# I found this little guy, now what?



## appleflowers

We are bird lovers family and on a botanic garden walk this week I spotted more blue and white than what I am used to seeing. I knew right away it was a parakeet. I tried approaching it and chasing after it, but had to abort mission due to kids school pickups. Nonetheless, this bird was in an area that is frequently visited by a hawk pair and I just had to go back and see if I can be more lucky with a bit more time on my hands. The budgie was on the grass close to where I first spotted it. My daughter and I chased after it among the small trees that it flew to and from. We did this for about an hour and finally it came to be okay to climb onto my finger when I offered it a bunch of the grassy plant we first spotted it nibbling on. It took three tries and I was able to catch it with a net I had while holding it on my finger.
We got it home and got it into a temporary terrarium we had at home while I went and got a good size cage and food ( fortified mix). 
I am in the process of researching and reading, and looking for lost bird posts ( none so far).
The thing that is strange to me is that I was able to get this bird to tweet to me and get it onto my hand and catch it in the big wild open, whereas right now it is impossible to catch it in the big cage it is in. We do not want to stress it and he ( we think it’s male) will not come. I understand he needs time to get used to the new setup, to his new home and to us.
Until we tame it there is no way to get it to the vet.
He seems to love when we play budgie sounds from youtube. Is that okay? It seems like a bird radio kind of thing 
I want to get the best food possible, could you please recommend what pellet food is best to try first?
I just got the fortified food from petco but it does have artificial colors, which I would like to avoid in future choices.
My two daughters love birds and always wanted a pet bird. Having had a cat who was mistreated while in care of caregiver when I was on vacation, I was very reluctant to allow a pet, for fear of what to do with it while we go away. 
Now here we are, with this little blue gift, and while we are starting to care for it I would appreciate any info on what people generally do while going away for a period of 8 days or so.
Thank you so much for help and tips!

this is Bisbee


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## srirachaseahawk

Yep, that’s a boy!
Looks to be at least 8-9 months old, so he was probably “someone’s” pet


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## appleflowers

He ( yay, glad to know what gender he is) loved the plant he is pictured with. But I took it away as there is high risk of it being treated with lawn treatments, likely not parrot friendly.
He is scared of spray millet, and mostly anything else. Loves piano music !


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## srirachaseahawk

He’s going to need time to settle in. I recommend getting an appropriately sized cage with some natural wood perches and toys (with a high quality food of course) and giving him some time.
Don’t isolate him in a room by himself, put the cage somewhere in a common area where he can get a sense of his new home and his new terrestrial flock mates 

and playing music for him is great! Birds don’t care for silence..

A vet visit really is important, if you can find a good way to get him in a travel cage. Some of the staff here will have some suggestions for you, I’ve no doubt.

please check out the “stickies” in each ofthe sub forums, they are a wealth of info!


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## Nausicaa

Totally a boy, and a handsome one at that, but judging by the clear white ring in his eyes, I'd say he's over a year old, it usually takes a while to develop permanently. 

Before you feed him any sort of plant, make sure you know for sure what species it is and check it's not toxic to budgies. Dill is a huge success with my girls, as are lettuce, spinach and cillantro. I use Harrison's pellets; they girls gulp them down and they have no artificial colouring. Zupreem is also a good brand with no added colours, though I have not tried it. 

Budgies adore noise, be it "human" music, bird sounds or even just radio chatter/audiobook reading, especially the boys. Right now Dawn is singing to The Best of Baroque, and Iris will take over when I put symphonic metal in a bit. There's a chance that budgie sounds will make Bisbee go a little crazy with longing for a flock (emphasis on _might_), in which case you can switch to other bird sounds or music. He's probably going to sing even in silence when he gets more comfortable, boys are very verbal (which I really can't imagine because my girls mumble and chirp all the time when they're not preening, they even chirp in their sleep XD). 

Just let him take his new home in, no reason to add stress for now, as long as he appears healthy. If his breathing is fine, no tail bobbing etc you can let him relax for a week before taking him to the vet's. 

Best wishes to you all!


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## Cody

He is a beautiful adult male an as others have said was probably someone's pet that got out. Don't try to force him onto a pellet diet at first, because most birds do not recognize pellets as a food source it can take time getting them to accept them and unless he was eating them in his previous home he may not eat them. The Zupreem canary size pellets are accepted by many birds, and the size of them is small like a millet seed and easy to eat, don't be concerned that it says canary, the ingredients are the same as the larger size, it's just a difference in size. Most seed mixes now have some pellets in them and the bird may or may not eat them, I use Living World Premium Mix which I cannot find in any store so I have to order it onlinehttps://www.amazon.com/Living-World...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138857533041&psc=1 I also have Higgins Vita Seed, this you can get at a Petco but not at Petsmart https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/higgins-vita-seed-parakeet-food. Offer him some veggies like broccoli, romaine lettuce or kale, if he was eating them in his prior home he should take to them again. As long as he is not showing any signs of illness you do no have to rush into a vet visit, many vets are still doing curbside only service because of the pandemic and it may take weeks to get an appointment, where are you located? If you are going away for 8 days you will need to find someone to care for the bird while you are away, some vets have boarding services but may require various disease testing before accepting a bird for boarding.


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## wmcburke

Welcome to you both, and thank you for rescuing him. You've received excellent advice. Enjoy your blue gift. I know you will.


