look at this link which gives information about what an Avian exam should include:

Avian Physical Examination

Good luck - please let us know what the vet has to say about Petrie's condition.*


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks all, heading out soon. He's doing a bit better, munching slowly on millet and a few pellets. 

Just want to point out something funny: That the vet I used to have that I mentioned spoiled me in terms of amazing avian care WAS Dr. Sakas ... the author of the article FaeryBee posted! I lived in Chicago and would drive all the way to Niles IL to see him. 

Hahaha, now you understand why all avian vets since have seemed less impressive by comparison, apparently my old vet literally wrote the book on avian care.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Dr. Sakas is my vet, absolutely unsurpassed in avian care, I don't know what I would do without him and his entire staff. Have you moved away from the area?


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## Birdmanca (Jan 24, 2008)

Ask all the questions related to the health of your bird that you wish to. If need be, write a list of what to ask. Listen well to what the vet tells you. Also, if any other questions you want to ask him, do it. You will feel bad later if you do not. Do the best on the visit that you can.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks all.

Cody: I moved from IL to GA... so very far from the area! But I agree, Dr. Sakas is the absolute best. 


The vet appointment went okay. She didn't feel or see any swelling, Petrie is pretty underweight... 4 grams lighter than the last time (he's 35 grams but he's like a 1/4 English budgie so he should be closer to 40). His poop stain didn't show any gram negative bacteria (and usually the bad stuff is negative), but it did show a lot of undigested material so clearly he's got some GI issues going on. 

They put him on standard antibiotics and L-glutamine (to reduce any internal inflammation) for now. I coughed up the big bucks for a culture of his poo, so in a few days I should know more about if it is bacterial, yeast (though she ruled this out because she didn't see the typical signs of this), etc. 

I'm just hoping it is nothing more serious, like PDD or tumors. Bless his lil heart, he's always been such a healthy boy... he just turned 10 and has really never had a serious health issue (unless you count having terrible molts).

I just wanted to thank this community once again for the helpful advice. It is really nice to be able to hear from fellow budgie parents who understand how much our feathered babies mean to us.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

alba said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> Cody: I moved from IL to GA... so very far from the area! But I agree, Dr. Sakas is the absolute best.
> 
> ...


10 years old is great, I hope nothing serious is going on with him. I would be happy to ask Dr. Sakas if he could recommend a vet in your area if you would like, just let me know the city, I know he knows avian vets all over the country.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks Cody, I would gladly take any recommendations Dr. Sakas has. I'm in Atlanta. 

Cheers.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

alba said:


> Thanks Cody, I would gladly take any recommendations Dr. Sakas has. I'm in Atlanta.
> 
> Cheers.


I'll be seeing him next week, I'll ask.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks Cody, I eagerly await any suggestions Dr. Sakas has.

I may take Petrie back to the vet this afternoon, he is not improving and he has been on the Baytril and L-glutamine for 4 doses now (5 days though... I give him his meds in the late afternoon). I've never had a bird remain sick for so long since my Charlie (RIP) who was chronically unwell due to tumors. 

I'm not totally positive he's gotten the full dose everytime, because its a war with him. I wish I had trained my babies to eat from the syringe... because when he knows the meds are coming he clamps his beak shut so tightly.But I don't know what else to do... I'm going to call the vet and see if they can do anything for him if I were to bring him in. 

Still waiting on the results from the culture...


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The waiting is difficult. Maybe a different combo of meds is needed. I know that whenever I have used an anti-inflammatory it has been Metacam. The antibiotic Metronidazole also has some anti-inflammatory properties to it. One of my birds has a liver problem and he gets infections easily. Recently he was on a cocktail of meds that required me to dose him 6 times a day, he sees me coming and is not happy, my birds are not hand tame so it is stressful for both of us. I turn the lights down and after I get hold of him I let him sit on my knee with my hand over him and while he is there I am able to squirt the meds in the side of his mouth. Have you tried tapping on the beak, sometimes that will get them to try to bite and you can then get the meds in.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

So as described my previous post (don't know how to link to it , but it was about taking him to the vet and what questions to ask) things have gone downhill rapidly.


I took him back to the vet this afternoon, and they gave him his baytril dose and then a ton of injections: subcutaneous fluid, onsior (20 mg/ml), and metoclopramide. 

His culture did finally come in and he does have Bacillus. I took him to the vet anyway because he wasn't eating that much today (though he was still chirping and flying a bit) and wasn't showing much improvement on the Baytril and they told me to bring him in and they'd give him some fluids and some anti-nausea meds to give him a little boost to fight the infection.

