# Dali’s Ongoing Training Journal and Q & A thread.



## Ianatore

Hello,

The title pretty much says it all. I adopted a budgie 11 days ago, a 6 months old female from a breeder. However, I think that she hasn't been hand fed or haven't been in interaction with hands other than to grab her and put her in the box.

I put her cage next to my desk in my bedroom where I am most of the time (I study mathematics and am a TA). I did read a lot about how to gain trust and bond but despite the many differences, all of them are based on the fact that budgies love millet. However, my budgie just doesn't really eat millet. If I stay very still holding the millet at one end so that my hand is just outside of the cage, she will eventually take some bites after like 15 minutes of just looking around and even closing her eyes.

So, I tried to leave a branch in the cage next to her perch so she eats it and realise she likes it but she just leave it there. She talks a little from time to time but most of the time she just stay there perched. I even leave the cage door opened and put her seed cup next to the entrance of the cage. She will go eat some with the door opened but wont go outside the cage.

I talk to her, sing a bit, put relaxing music and even read to her. I know that 10 days is not a lot but I read all of the articles that says after a week or even a day the budgie should start moving and playing and she doesn't really play or move that much hence I am a little worried.

So, that being said, here are my questions (I am also opened to any suggestions or things I might be doing wrong)

-Should I buy a bigger cage? The one she's in right now is 24x24x24 inches
-What other treat could I use beside millet if she doesn't like it
-Should I move the cage sometimes or just leave it there for now?

In other words, I would like her to see me not as a threat so she can start moving around and having some mental stimulation and be happier because I really feel bad watching her in her perch. She seems to be relaxed sometimes for example she falls asleep next to me if I'm reading or not moving too much. She stretches and sometimes do that thing where she puffs her feathers and kind of shake and she beaks grind at night. 

Also, I worked in a ranch with horses for many years and also in a dog rescue shelter as a trainer so I'm used to scared animals however birds I have 0 experience this is all very very new to me!

So, this is it. I am sorry for my English my first language is French and thank you!


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## vrabec

Hi there: 
Give it time with the bird and millet, and perhaps leave small bits in the cage without your hand there for several days, let her discover it for herself. Birds require a lot of patience (a lot). Mine took a couple weeks before he discovered millet. 

Cage size information: Cage sizes.

There are many forum stickies here that are very helpful, especially on approaching the bird the first few weeks, nutrition, overall health etc. Hopefully one of the mods will see this thread and comment on cage size and your other questions. 

What's your budgie's name?


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## Ianatore

vrabec said:


> Hi there:
> Give it time with the bird and millet, and perhaps leave small bits in the cage without your hand there for several days, let her discover it for herself. Birds require a lot of patience (a lot). Mine took a couple weeks before he discovered millet.
> 
> Cage size information: Cage sizes.
> 
> There are many forum stickies here that are very helpful, especially on approaching the bird the first few weeks, nutrition, overall health etc. Hopefully one of the mods will see this thread and comment on cage size and your other questions.
> 
> What's your budgie's name?


Hello,

Thank you for the advices. Her name is Dalie (didnt know she was a female for a week and just kept on calling her Dali afterwards haha). She seems to be very on her guard with me. She ate millet once or twice but mostly she stays on her highest perch and sleeps. Sometimes if I leave the room she'll do those kind of short calls (don't know how to call the sound haha). Also her wings are not clipped and I read that its gonna be much harder to tame. I'm pretty much always in the same room as her.

She came out of her cage twice this morning on her own then flew in circle and then finally landed next to her cage (on my drawer that I never use). I don't know if its good to let your budgie out if she's not hand tame but I have been able to make her hop on a stick and put her back in the cage. I think I should just leave her alone for some time and allow her to be curious on her own time. 

I just read so many articles about how you should interact with your budgie on day one and how it should love millet and just be tamed in a week if you do it right. I don't really know if it's true for pet that haven't been hand fed and without clipped wings. 

I guess I will just try to leave her alone it just breaks my heart to see her never having exercises or playing maybe she still need lots of sleep because she's young or maybe she just is wild. She is scared to death of her toys so I took them out because if she flew into one she would start screaming.

I guess I just hope there would be some kind of documentation that would be legit and took account for the birds that are not instantly in love with millet haha.

Anyhow, thank you for the advice I'll wait for her to be curious more than scared. (I read to her every night to sleep so she can associate my voice with relaxation haha).