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## appleflowers

Thank you all so much for valuable information! I will order the pellet food, he may have had it in his previous home. We check about every food we would like to offer to him, he may have nibbled a bit on the hard boiled egg, but seemingly passed on the apple and lettuce for now.
It will take me a while to go through all the stickies, but I am so happy I found this trove of helpful information.
We put the egg in a separate small dish on the bottom of the cage, it looks like he may have taken bites but I am not sure. The lettuce I put into his seed mix container but he seemed scared of it. Knowing that he eats comfortably from his seed mix dish, where should i put his other, more human food? Lettuce, spinach, parsley, egg, maybe fruit. Cage floor on the plate, with his seed mix, or separate container? Sorry if this is obvious and I am just missing it.
He had the spray millet today that my daughter offered to him. He really seems to like her and call her or engage very actively with her. Interestingly she is the one that is a bird lover and always wanted a birdie at home. When she was a toddler she called the color red “cardinal”, and you all know why 
We are north of Chicago Il. Hoping to figure out how to care for him when we can’t, in December. But we will take it day by day for now.
Can budgies handle car travel well?


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## Cody

Take a look at this so you will know what is safe and what is not to give in the way of veggies and fruits. Safe Foods for Budgies veggies are better because fruit has too much sugar in it. Also want to make you aware that birds have a very sensitive respiratory system and you should not be using aerosol sprays, room fresheners, perfumes, anything that creates smoke or fumes etc. around them, also fumes from non stick cookware (Teflon) can kill a bird quickly, we cannot detect the fumes but very dangerous for birds. You can clip leafy greens to the cage or you can chop them up and offer in a separate dish. It would be best to keep them off the bottom of the cage to avoid them getting soiled from droppings and seed hulls. Budgies react differently to car travel just based on their personality, I have had some that are very calm and some not. It is best to have a small travel cage or carrier while in the car, My birds are not in the car except to go to the vet and I use a small carrier you do not want the bird to be able to have a lot of space while traveling in a car.


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## FaeryBee

*Hi, Welcome to Talk Budgies!

Thank you for rescuing this handsome boy!
You've been given excellent advice thus far.

The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
*Locating an Avian Veterinarian*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
(Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)
These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.*
*SITE GUIDELINES*
*Posting on the Forums*
*Let's Talk Budgies!*
*FAQ*
*Articles*
*Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
*Avian First Aid*
*Quarantine IS Necessary!*
*A heartfelt plea to forum members new and old*
*Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*
*Dangers to Pet Birds*
*Resource Directory*


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## Nausicaa

appleflowers said:


> I will order the pellet food, he may have had it in his previous home.


I was just about to say that. He seems to be well-taken care of, so he may have had pellets in the past. And you can always grind them and put the dust along with the seeds. If he's scared of a whole leaf of lettuce, just chop it into thin slices or pieces, it usually works. You can also offer dill, which is naturally thin and budgies love it. Dill and other grassy greens also encourage bathing if you throw them in the bathtub. 

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but he's probably more friendly towards your daughter because a child is smaller than an adult, and the poor things are so small. The fact that her voice is probably softer than an adult's must help as well. 

As for car rides, it really depends on the bird. I drove out of Athens to get Dawn from her previous home, and she had zero issues for the entire one and a half hour trip, occasionally chirping to the music and passing motorbikes. Observe little blue when you take him to the vet, so you can see if he can come with.


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## FaeryBee

*Budgies can do long distance travel. 
When I picked mine up from the breeder (individually by the way!) It was an 8 hour trip one way.
Additionally, when I moved from VA to FL the trip was 13+ hours.
*
*Long Distance Traveling with your Budgie*


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## appleflowers

Cody said:


> Take a look at this so you will know what is safe and what is not to give in the way of veggies and fruits. Safe Foods for Budgies veggies are better because fruit has too much sugar in it. Also want to make you aware that birds have a very sensitive respiratory system and you should not be using aerosol sprays, room fresheners, perfumes, anything that creates smoke or fumes etc. around them, also fumes from non stick cookware (Teflon) can kill a bird quickly, we cannot detect the fumes but very dangerous for birds. You can clip leafy greens to the cage or you can chop them up and offer in a separate dish. It would be best to keep them off the bottom of the cage to avoid them getting soiled from droppings and seed hulls. Budgies react differently to car travel just based on their personality, I have had some that are very calm and some not. It is best to have a small travel cage or carrier while in the car, My birds are not in the car except to go to the vet and I use a small carrier you do not want the bird to be able to have a lot of space while traveling in a car.


Thank you for mentioning that. We are fragrance free because of an asthmatic child, so in a way I am very familiar with sensitive respiratory systems. Good reminder about Telfon! We only have a couple of green pans that seem to be bird safe (no teflon), otherwise stainless. 
I got all food off the ground level. We have separate container for fresh green, none of which are appealing to Mr Bisbee right now. 
I was honestly considering (car) traveling with the bird, but just common sense dictates agains it.


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## appleflowers

Nausicaa said:


> I was just about to say that. He seems to be well-taken care of, so he may have had pellets in the past. And you can always grind them and put the dust along with the seeds. If he's scared of a whole leaf of lettuce, just chop it into thin slices or pieces, it usually works. You can also offer dill, which is naturally thin and budgies love it. Dill and other grassy greens also encourage bathing if you throw them in the bathtub.
> 
> Not to rain on anyone's parade, but he's probably more friendly towards your daughter because a child is smaller than an adult, and the poor things are so small. The fact that her voice is probably softer than an adult's must help as well.
> 
> As for car rides, it really depends on the bird. I drove out of Athens to get Dawn from her previous home, and she had zero issues for the entire one and a half hour trip, occasionally chirping to the music and passing motorbikes. Observe little blue when you take him to the vet, so you can see if he can come with.


