# Lung tissue and tumors



## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

Lucky and I went to a new vet today. About two days ago, his legs and feet became really weak all of the sudden, and he now has difficulty walking and climbing. His current weight is 30 g. The beginning of this year it was 33 g, during the fall it was 38 g, and in May 2015 it was 32 g. We've been through a lot of ups and downs this past year.

He has been very sleepy and likes to lie his whole body and head down while resting. He's been chewing on the cuttlebone and drinking water more than usual. When he does have energy, he sings, eats, and chews on his toys. It seems like even though he is eating properly, he might not be absorbing nutrients as well.

The vet took an x-ray of him and saw quite a bit of thick tissue where his lungs are located, so that's making it harder for him to breathe. He has some gout beginning to develop in his feet and legs, but doesn't seem to have any in his body at the moment. His gastrointestinal tract was empty. The vet thinks that there is a large tumor near his kidneys and genitals that is contributing to his leg weakness. The vet says it's not a good idea to get a blood sample to do further testing, since he is weak and underweight. He said injection of steroids may improve the tissue around the lungs and possibly shrink the tumors a bit, but there is a risk of damaging his kidneys, and the improvement will probably last for weeks before things go downhill again.

Right now, I think it is best not to do any invasive procedures until his weight and energy are back up. What is an ideal weight for him to be at?

I'm planning on adding probiotics to his water and trying to get him to eat more pellets and less seeds. I've been giving him boiled egg, adding milk thistle/dandelion extract to his water almost every day, and using apple cider vinegar once in a while as well. I just bought a vitamin/mineral supplement I can add on occasion, so hopefully it can help him absorb nutrients. He'll be eating more dandelion now that it is spring.

It's heartbreaking to see a pet you grew up with in deteriorating condition.  He's a senior budgie, so it's to be expected that his health won't be what it used to be, but it doesn't make it easier to accept that. I hope he can fight on and be healthier again!

If you guys have any natural remedies to improve these issues, advice on what to try or do differently, or have recommendations for flat perches, I'm all ears. Thank you guys for the support and insight over the past year!


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm so sorry about your sweet budgie.you can use gnotgrass to help reduce swelling and it works great.they can eat all they want.it has helped some other budgies recently.Sending healing and comforting prayers for your budgie.please keep us posted.also you can make a small ramp wher3 it can be attached to the bottom perch.make the perch flat about 4inches wide.and put soft cloth on the bottom incase it falls.I'm sure someone will have some wonderful ideas to help as well.blessings.we're here if you need us......p.s. I think you're doing a good thing wanting to help him.I truly hope soon he can recover as best as it can.


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm really sorry about Lucky. I hope he's better soon.
My budgie has a kidney tumor. 
I added the knotgrass to my budgie diet. I also added vinegar with the mother. 
My granddaughter and I work with him daily. He's able to use his right foot now!
He's back to playing and talking.

The knotgrass does help. 
http://talkbudgies.com/diseases-illnesses/340890-alternative-remedies-help-tumors.html


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear about Lucky's deteriorating condition  

I know you're doing a wonderful job with him and are helping him to feel as comfortable as possible. Pegg and Shane have offered good advise regarding alternative treatments that might help little Lucky to feel better. 

Keep us posted on his condition! I hope things get better for him soon. :fingerx:


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I hope Lucky is up and feeling better soon!
Here's the link for vinegar with the mother
http://talkbudgies.com/articles-holistic-natural-remedies/103936-apple-cider-vinegar.html


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## Creed (Apr 10, 2016)

I'm so very sorry to hear this 

Lucky sure is lucky to have you there for him though .

I give you my best wishes for the healing of little Lucky. 

Keep us updated, we are here for you guys!


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## bluewing (Feb 6, 2016)

Aw geez, *pocketbudgie*, I am so sorry to hear that Lucky is not doing so well. Hang in there, I know it isn't easy watching your little guy go through a difficult time. :hug:

Members here have offered you well wishes and a holistic avenue you may want to try at this time with introducing knotgrass which I believe is available as a dried herb online and in health food stores. Some who have used it say it has made a significant difference. It may not be a cure but it may just be preventative and give your budgie a bit more time to hang out and have fun with you and his buddies. And, it doesn't hurt and they can eat as much as they want.

