# Albino Gender and possible future breeding (at least once)



## BudgieBirdie

Hello, I am not new to owning budgies, etc. But it will be my first albino bird an possibly breeding. I had an almost 2 year, hand raised (though not worked with since babies) Pair donate to me for a better home. I was told that the blue one was female (I believe it to male though due to it's blue cere and it talks to itself in mirrors a lot), and I was told the white one was male. (I am unsure about this one, but believe it to be female instead. Usually I'd think this because the cere is very light but with it being albino, I think this because it's very reserved and doesnt makes much noise).

Also, I'm planing on re-hand taming these two and possibly breeding at least once to keep a baby and hand raise it. Any tips on the gender, taming refresher and breeding? Keep in mind, I just got them this week and haven't done more research yet aside from the info I already knew on how to care for them and basic bonding info. . Thank you all for your time.


----------



## Cody

The blue bird is definitely a male, please post a full frontal picture of the albino, taken without a flash, so we can better see the cere. There is a lot of planning and education that needs to be done before breeding your birds, there are so many things that could go wrong and you need to know what to do should something arise, please review the info in these links,








Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies


Just because it's "natural" doesn't mean that we should allow it to happen in our homes. There are many many MANY things you need to consider before allowing your birds to breed. Here is a list of things you need to think of before you even CONSIDER breeding. 1). Are your birds proper...




www.talkbudgies.com












A Heartfelt Plea to All Members


The purpose of Talk Budgies is to promote the best practices for the care, health and well-being of budgies and we welcome those who truly want to learn. Learning must always begin with a strong foundation on which additional knowledge and experience is then added. Ideally, our learning should...




www.talkbudgies.com












Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads


All posts made on the Talk Budgies forum requesting breeding advice are subject to the guidance outlined below So you think you want to breed your budgies First, please recognize that just because a male and female are housed together, they do not "need" to breed. Breeding is NOT...




www.talkbudgies.com


----------



## BudgieBirdie

Also, are there and powders/vitamins and minerals that I should give them, aside from cuttle bone and adding millet, fruits and veggies to their seed diet? I have to dust my reptiles food, so just curious if there's any new items they recommend for birds now, since I haven't owned one in years. I'm aware how vastly pet keeping info can change over the years.(it definitely did with reptiles, we know so much more about proper care now then 10 years ago) Thanks.

Does this work? I'm pretty sure it's a female. Nearest the nostrils it's very light, if not white. But it's my first albino, so I'm not sure. Thank you.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Would you please take the time to let us know specifically why you think it is important to breed your budgies (at least once)?

Before breeding any species, it is important to learn as much about the animals, their personalities, and the best practices to follow for responsible and ethical breeding prior to making the commitment to take on the responsibility. 
This requires extensive research and an openness to continual learning.

Domestic budgies are much healthier and happier when they are never bred.

If you decide to proceed with the decision to breed your budgies, then please take the time to read ALL of the Budgie Articles regarding Breeding as well as the stickies at the top of the Breeding Budgies section of the forum. This will give you a good overview for your research.
If, after reading everything you have specific questions, please ask them in this thread.

Do you have natural wood perches in your birds' cage?
The wooden dowels shown in the pictures you posted can lead to pressure sores and bumblefoot.*
*Pressure Sores*
*Bumblefoot*
*The information in this link will give examples of better options for perches:*
*Essentials for a Great Cage*


----------



## BudgieBirdie

FaeryBee said:


> *Would you please take the time to let us know specifically why you think it is important to breed your budgies (at least once)?
> 
> Before breeding any species, it is important to learn as much about the animals, their personalities, and the best practices to follow for responsible and ethical breeding prior to making the commitment to take on the responsibility.
> This requires extensive research and an openness to continual learning.
> 
> Domestic budgies are much healthier and happier when they are never bred.
> 
> If you decide to proceed with the decision to breed your budgies, then please take the time to read ALL of the Budgie Articles regarding Breeding as well as the stickies at the top of the Breeding Budgies section of the forum. This will give you a good overview for your research.
> If, after reading everything you have specific questions, please ask them in this thread.
> 
> Do you have natural wood perches in your birds' cage?
> The wooden dowels shown in the pictures you posted can lead to pressure sores and bumblefoot.*
> *Pressure Sores*
> *Bumblefoot*
> *The information in this link will give examples of better options for perches:*
> *Essentials for a Great Cage*