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## vrabec

It will take time, just continue to be patient, take it very slow, and don't try to rush anything. Don't be discouraged, either. Dalie will discover the millet  It sounds like what you are doing is good, just let her learn and discover on her own and she will figure out to trust you. You are lucky she hops onto a perch and lets you return her to her cage. The only thing is be careful of rushing things.. based on the info here at this forum, the general approach to new budgies is to let them settle in for about two weeks in their cage before changing up things. This will of course, vary bird to bird, depending on where they came from - everything from spicy pigeon and budgiefan16 who have hand-raised chicks that are already talking, or me who found a "wild" one and had to stuff him with antibiotics for 7 weeks.

Keep us posted on her progress!


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## FaeryBee

*Hi, Welcome to Talk Budgies!

The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
*Locating an Avian Veterinarian*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
(Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)*

*These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*

*SITE GUIDELINES*
*Posting on the Forums*
*Let's Talk Budgies!*
*FAQ*
*Articles*
*Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
*Avian First Aid*
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*A Heartfelt Plea to All Members*
*Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*
*Dangers to Pet Birds*
*Resource Directory*


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## Ianatore

So Dali is now eating a lot of millet. Took a while but she ended up eating it while I was holding the spray by the other end. It's been 3 weeks and she's not very talkative. I try to talk to her as often as I can while I'm working. I still read to her 30 min every night (lol) to the point where as soon as I put the cage cover (I only cover 2 sides and the top and half of the front), she moves to the side of her perch where its not covered, so I guess she likes it.

I'm not a very loud or talkative person in general so I find it hard to be convincing when I talk to her. Anyhow, right now what concerns me is the fact that she still doesn't really move around in her cage. She mostly stays on her highest perch (which is a dowel perch, I know it shouldn't be she doesnt want to go out of her cage at all I keep the door opened all day long she left for like 5 seconds twice in a week). 

So I would like to take her out to change perch setting (I just received some natural perches). However, I can't get her out and I don't want to freak her out by moving her favorite perch. Is it okay to move perches like that or will it freak her out? Her cage is not that big so I can't just add perches and also I would like to get rid of the higher dowel perch even tho its her favorite, should I?


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## vrabec

Hi!
That's awesome she's now interested in millet! Just take your time with it, everything at her pace. Same with singing and movement and everything, she will eventually warm up. Some birds will do so more quickly, and others will take a long, long time. The key to remember is that birds are not like dogs or cats, which will can be much more quick to gain confidence and befriend the humans.

Rearranging the cage.. tough call. I think the more experienced members should weigh in on it. If it were me, I might be impatient enough to just do it, but do it quick and decisively. Then again, you are making progress with her, so maybe give it another couple weeks with millet treats and maybe a hand-held perch, so both of you can build confidence in letting her out of and returning to the cage.

By the way, I just had another thought. It would be a good idea to seek out an Avian Vet as @FaeryBee has pointed out, and at minimum, get a wellness check. Especially if she's poofed up or lethargic. Birds tend to hide any other symptoms.


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## StarlingWings

Hello and welcome to the forums!

It's great to have you with us and FaeryBee has given you great advice and resources above.

With regards to rearranging the cage, the reason its her favorite perch is because of the location, not the material, so when the time comes you can just put a natural wood perch up there instead of the dowel. Since she's so fearful right now I think it's best to leave the cage as it is for a few more weeks since even very "tame" budgies generally are bothered by cage rearrangements (since you're touching "their" stuff, hah) so it would probably stress her out a bit. 

I'm glad she loves millet now, however keep in mind it is very high in fat and lower in other nutrients than her normal food so should be given as a treat only. 

Just so you know, the articles you read are false. Every budgie is different and on top of that all birds need two weeks at least to settle in before you should try and interact with them other than talking through the cage bars. Some budgies take months or years to fully feel bonded with their human "flocks" but this doesn't mean that it isn't going to happen. The internet wants to make people believe there are instant solutions to everything but the truth is that with regard to birds especially trying to rush the process or force yourself on the bird is going to lead to birds who act "submissive" and not "tame". 

Clipping wings for the sole reason of preventing a bird from getting away from you is like tying down any other animal and essentially giving them no other choice but to submit to whatever you are making them do. Unfortunately many misguided budgie owners still think this is what makes a bird "tame". Like with all animals, taming is about trust, love, and mutual respect, and as in human relationships, comes with time and patience. 

So the best thing you can do is take it slow with your little lady. Just wait for her to do things at her own pace. Its not a crisis if she doesn't want to come out of her cage; it's her safe space and she likes it in there. Eventually she may want to come out more and eventually she may not, giving her the option is what's important. You can put a few perches on the outside of the cage too to give her someplace comfortable to sit if she decides to come out. 

