# Felix's Ongoing Pictures and Questions Thread



## supercath

Hi!

I am a surprised new budgie owner, having found one in the bush outside my apartment building.

I put my finger in front of his/her feet and they climbed on.














They stayed on my finger as I climbed up four flights of stairs to my apartment, and stayed when I put them in the bathroom.

I have birdseed from my birdfeeder, so I put that out and water. I ordered a small cage from Petco that will arrive today and I'll try to get a more spacious one with more time to research. I ordered some parakeet food from Amazon that will arrive tomorrow.

This budgie isn't flying... in fact I had to build a little staircase up to the food.

When I come in to use the bathroom, they chirp and when I put my hand out, they nibble on my finger. I can pet their chest and they close their eyes. Very endearing.

I'll be taking him/her to an avian vet when I can find one.

1) do you think it has a broken wing? Why isn't it flying?

2) what kind of things would I not know as a first time surprise budgie owner?


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## FaeryBee

*Hi, Welcome to Talk Budgies!

The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being

Thank you for rescuing this precious little bird! 💚 

From what I can see in the picture, the budgie looks very young and may not be flying yet because it has yet to develop its wing muscles sufficiently.
Why do you think it might have a broken wing? Is it holding one of the wings oddly?
Are you going to try to find the budgie's owner?
What size cage did you order from Petco at this time?

The budgie may not be tame. It may be submissive right now because it is unable to fly. Keep that in mind as you go forward.

Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*

*SITE GUIDELINES*

*Dangers to Pet Birds*

*List of Stickies*
*Posting on the Forums*
*Let's Talk Budgies!*
*FAQ*
*Articles*
*Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
*Avian First Aid*
*Quarantine IS Necessary!*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*

*Resource Directory*
*A heartfelt plea to forum members new and old*
*Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*The link below will help you locate an Avian Veterinarian
Avian Association of Veterinarians*


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## supercath

Hi FaeryBee, thank you for talking with me!

I am wondering if it has a broken wing because it is not flying. But hopefully it's just too young, like you said. It is a very tame bird. It seems to be holding its wings symmetrically.

If I see a "lost bird" sign I will contact the person, but my first assumption was that the bird was dumped. If it wasn't dumped, how could a flightless bird get out of an apartment? By the way, I live in NYC. I guess I have a suspicious mindset with found animals here, having worked with some animal rescues. 

The (temporary) cage I got was You & Me Cockatiel Ranch House Bird Cage, 20" L x 16" W x 29" H.

If I get to keep this bird, I have room for a much larger cage.

I ordered some parakeet toys from Amazon that will come tomorrow.

I will read the posts and articles when I am off work. Right now I am working remotely in the living room while the budgie is in the bathtub.

Thank you!


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## supercath

supercath said:


> Hi FaeryBee, thank you for talking with me!
> 
> I am wondering if it has a broken wing because it is not flying. But hopefully it's just too young, like you said. It is a very tame bird. It seems to be holding its wings symmetrically.
> 
> If I see a "lost bird" sign I will contact the person, but my first assumption was that the bird was dumped. If it wasn't dumped, how could a flightless bird get out of an apartment? By the way, I live in NYC. I guess I have a suspicious mindset with found animals here, having worked with some animal rescues.
> 
> The (temporary) cage I got was You & Me Cockatiel Ranch House Bird Cage, 20" L x 16" W x 29" H.
> 
> If I get to keep this bird, I have room for a much larger cage.
> 
> I ordered some parakeet toys from Amazon that will come tomorrow.
> 
> I will read the posts and articles when I am off work. Right now I am working remotely in the living room while the budgie is in the bathtub.
> 
> Thank you!


Sorry, regarding the "very tame bird" comment - I missed your comment that it may be being submissive. I will keep that in mind. So far it nibbles on my fingers and will chirp continuously if I am nearby, and lets me pet its chest. 

Earlier when I was trying to put some food near it, it ran onto my hand and ignored the food.


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## Cody

It is a very young bird as FaeryBee said, since you do not know how long it has been outside it could very well be dehydrated and malnourished. It is *critical* that the bird eats, if I were you I would go out to a pet store now and buy some spray millet and offer it to the bird, the seeds in the feeder may be too tough for such a young bird. If you cannot get the bird to eat you will need to consult an avian vet for assistance, here is a link, you can search for one in your area, if there are not any near you look for a vet that treats exotics as they also treat birds. https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803 I don't mean to alarm you but a bird that young cannot go without a daily source of nourishment.


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## supercath

It is eating the sunflower seeds and drinking water. After the birdcage arrives and I can put it in there, I will go to the pet store like you said and get some spray millet. Thank you for the suggestion.


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## Cody

It is good that it is eating something but sunflower seeds are very high in fat so make sure that you transition the bird off of them once you get proper budgie food. You can also break off a piece of the spray millet and soak it in water overnight to soften it a bit if the little one has trouble with it.


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## Little Birds

The bird is very precious! From what I can tell, it looks like a male. I might be wrong about his gender though. I am still working on identifying genders. And he looks young, as others said. It’s great that you rescued this poor thing. You should take it to an avian vet, however, to make sure it doesn’t have any illnesses.


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## supercath

Thank you everyone.

The cage arrived and I set him/her up inside.

It mostly likes to eat and drink and fall asleep with its head tucked in its back.

At one point, I stuck my fingers in the cage and it eagerly clambered and crawled awkardly all the way across the cage to nibble on my fingers and chatter.

Wouldn't that mean this little bird has got to be hand-raised? Or is it just stupefied and bored?

Reading about budgies and how social they are, I feel like I should get it a friend from the pet store.

But if it is really so young, what would that dynamic be like? Would it help or hurt?


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## Little Birds

If it is tucking its head in its back then that could be a sign of illness. I suggest taking it to an avian vet as soon as possible. 

I also suggest waiting a bit for the budgie to grow older until you get it a friend. Make sure you get it a friend of the same gender to prevent breeding.


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## supercath

6055474 said:


> If it is tucking its head in its back then that could be a sign of illness. I suggest taking it to an avian vet as soon as possible.
> 
> I also suggest waiting a bit for the budgie to grow older until you get it a friend. Make sure you get it a friend of the same gender to prevent breeding.


thank you. I have a carrying cage arriving soon and then I can make a vet appt.


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## FaeryBee

*I would not go out and get another budgie at this point in time. The budgie you have is very young. Take the time to get to know the little one and let it settle in for awhile. 

Extremely young Budgies aren’t going to be active right away. Additionally, it needs time to settle in to its new environment. It is normal for a budgie to initially be quiet.

There are many things which must be considered before bringing another budgie into the mix. I’ll send you a list when I’m back on my computer. Right now I’m trying to type this on my phone.
If you post a close up full frontal picture of the budgie’s cere taken in natural light, no flash and no direct sunlight, we can determine its gender. *


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> I would not go out and get another budgie at this point in time. The budgie you have is very young. Take the time to get to know the little one and let it settle in for awhile. Extremely young Budgies aren’t going to be active right away. Additionally, it needs time to settle I. To its new environment.
> There are many things which must be considered before bringing another budgie into the mix. I’ll send you a list when I’m back on my computer. Right now I’m trying to type this on my phone. If you post a full frontal picture of the budgie’s cere taken in natural light, no flash and no direct sunlight, we can determine its gender.


Thank you. I won't get a friend until it's older.

I'll try to get a picture of its cere. It's napping right now. It might have to wait until tomorrow as the natural light is fading here.


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## FaeryBee

*The information given to you by 6055474 was not accurate.*
*Budgies often "tuck their heads" when they are sleeping. It is not a sign of illness and is quite normal behavior for budgies.*
*I strongly recommend you take into consideration whose posts you are reading before taking their advice to heart. 

The Talk Budgies staff goes to great lengths to offer sound advice based on fact and research.*
*Staff members are: FaeryBee, Cody, StarlingWings and PoukieBear*
*Please use staff members information rather than that of members who may or may not have the knowledge and experience to be giving advice.

There are many things to take into consideration before getting another bird.*
*Do you really want another pet*

*1. If you decide to get another budgie in the future, please be sure to observe quarantine for the new budgie.
Quarantine means housing the new bird in a different cage in a different room than the current bird (as far away from the room the current bird is in as possible) for a period of 35-45 days.
Budgies mask symptoms when they are ill. Symptoms may not show up for over two weeks.
Often you will not even realize your bird is not well. Many budgie illnesses are airborne which is why you need to quarantine your new bird in a completely different room.*
*Quarantine your new bird!*
*Yes - Quarantine IS necessary*

*It is also a good idea to always take a new budgie in to see an Avian Vet for a "well-birdie" check-up. This allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet and the vet can establish a baseline for your bird in case of any future illnesses or injuries.
If there are no Avian Vets in your area, then finding an Exotic Pet Veterinarian who has experience in dealing with small birds is the next best option.

2. Introducing the new bird to the current bird*
*Introducing Two Budgies*

*3. Flock Dynamics*
*Differences and Dynamics in Flocks*
*Your Harmonious Flock*

*4. Where do you plan to get the new bird?
If the time comes when you decide to get your budgie a friend, I highly recommend considering getting a bird of the same gender from either a bird rescue organization or a shelter. 
These budgies need a good, safe and loving forever home.*

*If you are unable to adopt a rescue bird, please be sure to read the following:*

*Why you should buy from a Reputable/Ethical Breeder rather than a Big Box Pet Store*

*5. Vet Expense and Housing
Do you have the time, finances, etc to devote to another bird?
Are you ready, willing and able to house the new budgie separately on a permanent basis if it does not get along with your current bird after quarantine?*
*Be Prepared for Veterinary Expense*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *The information given to you by 6055474 was not accurate.*
> *Budgies often "tuck their heads" when they are sleeping. It is not a sign of illness and is quite normal behavior for budgies.*
> *I strongly recommend you take into consideration whose posts you are reading before taking their advice to heart.
> 
> The Talk Budgies staff goes to great lengths to offer sound advice based on fact and research.*
> *Staff members are: FaeryBee, Cody, StarlingWings and PoukieBear*
> *Please use staff members information rather than that of members who may or may not have the knowledge and experience to be giving advice.
> 
> There are many things to take into consideration before getting another bird.*
> *Do you really want another pet*
> 
> *1. If you decide to get another budgie in the future, please be sure to observe quarantine for the new budgie.
> Quarantine means housing the new bird in a different cage in a different room than the current bird (as far away from the room the current bird is in as possible) for a period of 35-45 days.
> Budgies mask symptoms when they are ill. Symptoms may not show up for over two weeks.
> Often you will not even realize your bird is not well. Many budgie illnesses are airborne which is why you need to quarantine your new bird in a completely different room.*
> *Quarantine your new bird!*
> *Yes - Quarantine IS necessary*
> 
> *It is also a good idea to always take a new budgie in to see an Avian Vet for a "well-birdie" check-up. This allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet and the vet can establish a baseline for your bird in case of any future illnesses or injuries.
> If there are no Avian Vets in your area, then finding an Exotic Pet Veterinarian who has experience in dealing with small birds is the next best option.
> 
> 2. Introducing the new bird to the current bird*
> *Introducing Two Budgies*
> 
> *3. Flock Dynamics*
> *Differences and Dynamics in Flocks*
> *Your Harmonious Flock*
> 
> *4. Where do you plan to get the new bird?
> If the time comes when you decide to get your budgie a friend, I highly recommend considering getting a bird of the same gender from either a bird rescue organization or a shelter.
> These budgies need a good, safe and loving forever home.*
> 
> *If you are unable to adopt a rescue bird, please be sure to read the following:*
> 
> *Why you should buy from a Reputable/Ethical Breeder rather than a Big Box Pet Store*
> 
> *5. Vet Expense and Housing
> Do you have the time, finances, etc to devote to another bird?
> Are you ready, willing and able to house the new budgie separately on a permanent basis if it does not get along with your current bird after quarantine?*
> *Be Prepared for Veterinary Expense*


FaeryBee I can't thank you enough for your time. I have been working my way through the articles and stickies. Everything is super helpful.

I'm glad the bird is just snoozing when its head is tucked in like that. He/she has been eating and sleeping throughout the day, not playing. I hope it's because it is a baby rather than because it is ill. In any event I'll be going to the avian vet when I get the cage carrier and can confirm the price.

I'll check out the information about getting a second bird. I'm worried this one will get lonely. I have cats and it will be hard to take it out of its cage often. It would not be able to fly freely here often. I would have to set up special time in a closed room. Anyway it cannot fly at all yet, only stumble around. In the meantime the budgie and the cats like touching noses through the cage.

I looked for "lost bird" flyers outside and checked on NextDoor. The fact that this bird cannot get around at all makes me suspicious that it could ever escape from somewhere. The reason I noticed the bird in the first place was because a woman was standing in front of my apartment building holding it on her finger. Then she put it in the bush outside my building door. I asked her if she found the bird there and she just walked away. It wouldn't have occurred to me to try to pick up a parakeet as we have wild monk parrots here. I just would have walked on by. But it got on my finger right away, and didn't want to come off when we finally got inside my bathroom. I tend to think the worst.... maybe she accidentally bred some budgies, and this was what she did with the babies. Put them in trees in NYC.

Anyway, I did not know there were bird rescues. I will try those first re: getting a second bird. I'm sure they will be unimpressed by the cats.

As for taking responsibility for this or another bird, I've been a devoted pet owner of cats, including rescuing, TNR, vet bills, keeping a lookout for toxic foods, etc., since I was a little kid. I'm a vegan and animal rights activist. I take pets very seriously. So I didn't hesitate to take this bird inside as its circumstances immediately felt very wrong, and I also know rehoming a rescued animal is next to impossible, so this bird became my responsibility, cats and vet bills and all. I've loved my birdfeeder but always thought an inside bird was a no go because of the cats. But unless there is a better home for this budgie, he's an honorary cat now.


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## supercath

supercath said:


> FaeryBee I can't thank you enough for your time. I have been working my way through the articles and stickies. Everything is super helpful.
> 
> I'm glad the bird is just snoozing when its head is tucked in like that. He/she has been eating and sleeping throughout the day, not playing. I hope it's because it is a baby rather than because it is ill. In any event I'll be going to the avian vet when I get the cage carrier and can confirm the price.
> 
> I'll check out the information about getting a second bird. I'm worried this one will get lonely. I have cats and it will be hard to take it out of its cage often. It would not be able to fly freely here often. I would have to set up special time in a closed room. Anyway it cannot fly at all yet, only stumble around. In the meantime the budgie and the cats like touching noses through the cage.
> 
> I looked for "lost bird" flyers outside and checked on NextDoor. The fact that this bird cannot get around at all makes me suspicious that it could ever escape from somewhere. The reason I noticed the bird in the first place was because a woman was standing in front of my apartment building holding it on her finger. Then she put it in the bush outside my building door. I asked her if she found the bird there and she just walked away. It wouldn't have occurred to me to try to pick up a parakeet as we have wild monk parrots here. I just would have walked on by. But it got on my finger right away, and didn't want to come off when we finally got inside my bathroom. I tend to think the worst.... maybe she accidentally bred some budgies, and this was what she did with the babies. Put them in trees in NYC.
> 
> Anyway, I did not know there were bird rescues. I will try those first re: getting a second bird. I'm sure they will be unimpressed by the cats.
> 
> As for taking responsibility for this or another bird, I've been a devoted pet owner of cats, including rescuing, TNR, vet bills, keeping a lookout for toxic foods, etc., since I was a little kid. I'm a vegan and animal rights activist. I take pets very seriously. So I didn't hesitate to take this bird inside as its circumstances immediately felt very wrong, and I also know rehoming a rescued animal is next to impossible, so this bird became my responsibility, cats and vet bills and all. I've loved my birdfeeder but always thought an inside bird was a no go because of the cats. But unless there is a better home for this budgie, he's an honorary cat now.
> 
> View attachment 257463


current setup with bird asleep on the wire tray. i cut up some bamboo sticks and put them in at angles since it couldn't get onto the dowel very well. also some small boxes on the trya to use as steps. cage toys arrive tomorrow.










for nighttime I plan to put the cage in the bathroom where it won't be so air conditioned and put a sheet over the cage.


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## FaeryBee

*Thanks for your detailed response. 
I agree with you - it sounds like the woman was abandoning the budgies. This just hurts my heart.
That is a tiny baby and should never have been separated from the Dad and its siblings at this age. That is why it is sitting at the bottom of the cage and sleeping so much.
It seems as though it is younger than 8 weeks from what I can see. 
Do everything you can to ensure it manages to continue eat and drink. If it starts regressing, you may have to give it supplemental feedings of mash or formula.
Thank you so much for taking in this baby and giving it the love and care it so deserves. It is SO fortunate to have ended up with you! 💚💚

Since you are such a responsible pet owner, I know you will be exceedingly careful that the cats do not harm your bird.
For the sake of other members, I'm going to attach a link that we ask that everyone read:*

*Cats and Dogs are Predators - Birds are Prey*

*I'll look forward to seeing more pictures of this precious baby tomorrow after it has had a good night's sleep.