We are trying dill, parsley, romaine and spinach. He is getting more comfortable so maybe at some point he will try it.
Thank you for all your advice!


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## appleflowers

He is getting more comfortable in his cage. He disliked the plastic toys we placed in the cage, so we took them out. We spent some time making him perches and ring swings out of willow branches and he likes them a lot. 

He is now in a 25 x 32 x 20 cage. Would a 30 x 18 x 18 cage be better? 
There is a chance we would like to get him a male companion but that would hot happen until after our December travel. 

I pinpointed on the map possible places he escaped from, guessing he did not come from far away and would likely not cross a super busy highway. We drove around to check if there are any signs posted but there were none. I guess this now makes him officially out pet.

I still have lots of research to do. How does one entertain a bird when the house is people free for a longer period? He is not interested in bathing in water container on the ground. Do we spray him with water? We did and he liked it but not sure if it is okay. 
I need to clean the cage and in order to do this he needs to be out of there. Right now he will not be touched and it does not seem to be feasible any time soon. What in the world do I do?


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## appleflowers

FaeryBee said:


> *Budgies can do long distance travel.
> When I picked mine up from the breeder (individually by the way!) It was an 8 hour trip one way.
> Additionally, when I moved from VA to FL the trip was 13+ hours.*
> 
> *Long Distance Traveling with your Budgie*


Well then, maybe the idea of taking him with us is not so bad after all. We will have to see how he is doing by December


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## Cody

As far as a cage goes, the bigger the better, however it is better to have a cage where the horizontal measurement is the larger, not the vertical, so keep that in mind. If you decide to get him a buddy be sure to observe quarantine rules, you will need to house the new bird in a separate cage in a separate room for a minimum of 30 days. You can leave a radio or TV on for your current bird while you are not in the house and that will help him to feel not so alone, have you named him yet? If he is not interested in bathing you can mist him it is best to spray from above and let the mist fall on him, do not spray directly at him. You will need to move slowly when you clean the cage, what does the cage look like, does it have a slide out tray at the bottom?


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## appleflowers

I was just reading the forum posts and I think I have a long way to go before I even consider a budgie friend. 
The cage is 24.8 x 20.8 with the height of 32. It has a funny shape that I do not love but it was he biggest cage available at Petco on the day I got there. 
i could put him in a 30 x 18, with height of 18 cage that I could get.
Or I am willing to go with a recommendation for a one or two budgie sized cage.
This little guy, his name is Bisbee ( turquoise mine in az, since his color s so turquoise) was soaring from tree to tree when I spotted him. They were small catalpa and crabapples, so not big trees, but I can’t help but feel a bit sad about what he has now vs what he had in the wild open. Except for the fact that he would not have survived there.
I have a feeling that he is scared of me, but I can live with it, knowing that I saved him from becoming a hawk snack. Hopefully with time he will trust me.
The cage has a metal grate at the bottom ( this does not slide out) and then a solid bottom that does slide out. I just placed paper towels on the lowest level. I think I should have removed the metal grate and just line the lowest level with paper, then put some seeds there for ground foraging.

The idea I have for getting the bird out of the cage is having him climb onto my finger and taking him out of cage. I never thought of just opening the door and letting him out.
I remember a friend having a budgie who got stuck in a tight place and broke her wing, long time ago when I was in high school.

Also, we do have a waffle maker. I do not know if it s Teflon, but it is non stick. Does it mean I cannot use it?


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## Cody

Take a look at this cage, it is fine for 2 birds and the cage can be lifted off the stand if you want to place it on something else https://www.amazon.com/Parakeet-Coc...prefix=mccage+flight+cage,aps,169&sr=8-1&th=1, you will need to order this online I have never seen it in any store, you can do a search for flight cage and see what works for you, make sure you look at the bar spacing, it should be no more than 1/2 inch, It can take months to get a bird comfortable with you and in his case you don't know what his prior life experience has been that may have influenced his behavior. If you let him out right now be prepared for him to possibly fly erratically bumping into things as he is not familiar with the space, all windows and mirrors should be covered, no open toilets, and keep him out of the kitchen. Take a look at the attached, on page 8 is info about Teflon https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Household-Hazards-2013.pdf


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## vrabec

What have I started with the waffle iron hahah  Just look up your model and read the descriptions.

Appleflowers, we're kind of in the same boat. Have you tried putting up pictures/signs of the bird in the neighborhoods, or talk to any petstores to let them know you've found the bird? I feel bad, too, especially when mine went through the phase "i want out now" yesterday, and then I wonder whether bonding is really just another form of birdie stockholm syndrome.

Take a look at some of the training/taming stickies in this forum, and watch some videos on youtube - it's a bit overwhelming, there will be conflicting info, but from what I gather, there's no need to rush it. They suggest letting him out of the cage in a small space first, and just be patient and give him time (I read some do it in tents or under a table with a cover all the way around).