As of right now it's just a thought. As the previous owner believed they had been mating. I am not set on it yet. But I don't like to support over breeding of pets that are commonly gotten and rehomed, like budgies. So, since it wouldn't support a breeder to just add more babies to the already full market and they were supposedly already Mating (though I was unsure how true this was considering they had the genders confused), I was considering allowing them to continue and breed once for a future bird baby that I could bond with from birth. Though, I like to do plenty of research before I do anything with my pets, which is what I'm doing now and why I'm here.

Everything in the cage came with them, I haven't changed or rearranged anything yet. I've had them about 4 days. I'm letting them settle in and wait until I get paid to get new supplies. But they have a rope and wood ladder, round, textured plastic perches and those classic round wooden ones. None that look like, say, a vine or anything. What would you recommend? They also have cloth little hides they seem to like but I'll probably replace those with something else since they're cloth.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Thank you for your answer.

There are ways to discourage breeding if/when you have a mixed gender pair. 
Rearranging the cage frequently, never providing nesting sites, limiting daylight hours and limiting the amount of protein in the birds’ diets. 

Please remove any mirrors from the budgies cage. Mirrors are not recommended as the can cause aggressive and territorial behavior. Some budgies become so obsessed with their reflection they regurgitate to the point they become malnourished. 

When I’m back on my computer I can provide taming tips. 

Any kind of nesting place, coconut huts, fabric snuggle huts, hollow logs, etc are never recommended for any budgies. Please see link below;

Dangers of Rope, Snuggle Huts, Fabric and Tasseled Toy

Natural wood perches such as grapevine, Java, manzanita,etc are preferable over plastic and or wooden dowels. 
The following link has excellent information regarding perches and other essential items*

*Essentials to a Great Cage*
*💜

The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
*Locating an Avian Veterinarian*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
Additionally, please be sure to read the thread "Posting on the Forums" which is linked below.

Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
(Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)
These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*

*SITE GUIDELINES*
*Posting on the Forums*
*Let's Talk Budgies!*
*FAQ*
*Articles*
*Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
*Avian First Aid*
*Quarantine IS Necessary!*
*A Heartfelt Plea to All Members*
*Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*
*Dangers to Pet Birds*
*Resource Directory*


----------



## BudgieBirdie

FaeryBee said:


> *Thank you for your answer.
> 
> There are ways to discourage breeding if/when you have a mixed gender pair.
> Rearranging the cage frequently, never providing nesting sites, limiting daylight hours and limiting the amount of protein in the birds’ diets.
> 
> Please remove any mirrors from the budgies cage. Mirrors are not recommended as the can cause aggressive and territorial behavior. Some budgies become so obsessed with their reflection they regurgitate to the point they become malnourished.
> 
> When I’m back on my computer I can provide taming tips.
> 
> Any kind of nesting place, coconut huts, fabric snuggle huts, hollow logs, etc are never recommended for any budgies. Please see link below;
> 
> Dangers of Rope, Snuggle Huts, Fabric and Tasseled Toy
> 
> Natural wood perches such as grapevine, Java, manzanita,etc are preferable over plastic and or wooden dowels.
> The following link has excellent information regarding perches and other essential items*
> 
> *Essentials to a Great Cage*
> *💜
> 
> The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
> *Locating an Avian Veterinarian*
> 
> *A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
> *Quality Seed Mix*
> *CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
> *Safe Foods for Budgies*
> *The Truth about GRIT*
> 
> *Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
> Additionally, please be sure to read the thread "Posting on the Forums" which is linked below.
> 
> Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
> (Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)
> These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*
> 
> *SITE GUIDELINES*
> *Posting on the Forums*
> *Let's Talk Budgies!*
> *FAQ*
> *Articles*
> *Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
> *Avian First Aid*
> *Quarantine IS Necessary!*
> *A Heartfelt Plea to All Members*
> *Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
> *Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
> *Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
> *Cage sizes.*
> *Essentials to a Great Cage*
> *Dangers to Pet Birds*
> *Resource Directory*


Thank you very much. That's why I'm here, I'm one of those "weird" pet people that super research everything about their pets, how they'd live in the wild, what's the best items for them, etc. I prefer to learn from people that's been doing this for years and learned along the way over just reading a random sites from people newer to be bird world. As of right now, I know much more about cockatiels than budgies, but looking to learn all there is to learn. So I love this forum already. Like I said, I'm not sold on breeding. I may do it once to have a baby from them to keep, instead of supporting pet shop breeding mills or having a breeder hatch a whole clutch needing to be rehomed for me to just get one baby, but with all that being said breeding them is still a big maybe. To be decided after much more research. 