So, since you are under the care of an Avian vet, I am going to offer some thoughts on a couple of things. Let's start with introducing pellets or changing from seed to pellets. At this point, the safe thing to do is maintain his seed diet and slowly introduce pellets. I recommend for sick or older birds Harrison's Mash -- it is full of what they need and easy to eat and on the digestive system. Try to see if you can find Harrison's Bird Pellets -- Mash or the High Potency Superfine for small birds. Depending on whether your budgie will eat pellets or not, they usually still can be fussy around small pellets. Mine are and they still prefer that I crush their pellets in a bowl because, you know, they are so fussy :whatever: which is why I recommend either the mash or high potency superfine form.

What I usually do is still maintain the seed in their dish, Hagens regular and gourmet mixed together, then I add a couple of tablespoons of semi-crushed Harrison's to give it a bit of mash like consistency. I sprinkle a heaping amount on top and then, on top of that, I sprinkle a small helping of dried greens or herbs. That usually does it for my birds, but, most importantly, you want to make sure you are not taking away a source of food when they may not be eating full pellets.

If you are not going to use Harrison's or can't get it for some reason, although most all avian vets will carry it or order it in for you, and you want to try something else, it is still important to mash it up well. It is just easier for a bird in Lucky's condition to eat and digest it. Monitor the food as you go along making sure he is eating.

Like anything, you are doing the best you can and trying some new things, but even new things have to be done in moderation. For example, make sure you have done your research on milk thistle and dandelion extract. Both good products and useful, however, always in moderation and you want to make sure they wouldn't cancel each other out. For example, and this is a generalization, raw organic spinach and broccoli are calcium binding which is why hens should eat very little when they are in egg production. They need their calcium so that eggs are healthy, mature, and reduces egg-binding fatalities.

Your budgie's body is going through ups and downs. Apple cider vinegar is a great way to get the gut balance in check so every once in awhile is fine. You definitely want to maintain his vitamin levels as much as you can, having vitamins and minerals available to him in his water or on wet greens only and only if he is able to eat any greens at this time. Seeing as how he likes his egg food, that's a good opportunity to sprinkle a bit of V and M on it.

As far as probiotics are concerned, I've never tried it, but normally, and it is my understanding, that it is often used shortly after antibiotic treatment. It won't hurt your budgie, but if you are using apple cider vinegar, V and M, extracts and alternative pellets with seed while introducing as much fresh soft organic veggies or fruit, I think what you are doing is more than enough to give Lucky a healthier and hopefully happier outcome. And perhaps focus on introducing the knotgrass instead of the probiotic as suggested by other members.

Good luck to Lucky and do the best you can as it seems like you are already and definitely keep us posted. I am hoping for the best despite his condition.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm so sorry that little Lucky is having so many problems. :hug:
I would definitely recommend using the ACV and knotgrass.

Pegg and bluewing have both offered you good advice.

Windy City Parrots has some nice platform perches you could consider for little Lucky.

Prevue Pet Shelf Perch | Shelf Perch for Handicapped birds

Flat Manzanita Perches help birds feet rest comfortably

Please be sure to keep us updated on Lucky's condition.
I'm sending healing energy, positive thoughts and many prayers for your little fellow. :hug:*


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

Thank you guys for the advice and support. Lucky was still a bit sleepy today, but he is in pretty good spirits and determined not to let anything hamper his mobility. He is currently scurrying around on the floor and flapping a bit to help take the weight off his legs while he moves around.



shanebudgie said:


> I'm so sorry about your sweet budgie.you can use gnotgrass to help reduce swelling and it works great.they can eat all they want.it has helped some other budgies recently.Sending healing and comforting prayers for your budgie.please keep us posted.also you can make a small ramp wher3 it can be attached to the bottom perch.make the perch flat about 4inches wide.and put soft cloth on the bottom incase it falls.I'm sure someone will have some wonderful ideas to help as well.blessings.we're here if you need us......p.s. I think you're doing a good thing wanting to help him.I truly hope soon he can recover as best as it can.





Pegg said:


> I'm really sorry about Lucky. I hope he's better soon.
> My budgie has a kidney tumor.
> I added the knotgrass to my budgie diet. I also added vinegar with the mother.
> My granddaughter and I work with him daily. He's able to use his right foot now!
> ...


Oh my goodness, I wish I heard about knotgrass earlier! Definitely going to get some for him.



bluewing said:


> Aw geez, *pocketbudgie*, I am so sorry to hear that Lucky is not doing so well. Hang in there, I know it isn't easy watching your little guy go through a difficult time. :hug:
> 
> Members here have offered you well wishes and a holistic avenue you may want to try at this time with introducing knotgrass which I believe is available as a dried herb online and in health food stores. Some who have used it say it has made a significant difference. It may not be a cure but it may just be preventative and give your budgie a bit more time to hang out and have fun with you and his buddies. And, it doesn't hurt and they can eat as much as they want.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed answers!  Definitely going to try the knotgrass. I currently have Harrison's High Potency Superfine and he willingly eats it from time to time, but still eats more seeds than he should, so I'll try crushing the pellets and putting them in the seeds like how you do. Can't be too picky when you're trying to recover!