Be sure to ask if you have any questions after reading through the resources linked by FaeryBee above. 

Best of luck and keep us posted! 

Cheers 👋


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## FaeryBee

*I'd love for you to get a larger sized cage for Dalie when you are able to do so.
The bigger the cage, the better. Length is more important than Height as budgies fly laterally.
Ensure the spacing between the bars is no more than 1/2".

Would you be so kind as to post a picture of her and her cage?

If Dalie is afraid of her toys, then put them near her cage (within her sight line) for a few days.
After that, hang a few of them on the OUTSIDE of the cage for a few days so she can see they will not hurt her.

After she gets used to seeing them on the outside of the cage, you can introduce them (one at a time) slowly into the cage.

Be patient with her and be sure to update us on her progress!
Best wishes.*


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## Ianatore

Hello,

Thanks to everyone for your advices it is really helpful!

I am lucky to have a cousin who is an avian vet so she came by to see her and she says she seems to be healthy.

As for the cage, I do know that it is too small. I wasn't there for the choosing of the cage. I did try to add a natural perch I bought but the cage is just too small and she was freaking out by it.

I have the budget for a bigger cage only, I don't know if she would just freak out to be in a new cage even if on the long run I know it is just better. My mom went for the cage and the budgie (with good intentions). So here is the cage with a bic pen for scale:
















And here are the perches I got (from amazon, since the pet shops around my appartement which is near an university are not incredible) and also the natural perches are too big for the cage. So I'm guessing a new cage would be necessary but is she gonna be even more fearful of everything if I do this transition?
















Thanks again for all the advices I really appreciate it!


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## FaeryBee

*It’s best to do the transition. She will adjust and be better off in the long run. 

If you direct message me with you budget, I can help you research for the best cage to get her. 

By the way, does your Mom have the receipt for the cage? 
If you carefully clean it, certain pet stores will accept the cage if you return it to where it was purchased. (I’ve returned cages to pet stores in the US)*


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## Ianatore

Hello, 

The new cage arrived today. I just finished setting it up(more perches are coming soon) but is this a good layout of the perches?










Also, how could I introduce her the new cage without a total trauma?

Thanks again!


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## srirachaseahawk

Ianatore said:


> Hello,
> 
> The new cage arrived today. I just finished setting it up(more perches are coming soon) but is this a good layout of the perches?
> 
> View attachment 261109
> 
> 
> Also, how could I introduce her the new cage without a total trauma?
> 
> Thanks again!



For the layout in a cage like this, I would attach the perches to the front and the back of the cage and give her a lot of "empty" space in the middle (maybe leave one in the middle for her to get used to short trips on and then see how she does). This will be her glide path when she flies, so you don't need to block it with anything.

Ditch the long wooden perch there and put some paper towel or ink-free packing paper on the cage floor. You can sprinkle some seed on it to encourage her to forage a bit!


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## Ianatore

Thank you I did that and yeah it makes sense. I opened both cages and she eventually flew into the other one. 

Now with my other question haha. Since I did change her cage I was also thinking about moving it, because right now she is right next to my bed. I have a free wall that is in front of my bed like the most far away place and also next to my workdesk. So would it be a better place knowing I have a small shelf above the place I would put her? 

And finally, should I put.my desk so my profile faces her or my back ?(since I leave cage door opened all day long but she doesnt come out, I was thinking maybe if she didnt see my face she would be more willing). Also, she would be away from my bed which will maybe make her sleep better.


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## Zakiyathebudgie

Ianatore said:


> Thank you I did that and yeah it makes sense. I opened both cages and she eventually flew into the other one.
> 
> Now with my other question haha. Since I did change her cage I was also thinking about moving it, because right now she is right next to my bed. I have a free wall that is in front of my bed like the most far away place and also next to my workdesk. So would it be a better place knowing I have a small shelf above the place I would put her?
> 
> And finally, should I put.my desk so my profile faces her or my back ?(since I leave cage door opened all day long but she doesnt come out, I was thinking maybe if she didnt see my face she would be more willing). Also, she would be away from my bed which will maybe make her sleep better.