Sounds like the best perches are the same kind I use for my reptiles, all natural and usually grapevines. Which I do still have some extras of so, I'll be able to replace some branches tonight. I like to create my own toys and item a lot. Are there any specific types of natural branches I can use aside from grapevine (like oak, cedar, etc. Types of trees)? For reptiles I sometimes go hiking and find good branches and wash and bake them to sanitize them. I make toys huts and perches from them. I appreciate all the links, I've read through some but will continue reading through them until I'm done.


----------



## Cody

Do not use oak for the perches, please take a look at this link for safe and unsafe woods Safe natural wood for budgies


----------



## FaeryBee

*Budgies need a minimum of two weeks to settle into their new home and you should not be trying to touch or tame them at this time. They are often submissive initially because they are terrified.

You can cover the top and three sides of the cage to help them feel more secure. Play music or the TV for them when you are not around during the day.

Taming and Bonding is all about helping your budgies learn to trust you and it takes a great deal of time and patience on your part.
You should never grab your budgies or force them to be touched.
To bond with your budgies, you need to build their trust in you.
They will have to learn over time that you will not hurt them, grab them and try to force them to allow you to hold them.

To build your birds’ trust, sit by their cage and read, talk or sing quietly to them for a period of at least 10-15 minutes, 3 or 4 times day. After about a week, rest your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to them so they will learn that your hand is safe and will not hurt them. 

After a week of resting your hand on the outside of the cage, rest your hand inside the cage when you talk.

Don’t make sudden moves, don’t try to touch them.
Let their get used to the idea that the hand is now in their safe place and not harming them.

After 2 weeks, begin moving your hand slowly toward your bird. If they become agitated, stop moving your hand and just hold very still until they calm down. When they are comfortable with your hand near them, you can offer them a bit of millet or a few seeds.

Always work at your birds’ pace.
Move slowly and talk reassuringly and calmly to their whenever you interact with them.

Bonding means allowing your budgie to choose to be with you.*


----------



## BudgieBirdie

Cody said:


> Do not use oak for the perches, please take a look at this link for safe and unsafe woods Safe natural wood for budgies


Thank you. That's exactly the type of answer I was hoping to get. I appreciate it, thanks. Did the white one look female to you as well?


----------



## FaeryBee

*@StarlingWings is the absolute best when it comes to determining gender. I am deferring to her on this one!
I have notified her and asked that she weigh in on the thread when she is next on-line. 💜 *


----------



## BudgieBirdie

FaeryBee said:


> *@StarlingWings is the absolute best when it comes to determining gender. I am deferring to her on this one!
> I have notified her and asked that she weigh in on the thread when she is next on-line. 💜 *


Thank you so much. When they were given to me the owner had paperwork from the breeder stating the blue one as female and the white one as male. But I was almost 100% sure the blue was male (which Cody confirmed) and the while possibly female, but since she's my first albino I wanted to be sure. She just acts like a female with how quiet and reserved she is and her cere is very light, though being albino everything is very light haha. They got them at 8 weeks old though, so I'm not sure how the breeder would know so positively. Unless there's a way of predicting the gender of eggs like in reptiles. But I've never heard of that in birds. I appreciate your help and info. Excited to get all the reading done and learn all the new there is to know about our new budgies.


----------



## Cody

BudgieBirdie said:


> Thank you. That's exactly the type of answer I was hoping to get. I appreciate it, thanks. Did the white one look female to you as well?


I will defer the gender question to StarlingWings as well, the cere in the second picture looks almost pinkish purple on my computer, if that is the way it looks in person then it is a male, if it is more tan in person, then I would say female.