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## FaeryBee

*Budgies need a minimum of two weeks to settle into their new home and you should not be trying to touch or tame them at this time. They are often submissive initially because they are terrified.
You can cover the top and three sides of the cage to help them feel more secure. Play music or the TV for them when you are not around during the day.

Taming and Bonding is all about helping your budgie learn to trust you and it takes a great deal of time and patience on your part.
You should never grab your budgie or force him to be touched.
To bond with your budgie, you need to build his trust in you.
He will have to learn over time that you will not hurt him, grab him and try to force him to allow you to hold him .

To build your budgie's’ trust, sit by his cage and read, talk or sing quietly to him for a period of at least 10-15 minutes, 3 or 4 times day.
After about a week, rest your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to him so him will learn that your hand is safe and will not hurt him. 

After a week or so of resting your hand on the outside of the cage, rest your hand inside the cage when you talk.

Don’t make sudden moves, don’t try to touch him.
Let the budgie get used to the idea that the hand is now in his safe place and not harming him.

Aftera couple of weeks, begin moving your hand slowly toward your bird. If he becomes agitated, stop moving your hand and just hold very still until he calms down. 
When he are comfortable with your hand near him, you can offer them a bit of millet or a few seeds.
I like to put the seeds or a millet ball in the palm of my hand. Then allow the budgie to decide when he is brave enough to step over to your palm to get them.

Always work at your bird's pace.
Move slowly and talk reassuringly and calmly to him whenever you interact with him .

Some budgies enjoy bathing and others don't.
There are various things you can try. You may also find he ignores the bath for a long time and then suddenly one will decide to try it and then he'll like it! 

I'd suggest you either put a shallow bowl with water in or on top the cage or get a Lix-it Bath to attach to the cage and provide him the option of bathing every few days.

You can also try placing a few fresh basil leaves or some lettuce leaves in the water. That may interest him in the bath.

Some budgies love to rub against or roll on wet leaves.
You can hang wet romaine lettuce or kale leaves in the cage or place them in a shallow dish in or on the cage to see if your budgie likes them.

Some budgies enjoy being very lightly misted with room temperature water. 
Do NOT squirt the water directly on the budgie. 
Aim it up into the air and let the water mist settle down over the budgie gently. 
You should be able to easily tell if he likes it or doesn't want any part of it.
Some budgies do enjoy playing under a light trickle of water in the sink.
Other budgies simply don't enjoy bathing which is fine as all budgies are cleaning and oiling their feathers when they preen.

If your budgie is shaking his head, tail and feet after he’s been in the water, that’s quite normal. It’s like a dog shaking after it gets wet.*


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## appleflowers

Thank you all again for help and information.

Cody, I really like that cage! I think I will let Bisbee settle a bit more in the one we have now and then get the really big one in a month or so. 

I will not be letting him out of the cage anytime soon. It does not look like he is ready and neither are we. At first I was thinking that because it was “doable” to get him to climb onto my hand after gently chasing him for about an hour “in the wild”, that would be easily repeated in home situation. But either I scared him by actually catching him, or the new cage/ new home situation made him way more shy.

I was able to clean the cage by just changing the liner paper. I can’t clean the bottom grate, or remove it, which is what I’d like to do, until there is a way to get birdie out of the cage.

I found on local social media, while still checking if someone is looking for a budgie, that someone else noticed him in the botanic garden the day before we spotted and rescued him.
Sadly I noticed that the local site only had “found” bird notices. Not a single person is looking for an escapee. My daughters are very happy no one is looking for him. I just want to be sure.

vrabec, we make more pancakes than waffles. I think I can live with this. Looks like just using the device normally should be fine though, it’s looks like the overheating causes the trouble.
I did not feel like posting signs. I think I really want to take care of this birdie. I was/ am looking to make sure no one is looking for him. 

I talked to the pet store that is just across the highway from where we got him. They said they did not lose any budgies. Could it happen during delivery process though? Who knows…

We play music to the budgie and we play YouTube budgie sounds. Today Bisbee had an excellent day. He was chirping away in a way that surprised all of us. He tweets sharply when he seems to want someone to come over, and chirps away sweetly when no one is looking. He notices right away when we try to peek, and quiets down. I guess he is maybe slowly finding a way to feel at home.

Faerybee, we do light cover ( light fabric) on top of cage for the day still, just so it feels a bit sheltered. We add a dark blanket for the night. He had a really nice day today, was very chirpy which cannot but make you feel he must be somewhat happy!
He is still not comfortable with my hand in cage, which is okay. He used to fly away when I just tried to open the door. I feel that already he knows I will not reach for him. Instead of panicking and flying away he just watches, or turns around ready to fly but does not. Tiny steps toward the mutual understanding that he is safe  
He accepts my daughter and her gentler ways more.

As for the bath we removed the water container and did not spray him today. spraying right at him did not feel ok. Even though he seemed to enjoy it. Might try with warmer water more from the top. We have a mister ( my orchid mister) that he looked like he liked.

I read a lot about budgie bobbing his/ her tail. This budgie seems to move his tail most of the time, is it normal? It is like the tail is gently shaking all of the time. Just slightly.

Again, I feel so grateful for all the help and information I was able to access. I still have so much more to go trough. I am so glad the birdie gave us such positive feedback today ( happy chirped) , it felt like he might be okay where he is.


