# Baby budgie meets 1 year old, not going well



## hillylouu (Dec 14, 2021)

Hello everyone

New to this forum, desperate for help if there’s any out there.
I have had my male budgie, Winston, since November last year. He’s trained, social and speaks (an impressive vocabulary).
My husband and I after long deliberations decided to get him a companion. We have done so, carefully chose what we think is a beautiful little boy, whose name is Frankie (Franklin).
He’s only about 9 /10 weeks old, but have hand tamed and flight trained him somewhat.
The introductions however, have not gone well. It’s broken my heart. I don’t know whether to keep trying or give up and accept I have incompatible birds. 
From the get go, after the initial cage next to cage introduction, Frankie has been desperate for Winston’s attention.
I’ve tried supervised time in the cage together, but Winston just tries to get away and stay as far away as he can. It’s a bit like Frankie can’t read the social cues (he’s a bit young) and constantly tries to follow Winston, when out of the cage it’s like an endless loop of chasey.

Today, I encouraged the end of chasey and got them to stay on top of Winston’s big cage together.
Then, Winston started circling behind Frankie and basically stepping on Frankie’s back/tail feathers. I haven’t read about this behaviour before but it was awful. I let it happen a couple of times, thinking maybe it was just Winston putting Frankie in his place, establishing hierarchy but after he kept doing it, and Frankie made squeaks and tried to kiss Winston in return, I couldn’t stand it anymore.
It’s been about 2 weeks of contact between the two, mix of keeping apart and supervised time.
As I said, I’m heart broken.
Should I keep trying? Is it possible things will change? Or by now should I just accept they’re not compatible?


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the posting side of the forums, 

Is there any particular reason you thought Winston needed a friend? As far as I can see from your post, he was perfectly happy being an only budgie and you seemed to have given him plenty of attention since he is trained, speaks, etc. Did you just want a second budgie? Additionally, some owners believe that all budgies require a same species companion to be truly happy. This is true but only if they already do not have a "flock" mentality with anyone else; budgies are flock animals so while this doesn't necessarily mean they need other birds to be happy they definitely need a flock to do so. However, this very well may be their human family if they have been showered with affection and attention and have bonded to their owners. The fact that Winston has been trained and speaks, etc., points to the fact that this may be the case. 

My girl is an only budgie too, and she has been introduced to other birds before with the same result. A lot of tail stepping, feet biting, etc. She did not like having other birds around at all and saw them as intruders to her flock. Therefore it was never a matter of if I wanted another bird or not since my first priority is her and making sure that she is happy. 

Apart from this, it seems you did not quarantine the new baby after bringing him home, correct? So in addition to the above, Winston has not had time to even get used to the idea of there being another bird in the house. And poor Frankie doesn't know why the other bird is rejecting him. Did you get Frankie from a breeder? 

For right now you should separate them, if you haven't already. Quarantine has already been broken so there's no point in doing it again, but I'm not sure if Winston will ever accept Frankie based on what you said. I would keep them within earshot or in the same room but in their separate cages, and you can let out one at a time so that they can observe the other bird in their cage without feeling threatened or harassed. 

If after a few days Winston does not relent then you either have to accept they won't like playing together, etc. and manage their out of cage time and etc. separately, or consider if it's going to be ok for Frankie to continue living in a situation where as much as he wants to, he can't get close to another bird. 

Please keep us updated on the situation! 

Additionally, please be sure to read through the forums' many budgie articles and stickies to ensure you're up to date on everything on the forums! If you have any questions after doing so, please be sure to ask as we'd love to help. Hope to see you around  

We'd love to meet your budgies when you get a chance, as well!


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## hillylouu (Dec 14, 2021)

StarlingWings said:


> Hello and welcome to the posting side of the forums,
> 
> Is there any particular reason you thought Winston needed a friend? As far as I can see from your post, he was perfectly happy being an only budgie and you seemed to have given him plenty of attention since he is trained, speaks, etc. Did you just want a second budgie? Additionally, some owners believe that all budgies require a same species companion to be truly happy. This is true but only if they already do not have a "flock" mentality with anyone else; budgies are flock animals so while this doesn't necessarily mean they need other birds to be happy they definitely need a flock to do so. However, this very well may be their human family if they have been showered with affection and attention and have bonded to their owners. The fact that Winston has been trained and speaks, etc., points to the fact that this may be the case.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply.
I did quarantine Frankie but only for two weeks because the breeder told me he had been quarantined for some time already.

I know you must be speaking with the best of intentions but it's not great to have someone question your decision when it's already been made and can't be undone. I thought about it for six months, honestly. Winston was happy enough, but he would obsess over his mirror, and my husband and I are professionals who can't be around all the time. I did lots of reading and asked questions on forums and spoke to people. 

I'd be grateful for any advice on whether there's anything I can do to encourage the relationship, accepting I can't engineer it.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I was only curious as to the intention behind giving Winston a friend as it clears up some details about the situation, such as whether or not he could be lonely or not, etc. 🙂

Addition there are many members who do not know about quarantine so that’s why I mentioned that. Two weeks should have been enough time for Winston to hear Frankie and get used to the idea of other birds at least so this I don’t think is a factor.

There is not much you can do to encourage the relationship other than what I mentioned above. Winston and Frankie have to choose to be with each other and at the moment it seems Winston has no idea of doing so. As I said above, the only thing you can do right now is have them take out of cage time separately so each one can go fly over and see the other while being separated by the cage bars so you can monitor their interactions better. After a few days of this if it seems Winston has softened a little you can try letting them both out in neutral territory (such as moving both cages to a less used room that may be unfamiliar to both of them) to limit Winston feeling like it’s his territory.