----------



## FaeryBee

*The gender of “most” budgies can be determined at a young age. 

Some mutations are more difficult than others. 

With my computer screen and my eyes not being what they used to be, I prefer StarlingWings make the determination on the “difficult “ ones! 😂

Common Myths about Female Budgies.*


----------



## BudgieBirdie

Cody said:


> I will defer the gender question to StarlingWings as well, the cere in the second picture looks almost pinkish purple on my computer, if that is the way it looks in person then it is a male, if it is more tan in person, then I would say female.


Thanks. In person it looks pale pinkish more than tan or purple. I'd say female 100% except the blue who I know is male tends to peck at the white ones head to make it scoot over when I'm putting anything in the cage, like I bowl or reattaching a fallen toy. (That's the only time I've seen it happen). Never seen a male to that to it's female mate before. Ive never seen them preen either, but I've had them for under a week too. White one never talks to itself in the mirror either so far, but blue one does A LOT. I will probably remove the mirrors as advised. I thought the blue liked them but I don't want that to be the cause of the random pecking. Names to be determined, obviously. Blue and white for now. Lol


----------



## BudgieBirdie

FaeryBee said:


> *Budgies need a minimum of two weeks to settle into their new home and you should not be trying to touch or tame them at this time. They are often submissive initially because they are terrified.
> 
> You can cover the top and three sides of the cage to help them feel more secure. Play music or the TV for them when you are not around during the day.
> 
> Taming and Bonding is all about helping your budgies learn to trust you and it takes a great deal of time and patience on your part.
> You should never grab your budgies or force them to be touched.
> To bond with your budgies, you need to build their trust in you.
> They will have to learn over time that you will not hurt them, grab them and try to force them to allow you to hold them.
> 
> To build your birds’ trust, sit by their cage and read, talk or sing quietly to them for a period of at least 10-15 minutes, 3 or 4 times day. After about a week, rest your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to them so they will learn that your hand is safe and will not hurt them.
> 
> After a week of resting your hand on the outside of the cage, rest your hand inside the cage when you talk.
> 
> Don’t make sudden moves, don’t try to touch them.
> Let their get used to the idea that the hand is now in their safe place and not harming them.
> 
> After 2 weeks, begin moving your hand slowly toward your bird. If they become agitated, stop moving your hand and just hold very still until they calm down. When they are comfortable with your hand near them, you can offer them a bit of millet or a few seeds.
> 
> Always work at your birds’ pace.
> Move slowly and talk reassuringly and calmly to their whenever you interact with them.
> 
> Bonding means allowing your budgie to choose to be with you.*


I grew up with birds, had one as an adult but it's been over 10 years. But i have tamed 2 sugar gliders since then, which are tamed very similarly to birds. I'm not worried about taming them, especially quickly, as I've done it before and am confident I can do it in a way that will be the most comfortable for them. But I am open to tips, which is why I mentioned taming them in my post. My one glider had never been touched or worked with and took the span of a year to slowly tame him as not to break any trust I had built with him. It's always on his terms. If he wants to come and see me he can, if he doesn't I leave him alone. Though biting did not get him left alone, I just kept my hand in longer if he did that. The goal is to make myself a calm, fun treat giver, not the giant that invades their space and grabs them. Plan on treating these guys the same. I figured I'd give these guys at least a week or two and sit and talk with them, than the week after just hold my hand in while talking to them. After they're used to that and just go about their business while my hand is in, I'd then add treats to my hand. Once they get used to taking treats from my hand regularly for a few weeks I'd let them out of the cage and use the hand treat thing to get them back in. As of right now, my son (11 yr, very understanding of animals and has helped me tame other pets. Very quiet, kind kid. We lucked out with him. haha) watches TV quietly in the mornings and nights in the room they're in. They are supposedly already used to taking treats from the side of the cage, but I'm pretty sure they've just been ignored since they were purchased. Aside from feeding and cleaning. She advised me that if they got too loud, I could just talk to them and they'd stop. My first thought was, why make them stop? They sound beautiful, I whistle back and they seem to enjoy that. Sorry so long, just wanna make sure I'm doing everything right, as it has been quite a while since I've owned birds and want to learn all the new practices and give them the best life possible. Love all the links on here!