Anyway, I took him in and they did the aforementioned injections, and well as syringe fed him his daily dose of baytril. He looked terrible after they returned him to me (which I figured was because he had injections) and then in the car ride home I think he had a seizure. He flapped around, was on his back for a little bit, and might have even briefly been unconscious. 

I tried to turn around and go back to the vet but they were closed (they close at 2). I've called three emergency weekend vets and the only advice they gave was to bring him back in but when I asked, none of the vets on staff were avian vets. I don't want to freak him out by taking him to more vets today if I can help it, and I can't get a clear answer from any of them whether they could even do anything to help him (I doubt he can handle more injections).

I honestly don't know what to do, please help me. I even tried calling my old vet in IL to get advice. I feel so helpless, I feel like taking him to the vet today was what put him in his current state and I don't want to make it worse by taking him to a non-avian vet tonight. 

I currently have him in his carrier, with water and 2 bins of quinoa (his favorite food... there's 2 bins because he has decided to perch on the first 1 I put in there) and some millet in there. It's wrapped in towels on 3 sides and I have a heat lamp shining down on it (but I have half the carrier covered so he can be in the dark if he wants to be. 

I've seen him take a few sips of water, but he hasn't eaten a thing since this morning (he ate a 1/4 inch piece of millet before I took him to the vet, and a little avicake). 


Ugh, I feel so helpless, I don't know what to do. Will taking him to the emergency vet stress him and cause another seizure? If they hospitalize him overnight I'm worried he'll die alone, at least here his brother is singing to him sweetly from across the room. I feel like I'm watching him die . He had 1 other seizure years ago (at home, while we were watching TV, it was completely random). I remember he was pretty fluffed and not eating after it for maybe an hour ... but its been about 3 hours so far. 

Any help of advice would be appreciated. My nominal plan is to wait out the night at home and then maybe take him again in the morning (if he could handle more fluid injections). My normal vet though isn't open until Monday... so tomorrow would also have to be the emergency vet (none of them today are avian certified... but maybe tomorrow they'll be one).


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

How very stressful, sorry to read this. With everything that was done I am sure that it was very stressful for Petrie. I have experienced similar things when one of my birds has had so much done in one visit, one of mine once passed out and was limp after getting fluids but came back around, really scary. Last time I took my guy with the liver issue in (he was not doing well) they took him in the back and put him in an incubator to keep him warm while I was waiting. Dr. S. examined him gave some injections and when he put him back in his carrier he looked awful and was unsteady.I took him home and kept him quiet and turned the lights down and did not let him out for 24 hours, he gradually came around so I think that the stress of everything along with not feeling well was too much. That may be the case for Petrie as well, keep a close eye on him and let him rest however he is most comfortable. The metoclopramide is the anti-nausea med, did they send any home with you, it has really helped my birds in the cases where there was vomiting or prior to giving meds that were upsetting. If he is feeling a bit sick to his stomach that will help him feel better and he may eat more once that takes effect.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi Cody,

Thanks for the reply, you've been so helpful to me during this situation, I've really appreciated it.

They did give me metoclopramide syrup to give to him via syringe (before the baytril... which he negatively reacts to). I think because they also did the injection this afternoon I'm not supposed to start that until tomorrow (he seems to weak to give medicine to tonight anyway). 

He hasn't really improved, but it looks like he was thinking about eating (he briefly put his face in the quinoa bowl and ate one single piece) ... but then he gives up like he doesn't have the strength for it. It is good to hear that your bird made a complete recovery after passing out post vet once... I hope Petrie comes back to. He is perched at least ... and briefly preened himself for 30 seconds. So he is at least a little more responsive than before. I'm just worried that he won't make it unless he eats soon, since he hardly ate before the vet and he even threw up a little post baytril at the vet.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Give it a bit more time, the fluids will hold him overnight, and if they gave the same injections that Dr. S. gives it may have been a sort of vitamin cocktail to boost him a bit.


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## philw (Aug 22, 2014)

Anything food-wise that he will eat is good. Not eating isn't good. Millet spray, if he'll eat it, give it to him. Hard-boiled egg pressed through a wire strainer might be tempting.
I understand your stress in these types of health issues. Good luck.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi all,

Thanks for all the help. Thankfully he made it through the night, but still is struggling and not really eating (though he is drinking a little). I'd say that in the last 24 hours he's eaten a small bit of millet and bit of quinoa (which I've mixed with Harrison's recovery formula).