By the way, since the budgie is so young it is going to bond very closely with you. You will be its flock! Start using a word or phrase with it and it will probably talk as well.*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Thanks for your detailed response.
> I agree with you - it sounds like the woman was abandoning the budgies. This just hurts my heart.
> That is a tiny baby and should never have been separated from the Dad and its siblings at this age. That is why it is sitting at the bottom of the cage and sleeping so much.
> It seems as though it is younger than 8 weeks from what I can see.
> Do everything you can to ensure it manages to continue eat and drink. If it starts regressing, you may have to give it supplemental feedings of mash or formula.
> Thank you so much for taking in this baby and giving it the love and care it so deserves. It is SO fortunate to have ended up with you! 💚💚
> 
> Since you are such a responsible pet owner, I know you will be exceedingly careful that the cats do not harm your bird.
> For the sake of other members, I'm going to attach a link that we ask that everyone read:*
> 
> *Cats and Dogs are Predators - Birds are Prey*
> 
> *I'll look forward to seeing more pictures of this precious baby tomorrow after it has had a good night's sleep.
> 
> By the way, since the budgie is so young it is going to bond very closely with you. You will be its flock! Start using a word or phrase with it and it will probably talk as well.*


Thank you for the cat/dog article.

I live alone so at least I can guarantee the rooms. 

After watching my cats respond to the bird feeder, I know we have very different opinions about birds. This little one will not be outside its cage except in a closed locked room.

I am sorry to learn it is that young. And I wish I knew what happened to its brothers and sisters.

Thank you for your encouraging words and all your time and help 💜


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## ChickWas

I would have said keep it even if there was a lost & found poster. You seem like a wonderful owner and it makes me happy knowing this little fluffball managed to find you. Since it's so young, go out and get superfine pellets (I love Harrison's High Potency Super Fine pellets), as getting the little goofer used to pellets from a young age will make life so much easier for you down the line. My two were much more open to trying new foods when they were just beginning to wean, I wish I'd started them on pellets then. Having their diet primarily consist of pellets, with a healthy amount of fresh veg, and then a little bit of seed will make them the best version of themself they can be.

As for him sleeping with his head tucked in, I wouldn't find that concerning. I'm also pretty sure it means they're at ease, as head tucking is a vulnerable position so they'd only do it in a location they feel safe. If he's as young as he is, my two pretty much just ate, pooped and slept when they were babies. They'd have tiny little spurts of activity, but a vast majority of the day was just filling up on food and then sleeping. Any time I'd bring them out of the cage, they'd just beeline to my shoulder, hunker up against my neck and under my ear, and sleep for hours on end.


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> I would have said keep it even if there was a lost & found poster. You seem like a wonderful owner and it makes me happy knowing this little fluffball managed to find you. Since it's so young, go out and get superfine pellets (I love Harrison's High Potency Super Fine pellets), as getting the little goofer used to pellets from a young age will make life so much easier for you down the line. My two were much more open to trying new foods when they were just beginning to wean, I wish I'd started them on pellets then. Having their diet primarily consist of pellets, with a healthy amount of fresh veg, and then a little bit of seed will make them the best version of themself they can be.
> 
> As for him sleeping with his head tucked in, I wouldn't find that concerning. I'm also pretty sure it means they're at ease, as head tucking is a vulnerable position so they'd only do it in a location they feel safe. If he's as young as he is, my two pretty much just ate, pooped and slept when they were babies. They'd have tiny little spurts of activity, but a vast majority of the day was just filling up on food and then sleeping. Any time I'd bring them out of the cage, they'd just beeline to my shoulder, hunker up against my neck and under my ear, and sleep for hours on end.


thank you for the encouraging words. The behavior you described sounds like this bird, eating, sleeping, and pooping!


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## supercath

Good morning!

We can't fly but we can climb!

Got some pics of the cere.


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## FaeryBee

*Your baby looks to be about 6 to 8 weeks old in this picture. He is a simply precious little MALE budgie!!
He can't fly simply because he has not yet developed his wing muscles enough to do so. 
Have you decided what you are going to name him? 💚💚*


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## ChickWas

Brace yourself for the cutest Rocky Balboa training montage scenes where he'll pump his little wings as hard as he can to get stronger.


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Your baby looks to be about 6 to 8 weeks old in this picture. He is a simply precious little MALE budgie!!
> He can't fly simply because he has not yet developed his wing muscles enough to do so.
> Have you decided what you are going to name him? 💚💚*


I'm not sure yet! 

Maybe I'll name him Rocky!

He is pretty spunky and unafraid. He comes to my hand in the cage. Doesn't care when the cats are next to him.

He's conked out again now.

I'll see what sticks.


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## FaeryBee

*Rocky would be a really cute name for him!*


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## Little Birds

FaeryBee said:


> *The information given to you by 6055474 was not accurate.*
> *Budgies often "tuck their heads" when they are sleeping. It is not a sign of illness and is quite normal behavior for budgies.*
> *I strongly recommend you take into consideration whose posts you are reading before taking their advice to heart.
> 
> The Talk Budgies staff goes to great lengths to offer sound advice based on fact and research.*
> *Staff members are: FaeryBee, Cody, StarlingWings and PoukieBear*
> *Please use staff members information rather than that of members who may or may not have the knowledge and experience to be giving advice.
> 
> There are many things to take into consideration before getting another bird.*
> *Do you really want another pet*
> 
> *1. If you decide to get another budgie in the future, please be sure to observe quarantine for the new budgie.
> Quarantine means housing the new bird in a different cage in a different room than the current bird (as far away from the room the current bird is in as possible) for a period of 35-45 days.
> Budgies mask symptoms when they are ill. Symptoms may not show up for over two weeks.
> Often you will not even realize your bird is not well. Many budgie illnesses are airborne which is why you need to quarantine your new bird in a completely different room.*
> *Quarantine your new bird!*
> *Yes - Quarantine IS necessary*
> 
> *It is also a good idea to always take a new budgie in to see an Avian Vet for a "well-birdie" check-up. This allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet and the vet can establish a baseline for your bird in case of any future illnesses or injuries.
> If there are no Avian Vets in your area, then finding an Exotic Pet Veterinarian who has experience in dealing with small birds is the next best option.
> 
> 2. Introducing the new bird to the current bird*
> *Introducing Two Budgies*
> 
> *3. Flock Dynamics*
> *Differences and Dynamics in Flocks*
> *Your Harmonious Flock*
> 
> *4. Where do you plan to get the new bird?
> If the time comes when you decide to get your budgie a friend, I highly recommend considering getting a bird of the same gender from either a bird rescue organization or a shelter.
> These budgies need a good, safe and loving forever home.*
> 
> *If you are unable to adopt a rescue bird, please be sure to read the following:*
> 
> *Why you should buy from a Reputable/Ethical Breeder rather than a Big Box Pet Store*
> 
> *5. Vet Expense and Housing
> Do you have the time, finances, etc to devote to another bird?
> Are you ready, willing and able to house the new budgie separately on a permanent basis if it does not get along with your current bird after quarantine?*
> *Be Prepared for Veterinary Expense*


I am sorry for responding inaccurately. I watch certain videos on budgies and that is where i got that info. I will try to double check my responses next time to make sure it doesn’t happen again.


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## FaeryBee

*


6055474 said:



I am sorry for responding inaccurately. I watch certain videos on budgies and that is where i got that info. I will try to double check my responses next time to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Click to expand...

6055474: It is best for you to leave responding to members' posts to the Talk Budgies Staff. 
I encourage you to read all the stickies and budgie articles to learn about budgies and the best practices for their health and well-being.
Trying to get information from videos, etc. is bound to lead to inaccurate information.*


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## Little Birds

Ok, thank you for your help. May you please tell me where I can find the stickies?


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## FaeryBee

*6055474: The stickies applying to specific topics are located at the top of that specific topic’s section through the forum. (e.g. stickies having to do with Diet and Nutrition are in that specific section of the forum). You also need to read all of the articles in each of the subsections of the Articles section of Talk Budgies.
Any other questions need to be addressed in a thread of your own, not in this member’s thread. *


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## supercath

toys arrived...

I put everything low down where he could reach them.

He likes the green straw ball the most.


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## FaeryBee

*How great is that!? It’s a excellent that he’s already showing interest in his new toys. What a brave and wonderful boy!!*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *How great is that!? It’s a excellent that he’s already showing interest in his new toys. What a brave and wonderful boy!!*


🥰🥰🥰


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## Cody

He is so adorable, glad to see him climbing on the bars, shows he has some energy. I see he is color coordinated with his green ball, lol. Are his droppings solid his vent looks like it may be a bit soiled, maybe from some loose droppings.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> He is so adorable, glad to see him climbing on the bars, shows he has some energy. I see he is color coordinated with his green ball, lol. Are his droppings solid his vent looks like it may be a bit soiled, maybe from some loose droppings.


His poop has changed since I found him yesterday. At first it was more solid and dark, then more runny and green after eating the sunflower seeds. He's on millet now, "Dr Harvey's Our Best Parakeet Food." 

What should his vent look like? Totally clean?


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## FaeryBee

*Not necessarily just yet. It may take a day or so for the loose droppings to clear. 
Once his digestive system has adjusted to the quality seed mix you purchased, then the vent area will clear up and at that time it should be totally clean.
You can gently wipe the vent area off with a damp cloth or Q-tip for him. You don't want to let the feces build up around the vent.
Since he's so young, you'll want to start introducing pellets and vegetables to him as well. In all probability he will take to them pretty quickly as he's just a baby. 💚 *


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## supercath

Thank you for the advice and suggestions!


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## StarlingWings

Hi there and welcome to the forums!

It’s great to have you on the forums, and you’ve come to a great place to learn even more about the best of budgie care practices.

Rocky (?) is an adorable little boy and I’m so glad you were able able to rescue him~ 

You’ve been given great advice and resources above by FaeryBee! Feel free to ask if you have any questions after reading through everything. It sounds like you’re doing all you can to make your little one comfortable!

Let us know things go~ I loved reading the updates and it seems he’s on the road to a very happy life! 

Cheers! 👋


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## supercath

StarlingWings said:


> Hi there and welcome to the forums!
> 
> It’s great to have you on the forums, and you’ve come to a great place to learn even more about the best of budgie care practices.
> 
> Rocky (?) is an adorable little boy and I’m so glad you were able able to rescue him~
> 
> You’ve been given great advice and resources above by FaeryBee! Feel free to ask if you have any questions after reading through everything. It sounds like you’re doing all you can to make your little one comfortable!
> 
> Let us know things go~ I loved reading the updates and it seems he’s on the road to a very happy life!
> 
> Cheers! 👋


Thank you so much! FaeryBee's advice has been invaluable. I wouldn't even have guessed he was a baby! Thank you for setting up this useful forum.


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## ChickWas

I don't think babies mind as much, but just a heads up that adding that many new toys at once may freak them out once they're older. Happened to me and I didn't realise until after that I'd caused Chick to have sensory overload and be trapped in a cage with a bunch of new scary looking objects that she hadn't had time to figure out and explore at her own pace. She was old enough that she could do small little flights (without much confidence), but young enough that she mainly crawled everywhere, so I was able to put her in the cage and she couldn't properly let me know that she didn't want to go in. She would freak out in the cage and desperately try to crawl out and I was confused, then it finally clicked that it was the toys. I'd thought she was just trying to get to me. Once I'd emptied the cage out she was A-Okay going inside 😕

If I buy a new toy that they haven't seen before, I leave it outside the cage somewhere they can see, but far enough not to threaten them. Over the course of a week, I'll let them get a closer look, hold it in my hands for them to stare at from my shoulders, hold treats on it so they come on down and touch it. Budgies are weird, sometimes they'll get scared of a toy they've had for weeks, because I shuffled it out of the cage for a few days. I think it took two weeks for them to realise the rope perches weren't snakes, and about a week for them to not take flight in terror from the seagrass net.


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> I don't think babies mind as much, but just a heads up that adding that many new toys at once may freak them out once they're older. Happened to me and I didn't realise until after that I'd caused Chick to have sensory overload and be trapped in a cage with a bunch of new scary looking objects that she hadn't had time to figure out and explore at her own pace. She was old enough that she could do small little flights (without much confidence), but young enough that she mainly crawled everywhere, so I was able to put her in the cage and she couldn't properly let me know that she didn't want to go in. She would freak out in the cage and desperately try to crawl out and I was confused, then it finally clicked that it was the toys. I'd thought she was just trying to get to me. Once I'd emptied the cage out she was A-Okay going inside 😕
> 
> If I buy a new toy that they haven't seen before, I leave it outside the cage somewhere they can see, but far enough not to threaten them. Over the course of a week, I'll let them get a closer look, hold it in my hands for them to stare at from my shoulders, hold treats on it so they come on down and touch it. Budgies are weird, sometimes they'll get scared of a toy they've had for weeks, because I shuffled it out of the cage for a few days. I think it took two weeks for them to realise the rope perches weren't snakes, and about a week for them to not take flight in terror from the seagrass net.


wow! I'll see how we do... I couldn't get his attention off the green ball. I tried to show him the new toys but he fell asleep in my hand.

If he doesn't engage with the new stuff I'll take it out and re-add it one at a time. This was helpful, thank you. Budgie psychology is new to me!


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## supercath

P.S. he gets on to my hand by himself, I've never picked him up, only invited him 💜


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## ChickWas

Oh my God, I WANT HIM! Don't you dare disappear on us, I want progress pics and update pics and 3 month birthday pics and all the pics.


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> Oh my God, I WANT HIM! Don't you dare disappear on us, I want progress pics and update pics and 3 month birthday pics and all the pics.


I'm thrilled that anyone wants pictures as my Facebook friends are a little mystified.

Here he is sleeping on his toy.


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## FaeryBee

*Since the baby is so young, getting him used to having new toys, perches, etc. added periodically to his cage should prevent any problems with him being afraid of new items as he grows up.
He's already learning that he can trust you to keep him safe (since he falls asleep in your hand!) so I doubt that there will be any issues with him becoming frightened of new things later on.
If he doesn't engage with the other toys you have in his cage right away, just leave them in his cage, that's perfectly fine. He'll get used to seeing them and over time will become curious about them.
You may find that you have to teach (or show) him how to play with some of the toys. You can also begin getting him used to having his cage moved from room to room.

I can move this thread over to the Budgie Pictures Section of the forum and make it an on-going picture thread so all future pictures can be posted in the same thread and will all be in one place. 
I'll wait to do that until you decide on his name so I can rename the thread for you at the same time.  

We LOVE pictures so the more you post, the better. 

He really is the sweetest, most cuddly and darling baby budgie ever!! 💚 💚 💚 *


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## supercath

I think his name is Felix!

It means "lucky" and "happy" in Latin.


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## supercath

also, it's so nice to have some people who are as excited about this budgie as I am. Thank you 🙏


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## supercath

I have some questions for today.

1) should I just get rid of my non-stick pans 100%? Or can I keep him in a different room when I cook? I live in a 550 sq ft apt. The bedroom is farthest away and does not get any vapors from the kitchen

2) the cleaning products that I use are Mrs Meyers for the floor and dishes and handsoap, organic cleaning wipes (made with essential oils) for the cat puke, and some spray cleaners from Method. Everything is basically scented. I'm happy to get rid of it, but just checking if that's necessary, and if so, what do you use to clean? Should I never use bleach again? Sometimes I mix a little bit in with the floors.

3) no more room sprays, air freshener spray in the bathroom, right?

general update: Lots of flapping and climbing, more solid poops today. This morning when we had our in-cage cuddle session, Felix kept trying to climb up my arm to get out. Next time we'll try it in a closed room. The feathers around his vent seem clean but they are not white, more yellowish? Is that their natural color?


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## Cody

Please read through the article in this link, it will explain about many household hazards and answer the questions you have asked. https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Household-Hazards-2013.pdf
Please discontinue allowing your cats contact with Felix, by allowing this you are setting the stage for disaster and I would hate to have little Felix killed by one of the cats , all it would take is one bite, even a playful one, and that would be the end. You may even find that as Felix gets older the sight of a cat may freak him out. You and I share some things in common, our eating habits and our love for cats and work with rescues. I have had cats for decades and still do but the cats are never allowed in the area of the house where the birds are.


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## supercath

[


Cody said:


> Please read through the article in this link, it will explain about many household hazards and answer the questions you have asked. https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Household-Hazards-2013.pdf
> Please discontinue allowing your cats contact with Felix, by allowing this you are setting the stage for disaster and I would hate to have little Felix killed by one of the cats , all it would take is one bite, even a playful one, and that would be the end. You may even find that as Felix gets older the sight of a cat may freak him out. You and I share some things in common, our eating habits and our love for cats and work with rescues. I have had cats for decades and still do but the cats are never allowed in the area of the house where the birds are.


Hi Cody,

My Brooklyn apartment is very small, 550 sq feet, just a bedroom, living room, bathroom, and kitchen. When I have not been in the apartment, or when I go to bed, Felix is in a cage locked in the bathroom. Otherwise he is in his cage literally inches next to me where I can watch him. If I set up different areas of the house for different animals, I am worried the cats will have less space and whoever is in a different room than me will feel neglected. I am hoping my workaround is to be beside Felix's cage when we are outside the bathroom. We haven't stepped outside the cage yet. We will do that during a special time in a locked, cat-free room. Please let me know your honest thoughts... maybe it would be better for him to be in a different home. I am hopeful though that we can pull it off with everyone being taken care of. I work from home so I'm only out of the apartment for exercise or errands.

Thank you for the link. I will read through it.