----------



## StarlingWings

They are beautiful. I do think the white one is possibly male but from only one photo it's hard to tell. Could you possibly get a few more photos, and one or two with the flash as well? 

As a side note, it is usually NOT advised to post photos with the flash for determining gender. I am asking for them now because sometimes you can tell the relative "shininess" or "matte-ness" of the cere color from photos with the flash IF you have reference photos taken in natural light


----------



## BudgieBirdie

StarlingWings said:


> They are beautiful. I do think the white one is possibly male but from only one photo it's hard to tell. Could you possibly get a few more photos, and one or two with the flash as well?
> 
> As a side note, it is usually NOT advised to post photos with the flash for determining gender. I am asking for them now because sometimes you can tell the relative "shininess" or "matte-ness" of the cere color from photos with the flash IF you have reference photos taken in natural light


I can get some added tonight some time. Thank you for your info. I was thinking female but the other that I know is male just doesn't treat the white on like I've seen most other males treat a female. I will add pictures tonight. Thank you all. I'd actually be glad if it's a male, then no breeding decision or discouraging has to be done. If male though, I can still keep them together right? As long as they don't fight, is my understanding.


----------



## BudgieBirdie

BudgieBirdie said:


> Hello, I am not new to owning budgies, etc. But it will be my first albino bird an possibly breeding. I had an almost 2 year, hand raised (though not worked with since babies) Pair donate to me for a better home. I was told that the blue one was female (I believe it to male though due to it's blue cere and it talks to itself in mirrors a lot), and I was told the white one was male. (I am unsure about this one, but believe it to be female instead. Usually I'd think this because the cere is very light but with it being albino, I think this because it's very reserved and doesnt makes much noise).
> 
> Also, I'm planing on re-hand taming these two and possibly breeding at least once to keep a baby and hand raise it. Any tips on the gender, taming refresher and breeding? Keep in mind, I just got them this week and haven't done more research yet aside from the info I already knew on how to care for them and basic bonding info. . Thank you all for your time.





StarlingWings said:


> They are beautiful. I do think the white one is possibly male but from only one photo it's hard to tell. Could you possibly get a few more photos, and one or two with the flash as well?
> 
> As a side note, it is usually NOT advised to post photos with the flash for determining gender. I am asking for them now because sometimes you can tell the relative "shininess" or "matte-ness" of the cere color from photos with the flash IF you have reference photos taken in natural light


One more question, anyone who knows, please answer. When they were given to me I was told there was more food in the bottom of their bag of belongings. Turns out there is not and I ran out of food last night. I am on ssi disability and don't get paid until the 1st. What can I feed them until I get paid in a few days? I do have fresh broccoli, can I cut the florets off that and that hold them over for 3 days? I also have strawberries, dried fruits and compressed squares that has wheat, corn, and grain in it. Once paid I will bulk up on all food items best for them. Is there a link for best food options on this site? So far I haven't seen one, or just missed it. Thank you so much. *Edit, I did find a link on here about food from a vet site. I will use that when shopping


----------



## Cody

You can offer them veggies but the problem is that if they are not accustomed to eating things other than seed they may not recognize what you offer them as a food source and will not eat it. Can you get to a store to buy just a small amount that would be less than $10? Some grocery stores may carry small bags of seed in the pet food section.


----------



## StarlingWings

Have they ever eaten things like cooked grains, or hard boiled eggs? You can make chop for them out of ingredients you have at home but the problem is if they have never eaten it before as Cody said they will not recognize it and starve.
Getting bird food for them at least is the ideal situation, if you can’t get to the store then could you maybe ask someone to go for you?


----------



## BudgieBirdie

Cody said:


> You can offer them veggies but the problem is that if they are not accustomed to eating things other than seed they may not recognize what you offer them as a food source and will not eat it. Can you get to a store to buy just a small amount that would be less than $10? Some grocery stores may carry small bags of seed in the pet food section.


