# Pepper might have respiratory problems



## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Hey everybirdie! :wave: I wish I were posting in a different section. I believe that Pepper might have some sort of respiratory infection maybe. I can hear noises from his chest when he breathes. We're going to try to get him in tomorrow. Our normal vet, Dr. J, isn't there tomorrow, so I hope the other vet is there. Pretty sure there's another avian savvy vet at that practice.

I'm going to call tomorrow on my break at work to try to get him in. Is there anything I can do for him in the mean time?*


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Kristen! I'm sorry to hear about Pepper :upset:

I hope it's nothing major! :fingerx: 

In the meantime, you can put his cage near the shower to create steam, or put a dish of boiling water next to his cage and make a "tent" over both things to keep the steam in, etc. 

This should help him breathe a little easier while you wait for the vet to become available. 

I hope that the visit goes well, keep us posted!


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Thanks Star! I might take him in with me when I take a shower tonight. In his travel cage, of course!*


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Kristen, I'm sorry to hear Pepper is having a little respiratory problems. Prayers and healing vibes to him. I'll be looking for your updates.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Kristen,

I'm sure you've been a member of the forums long enough that you already know the following, but I will re-post it again for new members' benefit who may be reading your thread. 

To help with respiratory issues, you can put your budgie's cage in the bathroom when you run hot water through the shower so the cage is in the hot steamy air -- that will help open the airways.

Another option is to tent the cage with a sheet and place a pot or kettle of boiling water under the sheet where your budgie is unable to touch it and allow the steam to accumulate that way.

If you have pure eucalyptus oil, you can put one tiny drop into the water as that will also help to clear the airways so the budgie is better able to breathe.

Using a warm mist humidifier in the room with your budgies is a great way to help ease breathing problems.​
We'll be looking forward to your update on Pepper's condition after his Avian Vet appointment.

Best wishes!*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry to hear of Pepper's problem. Make sure the vet checks for air sac mites as well as any infection, air sac mites can also cause a bird to makes noises while breathing, hope all goes well.


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Hey everybirdie! So there isn't another avian vet at that practice, so we were forced to look elsewhere. I made an appointment this morning while I was at work at the one vet I really dislike, because I thought she was the only other avian vet in my area. There was another one that Dr. J's practice told me about, but I didn't bother with them at first because every time I call a place like that, they tell me they don't treat birds. Anyway, I got the appointment, and I when I told Lonny about it, he wasn't thrilled either. When I got out of work, I called the other one just for kicks, and sure enough they do treat birds. So I made that appointment for 4:00pm today, and then cancelled the other one. I hope this vet is better the the first one today. Gonna do some more research on this one. I hope he'll be ok. :upset:*


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Hey everybirdie! :wave: So we just got back from the vet about 20 minutes ago, and the boys are settling back in. The vet was super nice, although not QUITE as thorough overall as Dr. J. He checked his eyes, nares, and ears, of course. Checked for lumps and bumps, nothing there, thank God. Listened to his heart and lungs, and after all that he decided to give him some antibiotics. He prescribed Baytril, but I worry a little because he IS a new vet, and I know that Baytril can be dangerous if not dosed correctly. Has anyone ever had to use it on a fid that weighs 47-48g? I hope I'm not sounding paranoid, we just worry. We don't want to lose him to that with the problem being so simple.

The vet's is Dr. Stone, and he was very nice and kind to Pepper, who is currently going through a horrible molt. Him and his tech were very impressed by my ability to hold him. And also the fact that I weighed him myself at home. I guess not many bird owners are that on top of thing where I live. His tech said he looked good, which made me proud, and Pepper too since his molt is taking such a toll.

I'm going to e-mail Dr. J though and see if she agrees with the dose of Baytril. I think it's just going to take a few visits before I fully trust this guy.

One thing about the practice that really bothered me though was that they have a candle burning in the lobby on the front desk where you check in. I don't know why they would have that knowing that they treat birds, and how sensitive their lungs are.

Ok, I'll leave it there for now. Any advice on the dosage if possible would be wonderful!*


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*What dosage was prescribed? You didn't say.*


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Oh shoot, sorry. The dosage was 0.1ml 2x daily for a week.*


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*That should be fine.

When Shelby was on Baytril, he got 0.1ml 2x daily
for two full weeks and he only weighed 27 grams.

I wish Pepper a full and speedy recovery!*


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## ReneBC (Mar 26, 2016)

Fido was on the same dosage weighing in at 40 grams.
All 3 of us hopes it helps!