Cath


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## Cody

My honest thoughts are that it scares me. You have to take all senarios into consideration, I realize that you are new to birds and may not be familiar with their habits but lets run through one scenario. As Felix grows he will start flapping his wings at a great speed while holding onto his perch, he will become more active and therefore there will be more movement in his cage than there is right now, this motion will attract the cats, who could very quickly jump on the cage and knock it down, terrifying Felix and maybe allowing him to escape the cage, what would you do in this situation? When you lock Felix in the bathroom does it get really hot in there or is there a/c in there?


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## supercath

Cody said:


> My honest thoughts are that it scares me. You have to take all senarios into consideration, I realize that you are new to birds and may not be familiar with their habits but lets run through one scenario. As Felix grows he will start flapping his wings at a great speed while holding onto his perch, he will become more active and therefore there will be more movement in his cage than there is right now, this motion will attract the cats, who could very quickly jump on the cage and knock it down, terrifying Felix and maybe allowing him to escape the cage, what would you do in this situation? When you lock Felix in the bathroom does it get really hot in there or is there a/c in there?


Hi Cody,

Thank you for your honest thoughts. If you guys think it will not work out, I will try to find a better home for Felix. And just foster him till then.

I wanted to share more about our set up here.

I keep the cage on the floor next to me at all times. The center of gravity is low. If a cat were to try and knock it over, I would be sitting right next to the cage. If I have to leave the apartment, I lock the cage in the bathroom.

God forbid if somehow Felix did get out, I would lock the cats in a different room. That scenario does sound nightmarish and very scary.  Maybe I can secure his cage more with some zip ties to make it more breakproof?

I wanted to get him a bigger cage and now that you have pointed this scenario out to me, I could figure out a way to make it topple proof.

My thoughts about the cats is that if Felix stays here with us, he will have to be around cats the whole time. It's better if he's not afraid of them, making his life miserable, and they get desensitized to him as permanently unavailable (and not a forbidden pleasure in another room.) When I first got my birdfeeder, one of my cats crashed into the window because she was so excited. So scary. Now she just sits on the windowsill and chatters or sleeps. Even now she is asleep next to Felix's cage.

We haven't had a lot of heat since Felix got here, so the bathroom has been about 75 and the rest of the apartment 72 with the AC on. In the night it is cooler. It has a closed window that I never open because no screen fits it in the summer and it's too cold in the winter.
Thank you for your time,
Cath


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## supercath

supercath said:


> Hi Cody,
> 
> Thank you for your honest thoughts. If you guys think it will not work out, I will try to find a better home for Felix. And just foster him till then.
> 
> I wanted to share more about our set up here.
> 
> I keep the cage on the floor next to me at all times. The center of gravity is low. If a cat were to try and knock it over, I would be sitting right next to the cage. If I have to leave the apartment, I lock the cage in the bathroom.
> 
> God forbid if somehow Felix did get out, I would lock the cats in a different room. That scenario does sound nightmarish and very scary.  Maybe I can secure his cage more with some zip ties to make it more breakproof?
> 
> I wanted to get him a bigger cage and now that you have pointed this scenario out to me, I could figure out a way to make it topple proof.
> 
> My thoughts about the cats is that if Felix stays here with us, he will have to be around cats the whole time. It's better if he's not afraid of them, making his life miserable, and they get desensitized to him as permanently unavailable (and not a forbidden pleasure in another room.) When I first got my birdfeeder, one of my cats crashed into the window because she was so excited. So scary. Now she just sits on the windowsill and chatters or sleeps. Even now she is asleep next to Felix's cage.
> 
> We haven't had a lot of heat since Felix got here, so the bathroom has been about 75 and the rest of the apartment 72 with the AC on. In the night it is cooler. It has a closed window that I never open because no screen fits it in the summer and it's too cold in the winter.
> 
> Here are some photos of our setup.
> 
> This is us working from home since Friday:
> View attachment 257480
> 
> 
> Felix is a good assistant while I am on the phone:
> View attachment 257481
> 
> 
> 
> my work desk in the living room with assistants Felix and Sadie:
> View attachment 257482
> 
> 
> I move the cage next to the coffee table when I'm at the couch:
> View attachment 257483
> 
> 
> bathroom:
> View attachment 257484
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your time,
> Cath


I think the quality of life issue I'm more worried about is how he would have to be in the cage the whole time if he stayed here. 

I didn't want to get a pet bird for this reason, but since one fell in my lap I thought a life in here is better than on the street. But this plus the cats makes it seem a little sad for him.


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## ChickWas

I'm not commenting on the cats and safety as it isn't my forte. I love your setup, it's cozy. The one thing I'd suggest is getting a cheap little coffee table or something, to raise the cage height up. I'm not sure but I think being low to the ground and having everything else towering above them makes them feel vulnerable? My old cage didn't have a stand so I would place it on the floor and my budgies didn't like it. I got super lucky and found a cheap new cage that came with it's own stand, and they're a lot happier because they're higher up, and if I'm sitting at my desk they're at eye level. You could maybe look into hanging the cage, that way it's totally safe from being knocked over. Install a hook on the wall beside your desk or the window or something and just hang it up.

I think you can give Felix a great quality of life, you're a lovely owner. As for out-of-cage time, could you not just scoop the cats into the bedroom whenever you want to let Felix spread his wings? I know my mum's cats just sleep most of the day away, and they're almost always buried in the covers somewhere, snoozing. I don't think they'd feel neglected being put into the bedroom for an hour or two each day.

Added bonus of hanging the cage (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is you can confidently leave the apartment whenever and not worry about the cats getting to him. I think Felix would love chilling and vibing next to the window and seeing the room, rather than going in the bathroom.


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> I'm not commenting on the cats and safety as it isn't my forte. I love your setup, it's cozy. The one thing I'd suggest is getting a cheap little coffee table or something, to raise the cage height up. I'm not sure but I think being low to the ground and having everything else towering above them makes them feel vulnerable? My old cage didn't have a stand so I would place it on the floor and my budgies didn't like it. I got super lucky and found a cheap new cage that came with it's own stand, and they're a lot happier because they're higher up, and if I'm sitting at my desk they're at eye level. You could maybe look into hanging the cage, that way it's totally safe from being knocked over. Install a hook on the wall beside your desk or the window or something and just hang it up.
> 
> I think you can give Felix a great quality of life, you're a lovely owner. As for out-of-cage time, could you not just scoop the cats into the bedroom whenever you want to let Felix spread his wings? I know my mum's cats just sleep most of the day away, and they're almost always buried in the covers somewhere, snoozing. I don't think they'd feel neglected being put into the bedroom for an hour or two each day.


Thank you ChickWas. I put the cage on the coffee table at first, and then my cat Gerald started to push it off right away. So onto the floor we went. 

I love the hanging cage idea! Brilliant!!

Yes, I was planning to get some out of cage time for Felix, with the cats in another room. He can't fly yet, so I haven't taken him out. So you think an hour or two a day is enough for him? My friends with budgies seemed to let them have the whole house all day, flying from room to room. They came and sat on our bowls when we ate meals. (I lost touch with them 20 years ago, otherwise I'd be asking them about Felix! I remember one telling me that her budgie had "taken a shine" to a lighter and wouldn't let them pick it up.) So I felt sad that I wouldn't be able to offer a potential pet bird that kind of life, although I think birds are so beautiful and love to be near them. It's been such a delight to hold Felix (I invite him on my hand and he seems too young to know any better!)


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## ChickWas

You're his bird mama, and just thinking of that bird-in-hand picture makes me get all emotional. It's the most precious thing.









Something like this to hang it would be amazing, enough distance from the wall, and strong enough that you know it'll never fall. I don't know how confident you are in attaching stuff to walls, or whether your landlord would be okay with it.

An hour or two a day is plenty, and everyone has different circumstances. You've got cats to think about. The older Felix gets, and the closer you two become, I think the determining factor on how much time he gets out of the cage is going to be from you, as you'll be unable to resist cuddling with him on your shoulder. It's all about routine though, if Felix has only ever known an hour or two outside the cage, he'll come to expect it, and the rest of the time in the cage will be fine. My two run like clockwork, they spend an hour in the cage in the morning to eat and wake up, and then sit expectantly by the door to be let out. If I'm late in letting them out, they start a tiny riot. They're out most of the day but I've got no dangers or anything, and I love having them with me. I'd love giving them free rein of the house and letting them fly from room to room (especially the living room, as it's enormous and would be great for their flying), but people smoke and my circumstances don't allow it so they exist in my room only, and they're the two happiest clams I know.

My two are most active in the mornings, so I make it a priority to let them out then. They'd both fly so energetically after breakfast and it was lovely to see, but the one that instigates the flying is ill at the moment so they don't fly as much these days. Evening time is chill time, they don't fly around much then.

In terms of quality of life, you're _waaaaay_ up there. Don't worry!

PS: I learned the hard way that _too_ much out of cage time is a double edged sword. _So _much anxiety in their younger days, as I had them out of the cage from sunrise to sunset. They started thinking my bedroom was their whole cage, and would despise being locked up if I had to leave. A lot of angry crying, trying to break out between the bars, not settling down and just all of us being 100% stressed. They're a lot better these days, but it took so long to make them realise the cage is their home and out of cage time is a treat. So if anything, your one or two hours is better for everyone involved


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## Cody

If you are going to attach it to the wall you should attach it somehow so that it does not move or swing around.


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## supercath

[


ChickWas said:


> You're his bird mama, and just thinking of that bird-in-hand picture makes me get all emotional. It's the most precious thing.
> 
> View attachment 257485
> 
> 
> Something like this to hang it would be amazing, enough distance from the wall, and strong enough that you know it'll never fall. I don't know how confident you are in attaching stuff to walls, or whether your landlord would be okay with it.
> 
> An hour or two a day is plenty, and everyone has different circumstances. You've got cats to think about. The older Felix gets, and the closer you two become, I think the determining factor on how much time he gets out of the cage is going to be from you, as you'll be unable to resist cuddling with him on your shoulder. It's all about routine though, if Felix has only ever known an hour or two outside the cage, he'll come to expect it, and the rest of the time in the cage will be fine. My two run like clockwork, they spend an hour in the cage in the morning to eat and wake up, and then sit expectantly by the door to be let out. If I'm late in letting them out, they start a tiny riot. They're out most of the day but I've got no dangers or anything, and I love having them with me. I'd love giving them free rein of the house and letting them fly from room to room (especially the living room, as it's enormous and would be great for their flying), but people smoke and my circumstances don't allow it so they exist in my room only.
> 
> My two are most active in the mornings, so I make it a priority to let them out then. They'd both fly so energetically after breakfast and it was lovely to see, but the one that instigates the flying is ill at the moment so they don't fly as much these days. Evening time is chill time, they don't fly around much then.
> 
> In terms of quality of life, you're _waaaaay_ up there. Don't worry!
> 
> PS: I learned the hard way that _too_ much out of cage time is a double edged sword. _So _much anxiety in their younger days, as I had them out of the cage from sunrise to sunset. They started thinking my bedroom was their whole cage, and would despise being locked up if I had to leave. A lot of angry crying, trying to break out between the bars, not settling down and just all of us being 100% stressed. They're a lot better these days, but it took so long to make them realise the cage is their home and out of cage time is a treat. So if anything, your one or two hours is better for everyone involved


This was so encouraging to read and has given me some hope that maybe Felix can stay here. Thank you for writing that all up.

Usually I just hire someone to hang things so I think this could work for sure.

The hours of flight time you mentioned was also really helpful in getting some perspective. And it makes sense that it happens at a certain time of day. Maybe I could get the cats fed and settled in the bedroom, and then start my day at work in the living room with Felix out for the first couple of hours. A nice routine that everyone expects and understands. Right now I'm hoping to get Felix used to the cats and used to being moved from one place to another. He's so happy go lucky (Felix means "happy" and "lucky" in Latin) that I honestly can't imagine what it looks like when he's upset. I guess I'll find out once he's a teenager.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> If you are going to attach it to the wall you should attach it somehow so that it does not move or swing around.


Thank you - so do you think a wall cage could solve the danger posed by the cats?


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## supercath

I could put something here and the cats wouldn't be able to get to it because of the windows. The radiator is so weak in the winter that I use two space heaters (which I now have to rethink because of the teflon).


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## ChickWas

It depends on the space heater, but I read online that it's only when the heater is brand new that it can release teflon fumes. When it was cold in January though, I just bought a cheapo oil heater to be safe.

Edited by FaeryBee: Please refer to the following Link for accurate information.

*Teflon and Non-Stick Coating Toxicity*


*No teflon, or other polymer coated surfaces in the model you select! Since your unit will be heated for hours at a time, it is of the utmost importance that you be certain there will be no PTFEs in your birds air space. Call the manufacturer for assurance in this area and don’t forget to ask about the safety of the fan unit in any ceramic model. It is always wise to run whatever heater you decide upon in the garage, away from the birds and family, for a day to burn off any factory machine oils or other substances.*
*Make sure your unit has a feature that maintains a constant room temperature. A small room will overheat quickly without this precaution in place.*
*Your heater should have necessary safety features to prevent a fire. One such feature is an automatic shut off if the unit is tipped over.*


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> It depends on the space heater, but I read online that it's only when the heater is brand new that it can release teflon fumes. When it was cold in January though, I just bought a cheapo oil heater to be safe.


oil heaters! easy. thank you!

*Added by FaeryBee
Please be sure you read the information in this link:*
*Teflon and Non-Stick Coating Toxicity
*

*No teflon, or other polymer coated surfaces in the model you select! Since your unit will be heated for hours at a time, it is of the utmost importance that you be certain there will be no PTFEs in your birds air space. Call the manufacturer for assurance in this area and don’t forget to ask about the safety of the fan unit in any ceramic model. It is always wise to run whatever heater you decide upon in the garage, away from the birds and family, for a day to burn off any factory machine oils or other substances.*
*Make sure your unit has a feature that maintains a constant room temperature. A small room will overheat quickly without this precaution in place.*
*Your heater should have necessary safety features to prevent a fire. One such feature is an automatic shut off if the unit is tipped over.*
*With regard to cookware:
All birds have sensitive respiratory systems and PTFE poisoning can cause a traumatic and painful death to birds. 
There has been much debate over the exact temperature at which these fumes occur. 
Ensure any non-stick cookware does not have PTFEs.*

He flew!!! It was half a second but he was beating his wings and it moved him across the wall of the cage.

And just now as I was typing this he beat his wings and it moved him down the dowel he was standing on.

I can't be sure but I think sometimes he likes to come to where my hand is on the cage. I've had my hand here for about 10 minutes. I'm trying to make up for the fact that he can't come out very much by keeping the cage close by and my hand available.










(asleep):


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## Cody

I think a cat could easily jump on top of your shelf above your computer monitor and then jump to the cage on the wall. I would not use a teflon space heater. Is it cold in your apartment because the landlord does not provide adequate heat or do you need to bleed the radiators? I have restored several old houses with hot water and steam radiators, air gets trapped in the pipes in a hot water system and if that is not removed the hot water cannot circulate and you do not get adequate heat. Bleeding a radiator is the term used for removing the air, once removed the radiators will be hot provided the boiler is functioning.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> I think a cat could easily jump on top of your shelf above your computer monitor and then jump to the cage on the wall. I would not use a teflon space heater. Is it cold in your apartment because the landlord does not provide adequate heat or do you need to bleed the radiators? I have restored several old houses with hot water and steam radiators, air gets trapped in the pipes in a hot water system and if that is not removed the hot water cannot circulate and you do not get adequate heat. Bleeding a radiator is the term used for removing the air, once removed the radiators will be hot provided the boiler is functioning.


I can take that white shelf down if it means Felix can stay. I was disappointed when I put it up and my elderly cats were too scared to go up there. The youngest cat is 7 and the oldest is 18.

I don't know how to bleed radiators. Mine usually leak and the superintendent needs to come in every winter and replace a knob here or there. 

But if we did get that radiator to be actually hot, I wouldn't want to bake a cage right above it. I like that space because it's next to my desk and I would easily be able to keep fiddling with a bird there. Maybe I could just get an oil heater? I also use electric blankets.

My building is not very well maintained. During the winter, the radiators sound like the mines of Moria. In NYC there is a law that landlords ensure the minimum temperature in a rented apartment is 62 at night and 68 during the day. So if you complain about the heat to your landlord but the temperature doesn't go below those numbers, they won't fix anything. (In case you think 68 is fine, it's not, it's freezing!! I can't feel my toes at 68.)


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## supercath

Gerald has been intrigued with the sheet that goes over Felix's cage and wants to poke his head in.

Then it occurred to me to give Gerald his own sheet at night.

EDIT: Please note this is Gerald in a different room under his own sheet.


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## Cody

Is that Gerald under the sheet with the bird cage? If so you should really not allow this, it is establishing the fact for the cat that it is ok when in fact it could be a stalking behavior.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> Is that Gerald under the sheet with the bird cage? If so you should really not allow this, it is establishing the fact for the cat that it is ok when in fact it could be a stalking behavior.


No no no of course he's not under the sheet with the cage!! I gave Gerald his own sheet in a different room! I propped it up on a hamper.


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## supercath

we went to a locked room and I took Felix out of the cage. He flew right away and went to the top of the window. (The windows are closed except for a screen, bottom right.)

Maybe he could fly before but was too weak the first day? The first day he wouldn't leave the bathtub.

Here is him on top of the left window:









here he is on Friday not leaving the bathtub all day:









he's sitting up there making crackly sounds.


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## ChickWas

Those seeds seem way too big for a budgie to eat, are you sure it's for budgies? 