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## Cody

Sounds like he is settling in well. A slight movement, bobbing up and down, of the tail is normal and coincides with the breathing, however, if it becomes too much, that can indicate a respiratory issue or abdominal issue. If you are concerned about the movement and can catch a video of it we can let you know if it looks normal or not.


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## appleflowers

Bisbee seemed to yawn quite a bit this afternoon, which was strange and I was wondering if he was okay. He calmed down and did not yawn anymore but I did not even know birds could yawn, seeing his extending beak was concerning at first.
He joins happily chirping when anyone plays piano or any other instrument. It really was like he was singing along to the music.
In the evening, he jumps onto a high willow ring and we get that this is his sleep time. Today he even jumped on to of the highest ring. 
His cage covers are not super dark, I am sure they let some light through. Would that contribute to him not getting a good night sleep?


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## Cody

He may have been yawning or he may have been adjusting his crop. The crop is an enlarged section in the esophagus where seed or whatever they are eating is stored and slowly released for digestion. When they are yawning the mouth will open and close just like us, when they are adjusting you will see the mouth open and usually a little stretch or twist of the neck. Budgies will nap during the day when it is light around them, so the light cover is fine, I keep a nightlight on for my birds in case they have a night fright, it makes it easier for them to reorient themselves.


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## appleflowers

I think he probably was adjusting his crop. It looks like something between yawning and gagging, and his beak extends almost horizontally. Is it fine if he does it a lot at times or should I be concerned?

He spends most time on perches, branches and willow ring swings in the middle of cage. He goes to sleep on the very top, just under the roof of the cage. He never goes to the bottom of the cage. It is a grate and there is a shallow plastic container with water there in case he would like a bath. Does that sound okay? I never see him drink, he has a water container we change every morning. I see him eat his food, but didn’t see him take one sip.
He will also not touch any real food we offer, no lettuce, parsley, basil, cilantro, spinach or dill.

Is it best if the cage bottom is solid and paper lined? Bisbee has no interest in toys we hang but maybe something placed on the bottom would interest him. Or not? Is the bottom of cage mostly a bathroom/ droppings space or should it be a useable surface for them?


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## Cody

When they adjust the crop it can sometimes be several times in a row. Going to sleep at the highest point in the cage is quite normal. Some birds will go to the bottom of the cage if there is something there they want like seed, some people will scatter seeds at the bottom, if the bottom is solid and not a grate, to encourage foraging behavior, but otherwise from the bird's perspective there is no reason to go there. If you see him sitting at the bottom of the cage doing nothing and looking puffed that is an indication of a very ill bird. It is not necessary for him to bathe so if you want to remove the water you have at the bottom that is not a problem, maybe once he becomes more comfortable he may be more interested. Budgies do not drink much water and I am not surprised that you have not seen him drink, as long as there is fresh water available he will drink if he wants it. It is possible they he was never accustomed to eating any veggies in his life prior to you finding him and does not realize that what you are offering is food, don't give up. Placing paper at the bottom of the cage is fine, you should be looking at the droppings on a daily basis, a change in the droppings can be one of the first signs of an illness and is something all bird owners should be doing. Are his droppings currently normal looking, for a budgie that is eating primarily seed they would be white in the center with a dark green almost black coil around the white. The white portion is the urates and the dark portion is the fecal part. Post a picture if you are unsure if they look normal.


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## appleflowers

Cody, thank you again. Its really reassuring to know that certain behaviors are completely normal and to know what to look for.
I think his droppings look just like what you described and are pretty much consistent in what they look like. 
I will try posting some pictures soon.


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## appleflowers

Bisbee has been with us for two weeks today. I want to catch him and kiss him, but he is not that comfortable. Yesterday we added some natural wood items to his cage and he was still very uncomfortable and spooked during the process, flying around the cage. He calmed down soon after the process was over. I was reading some stickies about possibly covering the bottom grate with paper and changing twice daily ,but that would still be so scary for him. I still put my hand into the cage at least twice daily to get him used to that. 
He is familiar with his food that we change daily. I was wondering if it is better to give him food as meals, a morning and evening meal, or have a bowl there available at all times?
I feel that he is still so scared, of us when we try to poke into the cage, of any toys and items placed into the cage, even of green leaves that I put there. 
When I found him in the wild he was on the trees and scavenging on the grass for some non grassy plant that was of interest to him. 
Is it possible that the act of me catching him traumatized him and resulted in him so very shy of close contact?
I had a few pieces of the plant he liked in my hand and he climbed onto my hand, after which I caught him with a net I had in my other hand. He was under the net until we got in the car and into a terrarium I had there. 
I have high hopes that we can tame him and that he can enjoy toys in his cage. 
He likes sounds and music, that’s for sure!

He is okay with a hand placed into the cage, when the hand is not trying to do anything like move things around or come too close to him. I can see that he is a bit tense and watchful but does allow the hand in the cage.
His breathing seems okay, he can breathe faster after some flying around the cage but mostly it is normal. 
When he opens and closes his beak, while not eating, making not sounds ( not chirping) but still making funny noises, like tiniest cracking noises - does that seem like a comfortable, or uncomfortable state of being? He does that when I am close to the cage and talk to him, and I have no idea if that scares or comforts him.