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Well Dr. J got back to me, and said that because it had a flavor syrup to dilute it, the dose should be fine. I gave him his first dose in parts tonight, and he was definitely not happy! Having pins all over his body isn't making it any fun, he bit me several times, which is fine because he's so uncomfortable. I had to drop it onto his top beak and let it roll into his mouth. I got that tip from a video from Dr. Ross Perry on YouTube. He absolutely would not be still long enough for me to feel comfortable enough to do it directly by mouth. Anyway, more updates to come as we make my boy well again.*


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Well wishes to Pepper! Get well soon little guy .


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Hey everybirdie! So Pepper's wings keep vibrating once in awhile, and we're not entirely sure why. Is there anything I can do for that? Does anyone know why his wings are vibrating from time to time?*


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Oook. So I took Pepper in today to see Dr. J, and we're lucky she likes us because today was her surgery day and she normally doesn't see patients today. Anyway, when she was out of surgery for the day, I was called and we took Pepper in. Dr. J was a breath of fresh air compared to the other guy. She has developed a relationship with me, and my birds, and for me, that's a must. So she gave him a thorough once over and listened to heart and lungs, and they sounded fine. I kind of expected that only because the thing that's wrong never seems to happen while we're at the vet. Towards the end of our visit, his wings started vibrating and she stopped to watch and listen (they are actually audible when they vibrate). I put him up to my ear, and heard that he was making the clicking/crunching/grinding type noise that he makes intermittently with his breaths. I let Dr. J take a listen and she was able to hear it. She ended up giving him .01ml of Ivermectin in office, for a small possibility of air sac mites. I'm not sure where he would have gotten them from, but ok. So after the Ivermectin dose, he won't need another drop for 2 weeks, which is great, because that means no more man handling him morning and night and stressing him and me out.

Another thing, Dr. J wasn't sure what would cause his wings to vibrate. Has anyone ever had any budgies with vibrating wings? It's quite odd and I'm sure a little bothersome to him. I would really appreciate any help regarding that.*


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Kristen, I'm glad that you were able to get in with Dr. J today. It's good that you don't have to get Pepper out twice a day anymore to medicate. I'm sure Pepper is glad too! 

About the vibrating wings... yes. I had one who developed the fast vibrating wings while standing on a perch. Like a hummingbird, very fast where you could audibly hear the wings going so fast they look like a blur. That was Pix, a budgie I got at the same time as my late Twigs. I had him before I joined here. The vets didn't know what caused it, but he had a ton of other irreparable things wrong too from bad genetics.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

One of my birds does the vibrating wings thing. This is a bird I got from a shelter a couple of years ago, he is a fairly timid guy and the vibrating seems to happen when he is nervous, or at least that is my take on it. I don't know what his life was like before I got him and it sometimes happens when I get too close to him. He will lift his wings very slightly and vibrate, usually only for less than a minute because when I see this happen I back away, assuming that it is me that is causing him to to this. Did Pepper vibrate before the recent vet visits, if not maybe he has become a bit anxious over it.
I have 2 canaries that had air sac mites, they had all sorts of odd breathing noises, they ended up needing injectable Ivermectin, 3 doses to clear it up completely. Hope Pepper is feeling well soon.


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## nickko (Feb 13, 2017)

The whole thing he is through is vary stressfull and that might be the cause of vibrating ( apart from cold , or dry environment ) ... once u catch him , he is so stressed that he stops doing this , usually when u put him back in his cage he will stand with close eyes and stretching too low in front vibrating and " loud " clicking noise ... thats a stress caused behaviour .. 

About the air sack mites , is something that a french surgery vet ( i dont know the word for someone who replace bones and checks dead birds to find what they had ) told me via e mail is too rare for a bird to have , he only had 2 birds ever that really had this problem and died from this .... though it is not impossible .. the ivermectin will kill em if so and he will feel better quickly if this was the cause .. 

For now i would recommend to try to let him relax and avoid stressfull situations , ( since the vet didnt find something to worry about and the next recheck for mites is in 10 days ) .. 
Sometimes good sleep , food and relaxation is all we need .. 
Hope all comes to normal soon ..

HelloWorld


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*


RavensGryf said:



Kristen, I'm glad that you were able to get in with Dr. J today. It's good that you don't have to get Pepper out twice a day anymore to medicate. I'm sure Pepper is glad too!