StarlingWings said:


> Hello and welcome to the forums!
> 
> It's great to have you with us and FaeryBee has given you great advice and resources above.
> 
> With regards to rearranging the cage, the reason its her favorite perch is because of the location, not the material, so when the time comes you can just put a natural wood perch up there instead of the dowel. Since she's so fearful right now I think it's best to leave the cage as it is for a few more weeks since even very "tame" budgies generally are bothered by cage rearrangements (since you're touching "their" stuff, hah) so it would probably stress her out a bit.
> 
> I'm glad she loves millet now, however keep in mind it is very high in fat and lower in other nutrients than her normal food so should be given as a treat only.
> 
> Just so you know, the articles you read are false. Every budgie is different and on top of that all birds need two weeks at least to settle in before you should try and interact with them other than talking through the cage bars. Some budgies take months or years to fully feel bonded with their human "flocks" but this doesn't mean that it isn't going to happen. The internet wants to make people believe there are instant solutions to everything but the truth is that with regard to birds especially trying to rush the process or force yourself on the bird is going to lead to birds who act "submissive" and not "tame".
> 
> Clipping wings for the sole reason of preventing a bird from getting away from you is like tying down any other animal and essentially giving them no other choice but to submit to whatever you are making them do. Unfortunately many misguided budgie owners still think this is what makes a bird "tame". Like with all animals, taming is about trust, love, and mutual respect, and as in human relationships, comes with time and patience.
> 
> So the best thing you can do is take it slow with your little lady. Just wait for her to do things at her own pace. Its not a crisis if she doesn't want to come out of her cage; it's her safe space and she likes it in there. Eventually she may want to come out more and eventually she may not, giving her the option is what's important. You can put a few perches on the outside of the cage too to give her someplace comfortable to sit if she decides to come out.
> 
> Be sure to ask if you have any questions after reading through the resources linked by FaeryBee above.
> 
> Best of luck and keep us posted!
> 
> Cheers 👋


exactly, for example, it only took me two days to tame my current budgie, Zakiya. But before Zakiya i had a pair of budgies and it took me around a month and a half to tame them. It really depends on the budgies personality.


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## FaeryBee

*Please make sure to take a look at the information in this link if you have not already done so.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*

*Moving her cage away from your bed over to your workspace is a good idea. I'd put the cage so she is facing your profile. 
If you are talking to her as you work, it will be good for her to see your face and may actually encourage her to become more curious.*


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## Ianatore

Thank you everyone for your help. She now has all the essentials and at least one toy she's not terrified of. I think she likes her new cage since today she moved more than the last month altogether. She mostly fly from perch to perch but also seems to preen/scratch a lot.

However, she hasn't come out of her cage for a long time. I would like her to come out a bit and do some exercises but I don't want to force her out so I leave the cage open all day since I'm working/studying from home.

I still give her millet (that I hold with my hand on one end) and she really likes it. I do that a couple times a day, she hears me talk and everything. I tried to stimulate her by making a game where she has to do a little step to have 1 or 2 bites of millet and she seems to like it sometimes she does it without me saying "small step".

That being said, she is still very scared of my hand. I was wondering if the thing where you put your hand in the cage every now and then for 10 minutes without any treats and just do nothing helps? Does the timeline when you change the cage resets to day 0?

Also, she seems to be molting, because I find lots of small white feathers around and she scratches her head on her perches now. She sometimes starts squawking out of nowhere (for exemple I'm writing with some music on, mostly classical, and all of the sudden she just start squawking but nothing happen, like litterally nothing new haha) so I was wondering if maybe it was due to her molting or is it something else?

Finally, she likes to rips some pieces of her perch, is it normal? (non-toxic natural perches)

Thanks again!


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## FaeryBee

*It sounds as though you are doing great with Dalie.

Yes, putting your hand in the cage and holding it still a few times a day will help Dalie get used to the idea that your hand will not harm her.

If she is scratching her head on her perches, she is getting ready to molt.
Nothing to worry about when Dalie starts squawking. Budgies simply like to make noise -- sometimes for no reason at all. LOL

Yes, budgies (especially females) love to tear and rip off pieces of toys and perches. This is normal and actually quite a good thing.
It keeps their beaks trim and strong. Shredding toys are especially important for Dalie.*


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## Ianatore

Hello!

So Dali got used to her new cage and seems to be done with molting. She now stands at the end of her perch(closer to the door) instead of in the corner, so I guess we are slowly getting there. 

She still doesnt really out, beside once every 3 days she will jump.out, fly next to.me then fly right back in her cage. I installed a couple of perches with some.millet around my room but I think she is still scared. 

Im slowly shortening the distance between my hand and her when I feed her millet and she also comes a tiny bit closer and doesnt freak out anymore when I take my hand out of the cage.