I know some are cheap but I'm literally broke. (Had to take a cat to emergency vet and poor thing ended up passing anyway. Kidney failure after long time bladder issues. Cleaned me out) I did find some pellet type food in the bottom of the bag they came with but not seeds. They didn't have those when I last owned birds. Is that a secondary type of food? Little colorful, beads and shape thing. Kinda the consistency of hard cat food. Just very mini. They did eat a little of the broccoli. If they don't eat what I offer tonight, I'll see if I can borrow something tomorrow. Don't know yet though. First time I've literally ever ran out of pet food. I budget all my pets and their needs. I didn't add these guys in yet because I was told I had that extra bag with them. Unless they meant these pellet, shape-beads things. Just never seen them as an option in stores when I last owned birds.



StarlingWings said:


> Have they ever eaten things like cooked grains, or hard boiled eggs? You can make chop for them out of ingredients you have at home but the problem is if they have never eaten it before as Cody said they will not recognize it and starve.
> Getting bird food for them at least is the ideal situation, if you can’t get to the store then could you maybe ask someone to go for you?


I'm not sure what they've eaten before I got them. Today is about day 4-5 of owning them. They ate the last of their seed today, so theyve eaten today. I will see if they eat the fruits and veggies tonight, if not I'll call around tomorrow. But yes, I can make them just about any human food. I keep all kinds of fruits, veggies and grains for my other pets. I won't let them starve. I can get to the store, just don't have cash for a few days. I'll probably be able to borrow a little cash or get some dropped off. Just have to call tomorrow when everyone is awake. Just in case though, I like to be prepared for anything. That's why I asked about other foods. I do know they've eaten apples before, she did say that.


I looked it up and yes, these are pellets. Look like kaytee brand. Never seen things like that not mixed with seeds when I owned birds. Haha. Is that good enough with the fruits and veggies for a few days? Like health wise for them. If not, I'll call around for seeds tomorrow. On the 1st they'll be getting all kinds of stuff.



StarlingWings said:


> They are beautiful. I do think the white one is possibly male but from only one photo it's hard to tell. Could you possibly get a few more photos, and one or two with the flash as well?
> 
> As a side note, it is usually NOT advised to post photos with the flash for determining gender. I am asking for them now because sometimes you can tell the relative "shininess" or "matte-ness" of the cere color from photos with the flash IF you have reference photos taken in natural light


Here are some with flash some without. Last pic with flash. It kept putting it's head down so was kinda hard to get a good one. I tried to add a video so you can see it in real time with the light hitting it. But it said it wasn't allowed. Such a sweet baby regardless of gender.


----------



## Aozane

Just some suggestions to try and help—

Do you have wild rice or lentils? You could try soaking these overnight and then offering them to the birds. There’s a sticky called “Sprout Everything” over in our Diet and Nutrition area that lists numerous grains within a mix that is rinsed, then soaked 8-12 hours, and optionally dried (some birds won’t touch the sprouted stuff wet, but some don’t mind it wet at all). Perhaps checking the list to see if you have any of the grains listed might help. I suggest this list because many things on it can look extremely similar to seeds to the point that the budgies will try them (I can at least say that worked for my budgie).

Cooked quinoa is also good for budgies if you have it and looks a bit like seeds. It is _VERY IMPORTANT_ though to make sure the quinoa is well-rinsed several times with hot water before cooking—it is initially covered with a substance that is toxic to budgies.

You could try corn or peas—they are smaller veggies and might look more like something to try eating. I’ve cut them up into tiny pieces so they’re almost seed-sized. Cooked sweet potato is good for them too, you could offer some mashed up to see if they‘ll investigate it.

What about herbs? Budgies can like “spicy” or strong herbal flavors—some forum budgies love a little garlic powder sprinkled on things, or dill. My budgie loves basil, and sometimes will nibble on mint. Maybe something that looks leafy, even if not familiar, might be interesting to play with and end up trying that way?

Another possibility—do you have any bell peppers? The seeds inside of a bell pepper might look familiar and edible to your birds.

To try and help the birds recognize veggies and grains they might not have had before, you can try and show the budgies that what you’re offering is food by eating some yourself (do not take a bite of something and then offer it to them though, there is bacteria in the human mouth that is bad for birds), or using your hand as a “budgie” and picking at the food as if the ”hand budgie“ were eating it. Budgies being flock animals, they often take cues on what it safe to eat from other flock members. So if they see you or the “hand budgies” that follow you around eating something, they will be more interested in eating it, too. This might not work well since the birds are brand new to you and might not think of you as flock yet, but I’ve had decent luck with this as I’ve bonded with my bird. She always wants what I and those “other birds” on the ends of my arms have!