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## srirachaseahawk

appleflowers said:


> He is okay with a hand placed into the cage, when the hand is not trying to do anything like move things around or come too close to him. I can see that he is a bit tense and watchful but does allow the hand in the cage.
> His breathing seems okay, he can breathe faster after some flying around the cage but mostly it is normal.
> When he opens and closes his beak, while not eating, making not sounds ( not chirping) but still making funny noises, like tiniest cracking noises - does that seem like a comfortable, or uncomfortable state of being? He does that when I am close to the cage and talk to him, and I have no idea if that scares or comforts him.


Sounds like what is known as beak grinding, and it’s a very good thing. 
cats purr, budgies do this. It’s a way of showing contentment, usually right before falling asleep


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## appleflowers

srirachaseahawk said:


> Sounds like what is known as beak grinding, and it’s a very good thing.
> cats purr, budgies do this. It’s a way of showing contentment, usually right before falling asleep


He was definitely doing that before his bedtime. it warms my heart that it was a contented state of being!


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## Cody

As has been indicated, beak grinding is done when the bird is content, sometimes it looks like they are chewing something and will sometimes make little sounds. If he gets nervous when you are close and the beak is opening and closing he may be panting which is a sign of being nervous, often when they are panting they also become very skinny looking. How much food are you putting in his food dish and can you tell if he is picking and choosing only certain items and leaving others, what is in the mix you are feeding? Bisbee may have not have been a tamed bird before you caught him so his nervousness is very normal and even if he was he is now in a new home with new people. It can take months to get a bird to be comfortable with you, unlike cats and dogs that usually warm up to you sooner.


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## appleflowers

We fill his container with about 1 cm depth of food and change it daily. He does not eat all of it. He sort of nibbles on his food here and there. He also has stsinless steel bowl with greens but completely ignores it. Today I clipped broccoli to the side of cage but it also was ignored.

















He does not eat the colorful pellets


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## Cody

It's a good thing he is not eating all that seed as it would be too much for one bird for a day. No surprise he has not touched the pellets, I have found that the larger pellets are not as appealing as very small ones that are about the same size as a millet seed, not that any are really appealing  at least to my birds, but they will eat a bit of the Zupreem canary size.


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## appleflowers

Oh well, so what is the the normal amount of food offered daily? I would welcome tips. The first few days we filled that container, so this is much less than that. He does not eat all of it, and I change it to make sure there is no way it would become old and moldy. I read info and the ideal ( I guess) percentages of seed/ pellet/ fresh food they should be taking but this little guy will not, so far, take any fresh food or any pellet food.

My question originally was whether it would be better to give him food as meals, morning and evening, or is it better to leave it available all day long to nibble at as they please ?


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## FaeryBee

*Your budgie should get 1 1/2 teaspoons of seed per day.
You can divide that into two portions and offer one in the morning and one in the late afternoon if you prefer.
Leave the food in the cage all day. Don't give it and then take it out.

Have pellets in the cage 24/7.*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*It can take several weeks (or even months) for budgies to decide to try a new food.
Fruit is high in sugar content so vegetables are actually healthier for your budgies with fruits given only occasionally (once or twice a week)*


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## appleflowers

Thanks again for the info. I mix his 1.5 tbs seed with zupreem pellets (. very small) and I think he eats some pellets. We add greens daily and he at least interacted with them over the last couple days. Not sure if he took a nibble.
He seems to be getting comfortable. I gave him some beads and a new ladder. Still not playing but he knows they are there.

Do people generally wait until a budgie is hand tamed to let it out of the cage?
I feel like the taming will be on his terms so might be a while. But the coming out of the cage, getting to a vet and many others will not happen until he is hand tamed.Am I wrong?


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## Cody

Taming is always on their terms.  They do not have to be hand tame to come out of the cage or go to the vet. None of my birds are hand tame but they will step up for me onto a rope perch, they are all out of the cage all day unless I am not home. Usually when you first let a bird out of its cage it will fly around erratically and sometimes frantically and perhaps bump into walls and ceilings and eventually land somewhere. I find it is best to let the bird explore on its own while watching that he does not get into any problems. If you chase him in an effort to catch him he may become stressed and fall behind furniture or crash into something and injure himself. If he is in a room that has doors with outside access you will need to make sure no one accidently opens the door while he is out, windows should have some type of cover on them and so should any mirrors so he does not fly into them thinking he can go through them. Toilets need to be closed and no cooking going on in the kitchen. Leave his cage door open and it may be helpful to mount a perch on the outside of the cage in front of the door. I have a perch like in this link mounted on all my cages around the door https://www.amazon.com/JW-Comfy-Per...I,****UFX2LI,B007TU0SJW,B001BM3IPU,B0002AR72M, he may or may not go back into the cage on his own at first but eventually he should so the first few times you let him out be prepared to spend hours together and stay calm.


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## FaeryBee

*Do you have a small room you can bird-proof?
If so, then you could provide Bisbeeout-of cage time there.

I have untamed budgies that go back in their cage because I've used positive reinforcement training to teach them they will get a reward when they do so.
Initially, when I was ready for them to go back in the cage I would first dim the lights and pull down the shades in the room. If the radio or TV was on, I turned it off.

Then I would stand by their cage and ringing the bell on one of their toys while telling them, "It's time to go in your cage now!"
Once they went back into the cage, they were given a small bit of millet. 

This method worked well and they now go in the cage when asked to do so without the lights being dimmed or the blinds lowered and the TV or radio can stay on. 