Lucky had been on antibiotics in the past and the vet recommended probiotics, so maybe I'll add some to the water every other week and keep doing ACV once a week. I hope he'll be happy to have his own personal chef! :biggrin1:



FaeryBee said:


> *I'm so sorry that little Lucky is having so many problems. :hug:
> I would definitely recommend using the ACV and knotgrass.
> 
> Pegg and bluewing have both offered you good advice.
> ...


 Thanks, those perches look comfortable! It's too bad they're not self-cleaning, someone needs to invent a smart-perch that does that someday!


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## bluewing (Feb 6, 2016)

pocketbudgie said:


> Thanks for the detailed answers!  Definitely going to try the knotgrass. I currently have Harrison's High Potency Superfine and he willingly eats it from time to time, but still eats more seeds than he should, so I'll try crushing the pellets and putting them in the seeds like how you do. Can't be too picky when you're trying to recover!


Just be sure to add the crushed pellets on the top of her seeds...sprinkled or a generous mound of pellet mash to get her started. Don't mix it around and in with the seed. You want her to work for her seed by having to eat and work through the mashed pellets so that is the first thing to attract her. A few dried herbs or dried bird greens on top of that might really delight her, or add the knotgrass on top to as her herb greens to get her excited about that too.

Monitor what she eats and for every helping, give her her seeds but don't fill it too much so that once she starts pecking through her dish, she will have to eat her mash, too.

Happy budgie trails! I am rooting for the both of you and good luck with your treatment plan. You are doing great! 

By the way, Lucky is a beautiful and strong little budgie. He is doing his best to still stay strong and get around. All the best to this little guy!


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I go by this list when feeding Banana. 
I stay away from the herbs that have ** asterisk symbols. Because I feel his immune system is low right now and the oils in these may hurt his crop & digestive tact.

http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/338818-safe-foods-budgies.html


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*


pocketbudgie said:



Thank you guys for the advice and support. Lucky was still a bit sleepy today, but he is in pretty good spirits and determined not to let anything hamper his mobility. He is currently scurrying around on the floor and flapping a bit to help take the weight off his legs while he moves around.

 Thanks, those perches look comfortable! It's too bad they're not self-cleaning, someone needs to invent a smart-perch that does that someday!

Click to expand...

The nice thing about the wood platform perches is they are really easy to clean by simply wiping them with white vinegar and then sanding them lightly to remove any lingering stains. *


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

Lucky has been singing all day.  He is still a happy bird despite his circumstances. He seems to fly-hop from perch to perch since it's easier than climbing.

I have 3 flat perches in the cage now, so he'll have places to rest everywhere.

The good new is that I got the knotgrass in the mail! I'm going to try out Pegg's recipe and hopefully he and Blueberry will both like it.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm glad to hear sweet little Lucky is still a happy fellow.
It's good you have perches where he can easily rest when necessary.

Please let us know if the knotgrass seems to help Lucky. I'm keeping him in my prayers.*


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I hope the knotgrass helps like it's helping Banana. 
Prayers for a fast and speedy recovery!


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

hope the gnotgrass will really help him recover very soon.praying for him always.Blessings.its going to be alright lucky my sweet little friend.:albino:


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

How's Lucky doing?
I'm hoping the knotgrass is helping.


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

Pegg said:


> How's Lucky doing?
> I'm hoping the knotgrass is helping.


Yes, I think the knotgrass is starting to help. On Thursday, he was pretty active throughout the day. He has improved energy and sings more, but still has a hard time with his legs. Droppings are slightly better. I wasn't able to observe him for too long on Friday or today because of work, so I hope I can watch him more tomorrow.

Right now, the only way I can get him to eat pellets is by grinding it and sprinkling it on his seeds. He doesn't seem interested in eating the knotgrass itself (even the small pieces ground with a pepper mill) so I want to find a tool to grind it into a fine powder to sprinkle on his food. At least he is getting it through tea and the seeds soaked in it.


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm glad your starting to see some improvement!