Also, if your budgie is making crackly sounds, you've got one happy budgie on your hands.


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> Those seeds seem way too big for a budgie to eat, are you sure it's for budgies?
> 
> Also, if your budgie is making crackly sounds, you've got one happy budgie on your hands.


if you're talking about the seeds in the bathtub photo, he was getting food from the birdfeeder bag until I could finish work and get him some millet. He ate the sunflower seeds out of the birdfeeder mix. 

He's silent now. I hope he knows how to get back down!


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## FaeryBee

*The welfare of Felix needs to be the primary concern in all that is considered.

As an administrator of the forum, I believe that our goal must be to present the facts as they stand .

Having a cat and a bird in the same room the majority of the time is a huge risk and a commitment on the part of the owner to be vigilant at all times. 

Hanging cages with cats really aren't as good an idea as members may think. Additionally it is difficult to safely hang a large cage. 
Many cats will jump very high given the chance and, as Cody has indicated, once Felix begins moving around more, flapping his wings, making noise, etc. Gerald is going to become much more interested in him.

Felix is going to need a flight cage since the majority of his time will be in the cage. This must be a larger cage than he has now and will not be easy to secure to the wall.
I have a cage in mind and will find a link to it to give you later this morning. The cage is larger, is secured to a stand, is sturdy and will not be easy to knock over easily.
It is on rollers and I believe you can fit it through the door and it should be able to be moved into your bathroom when necessary. 

I'm not saying that keeping Felix is impossible. However, you are going to have to be aware that even leaving the room to use the bathroom is time that Felix will be unsupervised in the room with Gerald.
I also understand the desire to keep Felix and provide him a safe and loving home. The fact that you are exploring every possibility on how to keep Felix safe is a testament to your commitment to his welfare.
The situation you are in is not the most desirable for having a budgie,
With your background in animal rescue, along with your knowledge and willingness to do what is necessary for his safety, I believe keeping him is possible

Overall, this forum does NOT promote keeping birds in the same room with cats and I'm concerned this thread is giving a mixed message to other members.
At the same time, I know there are people in the world that successfully keep their birds in the same room where other animals are housed and that is completely their choice.
Every owner must accept the full risk and responsibility of the animals under their care. Emotion cannot be allowed to be the ruling factor there must be a balance with the facts.
I believe that you are doing everything to ensure that.

You are going to need to make your decisions after carefully considering all the possible scenarios, your level of time and commitment to ensuring you can care for this budgie for his entire life if you choose to keep him, and how to balance the risks in such a way to provide the best possible care. 

Our Site Guidelines prohibit pictures showing budgies in what can be considered a dangerous situation for the bird.
These include all pictures which show a budgie in the same picture with a dog or cat. Please keep this in mind when you post pictures in the future.
Please make sure the pictures you post of Felix do not include Gerald in the photo.*


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## supercath

I will take the questionable pictures down now.

I am always with Felix when the cats are present. I work from home.

I am very appreciative that you would discuss with me how to make this work.

PS not to be gross but in the interests of animal welfare talk, with Felix's little cage he can come in the bathroom with me and not be with the cats. It's not a bother as the feeling of leaving him alone is worse.

anyway fight time update:

he went to the top of the window and stayed there for 15 minutes until I went to get him. He went onto my hand easily. I slowly walked back to the cage and sat in front of it. There was no flapping at all on the way back. Maybe he surprised himself with his big flight.

When he didn't seem to want to go back in the cage (I would stick my hand in the cage and he would walk back up my arm), we hung out for a few more minutes. But he could not resist the siren call of millet and soon went back in himself.


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## FaeryBee

*You have impressed me so much already. 💜💜
I really want this situation to work out for you.
I'm going to look for the link to the cage I have in mind and will post it shortly. 
Then you can see if you think the cage will work within the space you have and will be able to move easily from your main room into the bathroom.

Edit:
This is the cage I have in mind for Felix. The cage itself is 24.2 Long x 16.5 wide x 30’ High With the stand, the Height is 54" *
*Possible Flight Cage for Felix*


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## Cody

That's great that he had his first flight experience in the house. For the future flight times you should lower the blinds or get a sheer cover for the windows because he will not realize there is glass there and fly right into the window and possibly injure himself. Also as he gets older and really starts zooming around the room you may find it will become more difficult to get him back into his cage, stock up on the millet.


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *You have impressed me so much already. 💜💜
> I really want this situation to work out for you.
> I'm going to look for the link to the cage I have in mind and will post it shortly.
> Then you can see if you think the cage will work within the space you have and will be able to move easily from your main room into the bathroom.
> 
> Edit:
> This is the cage I have in mind for Felix. The cage itself is 24.2 Long x 16.5 wide x 30’ High With the stand, the Height is 54" *
> *Possible Flight Cage for Felix*


Thank you! I will take some measurements and get back to you!



Cody said:


> That's great that he had his first flight experience in the house. For the future flight times you should lower the blinds or get a sheer cover for the windows because he will not realize there is glass there and fly right into the window and possibly injure himself. Also as he gets older and really starts zooming around the room you may find it will become more difficult to get him back into his cage, stock up on the millet.


omg, I hadn't thought about the blinds, thank you!


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## supercath

I took some video of our cuddling

he's very nibbly


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## Cody

He is just so sweet, budgies do touch things and nibble a lot with their beak, that is their way of exploring so you may see him do that to many different things. You are very lucky that this little guy is so mellow.


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## supercath

Just some updates -

For flight time he just slept on my hand for 20 minutes. 

During work I had to type one-handed.




















My priorities right now are to sort out new cleaning supplies before my cleaning lady comes Saturday. (I'm not rich I'm just a slob who needs professional supervision.) Then a flight cage.

The carrying cage should arrive tomorrow and then I need to sort out an avian vet. Using the search link you guys gave me, there doesn't seem to be one in my immediate neighborhood (11204) but google maps show some vets that seem to have an avian specialty (Brooklyn, NY). I'll post what I find when I get to that point, before I make an appointment.

The cats are less interested in Felix than ever, but the box his cage came in remains hotly contested.


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## supercath

he has his left foot on the bars, his right foot on my fingers, and is sleeping with his head tucked into his back. and I'm stuck here until he wakes up 










he looks like a muppet character


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## FaeryBee

*Felix is so adorable I would want to be holding or touching him every second.
However, I think your little guy may be getting just a wee bit too spoiled. 
You don't want him to get to the point where he has to have your attention every minute.
He's going to need to get used to having some time where he has to entertain himself, nap, etc.
Otherwise, he may develop such an attachment that he ends up with separation anxiety.

Take a look at this thread:*
*Using Positive Reinforcement in Training*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Felix is so adorable I would want to be holding or touching him every second.
> However, I think your little guy may be getting just a wee bit too spoiled.
> You don't want him to get to the point where he has to have your attention every minute.
> He's going to need to get used to having some time where he has to entertain himself, nap, etc.
> Otherwise, he may develop such an attachment that he ends up with separation anxiety.
> 
> Take a look at this thread:*
> *Using Positive Reinforcement in Training*


Thank you. We are indeed swiftly becoming codependent.

I guess I've been worried reading about birds needing to bond to something, that they should never get bored, and that Felix is stuck in his cage.

How much one-on-one time is good for him and how much is bad? I'm basically his large plaything while I'm at my desk 7 hours a day next to him.

I also wonder if a 2nd budgie friend would help. (I.e. help _me_ not feel neurotic about Felix's mental health)

So far he's been too busy eating or playing to notice when I put him in the bathroom. How can he be so ideal and perfectly tempered and adorable?

Thank you for the positive reinforcement article. It works the same with cats, except Gerald, who prefers the thrill of the water sprayer. He will get up next to a [non-toxic] houseplant, look me in the eye, and slowly start to chew on it. Meanwhile showing him the cat plants in the kitchen is like giving children raisins on Holloween.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Being near the cage and talking with Felix is fine. Just don't think you need to be touching him continually. 
He needs time in the cage to just explore what is there and to entertain himself. If he thinks that every time he comes over to the side nearest you that you'll stop and pet him, hold him or touch him then that is going to be his expectation in the future.
If you believe you're going to be working from home forever and will have hours every day to spend with him, then he doesn't necessarily need a same species friend. 
Spending 3 or 4 hours a day closely interacting is fine. You and Felix have already bonded tightly. Felix considers you his flock mate. He doesn't need constant reassurance at this time. He's past that now.

There are always a lot of things you must take into consideration before deciding to get a same species friend.*

*Do you really want another pet*

*1. If you decide to get another budgie in the future, please be sure to observe quarantine for the new budgie.
Quarantine means housing the new bird in a different cage in a different room than the current bird (as far away from the room the current bird is in as possible) for a period of 35-45 days.
Budgies mask symptoms when they are ill. Symptoms may not show up for over two weeks.
Often you will not even realize your bird is not well. Many budgie illnesses are airborne which is why you need to quarantine your new bird in a completely different room.*
*Quarantine your new bird!*
*Yes - Quarantine IS necessary*.
*In your apartment, Quarantining a new budgie is going to be practically impossible. It would be important to weigh the the risk of not following quarantine.

It is also a good idea to always take a new budgie in to see an Avian Vet for a "well-birdie" check-up. This allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet and the vet can establish a baseline for your bird in case of any future illnesses or injuries.
If there are no Avian Vets in your area, then finding an Exotic Pet Veterinarian who has experience in dealing with small birds is the next best option.

2. Introducing the new bird to the current bird*
*Introducing Two Budgies*

*3. Flock Dynamics*
*Differences and Dynamics in Flocks*
*Your Harmonious Flock*
*Are you ready, willing and able to house the new budgie separately on a permanent basis if it does not get along with your current bird after quarantine?

4. Where do you plan to get the new bird?
If the time comes when you decide to get your budgie a friend, I highly recommend considering getting a bird of the same gender from either a bird rescue organization or a shelter.*
*These budgies need a good, safe and loving forever home.
Why you should buy from a Reputable/Ethical Breeder rather than a Big Box Pet Store


5. Vet Expense and Housing

Do you have the time, finances, etc to devote to another bird?
Be Prepared for Veterinary Expense 
Avian Association of Veterinarians*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Being near the cage and talking with Felix is fine. Just don't think you need to be touching him continually.
> He needs time in the cage to just explore what is there and to entertain himself. If he thinks that every time he comes over to the side nearest you that you'll stop and pet him, hold him or touch him then that is going to be his expectation in the future.
> If you believe you're going to be working from home forever and will have hours every day to spend with him, then he doesn't necessarily need a same species friend.
> Spending 3 or 4 hours a day closely interacting is fine. You and Felix have already bonded tightly. Felix considers you his flock mate. He doesn't need constant reassurance at this time. He's past that now.
> 
> There are always a lot of things you must take into consideration before deciding to get a same species friend.*
> 
> *Do you really want another pet*
> 
> *1. If you decide to get another budgie in the future, please be sure to observe quarantine for the new budgie.
> Quarantine means housing the new bird in a different cage in a different room than the current bird (as far away from the room the current bird is in as possible) for a period of 35-45 days.
> Budgies mask symptoms when they are ill. Symptoms may not show up for over two weeks.
> Often you will not even realize your bird is not well. Many budgie illnesses are airborne which is why you need to quarantine your new bird in a completely different room.*
> *Quarantine your new bird!*
> *Yes - Quarantine IS necessary*.
> *In your apartment, Quarantining a new budgie is going to be practically impossible. It would be important to weigh the the risk of not following quarantine.
> 
> It is also a good idea to always take a new budgie in to see an Avian Vet for a "well-birdie" check-up. This allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet and the vet can establish a baseline for your bird in case of any future illnesses or injuries.
> If there are no Avian Vets in your area, then finding an Exotic Pet Veterinarian who has experience in dealing with small birds is the next best option.
> 
> 2. Introducing the new bird to the current bird*
> *Introducing Two Budgies*
> 
> *3. Flock Dynamics*
> *Differences and Dynamics in Flocks*
> *Your Harmonious Flock*
> *Are you ready, willing and able to house the new budgie separately on a permanent basis if it does not get along with your current bird after quarantine?
> 
> 4. Where do you plan to get the new bird?
> If the time comes when you decide to get your budgie a friend, I highly recommend considering getting a bird of the same gender from either a bird rescue organization or a shelter.
> These budgies need a good, safe and loving forever home.
> Why you should buy from a Reputable/Ethical Breeder rather than a Big Box Pet Store
> 
> 
> 5. Vet Expense and Housing
> 
> Do you have the time, finances, etc to devote to another bird?
> Be Prepared for Veterinary Expense
> Avian Association of Veterinarians*


Thank you as always for your time and help!!

We survived a workday without holding hands the whole time, just the last half hour. He likes to get my fingers in the cage, perch on them and sleep there.










His right foot is on my fingers. Yes my ugly nail polish will come off soon, I'm just a little busy and haven't had time to research all my household chemicals.

In December or January I will be on a 2-3 month work trip. After that I will be at home for 6 months, then maybe a 2-6 weeks trip after that. These trips are why I am thinking about a friend for Felix. My mom had budgies as a girl and is beyond excited about Felix. Maybe she can take him for that time.

I'm amazed that you would say he is bonded already, as I didn't expect that. Cat timetables are a bit longer. In fact, my cats sometimes don't notice when I have been away. 🤦‍♀️

Maybe I can talk to the rescue here and explain the situation and ask about an audition period for a second budgie. The cat shelter I used to volunteer with had a no questions asked return policy. As for a quarantine period... I didn't realize it would be a challenge with the attention and the cats. I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I can temporarily shut off the bedroom??

Other updates - for flight time he sat on my lap for 10 minutes, then took off. He seemed to not really know where he was going and bumped his head on the ceiling, couldn't figure out how to land on the blinds or the exercise bike and settled on the clothes rack. He sat there another 10 minutes. Then he started chirping and I put up my hand and called him. To my amazement, he came, but he missed my hand and landed on my shoulder!










Sorry for crazy laundry and hair, I did not expect to take this picture. Spray bottles behind me are out of use until researched, as are all products in my home.

Another question - so he needs pellets for proper nutrition? Could you please recommend some pellets for him? Should I still include the seed mix? His cage floor grate is too high up for him to forage, about an inch and a half above the paper. But I will be getting a bigger cage as soon as I can catch up with the cleaning products issue. Maybe that will have a different floor. EDIT: Just adding that I did read through the feeding articles on the website but still wasn't exactly sure what to do.

Also - he hears sparrows, finches, and cardinals chirping outside (in neighborhood trees, not my currently empty birdfeeder) and this makes him chirp super loudly. Just mentioning this in case it turns out to be salient.

Thank you for everything.


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## Cody

He just gets sweeter day by day. When you are away it would be best to have your mom take him into her home and care for him. If you get him a friend you may find that you will lose some of the closeness you have with him, as a bird will usually be a bird best friend and with you being away for an extended period of time that will give Felix the time to develop a friendship/bond with the bird. In the next few months you will see how your relationship develops and if he stays as tame as he is now which may influence your decision on getting another bird. 
It is common when a bird first starts flying in a new space to crash into things, this will eventually stop once he gets his bearings in the room.
There are many brands of pellets and it can be quite a challenge to get a bird to eat them as they do not recognize them as something edible. ZuPreem Fruit Blend Flavor FruitBlend® Flavor with Natural Flavors - Zupreem Pet in the canary size is one that people have pretty good luck with also Harrisons super fine is another HIGH POTENCY SUPER-FINE-Harrison's Bird Foods each individual pellet in both of these is about the size of 1 millet seed which makes it easier for them to eat. Yes you can still give a seed mix but the idea is to not have the seed be the major part of the diet.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> He just gets sweeter day by day. When you are away it would be best to have your mom take him into her home and care for him. If you get him a friend you may find that you will lose some of the closeness you have with him, as a bird will usually be a bird best friend and with you being away for an extended period of time that will give Felix the time to develop a friendship/bond with the bird. In the next few months you will see how your relationship develops and if he stays as tame as he is now which may influence your decision on getting another bird.
> It is common when a bird first starts flying in a new space to crash into things, this will eventually stop once he gets his bearings in the room.
> There are many brands of pellets and it can be quite a challenge to get a bird to eat them as they do not recognize them as something edible. ZuPreem Fruit Blend Flavor FruitBlend® Flavor with Natural Flavors - Zupreem Pet in the canary size is one that people have pretty good luck with also Harrisons super fine is another HIGH POTENCY SUPER-FINE-Harrison's Bird Foods each individual pellet in both of these is about the size of 1 millet seed which makes it easier for them to eat. Yes you can still give a seed mix but the idea is to not have the seed be the major part of the diet.


Thank you! I just ordered the pellets. I may have missed this somewhere but how much in pellets and seeds should I give Felix each day?

I'm thinking I would rather get Felix a friend before I go away, so that it's not as big of a change for him to go to my mom. He'd have the constant bird companion that he's used to. I like our closeness but not if it screws him up when I go away.

Thank you for your time and patience and knowledge!


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## supercath

Maybe we could call this Felix's ongoing pictures and question thread 🤦‍♀️

I've started trying a system where I only handle him during flight time in the closed bedroom 2x a day for about 25 minutes each time. In the living room, he has to entertain himself. I thought this would help him adjust faster because he would see the difference and not have an expectation to be cuddled in the living room. But it was super sad this morning when he just stuck to the side of the cage nearest me chirping loudly and ignoring his toys. I'm so grateful to FaeryBee for alerting me to this problem and I hope we are on the way to a better system. This afternoon he started checking out his toys and isn't doing the loud chirping, just bustling around.