Getting the millet reward is the best part of "going back home"*


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## appleflowers

I really want to let him out of the cage soon. The tips and info are very helpful, thank you.
I do not think any of my rooms is really bird safe. I can think of many things that can go wrong, all depends on how he would go about exploring the room. I can make sure to close bathrooms, cover mirrors, cover windows, stop cooking, but I will likely not move furniture. We have a sort of open plan and even ceiling heights change, which I imagine might be a problem. I am sort of terrified of letting him out for fear he will get hurt.
His cage has an opening top, which we did not use yet, but maybe I can open it, add that top perch, and hope that he will return to it once done flying. Might only try it on the weekend when I have the time.

I do very much want him to have some flying time and exercise out of the cage. I feel sorry he has to spend all his time in it.
As far as coming back to us, enticed by things he likes, it likely will not work.
He does not explore his cage much, does not go to the bottom, covered either with brown kraft paper or paper towels (trying to see if he prefers one or the other), will not play with beads, will not go on the ladder. I think mostly he seems afraid of all those things, even seems afraid of the lettuce and grapes I am putting there. Slightly afraid, so he does not go close.
He gets much more afraid when I change the paper or move things around ( not when I change food and water containers). Then he gets into his panting mode for a while, and I know he is stressed.
I can now tell when he is comfortable, he just sits on the perch and chirps a little or a lot. When something gets him worried he first just turns his back to the front of the cage and waits to see what happens, ready to fly onto the back wall.
He is happiest listening to girls playing music to him, or listening to budgies on YouTube, and chirping along with them. We call it the bird radio. Can there be too much of it or okay to let him listen for longer time ( when we are away)?
I kind of feel that this guy will not be tamed. I may have been a bit naive thinking it is easy to tame them. It is good to know others have budgies that are not tamed that can still spend time outside of cage and return, so possibly more trained than tamed.
As for pellets I was mixing some with his seed food and I think he was not eating it. Then I smelled the bag and it smells stale. It does not expire till March 2022 but it does not smell well. I will try getting another package that is fresher.
He does not even go to the millet we offer, did on occasion or two, but then not anymore. Does not like bell toys. Not sure what I can use for positive reinforcement when he is out of the cage.


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## srirachaseahawk

With respect to the budgie sounds, you should probably cut that out altogether. 
He is probably confused as to where the other budgies are and he’s going to get depressed that he can’t find them 
Music is 100% ok!
It’s good if you and your family talk or sing to him, and if you’re feeling adventurous; try chirping to him 

He will come around to the idea that you are his flock and family.

Don’t assume too much about the taming. This can literally take months, and it’s all about little steps and little victories


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## FaeryBee

*Playing budgie sounds will confuse him and he will want to be with those birds. You are better off playing music for him or the TV instead. 
My Avian Vet had me sprinkle Harrison’s high potency mash on my budgies’ seed mix to get them used to the taste. 
After that, I introduced Zupreem Fruity pellets (Canary size) and then Roudybush natural minis. (In separate dishes). *


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## appleflowers

)


srirachaseahawk said:


> With respect to the budgie sounds, you should probably cut that out altogether.
> He is probably confused as to where the other budgies are and he’s going to get depressed that he can’t find them
> Music is 100% ok!
> It’s good if you and your family talk or sing to him, and if you’re feeling adventurous; try chirping to him
> 
> He will come around to the idea that you are his flock and family.
> 
> Don’t assume too much about the taming. This can literally take months, and it’s all about little steps and little victories


We do talk to him, and make sounds. Crazy sounds too, kissing sounds etc. We do entertain him. play peek a boo. He really does seem to respond to his name, which is amazing. Sometimes we think he says goodbye back to us, seeing us leaving. We say “Bye Bisbee, see you soon” and he will chirp back. I think he loves the bird radio, I would hate to cut it out of his life until absolutely deemed detrimental. I think that in the morning he chirps loudly demanding his routine things, fresh food, new water, and the birdie radio before we leave.
Can it really be so bad?


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## FaeryBee

*Yes, as both the posts above indicate it is not recommended. He chirps because he wants to be with the birds he hears.
That is frustrating for him and not a good thing. *


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## srirachaseahawk

appleflowers said:


> )
> 
> 
> We do talk to him, and make sounds. Crazy sounds too, kissing sounds etc. We do entertain him. play peek a boo. He really does seem to respond to his name, which is amazing. Sometimes we think he says goodbye back to us, seeing us leaving. We say “Bye Bisbee, see you soon” and he will chirp back. I think he loves the bird radio, I would hate to cut it out of his life until absolutely deemed detrimental. I think that in the morning he chirps loudly demanding his routine things, fresh food, new water, and the birdie radio before we leave.
> Can it really be so bad?



Think about him like a 2 year old kid. 
If he heard other little kids laughing and playing, but could t find them to join in…. You see where I’m going. 

Highly recommend that you use different kinds of audio than other budgies


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## appleflowers

Oh, goodness, glad I wrote that and got feedback. Many thanks! Seems like that budgie caring thing does not come naturally to me. Ok, will stop budgie radio. The YouTube thing did say it will help a lonely bird and I guess I was naive to think it was the right thing to do.

I still do not know what we will do in December when we are out of town, but after that I think I would like to get a budgie male friend for Bisbee. Not sure yet how to go about it, but at least he would have budgie sounds he would not have to be frustrated about


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## srirachaseahawk

appleflowers said:


> Oh, goodness, glad I wrote that and got feedback. Many thanks! Seems like that budgie caring thing does not come naturally to me. Ok, will stop budgie radio. The YouTube thing did say it will help a lonely bird and I guess I was naive to think it was the right thing to do.