That being said, I have to take care of my dog for like 2 days. As I said I was a dog trainer so he is very calm and gentle and really listens to.me haha. However I'm a bit concerned, if she sees him with me, could she associate me with the dog and be tromatised forever.

I dont really have a choice since family emergency so I was wondering if maybe I should just leave her be for those 2 days or if It could be beneficial.for her to see that I interact with another being and that hes calm around me. 

Actually, I really dont know what to do haha so if anyome has some suggestions or experience I would really appreciate it.

Thanks again for.all the help!!


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## FaeryBee

*Please keep Dali in her cage at all times when you are caring for your dog.
Is there a separate room her cage can be in while the dog is with you?*


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## Ianatore

Yes I did bring my dog in the room.so they could at least see eachother with me in case he walks in my room while im not looking but they both didnt care. Ill still keep my room door closed during the day thank you (and the cage door the whole.time)


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## FaeryBee

*Perfect! Well done. *


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## Ianatore

Hello,

I know this thread is now very much off topic and has become more a journal/Q&A than about millet but tonight it has been 1 month 3 weeks that I had Dali. She didn't care at all about my dog she kept doing her thing. She still doesn't come out of her cage, even if sometimes she looks as if she wants to but kind of "almost jump" but seems to lack the courage to come out.
I bought a bunch of shredding toys, a ladder and a swing, but she mostly stays on her perches and shreds them. I guess she just likes it better.

I was a bit discouraged myself because I was seeing all those video or post on reddit about people who are like "3 weeks, finally hand tamed" or "first day with him" and hes on their finger while I always speaks to her, feed her millet with my hand, changed her diet a bit, I even moved my keyboard in my room because I used to play classical piano.

Anyways, tonight I decided to shorten bit of millet spray between her and my hand to 1 inches or so instead of like 3 inches, and as the millet fell on one of my fingers, she delicately took it off my hand (to eat it) and it was my first physical contact with her, so I'm very happy and felt like sharing haha!

I still don't know when I'll try to introduce my finger as a perch but I stopped trying to watch youtube videos or read article for answers and decided to also go with my intuition and just go very slowly and it feels more natural for both of us. I guess in a way we are both taming each other haha. 

Anyways I just felt like sharing this so if someone gets very impatient, maybe he'll land on this thread and wont feel like he's alone haha!


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## FaeryBee

*Your post is a testament that it simply takes time and patience when you are working on taming and bonding.

You are doing a great job with Dali!*


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## Ianatore

Hello,

Thank you again for all the answers. So I have been having Dali for 8 weeks now. I keep upgrading her cage slowly with homemade toys and trying to find what she likes and dislikes. She started playing with the shredding toy I made. However, her favorite thing to do is to make her swing move and look at it. I keep the cage opened all day everyday, always have calm music, talk to her, and she has a couple of perches at high places in the room. 

Still, she never comes out for a fly. It has been 3 weeks since she came out on her own. She only flew out yesterday as I was hanging a new toy and she got scared of my hand, did 2 or 3 loop around the room then came back in her cage.

She eats millet in between my thumb and index but still very very scared of my hand. Also, she never really sings she mostly either scream or do the strident "mate call" I think. Every night I read a chapter of a book (out loud in a soothing tone, figured I would practice my pronunciation since I'm a teacher assistant and English is not my first language) while having my hand at the entrance of the cage so she gets used to it. She's kind of fine with it but doesn't seem curious whatsoever about me or coming out. 

Knowing I got her when she was about 6 months old and interacted with her everyday since, and am with her most of the time unless I'm at university, could it be possible that she just like to be left alone? I was thinking of maybe getting another budgie so she at least can play with another living thing that she wouldn't be terrified of.

I must admit even if there are some small progress compared to the first day she was here, I'm a bit anxious that she might never get comfortable with me around and I don't want to leave her terrified for the rest of her days.

So, after 8 weeks (almost 9), should I just consider getting another budgie and leave them live their life or could she randomly decide to come out of her cage or be curious and try to interact with me? In other words, are there untamable budgie or maybe I'm just doing something wrong?


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## Ianatore

Hello!

Now Dali eats millet when it is really close to my hand (in face I hold it so that the end of the spray is between my thumb and index), and will sometimes nibble at my fingers. However, sometimes its as if she realized how close she is from my hand and then just back off a bit.

I was wondering, if at that moment, it was better to immediately bring my hand out to show her that I respect her limits (which is what I am doing) or should I keep my hand there maybe for a little time (to show her that it in fact didn't do anything).