I have so many questions regarding the meds I'm supposed to be giving him, and I'm incredibly frustrated that I can't get a hold of a vet. My own vet is closed until tomorrow, and the emergency vet they refer their patients to doesn't actually have an avian certified vet. Plus, they won't discuss details of his medication until I bring him in and they even told me "there's probably not much we can do for him today". So I feel like I'm going to have to wait one more day before I can talk to the vet we normally go to.

Meanwhile, I've got a cocktail of medicine to deal with and I don't know if he should be taking them given his current state. He's supposed to get:

1) .05 ml of *L-glutamine* (for inflammation I think?) 
2) probiotic in the water
3) .03 ml of *Baytril *to treat bacillus in his gut, the problem is that after he takes the Baytril he sometimes vomits and then he REALLY won't eat. 
4) and now .03 ml of *Metoclopramide* syrup to help him not vomit the Baytril
5) Yesterday pre-seizure (all at the same time) the vet did an injection of fluids, *onsior* (I think for pain), the *metoclopramide* (injected form), and they then syringe fed him is *baytril* (which he threw up, right at the vets).

After his seizure yesterday, I'm a bit worried that one of the new medicines triggered it... specifically the metoclopramide which on websites describing its use for pets seems to warn that it should not be used in animals with history of seizures (Petrie has had at least 1 seizure before that we know about, probably about 2 years ago). So I'm thinking about holding off on that today, just to be safe... though I'm worried because I think this medication was supposed to help him keep eating. But possibly giving him another seizure seems like a greater risk, right?

I know that stopping a antibiotic midcourse is a bad idea, so at some point I should give him his baytril to fight the infection. So my nominal plan now is to:

*Ditch the probiotic water (which he's already had a lot of today and last night) and instead give him a little sugar water , that can't hurt, right?

* Mix the L-glutamine in with his food... he might not get that much of it, but the vet did say it wasn't as important and that if I needed to it could go in the food

* Ditch the metoclopramide until I talk to the vet, and instead just give him the full day to try to eat... giving him the Baytril in the evening when he wasn't going to be doing much eating anyway

Any other ideas, thoughts, or advice? I just don't want to make anything worse for him... the seizure was so scary, I thought those were for sure our last moments together and for hours afterward he wasn't himself at all. He was so disoriented and confused


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Just want to thank whoever merged my Petrie posts and give a brief update:

I don't want to be too optimistic but I think he is doing better. He just ate more food then I've seen him eat in the last 3 days (a mix of his favorites: quinoa, rice, avicake, a bit of seed, and some millet), and now he's napping all that eating off a bit. 

He was not eating earlier today at all, so I've been giving him tiny syringes of the harrison's recovery to help build his strength (and prevent him from throwing up his antibiotic). That Harrison's formula must taste amazing because he hates being syringe fed, but after a little formula he starts smacking his beak like he's surprised that it doesn't taste bad.. and then he basically lets me finish slowly giving him drops of it. I think it padded his little stomach enough to not vomit up the baytril (also helped that post-baytril I gave him a little formula chaser... so maybe he didn't even know that he had his meds). 


Hopefully he'll beat this horrible infection. It's been such a whirlwind of emotions the last few days, so I don't want to read too much into one night of enthusiastic eating... but it does feel good to see him act a little healthier.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

That's great news, so glad to hear that he has gotten some nourishment in him and is feeling better.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm sending lots of healing energy and prayers for little Petrie to have a full and speedy recovery. :hug:*


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks for the kind wishes all!

He is doing SO MUCH better. He doesn't seem to want regular seeds or pellets yet, but is happy chowing down on avicakes, millet, and quinoa (mixed with a bit of the harrison's recovery). And his poop almost looks normal, whereas just a few days ago he was hardly pooping and when he did it looked tar-like (which implied there was blood in his little gut). The only downside to his amazing improvement is that it is getting much harder to get him to take his meds, even though he is still in his tiny quarantine cage he is hard to catch when he knows it's medicine time.... also he is an expert at the last minute head-turn (that causes me to get medicine on the side of his face instead of in his mouth). I'm happy though that he's feeling well enough to make medicine time such a struggle . 

He's also now singing and calling to his brother a bunch who is still in the big cage they normally share, across the room , and even "budgie barked" (you know, that annoyed screech all budgies make) at the dog the other day. 