Something that really helps Banana is my granddaughter and I do therapy with him. 
At first we use our finger and would set him on it because there was no movement in his foot. We worked with him two and three times a day. Just a few minutes at a time.
When he started getting movement back in his foot we started using perches.
We have different widths of perches. I cut branches from my dogwood tree and made the perches. We do the step up and start with his right foot. He's play center is set up with different size perches. A ladder to work on his climbing. I've made it as a therapy area for him. 
He enjoys playing on it and at the same time he's using his right foot more. 

Chamomile tea baths are really helps him feel good.


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

I weighed Lucky and it looks like he has gained back 3 grams, so that's good news. He seems a bit more energetic and is able to step up but he still has a hard time clenching his claws.



Pegg said:


> I'm glad your starting to see some improvement!
> 
> Something that really helps Banana is my granddaughter and I do therapy with him.
> At first we use our finger and would set him on it because there was no movement in his foot. We worked with him two and three times a day. Just a few minutes at a time.
> ...


When you do therapy, do you just make Banana step up and step down or do you also do other exercises?


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm so glad lucky is doing better and getting his weight back.always praying for our little budgie friends.blessings and thank you for the update on lucky.its gonna be alright little buddy.:albino:


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

pocketbudgie said:


> I weighed Lucky and it looks like he has gained back 3 grams, so that's good news. He seems a bit more energetic and is able to step up but he still has a hard time clenching his claws.
> 
> When you do therapy, do you just make Banana step up and step down or do you also do other exercises?


I'm glad Lucky is getting better. I was so excited when Banana started putting his weight back on. 
That's basically what we do step up and down. At first we had to set him on the perches. He wasn't able to move his foot at all. It took a few weeks before he had enough movement in his foot to really balance without falling.
I hope this helps.


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

This morning, Lucky was moving all over the cage. He even managed to climb on the cage bars (but had to be helped down). I'm not sure if he was climbing because his feet were gripping the bars or if it was just his claws acting as hooks while he moved. I *think* his leg strength may have improved. We'll see!

I got my new spice mills. They are able to grind the knotgrass into much finer particles than before so it'll be easier for him to eat.

Yesterday, he was being a very good bird and had a craving for pellets! He ate straight out of the pellet dish... I keep telling him "Eat your pellets!" and he seemed to have listened to my advice.


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

It sounds like Lucky is improving!!! 
On the vertical sides of Banana cage I placed popsicle sticks and spaced them like a ladder. It really helped. On the horizontal sides I have the perches, cuttlebone and toys set up at the spots that seemed to give him problems. I also took the tops off his food cups because he had problems trying to get food. 
Lucky you :urock:


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm so very glad he's doing better.I think he's going to be alright soon.I have to say the gnotgrass and other have helped so many budgies before.I know its not a cure all,but it sure really helps a lot.I'm so happy now that lucky and banana have made remarkable improvements.blessings and keep us posted.:albino:


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

shanebudgie said:


> I'm so very glad he's doing better.I think he's going to be alright soon.I have to say the gnotgrass and other have helped so many budgies before.I know its not a cure all,but it sure really helps a lot.I'm so happy now that lucky and banana have made remarkable improvements.blessings and keep us posted.:albino:


I agree with you it's not a care all, but it is one of the best supplement for a budgie there is!!! It's really made a difference in Banana. Banana will always have knotgrass as part of his diet.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm so glad Lucky is doing better! :clap: That's great to hear  

Lucky is such a strong little boy!


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

:/ Well, it looks like the improvement in his legs was short-lived. The gout crystals in his right foot seemed to have grown more, so he's having a hard time climbing again. I'm not sure what to do right now, maybe continue to get his weight up a bit more and if he's feeling much better, bring him to the vet for testing and treatment.

I'm doing research on gout right now and saw something about burdock root and black cherry juice being potentially helpful. There was also something about taking away the cuttlebone if he receives a certain medication in case it interferes.


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

Oh no I'm so sorry.I know you're doing the best you can do for lucky.I truly hope he will get much better soon.sending lucky healing and comforting prayers.I hope the vet can give him medicine to help him.blessings and keep us posted.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

There are injections that the vet can give for gout, has that been tried? Also I think that with gout a low protein diet may be advised, check with your vet if this has not already been addressed, hope Lucky feels better soon.


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

Cody said:


> There are injections that the vet can give for gout, has that been tried? Also I think that with gout a low protein diet may be advised, check with your vet if this has not already been addressed, hope Lucky feels better soon.


No, we haven't done injections yet. Last time, the vet wanted to get Lucky's weight up and improve his condition more before attempting to take a blood sample or any procedures that might put him under a lot of stress.