About the vibrating wings... yes. I had one who developed the fast vibrating wings while standing on a perch. Like a hummingbird, very fast where you could audibly hear the wings going so fast they look like a blur. That was Pix, a budgie I got at the same time as my late Twigs. I had him before I joined here. The vets didn't know what caused it, but he had a ton of other irreparable things wrong too from bad genetics.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's kind of a mystery. Was Pix ever stressed when he would vibrate? I'm just wondering if this vibration is a nervous tick he developed when he fell behind the dresser. The thing weighs like, a million pounds and is basically impossible to move, so it hasn't been cleaned behind since we moved in 9 years ago.



Cody said:



One of my birds does the vibrating wings thing. This is a bird I got from a shelter a couple of years ago, he is a fairly timid guy and the vibrating seems to happen when he is nervous, or at least that is my take on it. I don't know what his life was like before I got him and it sometimes happens when I get too close to him. He will lift his wings very slightly and vibrate, usually only for less than a minute because when I see this happen I back away, assuming that it is me that is causing him to to this. Did Pepper vibrate before the recent vet visits, if not maybe he has become a bit anxious over it.
I have 2 canaries that had air sac mites, they had all sorts of odd breathing noises, they ended up needing injectable Ivermectin, 3 doses to clear it up completely. Hope Pepper is feeling well soon.

Click to expand...

That's so weird, it seems like Pepper may be doing this out of stress also, but I can't be sure. This morning my other boys' cage spurred a night fright with the girls a little. Pepper and Peatri's cage was quiet, but we checked on the anyway. Pepper was crackling away with his breaths, and that got Lonny all freaked out. He hasn't really heard it that much. I took Peatri out to listen to him just to make sure he wasn't doing it now too, and he wasn't, so we're good there.



nickko said:



The whole thing he is through is vary stressfull and that might be the cause of vibrating ( apart from cold , or dry environment ) ... once u catch him , he is so stressed that he stops doing this , usually when u put him back in his cage he will stand with close eyes and stretching too low in front vibrating and " loud " clicking noise ... thats a stress caused behaviour ..

About the air sack mites , is something that a french surgery vet ( i dont know the word for someone who replace bones and checks dead birds to find what they had ) told me via e mail is too rare for a bird to have , he only had 2 birds ever that really had this problem and died from this .... though it is not impossible .. the ivermectin will kill em if so and he will feel better quickly if this was the cause ..

For now i would recommend to try to let him relax and avoid stressfull situations , ( since the vet didnt find something to worry about and the next recheck for mites is in 10 days ) .. 
Sometimes good sleep , food and relaxation is all we need .. 
Hope all comes to normal soon ..

HelloWorld

Click to expand...

Hello! :wave: Pepper doesn't stop vibrating just because of one reason or the other, however I do think it might be stressed related. About the air sac mites, I did speak to my vet while Pepper was being checked out and it's a possibility, a small one, but still possible. That's why she gave him the Ivermectin. She also said that we wouldn't see anything within the first few days of treatment. She said that if he eventually did respond to the Ivermectin, to bring him back in for another dose 14 days after the first. Hopefully we can keep him as low stressed as possible until this clears up. It helps nothing that he is 48g. So veggies all around!*


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Hey everybirdie! So it's been a week since we had Pepper in to see Dr. J and Pepper got his Ivermectin. I'm not sure if it's working or not. I feel like I should have seen some sort of improvement by now. I read something here in another thread about a possible crop infection paired with the whistling/crackling noise with his breathing? The only thing is, is that he isn't adjusting his crop very often. We're going to try the steam with eucalyptus oil in a bit. We didn't have the oil before, so maybe this will help?

Maybe someone has an opinion on what else this could be. Whistling/crackling sounds in the lungs, and vibrating wings every once in awhile or when stressed. Appetite is fine, and so is his water intake. Readily accepts the tiny amount of seed I give him. This morning when I weighed him, he was 48.8 grams, so he's pretty hefty. Any insight on what this could be would be amazing! Thanks so much in advance!*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I thought the same when my canaries had air sac mites, nothing seemed to change after the first treatment. If it is mites the first treatment is supposed to kill the mites but there still may be eggs so additional treatments are needed. Sometimes the vet can transilluminate the trachea and see the mites or sometimes they may appear on a tracheal swab, but sometimes they cannot be seen at all so diagnosis is by symptoms. With my canaries at first the vet treated it as an upper respiratory infection and when they did not respond they were treated for the air sac mites and that did the trick. My female canary had worse symptoms than my male she was wheezing and clicking and coughing, I felt really bad for her, but through it all she never was lethargic and her appetite was not effected.