I still can't believe how close he was to dying on Saturday (post-seizure). My vet thinks that given his history with seizures, recent gut issues, and crazy weight-loss over the last month (from ~40 grams to 32 grams) he may have PDD. 

I wonder if there's a chain for PDD somewhere on this forum? I've heard of larger birds surviving it for years with lots of hand-feeding and careful monitoring. The vet mentioned that I may want to give him stuff like the harrison's recovery going forward every time I notice his weight starts to drop a lot (and that I need to start weighing him weekly).


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

So glad to hear that he is doing better. Has the vet tested for PDD? I know that if PDD has effected the kidneys that the virus can be shed in the urine and show up in a test, otherwise I think there is an antibody test of some sort, but maybe the vet does not want to subject him to more because of his weakened condition. Has Avian Gastric Yeast been ruled out completely? I had a bird that had it and never shed it in the droppings but Dr. knew he had it from symptoms and x-rays. When the bird passed I had him do a necropsy to confirm and he was correct. Hope Petrie continues to improve.


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## Birdmanca (Jan 24, 2008)

I know how it feels if you find a vet you think is good and have real trust in. I have been lucky enough to also have had 2 vets like that. Sure, your old time vet was like the 2 I had. I have also been to a vet who was after making a sale and money who left me feeling cold. I left and eounf a good vet shortly after to finish up what my budgie needed. Good Luck.


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## Blingy (Feb 26, 2018)

What a scary time you’ve had and I’m so relieved to read that your darling baby is doing better now. Sending lots of love and healing energy for a speedy full recovery. 


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm so glad he's improved so far! Sadly I don't have any new advice on possible PDD but it is great to hear that he's doing so much better  

I hope he continues to do so.


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Some years ago, I had a parrot who passed from PDD (Proventricular Dilation Disease). It used to also be called Macaw Wasting Disease, but nowdays they know it can happen in any species of bird in the Psittacine family, which includes budgies. 

It’s considered a contagious illness, and is thought to usually be spread vertically, that is, from parent to chicks. There is some discrepancy as to whether it can be spread horizontally, meaning from bird to bird. It is a fragile virus that they find doesn’t live long in the environment but still should be treated as a contagious disease in regard to other birds. 

As far as I know, the blood testing they have is still not 100% accurate. A crop biopsy or necropsy is the only way to confirm PDD. A very experienced avian vet can make an educated guess. 

I hope it is not PDD, and that Petrie is well soon .


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi all,

Thanks for the well wishes. I think he's still on the road to recovery, but he seemed a bit worse today ... he's singing and playing and wants badly to get out of his quarantine cage and back in his normal home with his brother, but his poops look worse today than yesterday. I suspect he might have spit a little bit of his antibiotic out last night... so that may be why there was a slight relapse. He was taking it before... all I can think of is that it was slighty too chilled for him (I keep it in the fridge)? I'm gonna let it get to room temp first next time. 

My vet mentioned that she couldn't truly test for PDD, but based on the undigested material in his poo and his neurological symptoms PDD is something we should keep in the back of our minds. She said if he doesn't improve with the antibiotics she could take x-rays to check for the enlargement of some organ (I forgot which one..) that is associated with PDD. 

I really hope he doesn't have it...


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

And he's still worse today... He really seemed like he was improving so much, but now he won't really eat anything and looks uncomfortable (and is having bad poos again). It may be antibiotic related, because he perhaps isn't getting is full dose because he's spit it back out the last couple times. But he's successfully had at least 7 successful does of antibiotic... seems like he should have been improving more. 

I just can't shake the feeling that something (besides an infection) is seriously wrong. He feels clumsier and off balance when he is perched on me (like somehow he has more weight in his butt region than he normally does). I know that sounds weird. 

Cody if Dr. Sakas has any recommendations of vets, I'd still love to know. I may try to get a 2nd opinion.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

alba said:


> And he's still worse today... He really seemed like he was improving so much, but now he won't really eat anything and looks uncomfortable (and is having bad poos again). It may be antibiotic related, because he perhaps isn't getting is full dose because he's spit it back out the last couple times. But he's successfully had at least 7 successful does of antibiotic... seems like he should have been improving more.
> 
> I just can't shake the feeling that something (besides an infection) is seriously wrong. He feels clumsier and off balance when he is perched on me (like somehow he has more weight in his butt region than he normally does). I know that sounds weird.
> 
> Cody if Dr. Sakas has any recommendations of vets, I'd still love to know. I may try to get a 2nd opinion.


I sent you a PM about that did you not get it?