Today I noticed he has a lot of poop stuck to his vent. Looking up budgie symptoms, I also learned that he is tail-bobbing, which he has done the whole time I've had him.

Here is the very fancy Manhattan vet I'm trying to get an appointment at - www.avianandexoticvets.com, about an hour and a half away from me in vetless Brooklyn. They are across the street from a bird rescue called Wild Bird Fund, where I've taken a few hurt wild starlings. They have all sort of free roaming permanent birbs wandering the lobby from swans to doves. I'll try to take a picture when we go.

[EDIT: Their earliest appointment was August 16. I told them about the poop and the tail-bobbing, and they said if anything changes with his eating or energy level, then I can bring him in the same day. Otherwise we have to wait. Felix loves eating and climbing around so I hope we wil be good until then.]

Flight time - lots of flying today!

Pellets arrive tomorrow. Any advice on feeding proportions and measurements would be very appreciated.










Lots of this today. Is his back itchy?










if you zoom into his button eyes, it looks like the faintest brown iris is starting to appear. his cere was a new violet color today.

Thank you everyone for your help and time. I'll confirm when I get a vet appointment.


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## Cody

That vet could be a resource for getting a friend for Felix, they could know of a breeder or someone that is looking to rehome their budgie. His back is not itchy, many budgies like to be little acrobats and you will see them in some really odd positions, he is just having fun. He has a few months to go before the iris is really apparent and his cere becomes blue. You can start out with a couple of teaspoons of pellets in a separate dish from his seeds and see if he is interested in them, do not remove his regular food and do not be surprised if he does not touch the pellets. A slight amount of tail bobbing is normal as it is in sync with the breathing but if it is pronounced when he is at rest then it should be looked into to. Pronounced tail bobbing can be a sign of respiratory problems or abdominal issues. Did the poop that was stuck to him look as if it was maybe a bit sticky and wet or was it just that one got stuck to a feather on the way out and blocked others from exiting? How do the droppings that fell to the cage bottom look?


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## supercath

Cody said:


> That vet could be a resource for getting a friend for Felix, they could know of a breeder or someone that is looking to rehome their budgie. His back is not itchy, many budgies like to be little acrobats and you will see them in some really odd positions, he is just having fun. He has a few months to go before the iris is really apparent and his cere becomes blue. You can start out with a couple of teaspoons of pellets in a separate dish from his seeds and see if he is interested in them, do not remove his regular food and do not be surprised if he does not touch the pellets. A slight amount of tail bobbing is normal as it is in sync with the breathing but if it is pronounced when he is at rest then it should be looked into to. Pronounced tail bobbing can be a sign of respiratory problems or abdominal issues. Did the poop that was stuck to him look as if it was maybe a bit sticky and wet or was it just that one got stuck to a feather on the way out and blocked others from exiting? How do the droppings that fell to the cage bottom look?


Thank you for the information, alway super helpful.

Some of the poops are normal and some I noticed are a little watery. Here's what the watery ones look like when they dry in the bottom lefthand corner of this photo (he is eating seeds only, I didn't realize till more reading that the pellets are required):









There were like 2-3 separate bowel movements stuck to his butt. 

His tail bobs when he is sleeping and it has always been like that, I just didn't know it was a symptom of anything.

Thank you 🙏


----------



## supercath

supercath said:


> Thank you for the information, alway super helpful.
> 
> Some of the poops are normal and some I noticed are a little watery. Here's what the watery ones look like when they dry in the bottom lefthand corner of this photo (he is eating seeds only, I didn't realize till more reading that the pellets are required):
> View attachment 257553
> 
> 
> There were like 2-3 separate bowel movements stuck to his butt.
> 
> His tail bobs when he is sleeping and it has always been like that, I just didn't know it was a symptom of anything.
> 
> Thank you 🙏


He's flashing me right now so I got some pics:










How are we looking?


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## Cody

He looks ok, the vent does not look soiled, however in the pictures of the droppings some of them do not look normal, have they looked this way from the start? The fecal portion should be coiled around the white urate portion. The droppings can be effected by what the bird eats but since he is eating a seed mix you should expect to see fecal portion of the dropping very dark green looking almost black when dry with a white urate center, if a bird is eating pellets the dark part of the dropping may turn a shade of brown. Is he eating any veggies?


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## supercath

His droppings have changed as he's been here but they have never been coiled.

The first day before he had digested anything here his droppings were larger, dark brown.

Then with the sunflower seeds before we got the millet, watery and green.

Then with the millet mix, thicker and green. They come out as little blobs or lines. Sticky.

I tried to give him some arugula today but he was not interested. No other veggies before this.


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## Cody

We don't really know where he came from and by that I mean whether he came from a big box pet store via a bird mill or whether he came from a private breeder and got loose. It is quite common in birds from big box stores to have some type of intestinal bacteria or parasites and a private breeder is no guarantee of health so it is important to get that vet appointment scheduled. The vet will be doing a physical exam and should be doing a gram stain test on the droppings to determine if there is anything out of order, request this test if it is not done. To do it will require a fresh dropping which will probably be available in the bottom of his carrier by the time you get there, you should also take the paper at the bottom of the cage with you so the vet can see the amount and condition of a days worth of droppings. They may also want to do a CBC which requires a small amount of blood. If they do these tests in house you should have the results the same day.


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## FaeryBee

*Cody has given you excellent information and advice so I have nothing relevant to add at this time other than saying, yet again, that Felix is the cutest little guy!*


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## supercath

Thank you both 💜

The earliest appointment they had was August 16. I explained about the poop amd the breathing and they said if his energy or eating go down, I can bring him in right away, but otherwise he can wait.

Cody thank you for the vet advice. 🤞

Here's a video of him breathing:


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## FaeryBee

*Felix is breathing normally. There is always going to be a slight movement of the tail when a budgie breathes. It is only when the movement is very pronounced that it is a concern.
August 16th isn't that far away. 
As long as Felix is eating, drinking, playing and pooping then you don't need to go in earlier. Having his droppings checked on the 16th should be fine unless his behavior changes or he stops eating.

The Avian Physical Examination
*
*Understanding Avian Laboratory Tests*

*Evaluation of Bird Droppings, An Indicator of Heath*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Felix is breathing normally. There is always going to be a slight movement of the tail when a budgie breathes. It is only when the movement is very pronounced that it is a concern.
> August 16th isn't that far away.
> As long as Felix is eating, drinking, playing and pooping then you don't need to go in earlier. Having his droppings checked on the 16th should be fine unless his behavior changes or he stops eating.
> 
> The Avian Physical Examination*
> 
> *Understanding Avian Laboratory Tests*
> 
> *Evaluation of Bird Droppings, An Indicator of Heath*


Thank you so much! Thank you for the links as well.


----------



## Cody

I agree with FaeryBee. OMG I wish my birds would sit on my finger and fall asleep like that!


----------



## FaeryBee

*The fact that Felix is so trusting and comfortable with you, wants to be with you and falls asleep on your finger are the reasons I said he is "already bonded to you".
Many budgie owners want a budgie just like Felix, and very few are fortunate enough to have a budgie that loves interacting with their human to the degree Felix already is with you. 
Lots of envious members are reading your thread - many budgies never want to be touched or held.*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *The fact that Felix is so trusting and comfortable with you, wants to be with you and falls asleep on your finger are the reasons I said he is "already bonded to you".
> Many budgie owners want a budgie just like Felix, and very few are fortunate enough to have a budgie that loves interacting with their human to the degree Felix already is with you.
> Lots of envious members are reading your thread - many budgies never want to be touched or held.*


oh wow! well I think he is too young to know any better. I'm sure if I kidnapped a toddler they would fall asleep in my arms too.

After a gruelling day of not canoodling each other except during flight time, I am thrilled to report that Felix is crackling in his cage alone for the very first time. Thank you SO MUCH for clueing me into the separation issue. I am deeply grateful.


----------



## FaeryBee

*You are really doing a great job with Felix. He looks quite content napping in his cage in the last picture. 💚💚*


----------



## StarlingWings

It’s a learning process for sure but you’re doing so well with him and it’s clear he thinks so too 💚 Love the updates!


----------



## ChickWas

The picture you posted asking if his back was scratchy, my two do the _exact same _antics. It's them throwing a tantrum and wanting to be out of the cage. Given how close Felix has gotten to you, I am almost positive he's pulling the same stunt. The advice about the separation anxiety you've been given is great, and since you're nipping it in the bud early, fingers crossed he adjusts quickly and with minimal fuss. My two will still occasionally do it now, and they're 7 and 6 months old respectively. Loop de loops on their perch and squeezing against the bars is their way of saying "We really want out please". I used to listen to them and let them out, as I'd feel guilty. But it quickly became a routine and they ended up training me, and the whole situation was worse. They'd spend hours stressing out instead of just relaxing and doing their own thing in the cage. Things are a lot better these days, thankfully! I can let them out and they don't squawk and squeeze against the bars for it. They're also able to be put in the cage and will happily spend their time preening, relaxing or playing with toys. So fingers crossed it goes smoothly for you too.

Establish a routine, and let him learn to be independent in the cage. It'll carry over to adulthood and you'll be able to relax knowing he's happy whether he's alone or with you.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Many Budgies do loops and acrobatics and it has nothing to do with the budgies throwing a tantrum and wanting out of the cage.

The fact is:
If the owner lets the bird out when it is playing in that manner, because one assumes that is what it wants, in effect you are teaching the budgie to expect that reaction to what are simply it having fun on its own. 

Sit back and enjoy watching the behavior which is quite normal.*


----------



## supercath

ChickWas said:


> The picture you posted asking if his back was scratchy, my two do the _exact same _antics. It's them throwing a tantrum and wanting to be out of the cage. Given how close Felix has gotten to you, I am almost positive he's pulling the same stunt. The advice about the separation anxiety you've been given is great, and since you're nipping it in the bud early, fingers crossed he adjusts quickly and with minimal fuss. My two will still occasionally do it now, and they're 7 and 6 months old respectively. Loop de loops on their perch and squeezing against the bars is their way of saying "We really want out please". I used to listen to them and let them out, as I'd feel guilty. But it quickly became a routine and they ended up training me, and the whole situation was worse. They'd spend hours stressing out instead of just relaxing and doing their own thing in the cage. Things are a lot better these days, thankfully! I can let them out and they don't squawk and squeeze against the bars for it. They're also able to be put in the cage and will happily spend their time preening, relaxing or playing with toys. So fingers crossed it goes smoothly for you too.
> 
> Establish a routine, and let him learn to be independent in the cage. It'll carry over to adulthood and you'll be able to relax knowing he's happy whether he's alone or with you.


Thanks so much! We are working hard on a routine. He is just rolling with it, the easiest and most loving pet I have ever had.


----------



## supercath

Updates and questions!

*Pellets*
He is picking them up and dropping them. Eventually he'll figure out to eat them? How does this work?

*Noises*
Anyone know what this noise means?





*Interesting behavior*
I'm trusting this style of perching + sleeping is normal...? #jimhensonmuppet









also this? he looks like batman










*Advice for upcoming trips away from home?*

I am away from home the night of August 27-28. Can I have a pet sitter come in and cover up the cage in the evening and then come back in the morning? I'll put Felix in the closed bedroom in his cage and keep the cats out.
Sep 2-7 I am away on a trip that I planned pre-Felix. Right now my plan is to have a pet sitter stay in the apartment. They will be gone during the days doing dog walking etc. (in NYC everything is a career! Dog walkers and pet sitters make 100k!!) I am apprehensive because I just don't know what this being-away situation is supposed to look like for Felix. Felix is so easy-going that I hope he will just roll with it, but I have no idea!!!!

*Getting Felix a friend*
I've been in touch with Sean Casey Animal Rescue in Brooklyn (Sean Casey Animal Rescue) and they have some available parakeets. I'll go in and visit maybe next weekend and take some pictures and ask you guys about the birbs I meet. I'll wait till after my Labor Day trip to officially adopt anyone.

*New cage*
FaeryBee kindly suggested this cage: Amazon.com : YAHEETECH 54-inch Wrought Iron Standing Large Parrot Parakeet Flight Bird Cage for Small Parrot Cockatiel Sun Parakeet Green Cheek Conure Lovebird Budgie Finch Canary Bird Cage with Stand : Pet Supplies which is "24.2 Long x 16.5 wide x 30’ High With the stand, the Height is 54""
Indeed, 16" is about as wide as my bathroom gets!
However, I've been having more and more success kicking the cats out of the bedroom for flight time, so I've been thinking about getting a larger wheelie cage for Felix and his future pal to go in and out of the bedroom instead. So the maximum width can expand to the bedroom door - 25".
Since I spend all my time at home I was thinking of spending a little more money to get a "pretty" cage, if there is such a thing.
Do you guys have any feedback on this one?
Wayfair.com - Online Home Store for Furniture, Decor, Outdoors & More
cage: 51'' x 21.5'' x 21.5''
weight: 51 lb (i.e. catproof?)

*Flight time*
Felix is choosing to spend his flight time like this:





He likes to burrow into my closed hands.

I haven't seen him fly in a few days since this is what he wants to do instead. I find it reassuring that he still goes back into the cage easily so I don't feel like he views outside the cage as inherently better. I wonder if he even realizes it's a cage rather than a jungle gym.

Thank you everyone for reading and all your time and feedback.


----------



## Cody

There are various ways to get birds to eat pellets, if you have them in a separate dish try mixing some in with his seed and see if that helps him get the idea that they are something to eat. 
Budgies make a variety of sounds but in that video I think he is trying to get your attention to get out.
Some budgies sleep in odd positions like hanging on the side of the cage, it is natural for them to want to be at the highest point in the cage, maybe that's his way of getting there since there is no perch up there for him. 
Do you know the pet sitter that you would have come in? For the 8/27&28 the plan sounds ok but I know I would be concerned all the time I was away that the sitter was sure to keep the cats separated. For the Sept. dates I would not be comfortable leaving him for that length of time, he is so used to your company and interaction all day I don't like the idea of him being alone all day by himself with no one to interact with him, could you get your mom to take him for that time so at least he would have someone to interact with.
Forget about a pretty cage, the cage you looked at is really not good for a budgie, the cage should have more horizontal space rather than vertical, this is a popular cage Prevue Pet Products Flight Bird Cage | bird Cages | PetSmart I have 4 of these and 2 like the one FaeryBee suggested. My birds are out most of the day but these cages allow for a lot of movement inside. Maybe this one if you are looking for something that is something other than square, it's a bit smaller but still an ok size A&E Cage Company Elegant Flight Bird Cage | bird Cages | PetSmart. You may be able to find better prices on these if you search around.
Felix the burrito is adorable. You said he has not flown in a couple of days, is he acting ok otherwise? Just want to make sure he is not lethargic which could indicate a possible problem.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> There are various ways to get birds to eat pellets, if you have them in a separate dish try mixing some in with his seed and see if that helps him get the idea that they are something to eat.
> Budgies make a variety of sounds but in that video I think he is trying to get your attention to get out.
> Some budgies sleep in odd positions like hanging on the side of the cage, it is natural for them to want to be at the highest point in the cage, maybe that's his way of getting there since there is no perch up there for him.
> Do you know the pet sitter that you would have come in? For the 8/27&28 the plan sounds ok but I know I would be concerned all the time I was away that the sitter was sure to keep the cats separated. For the Sept. dates I would not be comfortable leaving him for that length of time, he is so used to your company and interaction all day I don't like the idea of him being alone all day by himself with no one to interact with him, could you get your mom to take him for that time so at least he would have someone to interact with.
> Forget about a pretty cage, the cage you looked at is really not good for a budgie, the cage should have more horizontal space rather than vertical, this is a popular cage Prevue Pet Products Flight Bird Cage | bird Cages | PetSmart I have 4 of these and 2 like the one FaeryBee suggested. My birds are out most of the day but these cages allow for a lot of movement inside. Maybe this one if you are looking for something that is something other than square, it's a bit smaller but still an ok size A&E Cage Company Elegant Flight Bird Cage | bird Cages | PetSmart. You may be able to find better prices on these if you search around.
> Felix the burrito is adorable. You said he has not flown in a couple of days, is he acting ok otherwise? Just want to make sure he is not lethargic which could indicate a possible problem.


Thank you Cody. I was sad to learn that noise means he is frustrated. 

Thank you for the frank talk about the pet sitter. My mom lives in a different state 8 hours' drive away and anyway the Sep 2-7 trip is with her. 

I left a message with the avian vet to see how much their boarding is. 

I use rover.com for pet sitters. The people there are WAY more into animals (and legally accountable to the company) than any personal contacts I've had. You just need a pet sitter who shows up in a Seaspiracy t-shirt with permanent tattoos of their past pets on their arms in order to trust them with your animals. Many of them are vet techs or shelter volunteers/owners. Rover.com has those people. My friends frankly are f-ing useless. Not animal-obsessed enough. I've had awful experiences where friends who were supposed to stay in my apartment left my cats and fancy houseplants alone midway through my trip because they got too allergic or overwhelmed and just didn't know what they were really signing up for.

Anyway my plan is to have the pet-sitter come get to know Felix before my long trip, coming over multiple dates to hang out with Felix one-on-one, in the hopes that Felix will consider them a friend. Then for the dates I am away, they would stay in my apartment and have solo flight time with Felix as well as monitoring his cage when they are just hanging out in the living room. When they go out of the apartment they can lock the cage in the bedroom. 