----------



## BudgieBirdie

Aozane said:


> Just some suggestions to try and help—
> 
> Do you have wild rice or lentils? You could try soaking these overnight and then offering them to the birds. There’s a sticky called “Sprout Everything” over in our Diet and Nutrition area that lists numerous grains within a mix that is rinsed, then soaked 8-12 hours, and optionally dried (some birds won’t touch the sprouted stuff wet, but some don’t mind it wet at all). Perhaps checking the list to see if you have any of the grains listed might help. I suggest this list because many things on it can look extremely similar to seeds to the point that the budgies will try them (I can at least say that worked for my budgie).
> 
> Cooked quinoa is also good for budgies if you have it and looks a bit like seeds. It is _VERY IMPORTANT_ though to make sure the quinoa is well-rinsed several times with hot water before cooking—it is initially covered with a substance that is toxic to budgies.
> 
> You could try corn or peas—they are smaller veggies and might look more like something to try eating. I’ve cut them up into tiny pieces so they’re almost seed-sized. Cooked sweet potato is good for them too, you could offer some mashed up to see if they‘ll investigate it.
> 
> What about herbs? Budgies can like “spicy” or strong herbal flavors—some forum budgies love a little garlic powder sprinkled on things, or dill. My budgie loves basil, and sometimes will nibble on mint. Maybe something that looks leafy, even if not familiar, might be interesting to play with and end up trying that way?
> 
> Another possibility—do you have any bell peppers? The seeds inside of a bell pepper might look familiar and edible to your birds.
> 
> To try and help the birds recognize veggies and grains they might not have had before, you can try and show the budgies that what you’re offering is food by eating some yourself (do not take a bite of something and then offer it to them though, there is bacteria in the human mouth that is bad for birds), or using your hand as a “budgie” and picking at the food as if the ”hand budgie“ were eating it. Budgies being flock animals, they often take cues on what it safe to eat from other flock members. So if they see you or the “hand budgies” that follow you around eating something, they will be more interested in eating it, too. This might not work well since the birds are brand new to you and might not think of you as flock yet, but I’ve had decent luck with this as I’ve bonded with my bird. She always wants what I and those “other birds” on the ends of my arms have!


Haha, thank you for the input. I'll go looking through the cupboard in the morning. I appreciate it! I'll update tomorrow.


----------



## StarlingWings

The white one does appear to be male  He is very pretty. 

Above are some good suggestions while you wait for some assistance or way to get seed; do you know if their previous owner actually fed the pellets? Pellets are generally now considered the major component of a healthy bird's diet as seeds do not have a complete nutritional profile. Budgies eating seeds in the wild also have other sources of nutrients such as insects, wild vegetation, etc. that domestic budgies do not have, so just eating fatty seeds is actually not an optimal diet. While I wouldn't normally recommend Kaytee pellets, they are definitely better than nothing, especially if they will eat them. However, most budgies take a long time to start eating pellets since initially they aren't used to seeing them; I would put them in the cage for starters and see if they recognize pellets as food. If not, you can try mixing them in with some veggies or soft food as mentioned above.


----------



## BudgieBirdie

StarlingWings said:


> The white one does appear to be male  He is very pretty.
> 
> Above are some good suggestions while you wait for some assistance or way to get seed; do you know if their previous owner actually fed the pellets? Pellets are generally now considered the major component of a healthy bird's diet as seeds do not have a complete nutritional profile. Budgies eating seeds in the wild also have other sources of nutrients such as insects, wild vegetation, etc. that domestic budgies do not have, so just eating fatty seeds is actually not an optimal diet. While I wouldn't normally recommend Kaytee pellets, they are definitely better than nothing, especially if they will eat them. However, most budgies take a long time to start eating pellets since initially they aren't used to seeing them; I would put them in the cage for starters and see if they recognize pellets as food. If not, you can try mixing them in with some veggies or soft food as mentioned above.