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi all,

Sorry for continuing this really long thread. The saga continues though...

I haven't posted in a few days because Petrie got much worse again. Just acting like he's in pain, minimal vocalizations, minimal eating, plus the other night his feet were swollen! I think this is in part why he seems so clumsy/has trouble perching/walking around. I called the vet again but they said if its a foot infection the antibiotic he is currently on should also treat it (I went back to the vet on Friday and we switched to clavamox as the antibiotic since he was vomiting up the baytril like clockwork, luckily the clavamox doesn't seem to bother him at all).

I'm at a loss with what to do, as he is really not improving. My poor boy, I hate to see him suffer for so long. I put in a flat/handicap perch with some moleskin around it and he stays on it almost half the day, he also sleeps there sometimes in the weirdest position, like with his head/beak pointed up. Does anyone know what that means? Does he now have respiratory issues to add to the feet and GI issues? Ugh. 

It sounds like the vet thinks I should give the new antibiotic a few more days, and if he still is like this then they can do more tests to see if its something chronic (like PDD, or liver disease, or something... I don't know). 

I think the one medicine he really needs is an anti-inflammatory, because he strains to poop. I got the impression though from the vet that those don't mix well with antibiotics because she told me that after the course of antibiotics if he still is having issues, then they can put him on NSAIDS and treat him for PDD. I wonder why he can't be on both...


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry to hear he is not doing well, this sure has been a roller coaster. Has the vet mentioned the possibility of gout? I bring this up because with gout whether visceral or articular it can cause a good deal of pain. When you mentioned that his feet were swollen I wondered if what you may be seeing are uric acid deposits in the joints that may make it look like swelling?
I have been prescribed an antibiotic with Metacam which is an anti-flammatory with no problems so you may want to ask the vet if it was just a specific combo that may be a problem.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Nobody has mentioned gout to me yet, but his left foot has a "mound" on it that looks kind of like a less extreme version of what a google search for birds with gout turns up. 

I have an appointment with the vet friday morning, I'll make sure to bring gout up and have her look at his feet. 

Poor little guy. He loves his new moleskin flat perch, maybe I'll add a few more to his hospital cage.

He is still eating, but he is craving weird stuff. Basically he just wants the fresh stuff now: quinoa, carrot, and kale. He's not really eating millet, seeds, or pellets... though he does occasionally much at one of the seed sticks in the cage.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Quick question:

I was thinking about giving him some electrolytes in his water since he seems a little dehydrated today, I know pedialyte is usually safe for budgies but I checked my local cvs and all I could find is the flavored powdered stuff (which has added sugar). Is the flavored powered stuff ok for him? I was thinking about offering half water + half pedialyte in his water bowl later.


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## sweettreat (Jan 3, 2014)

Hoping Petrie improves with the new antibiotic. You sure have done everything possible to make him well. Wishing him and you the best outcome.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

To my knowledge visceral gout is difficult to detect as it effects the organs and there is no specific outward sign, the bird can show signs like lethargy and poor appetite but that can be seen with any number of illnesses. With the articular gout, uric acid crystals are deposited around the joints and you can sometimes see a nodule beneath the skin. The drug Allopurinol can help but not cure the problem. I had a canary that had visceral gout. With either form of gout the kidneys are involved, does Petrie seem to drink more water than before he was sick?


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

I think he has been. I normally never catch the boys drinking, but Petrie probably goes for water ~5-10 times a day (that I catch).


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Make sure you mention that to the vet if you have not already done so. I suppose there are any number of reasons why a bird would consume more water than usual and gout is one of them.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*If you choose to use Pedialyte for Petrie, the information in the link below should be useful:

Guardian Angel/Pedialyte/Pedialyte Recipe*


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi all,

Went back to the vet today, got some bad news: it looks like he has gout, both the internal kind and the on his feet. They gave me prednisolone for his pain/as an anti-inflammatory. I don't know much about the controversy of steroidal meds versus the NSAIDS, but the vet seemed to think he likely doesn't have that much time left, so might as well give him what works best. 

Likewise on the diet recommendations, I know gout treatment is supposed to involve low protein diets (and I've been feeding him the very high protein harrison's recovery!), but the vet said its just more important that he eats whatever he *will* eat. I heard that I can give him baby cereal, but it looks like it has added iron ... can he have that?

I'm somewhat in shock. He was such a healthy boy for the last 10 years, eats a fresh diet of seeds, pellets, and LOTS of veggies. Loves his veggies. Gets tons of exercise. I just can't believe that he won't make it much past 10... the vet seemed to think that it could have been genetic, as some of the blue budgies and english breeds (Petrie is either 1/2 or 1/4 english) are more likely to develop it. 