Ok fine, I will get a cage that looks like an ugly filing cabinet 🤦‍♀️ Seriously though, thank you for the recommendation.

Today after his frustrated squawking he did fly around some. Now he is napping again.

I took some more videos of his breathing - his tail seems pretty bobby to me. But otherwise he is definitely eating, pooping, climbing, playing, and sleeping. 











Felix king of the jungle:









Please let me know your thoughts, and thank you very much for your time.

Cath


----------



## supercath

After hanging out with me outside the cage for an hour and 20 minutes, I wanted to report that Felix the most perfect pet of all time went back into his cage by himself (to eat).

I just never knew birds were so amazing.


----------



## Cody

How about this cage MA3221FL Green - 32''x21''x61'' Elegant Flight Cage
really expensive but you might find it somewhere for less than the MSRP.
His tail in the videos is a bit bobby but I do not see any labored breathing. Is that chicken wire around the plant to keep the cats away or Felix? You will have to watch that Felix does not try to stick his head through it and get stuck, is there a coating of any kind on the wire, if so it could be toxic to Felix. I would try and find something else to use there.
Birds are very amazing creatures and if you get another bird you will find out just how extremely special Felix is because the chances of getting another bird that is as sweet and trusting as Felix would be unusual but hopefully Felix will be a good influence on another bird.


----------



## supercath

Cody said:


> How about this cage MA3221FL Green - 32''x21''x61'' Elegant Flight Cage
> really expensive but you might find it somewhere for less than the MSRP.
> His tail in the videos is a bit bobby but I do not see any labored breathing. Is that chicken wire around the plant to keep the cats away or Felix? You will have to watch that Felix does not try to stick his head through it and get stuck, is there a coating of any kind on the wire, if so it could be toxic to Felix. I would try and find something else to use there.
> Birds are very amazing creatures and if you get another bird you will find out just how extremely special Felix is because the chances of getting another bird that is as sweet and trusting as Felix would be unusual but hopefully Felix will be a good influence on another bird.


Thank you Cody. That cage is a little expensive for me and loses height with that storage space underneath. I'm thinking maybe this one? Wayfair.com - Online Home Store for Furniture, Decor, Outdoors & More Same as the one you showed me but with white paint that apparently adds another $100... maybe I can find a cheaper version.

Did the pet sitter plan sound ok to you? Will Felix make friends with someone who comes to hang out with him in advance?

Thank you for the note about the chicken wire (for my bad cats). I will remove it next time. 

Yeah Felix blows my mind. I've never had such a loving and easy pet experience. Mostly I have had problem animals, pets that are unadoptable for various behavioral reasons (biting, peeing, unpettable). I'm getting a luxury pet ownership experience here with Felix!! Heaven!


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## Cody

That cage in white looks nice I have never seen it in white. Felix might make friends with the sitter but it's going to depend on how much time the two spend together. I too have dealt with problem cats for all the reasons you list, I have had to divide my house up based on cat issues at times. Are you familiar with the budgie Disco, if not look at his YouTube videos, he was an amazing bird with an awesome vocabulary check out this link https://www.youtube.com/user/MsJumpinJude


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## supercath

Cody said:


> That cage in white looks nice I have never seen it in white. Felix might make friends with the sitter but it's going to depend on how much time the two spend together. I too have dealt with problem cats for all the reasons you list, I have had to divide my house up based on cat issues at times. Are you familiar with the budgie Disco, if not look at his YouTube videos, he was an amazing bird with an awesome vocabulary check out this link https://www.youtube.com/user/MsJumpinJude


That is amazing!!!!

I wonder what Felix will pick up! One of my jobs is teaching Latin to kids online. It would be pretty funny if he started reciting grammar lessons.

Do your budgies say anything?

Since I learned that the crackling sound means Felix is happy, I am always so excited when he does it.


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## Cody

Felix is beak grinding, they do that when they are content and often as they are falling asleep. None of my current budgies talk, I had one several years ago that used to say a few words and currently one of my linnies mumbles a little but I cannot make out what he is saying. That would be funny if Felix learns Latin.


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## supercath

what do you guys think of this cage? 









Wayfair.com - Online Home Store for Furniture, Decor, Outdoors & More | Wayfair


Shop Wayfair for A Zillion Things Home across all styles and budgets. 5,000 brands of furniture, lighting, cookware, and more. Free Shipping on most items.




www.wayfair.com





interior size 56.44'' x 35.12'' x 22.87''

it's the biggest one i can afford and the biggest one that fits through my bedroom door (25")

(i think it's ugly as s*** though!!!)


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## Cody

The size if fine but if you get a cage with a top like this one you will not be able to hang anything inside from the top like a swing or various toys and Felix will not be able to sit on the top when he is out of the cage. It may also seem to be a bit dark inside because no light will enter the cage from the top.


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## supercath

Thank you for bringing those elements to my attention.

My apartment is poltergeist bright from windows so the roof won't make so much of a lighting difference. 

I looked up the assembly instructions and there is a rod that goes across the inside for hanging. 










As for hanging out outside the cage, Felix has been sitting on my clothes rack, the big palm plant, and the laundry. I hope that is all ok for him. I'll take a picture next time. 

Once we turn the living room into the flight space (so that he can get 2 hours in the morning while I am at work at my desk and the cats have been lured into the bedroom - that is, once he is actually interested in flying), I'll see where else he can hang out. 

Anyway I measured everything again, took a deep breath and ordered it. 

Thank you for all your time reading and writing and helping me and Felix.


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## ChickWas

Don't worry too much if he doesn't fly like clockwork in the mornings. Some days all they want to do is fly from the cage to your shoulder / clothes rack / laundry / palm plant and that's it. Other days, they're super hyper and will squat down, fan tail feathers, and sorta zip their head left and right, which means "I am ready to tear around this room like a lunatic". It's usually followed by extremely fast Mach 3 zoomies around the room, I love seeing it.

Chick will buzz my head and it's so funny. Plus I get to see all her feathers fanned out whilst she does really tight turns right in front of my face, so it's a cool show to watch. Cage looks phenomenal btw!


----------



## supercath

ChickWas said:


> Don't worry too much if he doesn't fly like clockwork in the mornings. Some days all they want to do is fly from the cage to your shoulder / clothes rack / laundry / palm plant and that's it. Other days, they're super hyper and will squat down, fan tail feathers, and sorta zip their head left and right, which means "I am ready to tear around this room like a lunatic". It's usually followed by extremely fast Mach 3 zoomies around the room, I love seeing it.
> 
> Chick will buzz my head and it's so funny. Plus I get to see all her feathers fanned out whilst she does really tight turns right in front of my face, so it's a cool show to watch. Cage looks phenomenal btw!


Thank you!! I'm looking forward to some Mach 3 zoomies!!


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## Cody

I am glad that there is a way to hang things from the ceiling of the cage, another thing I noticed is that the bars on the front and back of the cage are horizontal and the sides are vertical. The horizontal bars will make it really easy for him to climb around. Now you have to fill it with fun🤩 things.


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## supercath

he's taking a bath in his water dish and looks like a wet mop.










also he yipped at me when i was trying to touch him during flight time and was not as lovey with my fingers. like he was threatened by my fingers. 

after that he went back into his cage himself.

big cage arrives friday.


----------



## Cody

I love wet budgie pictures, you should get one of these for his new cage LIXIT Quick Lock Small & Medium Bird Bath - Chewy.com


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## supercath

Ha! Okay thank you. I didn't know they did this!!


----------



## Cody

They can be very funny, some of my birds will bathe in the bird bath, others will not, I have one that only likes to drunk her head in her drinking water cup.


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## FaeryBee

*Sorry I haven't been on-line for awhile. 
Cody has been giving you great advice!

You may want to think about getting a flat top cage because you can put a playground on top of it for out of cage time.
Although they aren't "pretty" I have Prevue Hendryx F040 and F050 cages for my birds.*
*Prevue Hendryx Flight Cage*
*The only thing is, if you are going to have the cage in the room with the cats, whatever you buy probably should have the bottom of the cage up higher than this which is why I suggested the initial one I did in the previous post.

I have/had cages in white and in black. I find it much easier to see the budgies when they are in cages with black b

Love the pictures and video. 

Dangers of Rope, Snuggle Huts, Fabric and Tasseled Toys*


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## elhans

Felix is adorable! I love his coloration. He looks very happy that you stumbled across him. It's not everyday that you see such a happy and playful budgie, who is so comfortable with your handling and presence. Great job! As for the cat and budgie situation, a large, heavy, cage with wheels is definitely a good choice. Living with a cat, as the moderators have mentioned, is definitely NOT ideal, but you can make it work if you're dedicated to the safety of your budgie, which you seem to be. Have fun with your little guy!


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Sorry I haven't been on-line for awhile.
> Cody has been giving you great advice!
> 
> You may want to think about getting a flat top cage because you can put a playground on top of it for out of cage time.
> Although they aren't "pretty" I have Prevue Hendryx F040 and F050 cages for my birds.*
> *Prevue Hendryx Flight Cage*
> *The only thing is, if you are going to have the cage in the room with the cats, whatever you buy probably should have the bottom of the cage up higher than this which is why I suggested the initial one I did in the previous post.
> 
> I have/had cages in white and in black. I find it much easier to see the budgies when they are in cages with black b
> 
> Love the pictures and video.
> 
> Dangers of Rope, Snuggle Huts, Fabric and Tasseled Toys*


Thank you FaeryBee. Unfortunately I already bought the ugly cage with the useless top. The interior is 56.44'' x 35.12'' x 22.87'' and I think it is about a foot off the ground. It's 65 pounds! I had to pay someone to bring it up four flights of stairs to my apartment.



elhans said:


> Felix is adorable! I love his coloration. He looks very happy that you stumbled across him. It's not everyday that you see such a happy and playful budgie, who is so comfortable with your handling and presence. Great job! As for the cat and budgie situation, a large, heavy, cage with wheels is definitely a good choice. Living with a cat, as the moderators have mentioned, is definitely NOT ideal, but you can make it work if you're dedicated to the safety of your budgie, which you seem to be. Have fun with your little guy!


Thank you!


----------



## supercath

Hi everyone,

Felix had some weird poops this morning. We have a vet appointment on Monday anyway.

For his morning flight time, he didn't want to come out of the cage for the first time ever. I misread his signals and took him out anyway, and he was acting kind of threatened and weird about my fingers. Instead of being floofed up around his neck which I think means he is happy, all his head feathers were pressed down tight. I put him back inside.

As soon as he was back inside, he has been playing constantly and talking to himself, flying around, more active than usual. On the one hand, I'm glad if he is feeling like he doesn't need me! On the other hand, I don't know about this poop. It's very wet and reddish. Budgie diarrhea?




























Thank you everyone for all your time and help


----------



## FaeryBee

*He is having a bit of diarrhea. Did he have anything different to eat that might have caused the change in poop?
Keep an eye on how he behaves today. You may see that the poop is back to normal by tomorrow.
It's good you already have a vet appointment scheduled.*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *He is having a bit of diarrhea. Did he have anything different to eat that might have caused the change in poop?
> Keep an eye on how he behaves today. You may see that the poop is back to normal by tomorrow.
> It's good you already have a vet appointment scheduled.*


I tried to give him some arugula yesterday but I thought he was ignoring it. Maybe he finally figured out his pellets? I'm glad his energy level is so high.


----------



## FaeryBee

*The droppings are more brownish in the pictures you posted, which is normal when a budgie begins eating pellets. 
He probably did eat some of the arugula which made the droppings runnier than normal. 

With regard to him wanting to play by himself -- he is growing up and starting to become more independent.
This is normal as well. *


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *The droppings are more brownish in the pictures you posted, which is normal when a budgie begins eating pellets.
> He probably did eat some of the arugula which made the droppings runnier than normal.
> 
> With regard to him wanting to play by himself -- he is growing up and starting to become more independent.
> This is normal as well. *


Thank you so much! ))


----------



## supercath

we got the new cage set up today with Gerald's help










see if you can spot the budgie:









in the bottom left is a swimming pool made out of a small 2x4x6 glass container. the water is one inch high. felix falls into it and walks around in it. i'll get a picture next time.

recently it seemed like he had better things to do than hang out with me. when i took him out today he just wanted to fly around and climb on the outside of the new cage for about 20 minutes.

but then he came back and slept in my hand for 25 minutes.









he sleeps on his side. he must really be knocked out.

I'll be getting more cage paraphernalia when I can afford it. Sorry it's a bit bare for now.


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## Cody

I had to zoom in to find him in the cage  a mansion for him! He looks so sweet there in your hand, he should have a blast exploring around the cage once you get a few more things in it.


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## FaeryBee

*I cheated and looked for Felix's color so I spotted him in his brand new palace immediately! He looks so tiny in there. LOL
I'm sure he feels like a true King now.
The picture of him sleeping in your hand is just beyond precious.*


----------



## ChickWas

hey supercath, mind if I live with felix in his veritable fortress? I can't believe how happy these progress pics make me. you are wonderful, I wish I knew someone like you nearby, as I'd feel 210% comfortable leaving my birdbabies with them if I ever had to leave for a bit.

I'd also absolutely love looking after felix in return, but you'd probably have to box me in the head to get him back again.


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## supercath

ChickWas said:


> hey supercath, mind if I live with felix in his veritable fortress? I can't believe how happy these progress pics make me. you are wonderful, I wish I knew someone like you nearby, as I'd feel 210% comfortable leaving my birdbabies with them if I ever had to leave for a bit.
> 
> I'd also absolutely love looking after felix in return, but you'd probably have to box me in the head to get him back again.


Thank you ChickWas. The fact that bird people think I am doing a good job two weeks into my first bird gives me so much reassurance and confidence!! What lovely words. I wish we were nearby too. 🦜


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## supercath

Hi everyone, do I need to cover large mirrors in order to let Felix fly in the bigger room? I think Cody had said it was better for blinds to be down on windows so that is how I got the idea.

EDIT: I'm asking because I have six large mirrors so it would be a bit of a time and material investment!

Thank you all and have a great weekend,
Cath


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## Cody

Yes you should cover the mirrors, otherwise he may fly straight into them thinking that what he is seeing is another room he could fly into, if he would hit it hard enough he could be injured. You could tape newspaper or any other paper over it, not very attractive but it does the job. You could also use an old sheet, do you have Dollar Stores where you are where everything is a dollar, if so you could buy several shower curtain liners and use those, either cut them to size or drape them over the mirrors, or a paper tablecloth.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> Yes you should cover the mirrors, otherwise he may fly straight into them thinking that what he is seeing is another room he could fly into, if he would hit it hard enough he could be injured. You could tape newspaper or any other paper over it, not very attractive but it does the job. You could also use an old sheet, do you have Dollar Stores where you are where everything is a dollar, if so you could buy several shower curtain liners and use those, either cut them to size or drape them over the mirrors, or a paper tablecloth.


Thank you Cody!!


----------



## ChickWas

I've seen wild birds slam headfirst into the building windows and die here, as they're all tinted to protect from the desert heat and reflect like mirrors. Indoor birds would 100% do the same, and them dying instantly would be better than the alternatives (broken limbs or beak, ugh). So yeah, covering up is a must. Welcome to birdlife, where everything revolves around your bird. Enjoy your stay 😩


----------



## supercath

ChickWas said:


> I've seen wild birds slam headfirst into the building windows and die here, as they're all tinted to protect from the desert heat and reflect like mirrors. Indoor birds would 100% do the same, and them dying instantly would be better than the alternatives (broken limbs or beak, ugh). So yeah, covering up is a must. Welcome to birdlife, where everything revolves around your bird. Enjoy your stay 😩


I have seen the saddest pictures of window casualties from here in NYC.

Animal safety is not a burden  I do the same stuff for my cats. Hide all the dumb stuff they eat (rubber bands, ear buds, plastic wrappers); no garlic, onions, or chocolate; garbage bins with lids that stay shut and can't be tipped over; notes taped to certain windows asking visitors not to open them. 

I just never thought I would have a (perfect and handsome) bird!


----------



## supercath

Felix making dinosaur noises


----------



## FaeryBee

*That is TOO funny! 😂*


----------



## supercath

saw this today and thought you guys would appreciate:










here was flight time today


----------



## ChickWas

supercath said:


> Felix making dinosaur noises


When he does this, use your index finger to gently rub his cheek and watch him turn into a vegetable. He'll 'open' or relax his feathers and his head will look so fluffy and you can just go to town rubbing his cheeks and under his chin.


----------



## supercath

We just got back from the vet!

Felix is in good shape and they recommended a fecal exam since I found him outdoors.

We had to ride on the NYC subway for over an hour each way. At first I was keeping Felix's cage covered up in a cloth bag. He seemed a little scared and pressed his beak against my finger.










Then I noticed whenever the cloth fell down, he was super curious to see what was outside. I gradually removed more and more of the cloth. He was fascinated! He wasn't scared of the loud trains at all, just loved looking around. What a New York boid. 

We went to the Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine. They had lots of birds in cages including finches and budgies, and Felix was so intrigued.

I was a little disappointed during the visit because the nurse said budgies had trouble with pellets because they were dumb. Then the doctor seemed to be handling Felix really roughly and Felix was screeching. I couldn't concentrate on the doctor's questions because Felix was so unhappy. When they weighed him, they put him in a plastic see through carrier like you might use for a gerbil. After they got his weight, they kept talking to me casually while Felix was frantically trying to get out of the container. I asked if we could take him out first. 