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## HappiBudgie (Jan 17, 2017)

I hope poor Pepper gets better  :hug:


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Thank you so much, Cody! This makes me feel a bit better. I just feel so bad for him, crackling and whistling away. It seems like the whistling isn't all the time, but the crackling is. Hopefully I another week we'll see some kind of up swing.

How many treatments did your canaries have to get before they were better? And how did they get them? I'm so confused as to how Pepper even got them in the first place.*


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I do hope little Pepper will soon have a full recovery from the mites. :fingerx:

Air sac mites are transmitted by:

Close contact with an infected bird that may be sitting nearby and coughing or sneezing onto other birds releasing a tiny mist of moisture that contains the air sac mite that then infect nearby birds.

Contaminated drinking water

Free living mites in the environment.
The mite crawls onto the head of a perched bird, enters the trachea, travels to the lungs and lays its eggs.

It is very important that all of your birds that have been around Pepper be treated as well.
Ensure you carefully wash the water containers on a daily basis and ensure the water supply is fresh and clean.

Take a look at this article: www.finchniche.com/features_airsacmites.php*


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*Thanks Deb, that article was really cool to read. I have no idea where they would have come from initially, but if it is in fact this, they came from somewhere. I had no idea that birds had a set of lungs AND 9 air sacs. :wow: That's crazy! I think I'm going to maybe try what Cody was saying about a second treatment with the Ivermectin, and see how that goes. I'll have to show his response to Lonny and see what he thinks, but that's more than likely what we'll do.

Also, are we able to give Pepper and Peatri's cage calcium in their water, or ACV while Pepper's had the Ivermectin? Or would that be an overload on his system?*


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'd hold off on the calcium and ACV for two or three days after giving the Ivermectin treatment. 
After that you can start them up again.*


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*OK, sounds good. It's been a bit over a week since his initial treatment, and he hasn't gotten any more since. Thanks you!!!*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

jean20057 said:


> *Thank you so much, Cody! This makes me feel a bit better. I just feel so bad for him, crackling and whistling away. It seems like the whistling isn't all the time, but the crackling is. Hopefully I another week we'll see some kind of up swing.
> 
> How many treatments did your canaries have to get before they were better? And how did they get them? I'm so confused as to how Pepper even got them in the first place.*


I have no idea how they got them, I got the birds as a gift in Dec. 2015, they appeared perfectly healthy, I moved in June 2016 and the vet said perhaps they always had them and the stress of the move enabled them to take over so to speak. They needed 3 treatments and the vet used an injectable Ivermectin for them.


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Kristin, sorry I'm coming in late seeing this. It does seem unlikely to get air sac mites unless exposed to the outdoors somehow, but however they got it, I'm sure glad it was accurately diagnosed at this time and is all under control now ! Best wishes for a smooth recovery.


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*


Cody said:



I have no idea how they got them, I got the birds as a gift in Dec. 2015, they appeared perfectly healthy, I moved in June 2016 and the vet said perhaps they always had them and the stress of the move enabled them to take over so to speak. They needed 3 treatments and the vet used an injectable Ivermectin for them.

Click to expand...

Yeah, he's only had one dose, and it was by mouth. Is the injectable Ivermectin better? I have to call in tomorrow to see when I can take him in for a second dose, so will post about that when I find out.



RavensGryf said:



Kristin, sorry I'm coming in late seeing this. It does seem unlikely to get air sac mites unless exposed to the outdoors somehow, but however they got it, I'm sure glad it was accurately diagnosed at this time and is all under control now ! Best wishes for a smooth recovery.

Click to expand...

No problem, Julie, all good! Come to think of it, they have been outside, but for no more than half an hour, but that was last year. Plus all the trips to the vet for Peatri. But that begs the question, how does Peatri not have any symptoms? I just pray it wasn't anything that we did.

Update: Pepper seems to be doing ok, although his weight is still an issue. The low fat pellets it seems are not helping either. We do what we can for veggies and fruit everyday, but sometimes we can't find stuff that's not gross or moldy, or getting ready to rot. I'm not giving my flock sub par food. Just to be clear, they don't get fruit everyday, more like once in a while for that given the sugar content.

I can still hear the crackling, and every once in awhile the whistling. And he's still vibrating from time to time. Any ideas on how much eucalyptus oil to add to what I think is a 2-3qt pot of boiling water, for steam?

Also, I was wondering if they can have blood oranges? They have a much low acid level than regular oranges, so I don't see why not, but I wanted to make sure before I give them to the fids.*


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*2-3 drops of eucalyptus oil for 2-3 qts of boiling water is sufficient.

Yes, the flesh of blood oranges are fine, no seeds or peel.*


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