The vet said treatment wouldn't hurt him any, so even though the vet thinks it won't help him that much I'm at least going to try the allopurinol. 

I'm so heartbroken, the vet made his chances sound so bleak. He's been my baby for 10 years, and is the most loving, most cuddly, sweetest boy ever.


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## Blingy (Feb 26, 2018)

I’m so very, very sorry. This is so unfair and I wish there was a way to make your boy all better. He is so loved and we’ve all been praying so hard that he’d get better. I wish I had the words to make you feel better, . Hopefully the medication will ease any pain he has and give him a lot more time than predicated. You are in my heart and my thoughts and I’ll continue to pray for your darling boy. 


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry about that diagnosis, will he eat just millet or another seed diet rather than the high protein, I am thinking that even if you cut the protein a bit maybe it would also help, providing of course that he will eat something else. If he becomes more comfortable maybe he will feel like eating more.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm so sorry to hear Petrie's diagnosis. :hug:
Cody has made a very good suggestion.*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Cody said:


> Sorry about that diagnosis, will he eat just millet or another seed diet rather than the high protein, I am thinking that even if you cut the protein a bit maybe it would also help, providing of course that he will eat something else. If he becomes more comfortable maybe he will feel like eating more.


A couple of times when I had an ill bird that was not eating well one thing they did eat was hulled oats, don't know why but you might try it too.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thank you all for the kind wishes and helpful advice.

If he was able to bulk back up he would certainly just eat millet and grains, he loves that stuff (quinoa is a favorite... but he used to eat oatmeal and loves that warm mushy brown rice cereal, its like brown rice grits). 

Both my boys usually got a teaspoon of seed mix a day (which does have a few large pellets in it, but they don't eat those), then Caesar eats pellets the rest of the day and Petrie probably eats half the pellets Caesar does and then opts to pig out on fresh food. If he feels better, he would love the recommended gout diet of fresh foods and carbs, those are already his favorites. (Caesar on the other hand will hardly touch fresh foods, he'd be happy full pellet all the time). 

Do those vitacraft seed sticks have a lot of protein in them? Those are a favorite of Petrie's as well because he likes to forage. 

The vet I saw yesterday didn't think it was PDD related or bacterial since the antibiotics don't help any. He told me it was safe to let him hang out with Caesar. So luckily they both ate a lot of millet last night (not like Caesar needs it, but seeing him eat makes Petrie eat) . 

If he starts acting any better with the anti-inflammatory and eats enough, I should be able to cut out the Harrisons. Right now, what I'm giving him is pretty watered down, so it doubles as a way to get more fluids in him. 

Sadly he still won't drink the pedialyte on his own, I watered it down a lot, but he apparently thinks its real gross. He always drinks out of the bin that just has normal water in it.

The vet said I could try vitamin water, or watered down juice, or really anything at this point. So I might pick up some of that later. 

Thanks again to this wonderful community.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Here is a link to the Vitakraft product that shows the nutritional info https://vitakraftsunseed.com/vitakr...ple-baked-crunch-sticks-parakeet-variety-pack if this is not the product you are referring to you can probably find it in their site. How about some tea, have you ever offered some room temperature tea, maybe chamomile tea would be soothing.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

I haven't tried tea yet, I bet he'd love some chamomile (I'll have to go buy some, I only drink black tea). Giving him the warm harrison's (very watered down), usually inspires him to eat afterwards. The warm liquid must help warm him up a little bit and give him a boost. Anyway, I bet he'd love warm tea. The vet said I should aim to give him 1 ml of fluid a day... so I need variety! (1 ml is really hard, today I only got to .7 ml). 


I know I can't be too hopeful, but it was at least comforting today that Petrie had a good day. I think the anti-inflammatory is really helping his gut feel better. He's eaten more tonight than I've seen eat the past 2 weeks. I let him back in his big cage for a bit with his brother, and he said hello to all his favorite toys, ate with his bro, even starting to sing a bit. Plus in the big cage he can fly perch to perch (so far, he has much better control flying then jumping and relying on his feet  ). 

I'm afraid little Caesar will pick on him though, plus it's hard for me to keep the big cage as warm as I'd like him to be kept at. So I'll likely let him sleep in his little hospital cage at night, and keep him in there when I'm at work as well. But I'm moving the two cages next to each other. 