I don't think this is the norm.... right? I don't think I've seen a cat vet make small talk while my cat is in discomfort.

But I don't think I have many other options. 

They had a lone male budgie available for adoption, Chester, and brought him up in one of those gerbil carriers. Chester was super duper chill, not thrown off by seeing me, and relaxed next to Felix's carrier. Felix was super curious. The doctor said we would not need to quarantine since Chester is coming from the vet. I asked if I could return him if they don't get along, and they said yes. We are going to wait for Felix's and Chester's fecal samples to come back (Chester was also found outside) and after my Sep 2-6 trip and then I'll bring Chester home. 

Chester:


----------



## Cody

Chester looks just like Felix only older. Glad that the trip on the train did not scare Felix. Seems to me that it is the nurse that is lacking in smarts, budgies are definitely not stupid, they want to eat what is natural for them to eat and there are no pellet plants in the wild, . After weighing Felix if they were done with the exam I would have expected them to put him back in his carrier. How long before you get the test results? I am a little surprised that they do not do them in house as it does not take much to do a gram stain test if that is what they are doing. Several years ago I had a very ill bird, I bought a microscope and with some help from my vet, I did my own gram stains at home. Sounds crazy but I wanted to look at the droppings every other day to catch the beginning of something and taking droppings to the vet every other day was not practical. Hope things work out for you and Chester, then you will have twins.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Good for Felix for being such a brave little trooper.

The nurse has no idea what she is talking about -- budgies are quite intelligent! (more so than the nurse, in my opinion!)
I think I'd be inclined to ask the veterinarian exactly why he was handling Felix so roughly. That isn't something I'd be appreciative of a professional doing with my birds.
How did the doctor react when you asked about removing Felix from the container he was in for weighing?

Looking forward to your update with regard to Felix and Chester's test results. 💚 💚 *


----------



## supercath

Thank you Cody and FaeryBee!!

It's reassuring that you also thought his vet visit was weird. That leads me to some more specific questions -

The vet used a towel to pick Felix up out of the carrier, instead of his hands. This made Felix scream. I think he could have used his hands?

Was there any part of the check up that is actually painful or uncomfortable for Felix so that he would have to be restrained? For cats you have to hold them down and stick a thermometer in their butts, then palpate their organs. But during that process usually the vet is trying to reassure the cat.

There are some animal hospitals here that say they treat birds. They are not on the vet list you guys showed me. Should I try them next time instead of the fancy Manhattan avian hospital that thinks budgies are dumb?

In answer to your questions, yes I think it's a gram stain test and I think the results are meant to come out within 4 days of the appointment. That's interesting that they could have done it in house. Hmm.

After I asked if we could take Felix out of the container, they let me open it up and he flew onto my head. When I tried to pick him up he flew around the room and came back to my head. I squatted and the doctor took him from my head and put him back in the cage.

In other news, Felix seems to be enjoying his large cage. When we go into the locked room for flight time, sometimes he is not interested in coming out at all. So I'll sit next to the open cage and scroll through my phone, and Felix will come in and out of the cage to play with me as it suits him. He has not been flying around the room. I hope he is getting enough exercise inside the cage.

Yesterday I was groomed:


----------



## FaeryBee

*In my experience, the Avian Veterinarians and/or veterinarian technicians have not been afraid to pick up a budgie with their bare hands. They realize that being bitten is often part of the exam.
The fact that your vet had to use a towel for such a small bird is surprising to me. If he were a Macaw that would be a different story.

Yes, personally, I would look into seeing a different veterinarian. EDIT: Cody has given you excellent information in the post below!
Many exotic pet veterinarians are quite knowledgeable and the more you learn and let the person know YOU know, the better the experience will be for both you and Felix.
Just like any doctor, some Avian Vets are better than others.... 'nuf said.

Take a look at the information in these links as I believe it will answer your questions about the exam. If not, let us know and we'll try to fill in with any specifics.

The Avian Physical Examination*

*Understanding Avian Laboratory Tests*


----------



## Cody

Some vets prefer not to capture with bare hands to prevent being bitten, they have to be held during the exam and I have never seen a bird that likes it, some scream, some wiggle, some do both. It is odd to me that an exotic hospital does not have in house capability to do a gram stain test, maybe they do not have any lab techs working there as that would be the person doing the test and reading the results of the test. As far as the other vets go, if you want to try them I would call first and find out how much of the practice is with birds, and if they do in house testing, a vet does not have to be a member of the Assoc. of Avian Vets to be good with birds but you do want them to have a good deal of experience with them. Next visit, wherever it may be, it is best to leave Felix in his carrier and let the vet or tech remove him when it is time for the exam, it is not safe to have him out no matter how tame he is because as you have already experienced you can end up with him flying around the room and he will be disoriented as he is not familiar with the space.


----------



## supercath

Hi everyone, sorry to have gone awol. I got hit with some very depressing news and it kind of threw me off.

Felix is doing well, he loves his pet sitter who has had birds before. I am on my trip now but will upload some great videos she sent me where he melts in her hands (he hates my fingers now, and I am a very boundary-respecting person!)

I hope you guys are doing well. Thank you for all your help in our early days. When I get back to NY we will be getting Felix's friend, Chester, and I am sure I will have many more questions and pictures then.

Thank you very much for the vet information.

Cath


----------



## Cody

Good to know Felix is doing well in your absence, looking forward to your videos.


----------



## supercath

Here's Felix with his one true love Amena the pet sitter









8/21/21 Felix and Amena 1







youtube.com


----------



## Cody

So sweet, it's so nice that he is getting one on one time while you are away, Felix has made a new friend, Amena will need to come back and visit him once you are home.


----------



## FaeryBee

*I'm so glad things are working out with the pet sitter. Felix looks very happy in the video!*


----------



## srirachaseahawk

This reads like a Disney movie .
Such a great thread to read through as a soon-to-be budgie owner. Felix is absolutely precious. 
I too have a cat household, so please share any tricks that you may have picked up!


----------



## supercath

Thank you for your kind words.

I would say (like Cody has) to try to keep the cat and bird parts of the household separate.

If that is not possible then maybe find a way to supervise the cage when the cats are around and lock the cage in a different room when you have to leave.

Cody and FaeryBee helped me find a cage that the cats can't knock over. We also got the biggest one possible because Felix will not be able to spend as much time outside the cage as he would in an all-bird household. (I feel very lucky that he loves his big cage so much that he doesn't want to come out of it very much.)

I only take Felix out in a closed cat-free room.

I think it also helped that I had a birdfeeder outside my window for a while first, and the cats at first were very murderous and excited by it. Over time (months) they grew bored with it. I really think this made them less reactive to Felix. 

I would never have deliberately gotten a bird with my cats, but I was sort of granted my secret bird wish by finding a bird outside. I think that birds require a bit more commitment than cats, who enjoy solitude. There is the commitment of making sure your bird is entertained and loved, and the commitment to keeping it safe from the cats. 

I hope these are both commitments you are ready for. Accidents are so easy and it doesn't matter if cats seem friendly, they don't view killing as personal or bad. It's just something they do in response to stimulus. I have plenty of scars to prove it! Please be careful.



srirachaseahawk said:


> This reads like a Disney movie .
> Such a great thread to read through as a soon-to-be budgie owner. Felix is absolutely precious.
> I too have a cat household, so please share any tricks that you may have picked up!


----------



## srirachaseahawk

supercath said:


> Thank you for your kind words.
> 
> I would say (like Cody has) to try to keep the cat and bird parts of the household separate.
> 
> If that is not possible then maybe find a way to supervise the cage when the cats are around and lock the cage in a different room when you have to leave.
> 
> Cody and FaeryBee helped me find a cage that the cats can't knock over. We also got the biggest one possible because Felix will not be able to spend as much time outside the cage as he would in an all-bird household. (I feel very lucky that he loves his big cage so much that he doesn't want to come out of it very much.)
> 
> I only take Felix out in a closed cat-free room.
> 
> I think it also helped that I had a birdfeeder outside my window for a while first, and the cats at first were very murderous and excited by it. Over time (months) they grew bored with it. I really think this made them less reactive to Felix.
> 
> I would never have deliberately gotten a bird with my cats, but I was sort of granted my secret bird wish by finding a bird outside. I think that birds require a bit more commitment than cats, who enjoy solitude. There is the commitment of making sure your bird is entertained and loved, and the commitment to keeping it safe from the cats.
> 
> I hope these are both commitments you are ready for. Accidents are so easy and it doesn't matter if cats seem friendly, they don't view killing as personal or bad. It's just something they do in response to stimulus. I have plenty of scars to prove it! Please be careful.


Yep yep  
The team here has likewise helped me choose a heavy and large cage. The bird will never be out when the cats are around, but I can’t really separate the cage from their living space either. 
Anyway, as you learn more, please share more . I just hope that my bird is even half as lovey as yours


----------



## supercath

srirachaseahawk said:


> Yep yep
> The team here has likewise helped me choose a heavy and large cage. The bird will never be out when the cats are around, but I can’t really separate the cage from their living space either.
> Anyway, as you learn more, please share more . I just hope that my bird is even half as lovey as yours


He is not so lovey now! Those were his toddler weeks. Now he is a teenager with better things to do than cuddle with me. I miss our cuddles but a little relieved he is more independent and that I can actually leave the house! I will try to find and follow your thread.


----------



## srirachaseahawk

supercath said:


> He is not so lovey now! Those were his toddler weeks. Now he is a teenager with better things to do than cuddle with me. I miss our cuddles but a little relieved he is more independent and that I can actually leave the house! I will try to find and follow your thread.


I’ve been here for like 15 minutes, so no thread yet 
There will be though in the next month or so!


----------



## Lexmacelade

Felix looks amazingly beautiful and unique. I can see how happy he is. I enjoy reading his journey from this thread =)


----------



## supercath

Lexmacelade said:


> Felix looks amazingly beautiful and unique. I can see how happy he is. I enjoy reading his journey from this thread =)


Thank you so much!!


----------



## supercath

Hi everyone,

If I'm not boring anyone I thought I could give some updates and ask a few more questions.

I put in the adoption application for Chester, the lone budgie at the vet's office. They require a home visit. I haven't heard back from them yet.

Felix seems to be getting bigger.

Today he bit me painfully - twice! I was really not expecting that. 

The first time I had just opened his cage door. He immediately flew to the door opening. I offered him my hand to step on. He reached down and painfully bit my fingertip. I cried out "ow!" (this part I did not have control over) and closed the cage door and left the room for 20 minutes.

I came back and tried again. He immediately flew out to play on my lap. During our flight times, he doesn't fly at all, although he has the option to. He just plays with toys on my lap or crawls around my shoulders. He was nibbling on his toys in my hand and then reached over and bit another fingertip! It was so painful I almost grabbed him, thank goodness something stopped me.

I stood up to put him back in his cage but he didn't want to go back in. I ended up carefully wiping him off using the doorway of the cage (which I've never done before as he always chose when to go back in), and then I left the room and googled "budgies biting" for half an hour. 

I came back in with a new toy, cleaned the cage, and moved him to my side in my office.

Now when I stick my fingers in the cage he is VERY excited to nibble them (he's not usually this excited) but he has been more gentle.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

I'm also thinking of trying out www.squawkboxes.com. Anyone have any experience with this service?

Many thanks,
Cath


----------



## srirachaseahawk

supercath said:


> I'm also thinking of trying out www.squawkboxes.com. Anyone have any experience with this service?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Cath



I just posted on this as well! Glad to know I'm not the only crazy.


----------



## Cody

I am not familiar with it but in looking at the website they do not show an example of what is in the package every month, they only state the items that might be in it. I am always skeptical of these kinds of monthly things no matter what the venue, if you add up what you would pay for it for a year you could probably buy everything you would receive for less and there is probably what I would call useless stuff in it also. Small bird at $26.50 / month is $318.00 a year, you could buy many things that you know your bird would like for that amount rather than taking the chance on unknown stuff, depends on if you are open to seeing what you get for $26.50 a month.


----------



## srirachaseahawk

I'm not going to lie, I ordered one of these:








Tiny Toy Box


If you are international, please see our International Shipping Policy for shipping information and risks before purchasing. This product is available to most international countries. The Tiny Birds Have Spoken. After Blueberry came on the scene at BirdTricks, it became apparent that while our...




birdtricksstore.com





They also offer a subscription service, but I'm curious to see what the initial box is like before signing up for anything.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Felix is getting older and more independent. He's trying out his dominance by biting you. It isn't necessarily a fun time.
I have two budgies that like to sit on me but every once in a while they will take a good chomp of my neck, arm, etc. for no good reason.

Budgies generally bite because they are scared, they are trying to show dominance and/or they are protecting their territory.
When you have a bird, you have to work within the constraints of the bird's preferences rather than your own.
When a budgie is at the "teenage" state where the hormones kick-in they tend to become more aggressive.

Budgies may bite because they are afraid, or to show dominance.

If your budgie does bite you, even though it may really hurt, you should try to ignore it.
Another option is to try to get your budgie to repeatedly "step up" from finger to finger several times in a row right after he bites. 
When he realizes this will happen every time he bites, he may stop.
Some people push back gently on the budgie’s beak when it bites. The budgie will stop biting in order to regain his balance.
*
*Biting - A Learned and Often Avoidable Behavior*


----------



## supercath

Cody said:


> I am not familiar with it but in looking at the website they do not show an example of what is in the package every month, they only state the items that might be in it. I am always skeptical of these kinds of monthly things no matter what the venue, if you add up what you would pay for it for a year you could probably buy everything you would receive for less and there is probably what I would call useless stuff in it also. Small bird at $26.50 / month is $318.00 a year, you could buy many things that you know your bird would like for that amount rather than taking the chance on unknown stuff, depends on if you are open to seeing what you get for $26.50 a month.


Thank you for your insight Cody! Yes, I need to figure out the stuff he likes. I wouldn't say I know that yet.


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Felix is getting older and more independent. He's trying out his dominance by biting you. It isn't necessarily a fun time.
> I have two budgies that like to sit on me but every once in a while they will take a good chomp of my neck, arm, etc. for no good reason.
> 
> Budgies generally bite because they are scared, they are trying to show dominance and/or they are protecting their territory.
> When you have a bird, you have to work within the constraints of the bird's preferences rather than your own.
> When a budgie is at the "teenage" state where the hormones kick-in they tend to become more aggressive.
> 
> Budgies may bite because they are afraid, or to show dominance.
> 
> If your budgie does bite you, even though it may really hurt, you should try to ignore it.
> Another option is to try to get your budgie to repeatedly "step up" from finger to finger several times in a row right after he bites.
> When he realizes this will happen every time he bites, he may stop.
> Some people push back gently on the budgie’s beak when it bites. The budgie will stop biting in order to regain his balance.*
> 
> *Biting - A Learned and Often Avoidable Behavior*


FaeryBee, you are an angel. What a relief to read your interpretation and solution. I think I will try the "step up" or push back because I would like to show him some reaction and not let him think it is ok (since it hurts). I will read the article now.

Lots of love,
Cath


----------



## Blingy

supercath said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> If I'm not boring anyone I thought I could give some updates and ask a few more questions.
> 
> I put in the adoption application for Chester, the lone budgie at the vet's office. They require a home visit. I haven't heard back from them yet.
> 
> Felix seems to be getting bigger.
> 
> Today he bit me painfully - twice! I was really not expecting that.
> 
> The first time I had just opened his cage door. He immediately flew to the door opening. I offered him my hand to step on. He reached down and painfully bit my fingertip. I cried out "ow!" (this part I did not have control over) and closed the cage door and left the room for 20 minutes.
> 
> I came back and tried again. He immediately flew out to play on my lap. During our flight times, he doesn't fly at all, although he has the option to. He just plays with toys on my lap or crawls around my shoulders. He was nibbling on his toys in my hand and then reached over and bit another fingertip! It was so painful I almost grabbed him, thank goodness something stopped me.
> 
> I stood up to put him back in his cage but he didn't want to go back in. I ended up carefully wiping him off using the doorway of the cage (which I've never done before as he always chose when to go back in), and then I left the room and googled "budgies biting" for half an hour.
> 
> I came back in with a new toy, cleaned the cage, and moved him to my side in my office.
> 
> Now when I stick my fingers in the cage he is VERY excited to nibble them (he's not usually this excited) but he has been more gentle.
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm also thinking of trying out www.squawkboxes.com. Anyone have any experience with this service?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Cath


Hello, I love your wee bird. I just wanted to say that although I haven’t used Squawk boxes myself, I do know people who subscribe and love them. I hope you love yours too, if you go ahead with ordering. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## supercath

So I'm picking up Chester on Tuesday.

Felix is extra bitey today. It is all he does to my fingers now. Will this affect his becoming friends with Chester? I am worried he may be very bitey and rude to Chester. (I did read the article on introducing budgies to each other.) Chester is about a year old and was pretty mellow when we met him.

EDIT: I tried to take a video but Felix knew I was trying to record him and just stared at my phone!


----------



## Cody

I suggest you take this introduction slowly, do not just put Chester in the cage with Felix. I would put Chester in Felix's old cage and put them next to one another since the vet said you do not have to observe the quarantine period, and see what the reaction is. Beacuse of where Felix is in his life stage he is becoming more independent and maybe territorial and may not want what he sees as an intruder in his cage until the boys have had a chance to chat and observe one another for a while. Remember that Chester may be a bit freaked out being in a new home and you may find that his reaction to the cats is unfavorable. I hope all works out well and the boys hit it off from the start.