Also, this morning I brought her cage in my living room which is much bigger put has a huge window (yeah I'm lucky). She did come out very fast but went twice straight at the window and I don't have a curtain. So, I was wondering if I should keep her cage in my office/room which is big enough but not as big, so she feels a certain sense of stability (like her cage will always be there if she leaves) or if I should bring it when I can during the day in the living room? 

I liked that she stayed outside her cage much longer than usual where she just do 2 circle around the room then goes straight back in despite of all the perch I installed but I would also like it if she was a bit less scared of me and I don't know whether I should be more around stability or stimulation (not to say that I don't stimulate her at all just she doesn't fly as much)


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## FaeryBee

*I would leave my hand inside the cage once she finishes the millet close to your fingers.
Having it there and holding it still will help her learn to trust "the hand".

Bringing your cage in the living room is fine. It sounds, from your post, like she already knows the dimensions of the living room without bumping into the window.
That is the only reason I ever covered windows initially in any room where my birds' have/had out-of-cage time.
Once they learn the rooms' dimensions, they have never flown into an uncovered window.*


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## Ianatore

Thank you! I did as you said and she didnt bump into the window yesterday and flew back and forth right over my head (which was fun, at least it was for me haha)

Also, I dont know what happened but today she keeps doing the "mate call" or flock call (the super annoying high pitch noise) I dont know what it is called and when I gave her millet she wasnt as scared and I even have been able to give her one very gentle small stroke on her tummy and she didnt move away. She will.even eat millet while my index is straightened so she could use it as a perch (with the index inbetween her and the millet) and she doesnt mind even if she doesnt seem.to be interested to climb on, I guess its a good thing.

However those "calls" are very loud and its the first time she does.that. Could it be that something is wrong or just shes not as shy and decided to make noise from now on?


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## Ianatore

Also, here is a picture of her (since I never posted one)


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## FaeryBee

*She is making noise simply because she wants to.
Get used to it. It's a good thing when budgies chirp, even when its loudly.

Let Them Sing!

Dali is a very pretty little girl! Thank you for sharing her picture.*


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## Ianatore

FaeryBee said:


> *She is making noise simply because she wants to.
> Get used to it. It's a good thing when budgies chirp, even when its loudly.
> 
> Let Them Sing!
> 
> Dali is a very pretty little girl! Thank you for sharing her picture.*


Thank you so much. It really appreciate to have some feedback on what is normal and what is not (even if sometimes my questions might sound kind of stupid).


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## FaeryBee

*Your questions are fine and I'm glad that we are able to help put your mind at ease. 💜💜*


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## Ianatore

I just received some new perches, toys and stainless steel bowl yesterday. Here is her cage upgraded (with Dali on top who doesnt seem super happy about changes) 









I only changed one bowl (for food) and left the old one just in case. 

I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions for layout ?(the flat one is right next to where she sleeps).

It feels as if it was a bit overcrowded and she is mostly scared of new things (i left the perches and toys next to her cage for a day so its not totally new).

Also, when she gets out to fly she never ever perches anywhere else than the top of her cage is there anything I can do to make her want to explore a bit?


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## FaeryBee

*The cage looks good. Do you have a mineral block in it in addition to her cuttle bone?
I would suggest adding another swing if Dali is not using the wicker wreath swing much.
Having a nice bell would be good as well. In general, most budgies love bells. 

With regard to Dali leaving the top of the cage: By perching there she feels safer than anywhere else in the room.
You could try putting a play ground somewhere outside her cage to see if you could entice her to explore that.*


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## Ianatore

Thank you! I added a mineral bone and a big bell that she likes. She now eats millet very close to my hand (she often stuff her beak between my finger and the millet to get the part that is under my finger). However, even if she don't mind having her head touching my fingers, she wont try to put her foots on them. 

I tried putting millet in my palm and she's just not interested in that. I tried extending one finger and slowly making the millet out of reach other than if she perches on my finger, but once it's out of reach she just looks at it and sometimes nibble my fingers a bit (I'm guessing its nibbling since it doesnt hurt at all but maybe its like a warning that she would bite me if I try to come closer).

In other words, is there a good way to make her comfortable with my hand as a perch? Should I try to always make the millet out of reach and just wait until she tries to come on or keep feeding her millet and she would eventually come on her own?

I feel that if I don't try something different she will never progress from here (maybe it's just a feeling). Also, is it possible she will never truly be tamed as other budgies since it's been 3 months now?

Thanks again for all the help!