However if Winston continues to harass Frankie despite all of this you can’t keep trying to keep them together since it’ll just cause them both stress. In this situation as I mentioned you’ll have to consider if you’re able to keep Frankie on his own or with a different budgie friend separate from Winston.

Since many other members read these posts, the below is a notice to ALL members:

This forum does not condone providing budgies, whether single or in a group, with a mirror. It can cause aggressive and obsessive behavior over time as well as frustration if the bird begins to see the “other bird” as a rival, a suitor, or a friend.









Essentials to a Great Cage


This post was rewritten by FaeryBee 12/16/2019 Please note that if rope perches are used, you need to ensure your budgies are not chewing them. Remove any cotton rope perch immediately if you notice any chewing or if the rope becomes frayed from the birds' toenails. Toys containing cotton...




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## hillylouu (Dec 14, 2021)

StarlingWings said:


> I was only curious as to the intention behind giving Winston a friend as it clears up some details about the situation, such as whether or not he could be lonely or not, etc. 🙂
> 
> Addition there are many members who do not know about quarantine so that’s why I mentioned that. Two weeks should have been enough time for Winston to hear Frankie and get used to the idea of other birds at least so this I don’t think is a factor.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate this - and sorry if I sounded unncessarily defensive! I can imagine you've been through this with your girl too so I am sure you understand!


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

hillylouu said:


> I really appreciate this - and sorry if I sounded unncessarily defensive! I can imagine you've been through this with your girl too so I am sure you understand!


Sorry there’s not much else I can say about the situation— I do understand how sad it is when you just want them to be able to share companionship with a bird too, but they simply won’t have it. My girl is a big drama queen so it wasn’t totally a surprise necessarily but it was a bit sad as it would have been nice. In my situation our family is basically her flock and while I’m her “BFF” (best flock friend) she views everyone in the house as “her” people. The other bird had such a sweet temperament too, very calm, etc. She kept biting her feet and trying to squish her so it wasn’t going to work.. 

Please keep us updated on the situation!


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## ChickWas (May 6, 2021)

So my two girls absolutely despise each other. I had Chick for 5 months before I got Wasabi. Same situation as your Frankie and Winston. Wasabi wanted to be close and friendly with the older Chick, whereas Chick wanted nothing to do with this little annoying kid. Their relationship (one year on) has been tumultuous at best, I had to start separating them 4 months ago when they entered bird puberty as the fighting became too much.

That being said though, I'm noticing they're calming down with each other these days? They will still bicker, but they tolerate each other a lot more. They're currently sat on the same perch, getting cozy as it's almost bed time. No bickering, no aggression. Just the odd squeak when one thinks the other shuffled a bit too close. I think they've started to tolerate each other because I'm spending more time away from them. Work takes up a lot of our day, and I get home at 5pm, which only gives me two hours with the little ones until they get sent to bed. So I think absence has made them realise they've only got each other, which has calmed things down somewhat.

Now, with Frankie and Winston, will they be best buds? Who knows. Maybe time will calm Winston down. But if you have them each in their own cages, I am 100% sure they will provide company and companionship whilst you and your significant other aren't around, even if said company and companionship is separated by bars. Perhaps over the course of a few months, they will slowly start to tolerate each other and then maybe become friends. Or they may never be friendly towards one another. My mentality on the situation is I don't think you made the wrong choice. You did everything correctly. You got another boy, you quarantined, you gradually introduced. I think (which is what happened with me) that Winston was just too used to being the single budgie, same as my Chick was. All the months just him and you, and now some new kid joins the group and starts robbing Winston of his deserved attention? Heck no, not on his watch.

But fingers crossed they'll mellow out over time. Ease up on the forced interactions. Still allow supervised play time but be prepared to move them away from each other as Frankie is in that needy, obsessive baby stage which can be frustrating for an older bird. All the best, and again, I personally would have done the same in your shoes. Even if birds consider us _their _flock, we can't be with them at all times. As a conscientious, I can't in good faith leave a bird I care about by themselves for extended periods of time, day in, day out. I'd need to know they have someone to bicker with or sing with or interact with whilst I was gone. It's better to have someone around that is mildly irritating than it is to be sat all by yourself.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

The above is correct. If otherwise he is alone for long periods of time, despite not getting along with Frankie at least the presence of another bird will be better than nothing. The only thing to watch for in this case is since in this scenario their cages are in the same room, Frankie may become very agitated trying to reach Winston, which is not good for Frankie even if Winston is indifferent. While after some of this the situation may calm down if Frankie gives up, it’s important to make sure both birds are at least neutral with the final arrangement.


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## hillylouu (Dec 14, 2021)

So grateful for your feedback and advice, thank you.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Hi, Welcome to Talk Budgies!

The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
*Locating an Avian Veterinarian*

*I'm sorry to hear about the problems you are having with compatibility between Winston and Frankie.
You have been provided with excellent advice. 
If you have pictures of Winston and Frankie that you would like to share, we'd love to see some!

Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
Additionally, please be sure to read the thread "Posting on the Forums" which is linked below.
Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
(Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)
These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*SITE GUIDELINES*
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*Let's Talk Budgies!*
*FAQ*
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*Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
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*Quarantine IS Necessary!*
*A Heartfelt Plea to All Members*
*Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*
*Dangers to Pet Birds*
*Resource Directory**

FaeryBee
Talk Budgies Administrator*


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