----------



## supercath

Cody said:


> I suggest you take this introduction slowly, do not just put Chester in the cage with Felix. I would put Chester in Felix's old cage and put them next to one another since the vet said you do not have to observe the quarantine period, and see what the reaction is. Beacuse of where Felix is in his life stage he is becoming more independent and maybe territorial and may not want what he sees as an intruder in his cage until the boys have had a chance to chat and observe one another for a while. Remember that Chester may be a bit freaked out being in a new home and you may find that his reaction to the cats is unfavorable. I hope all works out well and the boys hit it off from the start.


Thank you so much!!


----------



## FaeryBee

*Cath,

Cody's advice to you is excellent. Let the two have a few days to get to know one another while in different cages and then try to introduce them in neutral territory.
If/when the time comes for them to go into one cage, please be sure you rearrange everything in that cage to help prevent any birdie (Felix) from becoming aggressive and territorial.*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Cath,
> 
> Cody's advice to you is excellent. Let the two have a few days to get to know one another while in different cages and then try to introduce them in neutral territory.
> If/when the time comes for them to go into one cage, please be sure you rearrange everything in that cage to help prevent any birdie (Felix) from becoming aggressive and territorial.*


Thank you FaeryBee. 💚

Yes I am ordering some new toys to go in the "new cage"!

Felix was sweet and lovey this evening and redacted his no-hands policy. I guess I must have interrupted his important work earlier. 😬


----------



## supercath

Since Felix had enjoyed his subway outing in his travel cage so much (when we were going to the vet in August, a 1.5 hour journey each way with walking and subways), I thought I would try taking him in his travel cage on my half hour neighborhood walk here in suburban Brooklyn (lower buildings than Manhattan but still trains and cars).

He was agog at everything but several times to my horror seemed to be frantically trying to get out of the cage. When that happened I stopped walking and tried to calm him down, which happened within a few seconds. I was carrying him at chest level.

If I had to guess, he was scared of something in one direction and trying to get out the other direction. There were only really vehicles and trees. He hadn't done this during our first trip in August so I felt pretty bad.

Soundwise there was no screaming, not sure if he was too scared to even do that, just quiet chirps all the way through.

When we got home and back in the big cage and we debriefed on what just happened, he came up to my hand and for the first time in a month let me pet him with my fingers. (Currently he hates fingers and only lets me pet him with my nose, rotating his head under it, which is not a very precise endeavor.) (To be clear he sits in my hand and plays with toys, but I'm not allowed to move my utterly vile fingers.) (And to be even more clear I never reach for him or make him do anything. My cats have trained me to respect boundaries. If he has an experience-induced finger hatred it may be from the vet or [hopefully not] from the pet sitter. But then he let her do this, not me:








)

Anyway if I'm still allowed on this board after terrifying my poor bird, I was hoping you guys could weigh in on how bad of a fright he was getting and whether it's worth going on a walk again. Maybe I could keep a cloth or bag ready if he gets spooked like that. I could see how he reacts to the travel cage next time too, which I keep in the big cage as a jungle gym/foraging pit.

I had a similar experience with a young cat who was getting very restless and mean at home so I got him a harness and took him to a city park for some sensory stimulation, where he was instead terrified. But when he got back home he had acquired... a new appreciation for his sedate life. (EDIT: adding that the cat was 100% terrified during our entire 3-minute outing, so we never did it again and had to figure out other enrichment. Felix had about five 10-second scares during our half hour walk.)

Thank you all for your time and help. And I'm so sorry if I have made a very big bird owner mistake. 😬 I just really thought we had done this before very well.


----------



## FaeryBee

*I'm sure he was just unfamiliar with the great big world outside his travel carrier. 
I'd definitely take him for another walk. 
Perhaps just do 10 minutes at a time until he feels safer when he's out.
I'm not sure I'd cover him when he's spooked though. 
I think you are better off calmly talking him through it. 
Covering him when he is already afraid may make him much more frantic.*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *I'm sure he was just unfamiliar with the great big world outside his travel carrier.
> I'd definitely take him for another walk.
> Perhaps just do 10 minutes at a time until he feels safer when he's out.
> I'm not sure I'd cover him when he's spooked though.
> I think you are better off calmly talking him through it.
> Covering him when he is already afraid may make him much more frantic.*


Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

🙏🙏🙏

I'm so relieved I didn't scar him 😅

And he's still letting me pet him, which is so pleasant.

💚💚💚


----------



## FaeryBee

*I'm glad he is allowing you to pet him. That's always a plus.
My budgies only allow the "nose pets" themselves! LOL*


----------



## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *I'm glad he is allowing you to pet him. That's always a plus.
> My budgies only allow the "nose pets" themselves! LOL*


Wow, I didn't even know that was a thing! I feel much better knowing I'm not the only one relegated to nose-petting. I was trying to figure out where I went wrong.

My sensitive cat won't let me touch him either, but is too stunned at the vet to object to being touched. So maybe that is happening with Felix and the pet sitter. Whereas Felix can put up boundaries with me. 🤔 A bird-shaped puzzle.


----------



## supercath

I picked up Chester. We're on the subway home now.

He is grooming and singing on the train 😂 including NYC siren sounds.


----------



## FaeryBee

*Faces are much safer than those horrible 5 appendages that are attached to hands! Noses don't pose a threat at they don't try to pick you up!
Skipper loves to bend his head down and allow me to rub the top of it with my nose (or my chin). Let me put my hand up toward him and "Whoosh! he's gone!"*


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## supercath

well I got Chester home and in the new cage.

Felix was instantly obsessed, trying to break through the bars of his own cage to get to Chester's cage. Chester did all the vocalizing and Felix was totally silent.

I let Felix out in the room and he crawled all over Chester's cage. At some points Felix was just following Chester. I got little brother vibes from Felix since Chester is bigger and louder. They did a lot of kissing but one time Chester smacked Felix away with his foot and another time when they were sharing a millet sprig through the bars, Chester nipped at Felix's foot. Chester also did this head bobby roostery looking thing at Felix. 

Do they have to have a relationship where one of them (likely Chester) is the boss? Or does that just show up when Felix is getting too close?

I looked up what it would be if they were fighting, and there were no wing flapping, hissing, or chasing. Just occasional older brothery smackdowns.

On another note Chester can talk but I can't understand what he's saying yet. He also whistles and does siren noises.


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## FaeryBee

*Chester is showing Felix that he (Chester) intends to be the dominant one in the relationship.
At this point, I wouldn't be concerned. Chester may also be "defending" his territory (cage) from the young interloper.
After a few days time you'll have a better feel for how they are going to do with one another.*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Chester is showing Felix that he (Chester) intends to be the dominant one in the relationship.
> At this point, I wouldn't be concerned. Chester may also be "defending" his territory (cage) from the young interloper.
> After a few days time you'll have a better feel for how they are going to do with one another.*


Thank you. I'll try not to be concerned that my little baby is going to be dominated by this new presence. For the most part, it seems like Felix really wants him there.


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## supercath

Maybe I won't rearrange Felix's cage since he definitely wants Chester around? Just add the new toys? (I know, I should wait and see how things pan out.)

EDIT: I just thought letting Felix still feel like it's his cage (by leaving his toys in there) may help him stand up to Chester a little bit more.


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## Cody

Chester looks like he is thinking "Who is this little whippersnapper?"


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## FaeryBee

supercath said:


> Maybe I won't rearrange Felix's cage since he definitely wants Chester around? Just add the new toys? (I know, I should wait and see how things pan out.)
> 
> EDIT: I just thought letting Felix still feel like it's his cage (by leaving his toys in there) may help him stand up to Chester a little bit more.


*That may actually be a good idea.
We certainly don’t want Felix to end up being bullied when the time comes.*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> That may actually be a good idea.
> We certainly don’t want Felix to end up being bullied when the time comes.


omg bullying no my poor baby!!!! (deep breath)

Hopefully they'll stick to kissing.

The vet totally understood about returning Chester if needed. I just didn't really think we would actually go there. Chester seemed so cool. I hope it's just that Felix was following him and poor Chester only just got to this new space.

Deep breaths.

Thank you for everything. Truly. 🙏

Cath


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## FaeryBee

*Deep breath. That’s very likely the case. Felix is excited at the moment and Chester has just come into a new place he’s unfamiliar with. Give them a few days.*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> Deep breath. That’s very likely the case. Felix is excited at the moment and Chester has just come into a new place he’s unfamiliar with. Give them a few days.


Thank you so so much. 💚🙏💚🙏💚


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## supercath

Here's some videos of their meeting. Watching these again made me feel a little more positive. Chester is making all the sounds and Felix is in silent awe.


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## Cody

Chester is very happy, I can't see his eyes but I bet they were pinning, that can indicate a number of things but in this case he is happy, excited and curious, all good so far.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> Chester is very happy, I can't see his eyes but I bet they were pinning, that can indicate a number of things but in this case he is happy, excited and curious, all good so far.


Wow, I did not expect that! I'm so happy!

Two little birds who have been very alone for a long time and need a flock. 💚


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## Cody

Felix may not understand Chester's body language at first, he was so young when you got him he may not have had much time to socialize with other birds and learn. In that second video Chester wanted to do some beak tapping and that will lead to head bobbing, these things will establish a bond between the two of them, hopefully Felix will take to all of it.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> Felix may not understand Chester's body language at first, he was so young when you got him he may not have had much time to socialize with other birds and learn. In that second video Chester wanted to do some beak tapping and that will lead to head bobbing, these things will establish a bond between the two of them, hopefully Felix will take to all of it.


omg wow!!!!

They did plenty of beak and tongue stuff and Chester went heavy with the head bobbing (I did not record it) but as you said Felix didn't really know what to make of it. Neither did I!

But Felix is very determined to be friends with Chester and won't let anything stand in his way.

This is so reassuring. I can't wait for tomorrow!


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## FaeryBee

*Oh, goodness! 
The videos make things SO much clearer. 💚💚
Happy noises, happy movements and happy budgies.

Felix and Chester look like they are going to become best budgie buddies!

Tomorrow is going to be a great day!*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Oh, goodness!
> The videos make things SO much clearer. 💚💚
> Happy noises, happy movements and happy budgies.
> 
> Felix and Chester look like they are going to become best budgie buddies!
> 
> Tomorrow is going to be a great day!*


I'm so thrilled!!!! 💚💚💚💚💚💚


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## supercath

Hello!

For morning flight time, I took the boys out together. All Felix did was stick to Chester like glue. Wherever Chester flew, Felix flew. It seemed like Chester was getting a little frustrated. But there was no kicking or nipping by Chester this time. That is a relief. I put Chester back in his cage and held millet on both sides of the bars so they could eat millet next to each other like normal people.

I held out the travel cage to Felix and asked if he would like to go for another walk. He got right in!!! He's so smart. Since he was so eager, I thought we could do another 30 minute walk rather than a shorter walk. This time he only got scared twice. I couldn't figure out what by. By the end of it he was sitting on his perch looking straight ahead like he was driving a car.

We passed a neighbor who said hi to Felix. She hadn't met him before. I told her I found him right outside the building and she wondered if he came from "the big house on the corner" where she says a lady lets her birds out during the day. I have never seen any pet birds out on our street before, so I'm not really sure what she meant. Even if that's where he came from, I would never let him go back there. [EDIT: I think my neighbor is confused. There is a big house with a bird feeder where the wild parrots hang out during the day. But never any parakeets here.]

I am leaving Felix and Chester alone in the closed locked bedroom. Chester is afraid of cats  while Felix doesn't care. Interestingly, the cats are more drawn to a scared bird like Chester than a clueless bird like Felix. I think that is how people deceive themselves into letting their birds and cats intermingle, because it looks like the bird and cat aren't reacting to each other. Recipe for tragedy.

Anytime I check on them, they are sitting right next to each other in their separate cages.

For my work break, I put Chester in Felix's cage but Felix just followed him around, nibbling on him when he was nearby and jumping on him if he tried to get away. That was like less than a minute. I took Chester back out and put him in his own cage and gave them both millet.

Chester gets onto my hand if I hold millet, even under these possibly stressful circumstances, so thank goodness there has not been any occasion where I've had to pick him up against his will or anything like that yet. He has also nibbled on my finger a couple of times through the bars.

I think I have to keep them separated until Felix can figure out how not to stalk his new BFF. Unless there is a way to train him to chill out?









This is my "Felix just followed Chester onto my head" face.


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## supercath

Just had a nice 2-minute session where they both sat on my arm and Felix repeatedly tried to nibble on Chester's back and Chester nipped back at him each time. Then when Felix was standing there not knowing what to do, Chester would come up and push beaks with him. Chester did that twice. Then I put Felix back, we shared some millet through the cage bars, and I put Chester back.

I'm really impressed with Chester's patience. I think he's going to be a better trainer than I am.


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## FaeryBee

*Your boys are doing great together for it only being the second day. Chester is just showing Felix what he will and won't tolerate which is fine.
Felix is such a smart little fellow he's going to learn very quickly. Chester has taken on the role of "big brother" or "favorite uncle" in teaching Felix the finer points of being a budgie. Felix may not have been with his parents/siblings long enough for him to have learned some of these things previously.*


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Your boys are doing great together for it only being the second day. Chester is just showing Felix what he will and won't tolerate which is fine.
> Felix is such a smart little fellow he's going to learn very quickly. Chester has taken on the role of "big brother" or "favorite uncle" in teaching Felix the finer points of being a budgie. Felix may not have been with his parents/siblings long enough for him to have learned some of these things previously.*


Thank you for this confirmation and feedback!!! 💚


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## Cody

Looks like you have lucked out again with Chester, sitting on your head and arm already.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> Looks like you have lucked out again with Chester, sitting on your head and arm already.


He was fleeing from Felix!


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## supercath

They're getting the hang of each other... here is a video (2 minutes) - 

The first half is Felix trying to be friends and the second half is Chester trying to be friends.

After this video, Felix just pestered pestered pestered Chester and I had to put him away. I hope he will figure this whole budgie thing out soon.

Then I tried to spend some one-on-one time with Chester but Felix went ballistic in his cage. Jumping around, attacking his bells. It didn't seem worth it to spend time with Chester since he is so chill and it was so upsetting to Felix, so I put Chester back and took Felix out.


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## srirachaseahawk

supercath said:


> They're getting the hang of each other... here is a video (2 minutes) -
> 
> The first half is Felix trying to be friends and the second half is Chester trying to be friends.
> 
> After this video, Felix just pestered pestered pestered Chester and I had to put him away. I hope he will figure this whole budgie thing out soon.
> 
> Then I tried to spend some one-on-one time with Chester but Felix went ballistic in his cage. Jumping around, attacking his bells. It didn't seem worth it to spend time with Chester since he is so chill and it was so upsetting to Felix, so I put Chester back and took Felix out.



I loved it when Chester kicked Felix. 
“…Meh!…”


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## supercath

srirachaseahawk said:


> I loved it when Chester kicked Felix.
> “…Meh!…”


I'm not sure what the kicking means but I hope it's friendly!


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## srirachaseahawk

supercath said:


> I'm not sure what the kicking means but I hope it's friendly!



I could fit everything that I know about budgies onto the head of a pin, so don’t take my word for it 
But. I would think that since there was no angry squawking or major fluttering, Chester was just finding a gentle way to get some space. It’s cute though..


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## FaeryBee

*The kick was priceless. Chester was simply letting Felix know he was a "little too close". 
"Move back a wee bit, youngin!" 😂*


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## supercath

Hi everyone, I had no intention of disappearing like that and I'm so sorry!! I can't believe it's been six months! I became overloaded with work and at the same time, the boys seemed to be getting on well and my questions diminished.

I will try to post a few pictures going forward. 

Thank you to everyone who helped get us started. I am indebted to you.

- Cath

EDIT: short Felix video 




EDIT: more photos


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## Cody

Good to hear from you, I often wondered how the boys were getting along. Felix is all grown up, how do you tell them apart? They are looking great.


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## supercath

Cody said:


> Good to hear from you, I often wondered how the boys were getting along. Felix is all grown up, how do you tell them apart? They are looking great.


 amazingly, they have different facial structure and different posture. I've always wondered how that would work in the wild with thousands of little green birds. Now I know.


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## supercath

I can't believe I didn't post this video. I really thought I had!


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## Cody

So cute


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## StarlingWings

They are ADORABLE, I’m so glad to hear they’re doing well. Thanks for the update!! 💚


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## ChickWas

I'm so glad you're back, and living your best budgie life to boot. Fingers crossed work eases up!


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## srirachaseahawk

I’ve missed these two!!!! 🤪


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## FaeryBee

*Yaay!! It's great to see Felix, Chester (and you) back!
I LOVE the picture of the boys taking a bath in their fountain. That is beyond precious.

I notice the throat spots on the two are different as well as their facial structure. Felix has larger spots than Chester and Chester has a greater number of spots. *


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## supercath

FaeryBee said:


> *Yaay!! It's great to see Felix, Chester (and you) back!
> I LOVE the picture of the boys taking a bath in their fountain. That is beyond precious.
> 
> I notice the throat spots on the two are different as well as their facial structure. Felix has larger spots than Chester and Chester has a greater number of spots. *


omg you're a budgie whisperer!!


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