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm so sorry about the setback with Lucky. 
Hopefully the supplement will help.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear that Lucky has had a recurrence of his gout  

I'm praying that the injection helps clear it up and he's able to continue recovering :fingerx:

Keep us posted!


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

I talked this over with my family, and my parents and grandparents said it won't be a good idea for him to get injections. They said that if they were in Lucky's position, they would not want to be put under the stress of medical procedures that might or might not work, and may make him weaker. I'm really scared. If he's that old, how likely are the testing and injections going to put his life in danger?


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm really sorry about Lucky. I would make a list of questions and call the vet and ask him. Your vet has been treating Lucky so he will know what's best for Lucky.
He will know if Lucky is strong enough for treatment.


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## shanebudgie (Feb 5, 2016)

I'll be praying for lucky tonight in my prayers.I sincerely hope he will recover from all this.sending you comforting prayers as well for you.we're here for you if you need us.blessings


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear about this! 

I agree with Pegg that you should talk to the vet about the risks, benefits, and consequences of each procedure. Perhaps you can opt to do the less risky ones (i.e if one injection is better than two) to try and combat his illness? 

I'm wishing you and Lucky all the best and keeping you both in my prayers ray: 

Stay strong, I'm hoping for a positive outcome :fingerx:


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

How is Lucky? 
I've been thinking about him. I hope he's doing better. 
He reminds me so much of Banana. I know how hard it is for you.
Sending you healing thoughts and prayers.


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

Pegg said:


> How is Lucky?
> I've been thinking about him. I hope he's doing better.
> He reminds me so much of Banana. I know how hard it is for you.
> Sending you healing thoughts and prayers.


Thank you, he is being a brave bird! We went to the vet and he took a look at Lucky's foot again. He thinks there may be a possibility that it is pus. He took a sample of it to test for gout and bacteria and prescribed antibiotics and antifungal medicine to be used if the test result indicates that it is an infection. If it is gout, he'll most likely prescribe colchicine. Lucky is a bit tired and grumpy from the ordeal, so I gave him a small piece of millet spray to cheer him up.

Oh, and happy belated birthday to Banana!  Maybe he and Lucky should have a knotgrass tea party someday, haha.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Blessings to little Lucky.
Sending lots of healing energy, positive thoughts and prayers for your boy. :hug: :hug:*


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

pocketbudgie said:


> Thank you, he is being a brave bird! We went to the vet and he took a look at Lucky's foot again. He thinks there may be a possibility that it is pus. He took a sample of it to test for gout and bacteria and prescribed antibiotics and antifungal medicine to be used if the test result indicates that it is an infection. If it is gout, he'll most likely prescribe colchicine. Lucky is a bit tired and grumpy from the ordeal, so I gave him a small piece of millet spray to cheer him up.
> 
> Oh, and happy belated birthday to Banana!  Maybe he and Lucky should have a knotgrass tea party someday, haha.


Hopefully antibiotic will help Lucky get back to his happy chirpy self!
I'm think Lucky and Banana deserve a great big knotgrass tea pretty!
They both are brave little fighters!!!
arty2:arty:


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

The vet called and said that Lucky has staphylococcus bacteria in his sample. I'm still waiting to hear back on the fungi and gout testing. In the mean time, the vet has prescribed doxycycline and fluconazole for 21 days. He really HATES taking his medicine and will fly away when he sees me reaching for the bottles and feeding syringes!

The past couple of days, he started resting on the newspaper at the bottom of the cage. He likes shredding it, and I try to get him to stop in case he ingests ink. Maybe it's easier on his feet because it's softer than the wooden perches.  He's been grumpy because of the meds and I just hope he will get better... I miss his singing.


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm sorry Lucky is still having problems 
Hopefully the fungi and gout test will be negative.
Prayers for fast recovery.
Get well soon Lucky!


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Poor baby! :upset: I really hope that little Lucky will improve soon. It sounds like you're doing all you can to ensure he gets better! 

Please keep us posted! :fingerx:


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## pocketbudgie (Jul 3, 2015)

The vet just called. He tested negative for fungi, but there were uric acid crystals in his sample so the vet will prescribe some colchicine for the gout. His foot has improved a little bit from the doxycycline and he's busy shredding his toys right now.


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## Pegg (Jun 7, 2011)

That's awesome! Hopefully the coaching will have Lucky back to normal soon!!!
He's really a little fighter!
Banana and I are sending lots of get well wishes!


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm glad he's doing a bit better and is still an active and playful boy! 

Thanks for the update and I hope the new medicine helps him :fingerx:


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