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## FaeryBee

*If you simply put a bit of millet on your palm, put your hand in her cage and hold it perfectly still, over time she will come to your hand for the millet IF that is the only time she has access to millet. 
It may take several sessions over several days before it happens so you'll have to be patient. Hold you hand still in the cage for several minutes if you are able to do so. Put your hand close enough to her that she can manage to step or hop over onto it to get to the millet but not so close that she can reach the millet without moving onto your hand to do so.*


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## Ianatore

FaeryBee said:


> *If you simply put a bit of millet on your palm, put your hand in her cage and hold it perfectly still, over time she will come to your hand for the millet IF that is the only time she has access to millet.
> It may take several sessions over several days before it happens so you'll have to be patient. Hold you hand still in the cage for several minutes if you are able to do so. Put your hand close enough to her that she can manage to step or hop over onto it to get to the millet but not so close that she can reach the millet without moving onto your hand to do so.*


Thank you! Should I put a millet spray in my palm or should I just put the seeds?


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## FaeryBee

*Just use a few of the seeds. No more than one of the little millet balls. *


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## Ianatore

Okay thank you! I started only giving her millet that way since sunday. We'll see how it goes so far she just looks at my hand without moving.

Made me wonder if it was normal that, 3 months after I got her, she's still quite scared of me and never truly seems "happy" when I'm here. She'll often become quieter in fact (other than when she has a lot of energy and can't help herself). 

At this stage, should she be more comfortable or happy when I'm around or is it normal?


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## Ianatore

I'm gonna reply to my post here. 

We did it! She hoped on my finger (for about 2 minutes, with millet, but still)
She did put one foot on my finger twice yesterday and today, after about 20 minutes without moving she accidently put her nail on my finger and then just went with it I guess and hoped on it. Sheeeesh, what a feeling.

However, she hopped off and I left my hand there and then she did it again, for like a sec then I guess she realized what she was doing and seemed horrified for a sec. I backed off after that but I was wondering if I should keep on doing what I was doing and she'll kind of ease off in time? I don't want her to be traumatized by my hand if she keeps getting horrified like that.

Still, thank you everyone for all your good advice. I did pay off on the long run!


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## FaeryBee

*Great job! Keep going with her training. You are making excellent progress. 💜💜 *


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## Ianatore

Thank you for all the advices again, here is a picture of us. Took me forever to take it but worth it.


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## FaeryBee

*She is so pretty! You're doing great with her.
You might want to consider putting the paper at the bottom of the cage on top of the bottom grate rather than under it.
Doing so allows Dali to run on the bottom of the cage (if she desires) and makes clean-up much easier as well. *


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## Ianatore

Thank you! I did put the paper at the bottom of the cage. She didn't like it but I guess she'll get used to it. I try putting some seeds at the bottom so she would go get them.

So last week Dali came on my finger each time I offered her millet. Always took some time but she would eventually do it. I would stay still once she was on my finger and slowly drop her back on her perch where she was when she hoped on. 

However, for the last 4 days, she only puts one foot on my finger and not for very long.

Also, she reacts a lot when my roommate start moving around the apartment. She will start making noise when he move around the appartment. 

He never ever talks to her, go see her. He is very noisy (he always whistle or sings, or practice cello). (It kind of annoys me to be honest because she seems more interested in him even if he never gave her attention whatsoever)

Maybe I should be more noisy? I try to talk to her as much as I can.

Also, should I back off with the perching on my hand thing since she seems more scared than anything now? 

Finally, she did not come out of her cage for 3 weeks now. Even when I bring her to the living room and build her 2 playgrounds (one in my office where she mostly is, one in the living room) and even if I leave the cage door opened when I leave for university for a couple of hours. I would really like for her to go out and have some exercises beside playing with her bells and getting on her swing from time to time. I feel as if she is depressed if she never comes out but maybe it is normal for a young budgie?


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## FaeryBee

*It takes time and patience to tame a budgie.
Many budgies prefer to stay in their cage as it is their "safe" place. Simply give her the opportunity to do so (as you have been) and let her make the decision for herself.*


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## Ianatore

Hello,

It has been a while since I posted update. 