Thank you. I did see some pellets on the paper towels on the bottom of cage, so theyve at least tried them. But I will be getting some seed today, thankfully. I sell arts and crafts, (usually artwork of peoples pets, of any kind) and one of my commissions came through just in time. I appreciate everyone's help. I e never ran out of any pets food before so I kinda began to panic a little. Haha. Thank you for telling me he's a boy, I was off considering he's albino. I'm usually pretty good at taking bird genders, but like I said I never had to gender an albino. It makes sense with how the other treats him. He just must be a quiet little guy and not talk as much as the other male.



StarlingWings said:


> The white one does appear to be male  He is very pretty.
> 
> Above are some good suggestions while you wait for some assistance or way to get seed; do you know if their previous owner actually fed the pellets? Pellets are generally now considered the major component of a healthy bird's diet as seeds do not have a complete nutritional profile. Budgies eating seeds in the wild also have other sources of nutrients such as insects, wild vegetation, etc. that domestic budgies do not have, so just eating fatty seeds is actually not an optimal diet. While I wouldn't normally recommend Kaytee pellets, they are definitely better than nothing, especially if they will eat them. However, most budgies take a long time to start eating pellets since initially they aren't used to seeing them; I would put them in the cage for starters and see if they recognize pellets as food. If not, you can try mixing them in with some veggies or soft food as mentioned above.


Also, how did you know he's a male? Not being snarky, I'm genuinely interested in learning. I thought female from behavior and the nostrils are lighter than the rest. But I was unsure given how blue treated him. I know there's something about shiney and matte too. Thank you 😊


----------



## StarlingWings

Well, behavior actually isn't much help in telling gender. While its true that while hormones are raging females can be more aggressive, this is all contextual and has to be considered within the original temperament of budgie. For example, a female that is normally calm may get more aggressive when hormonal, but it may not be a "level" of aggressive that would be considered "aggressive". Additionally males also are very capable of being bullies or aggressive with or without hormonal influence, so it's just not a good indicator of gender. The biggest determinant of budgie flock dynamics is personality and doesn't have much to do with gender  

As for the cere, young males have a shiny, pink or purplish cere that is a little bit translucent, while young females can have whitish, beige, light blue, matte pinkish, or any combination of those colors. Their ceres tend to be flatter around the nostrils and not as translucent, and while "white rings" around the nostrils are usually a good indicator of this, some male budgies have lightness around their nostrils as well. In this situation the males would only have a pale version of a purple or blue color around their nostrils and not white or beige; the surrounding cere color would also be an indicator.


----------



## BudgieBirdie

StarlingWings said:


> Well, behavior actually isn't much help in telling gender. While its true that while hormones are raging females can be more aggressive, this is all contextual and has to be considered within the original temperament of budgie. For example, a female that is normally calm may get more aggressive when hormonal, but it may not be a "level" of aggressive that would be considered "aggressive". Additionally males also are very capable of being bullies or aggressive with or without hormonal influence, so it's just not a good indicator of gender. The biggest determinant of budgie flock dynamics is personality and doesn't have much to do with gender
> 
> As for the cere, young males have a shiny, pink or purplish cere that is a little bit translucent, while young females can have whitish, beige, light blue, matte pinkish, or any combination of those colors. Their ceres tend to be flatter around the nostrils and not as translucent, and while "white rings" around the nostrils are usually a good indicator of this, some male budgies have lightness around their nostrils as well. In this situation the males would only have a pale version of a purple or blue color around their nostrils and not white or beige; the surrounding cere color would also be an indicator.


Thank you, well said. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and will continue trying to learn all I can.


----------



## FaeryBee

*I'm very glad you have two males and will not have to worry about discouraging breeding. It makes life much simpler!*


----------



## BudgieBirdie

FaeryBee said:


> *I'm very glad you have two males and will not have to worry about discouraging breeding. It makes life much simpler!*


Im actually glad too. Breeding was an option, but I honestly wasn't looking forward to it. The past owner thought (obviously assumed now) they had been breeding, so I figured it may already be too late to discourage. I do still.plan to eventually get a baby I can bond with from a young age, but that can be in the long future now. Everything worked out so we're happy. Now I can work on these two boys bonding. Blue already seems nicer to White. They are now talking to each other and not blue to a mirror and white being made to stay away.


----------