I feel so relieved he had a good day. Makes me hope he can still have quality of life for a bit longer.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

You're doing such an excellent job with little Petrie! I know he appreciates everything you've been doing :hug: 

The tea is definitely worth a try! 

Please keep us posted on how he progresses. We're all sending positive and healing vibes your way ray:


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## sweettreat (Jan 3, 2014)

So sorry to hear the diagnosis. You are doing all the right things for this little guy.
I will continue to keep you and Petrie in my prayers.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks all for the kind words and well wishes. I hope I'm doing the right thing for him. I know its not right to let him suffer, but it seems like he still has quality of life (and hopefully many many months of quality of life). I'll never forget a previous vet (not my regular one, an emergency vet) once suggested I put my old bird Charlie down when we she was unwell and we first discovered she had internal tumors... I wanted to see how she'd respond to antiinflammatories first. Long story short, I had another TWO years with her! And until days before the very end, you would have never known she was sick.

I don't want to to give up on Petrie. He still enjoys eating, playing, getting cuddles, singing to his reflection, and flying laps around the room with his brother.

Some status updates: 

*Meds:* The only meds he'll be on now (likely for the rest of his life) are the prednisolone and the allopurinol. It just so hard on weekends, because I'm home during the afternoons and can see him much more sleepy than he is from 5 pm -10 pm (he gets his prednisolone after I get home from work at 5 pm, so that's likely why he looks much better in the evenings). But I suppose the rest he normally gets in the afternoons when I'm at work is equally important to his wellbeing.

*Weight*: Relative to how he was doing a few weeks ago though, I think he is overall much better._ He already has gained a full gram of mass (!!!!)_) Though I want to start weeding the harrison's recovery formula out from his fluid therapy because it is not good for the gout. I'm a little worried that the weight will drop again after I filter out the harrisons...

*Diet:* I've been giving him some variety of foods to see what he'll eat but so far the only things he really stuffs himself full of are _millet and fresh veggies_. I make a mash of broccoli, carrots, parsley, thyme, and dill (the herbs in very small amounts) and mix that with either brown rice or quinoa... that goes over very well, I'll try to post a picture of him gorging on veggies. He'd also eat a whole carrot if I let him... great for gout, but not so great for gaining back his weight. So weird, he won't touch his normal seed mix or the pellets that used to be his main diet. It's like he *knows* somehow that his little kidney can't handle those pellets.

I'm hoping to get him into carb stuff in addition to the fresh veggies, this morning he ate a little wheatabix mixed with hot water, but not with the gusto that he eats his water filled veggies. I'm worried that if he continues to just chow down on veggies he'll remain too skinny... but one day at a time.

Fluid-wise, I've been giving him some watered down cherry juice which is supposed to be good for gout, either way, it's tasty and we both like it (haha I can't stop drinking glasses of tart cherry juice mixed with sparkling water, it is delightful). He mostly just drinks his cherry/water mix from the syringe though, he keeps getting weirded out by water in his water bowel that isn't clear colored.

I feel like I've become a pro now and getting medicine, fluid, whatever into a bird. If anyone want to know my method, happy to share. Though Petrie is very tame, so I can't promise that our little syringe + cuddle sessions will work for all.

*Cage:* Being near/with his brother definitely makes them both happier, but I've seen Caesar being mean to him when he's unwell, so when I'm not home or when its time for bed they are in separate cages right next to one another. I've filled Petrie's cage with lots of flat perches, I'll try to upload a pic of that as well. Lot's of moleskin covering on things, etc. He's much happier being back in a normal sized cage again, with the option of easily visiting his brother. I think the tiny hospital cage was making him depressed.

(Side note: Anyone have some good recipes for a nontoxic poo remover? The problem with flat perches is that he poos on them all the time. I usually just spray and wipe with a vinegar and water mix, but let me know if there is some sort of "miracle remover").

Sorry for writing a novel. And thanks again to everyone for the warm wishes and helpful advice regarding my little baby.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I would not give up either, if he's flying around the room he can't be feeling too bad. I would let him eat as much of the veggies as he wants I think the water content will be good to flush things out. 
You are lucky that he is tame, he would be more difficult to medicate if he was not. Good to know things are heading in the right direction, keep up the good work.:thumbup:


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You are certainly doing everything you can to ensure Petrie is as healthy and happy as possible. He's very fortunate to have you to love and care for him. :hug:
:urock:

To answer your question regarding perch cleaning, I always clean my birds' perches with straight white vinegar.*


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

So the saga really continues, I'm worried that he has some sort of respiratory infection now. 