She now hops on my finger as soon as she start eating it. For two weeks she would only put one foot on my finger. Was frustrating but then I started to make it a game since she wasn't trusting me. At first I would put her foot back on the perch then just said "come" over and over and wouldn't allow her to eat as long as she didn't put a foot on my hand and finally she flinched and realized I looked happy and stopped taking the millet away when she put her foot so it became an habit after a while. Then I would keep to having the millet just in reach so that with one foot on my finger she could barely get it and kept saying up. After a day she learned to hop (she didn't like to but still came after saying it 3 or 4 times). 3 days ago she was hoping on the first "hop". For the last 2 days she has been hoping on my finger on her own and sometimes even when I get her back to her perch she tries to hold as long as she can. 

However, she is still (not as much) scared of my hand when I get it in for anything that doesn't involve millet. I've been trying to do stuff right next to her cage like writing or something that makes my hand move so she gets interested and see that it is not a monster. 

I was wondering how I could transition the hop thing from millet to without millet (I'm not very used to only positive reinforcement learning since I mostly worked with abandoned dogs) and if I should try to slowly bring her out the cage very slowly as she eats millet but I fear it might just freak her out.

Thanks again for all the help I probably would have given up by now if it wasn't for this forum.


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## FaeryBee

*She isn't ready to transition to no millet just yet.
With regard to her coming out of her cage, that needs to be her decision, not yours.
When you are going to have the time to ensure she gets back safely into her cage without you having to chase her around and grab her to put her back in, then leave the door to the cage open. Have a couple of perches set up on the outside of the cage and, if the cage has a flat top, you can put a small playground on top of the cage for her. Or, put a playground near the cage. You can put a favorite toy and some millet on the playground to make the idea of coming out more acceptable to her.
Keep in mind, just like anything else, you have to have patience and work at her pace.*


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## Ianatore

Hello,

Just a little update on Dali's progress. I just kept on feeding her millet while she sits on my finger everyday about 10 mins 3 times a day. She always hops on my finger if there is millet now (and if shes in the cage) which is very cool. 

I don't know what happened yesterday but she flew out of her cage and now she can't get enough of outside time. Since I work from home on weekends she has been flying on and off the top of her cage all day yesterday and today. It is such a relief that she finally fly. She also really likes to climb on her cage bars. She also sometimes.wait for me to say fly before jumping which is very funny. 

I try to feed her millet when she is outside by holding it on one side and she'll eventually come and eat some.

I think she is still scared of my hand without millet I try to leave her be as much as possible while being in the room just in case. I guess with time ( quite long when I compare to most article that says that within a month a bird should be tamed) she will eventually trust me.

Thanks again for all the help!


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## FaeryBee

*Excellent news that Dali is now enjoying her out-of cage time!*


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## Ianatore

Hello,

Its been a while since I posted an update on Dali's progress I have been very busy with university!

Everyday for the last 2 months I gave her some chopped veggies in bowl and she wouldn't eat any but alas, I found that she loves salad and now eats some every day. I am now trying to mix it with some new vegetables but she only likes salad so I will keep trying.









She flies a bit more and really loves to shred the toys that I make for her. Also, when I put my hand_ with millet _in her cage at the spot where I usually feed her, she will ask for my finger so she can perch on it (by raising one of her foot, which is cute) and when I say "small step", she will do a small step on my finger, which is funny haha. I also realized that she likes it when I put my head very very close to the cage and talk to her. She will often just go on her swing and talk non-stop when I do that. 

However, if I put my hand in the cage for anything other than to give her millet, change the paper at the bottom of the cage or give her salad/seeds, she is still super scared. I try to stimulate her as much as I can with music, talking to her and making her toys. I bring her cage with me and she likes it when I put the cage close to me (otherwise she just screams periodically).

I was wondering if there was any game I could play with her that would make her more comfortable with my hand without millet, or some exercises beside putting my hand at the bottom of her cage because I have been doing it daily and she doesn't seems to get used to it. I can't say if we have a "bond" because on some aspect she seems super tamed, and some other not at all haha. 

But beside that, she seems super healthy, she cuts her fingernails herself and preen a lot (sometimes I feel like she's forever molting very slowly).

Thanks again for all the advices!


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## FaeryBee

*I'm very glad Dali is doing well.

As she likes "salad" by which I assume you mean lettuce,* o*ther green leafy vegetables you can offer include:

Kale
chard
collard greens
fresh beet greens
fresh mustard greens
fresh turnip greens
endive
Romaine
watercress
fresh sprouts
chickweed and dandelion leaves (ensure they have not been chemically treated)

Spinach and/or Parsley should only be given once a week.
Spinach and Parsley contain oxalic acid which binds to calcium, blocks the absorption of calcium and puts stress on the kidneys.

Too much oxalic acid can also cause poor blood clotting and convulsions in birds.

*


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