Tonight after absolute stuffing himself of food, veggies, millet, avicake, etc. over a period of just 10 minutes he has been making a weird noise, not quite a cough and not quite a squeak... it's like a light honking?! 

I'm hoping that he just ate too fast (I mean he really did eat a lot...) and maybe inhaled a millet hull or something. I've noticed the light honking last night post eating as well. Other than that he was playing with his toys (while making the noises) and being fairly active. He's stopped doing the noises now that he's done eating. 

The only other thing I can think of it that maybe he is uncomfortable/in a little pain when he eats? I hope that's not the case . 

I'll call the vet tomorrow and see if they think I should bring him in. He's on the prednisone , so I know he is more at risk for infections because it lowers his immune system. 

Sigh, its so depressing that even a great day for him (relatively speaking, he's been eating and playing) is marred by some other health woe. 

If anybody knows what "honking" could mean, I'd love to heard more.


p.s. Cody: I made him some warm (watered down) chamomile tea after work today, was such a hit!!! Normally he doesn't drink things that aren't water from the water bowl. But I've seen him sip from the tea multiple times.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Maybe he did just eat too much too fast I don't think I have ever heard any of mine do the honk noise. Hope everything is ok, glad he liked the tea. Keep us posted on how he is doing.


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Thankfully, no honking tonight, he didn't eat 1/2 a spray millet in like 5 minutes so maybe he did just eat too fast yesterday and inhaled something. 

I talked to the vet today and they suggested I wait. They confirmed that the prednisone takes a few hours to kick in and so him being active in the evenings (and very sleepy during the morning/afternoon) is probably because of my medicine schedule. They also mentioned that it takes several doses for the prednisone to really kick in, and eventually he'll get some longer term effects. 

Thought I'd share some joyful photos from tonight's veggie sesh, trying to make the most of the time we have left. 

(He loves to munch millet + avicake on the top of the cage, so I figured I'd also try placing a watery tray of veggies and rice up there to see if he'd try it. Amazingly, I walk into the room and there he is, digging into that little white dish with gusto). 


Also, was wrong about him somehow knowing pellets aren't easy for his kidney to handle. He's been eating them the last few days... luckily not in crazy amounts. I'm hesitant to not offer him all the food options, just because he's still so underweight. If he gets back to a healthy weight ever I'll try to enforce the "gout diet" a little more strictly.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

He's looking good, if he's moving around and eating he must be feeling pretty good too and that's progress, keep up the good work.:clap:


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## alba (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I wanted to thank you all for the advice and the help over the last few months. 

Petrie passed away tonight, I'm alternating between being totally heartbroken and in a state of disbelief because it happened so fast. He was doing well this past week (eating veggies, flying around, playing with his toys and his brother), just the last 24 hours seemed pretty rough for him. 

I'm going to post again soon with a more ****ing tribute to my little baby boy. But I will say that he passed very gently and it all happened very quickly. I was giving him a cheeky/cuddles, and he just turned to look at me and then lay his belly down flat very gently. I didn't know what had happened at first, because it seemed like he was still looking at me enjoying his cuddles. 

I'm still trying to process everything, but I'm at least grateful that this happened while I there doing our nightly cuddles.


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## Birdmanca (Jan 24, 2008)

Just as you posted here, ask all your questions to this vet you see now. You have a right to ask any question regarding your birds health you choose to ask. No need to have hin suggest everything. You are paying good money there, so ask your questions. He might actually like you having the questions for him. Since he is an Avian vet, he would know a lot about birds. Good luck in getting Petrie well.


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## Blingy (Feb 26, 2018)

Oh Alba, I’m so, so sorry to read this extremely sad news. Petrie fought long and hard to get better and I’m sure that knowing how loved he was, helped him a lot to keep fighting and gave him a lot of extra strength. You did absolutely everything you could for Petrie and that devotion definitely contributed to his long life. He loved you as much as you loved him, and that strong loving bond you will forever share, helped him to cross over Rainbow Bridge in a peaceful, pain free way. 

Fly high and free over Rainbow Bridge darling Petrie. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear this news, you certainly did everything possible for him. Fly high sweet Petrie.:angel:


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm very sorry for your loss of Petrie.
You did everything in your power to help him and he was very fortunate to have spent his life with you. :hug:

I'm closing this thread and, when you're ready, you can post your tribute to Petrie in the "In Memory" section of the forum.*


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