Don’t feel bad. It seems like the kind of thing that should make sense on the surface.


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## appleflowers

Can anyone recommend what other thing to put on when we are gone?


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## srirachaseahawk

appleflowers said:


> Can anyone recommend what other thing to put on when we are gone?


Music. 
If you have a streaming account, or even a cd player or mp3 collection. Anything. 

Mix up the music and see if he has a preference. 
Budgies like “treble” so things with higher pitches may land well.


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## Cody

Radio or TV will work fine.


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## appleflowers

Also, without having anything we know he likes, a toy or a food, so no chance of trying positive reinforcement to try to entice him to return to cage after being out - would it be better to wait until we establish what he likes that we can use to let him out, or better to just go for it while having no plan to entice him back?


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## appleflowers

Weekends are always fun as we are all home and can spend so much more time with Bisbee. He seems to like it too. After some unsuccessful tries last week he warmed up to hand offered millet.
We did not let him out of the cage. I am still very unsure on how to to safely do that and would rather be safe than sorry. Maybe this “introductions” post is getting too long, and I need to start a new post somewhere else on letting budgie out of the cage.
We are also trying to decide whether to try to find someone ( no one we know can do it) to leave him with for a week in December, or hope he has traveling spirit and take him with us ( which we are leaning towards). Can budgies do adventure?


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## Cody

Will you be driving to your destination, if so how long a drive and are there any pets where you are going?


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## appleflowers

Cody said:


> Will you be driving to your destination, if so how long a drive and are there any pets where you are going?


it is about 6-7 hours car drive for two days, hotel stays for the nights, then, well, that’s the adventure part, 4 nights camping ( so budgie travel case likely, or small cage that we have), then drive back.

No pets other than budgie


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## FaeryBee

*Where would you be camping? 
Where would you put Bisbee's cage at the campsite?
How cold/hot will it be outdoors during the days/nights?*


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## appleflowers

At this point leaving him behind would make me worry all the time about him. 


FaeryBee said:


> *Where would you be camping?
> Where would you put Bisbee's cage at the campsite?
> How cold/hot will it be outdoors during the days/nights?*


I am willing to upgrade our tent a size to accommodate him. It’s south Georgia coastline, so temps should be mild, but colder terms happen. We do that every year and there is a risk of cold temps. I am willing to sew a blanket cage cover for him, if that would do. Even a down blanket cage cover. His cage or travel carrier would be with us all the time.


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## FaeryBee

*It's been getting down to 58 degrees at night here in Central Florida this week.
I'd be worried about temperatures on the GA coastline in December -- even with a blanket over the cage...

Can you find a friend or neighbor that would come into your home to change out Bisbee's food and water a couple of times a day and spend 15-20 minutes with him each time?*


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## appleflowers

FaeryBee said:


> *It's been getting down to 58 degrees at night here in Central Florida this week.
> I'd be worried about temperatures on the GA coastline in December -- even with a blanket over the cage...
> 
> Can you find a friend or neighbor that would come into your home to change out Bisbee's food and water a couple of times a day and spend 15-20 minutes with him each time?*


Having a hard time finding anyone willing to help, this is prime vacation time for many, as this is school off time. How low is too low as far as temp? It is usually around 50s outside there, must be warmer in tent with 4 people, although I never measured that. One time only, it got as low as low 40s outside, so that is on my mind.


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## FaeryBee

*The ideal temperature for budgies is between 60 and 76 degrees Fahrenheit (15-24.5 degrees Celsius)*


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## Cody

Greater Chicago Cage Bird Society board birds but they require a recent psittacosis test so you would need to get him to a vet first, this is their website GCCBC


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## appleflowers

Cody said:


> Greater Chicago Cage Bird Society board birds but they require a recent psittacosis test so you would need to get him to a vet first, this is their website GCCBC


many thanks, will call them and find out


but I do worry about the stress of him going somewhere 
of course stress of him traveling would not be less, even though with familiar people around


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## Cody

Any time you take a bird from its familiar surroundings it is stressful, how about a pet sitter that would come to your house?


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## appleflowers

Cody said:


> Any time you take a bird from its familiar surroundings it is stressful, how about a pet sitter that would come to your house?


trying to find somebody, no luck so far, I am only looking among people I know already

so budgies do not travel well? some pets do, I was hoping budgies may do too

I know it could be stressful, but at the same time I just got him four weeks ago, and he was out in the wild and flying from tree to tree, he seemed to be enjoying the outdoors then


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## FaeryBee

*Some budgies do fine on car trips. My biggest concern is the temperatures when you are out on the camping adventure.

Long Distance Traveling with your Budgie

Also, how big is the travel carrier or small cage you would use?*


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## appleflowers

FaeryBee said:


> *Some budgies do fine on car trips. My biggest concern is the temperatures when you are out on the camping adventure.
> 
> Long Distance Traveling with your Budgie
> 
> Also, how big is the travel carrier or small cage you would use?*


we now have the prevue 11.5 x 8 x 15 cage that could be used for car ride, hotel and tent ( this was his first cage for a day before we got the bigger one)

I don’t have yet but would get the travel carrier also

what if he has a cozy sleeping bag type of cover for his carrier, with room for air of course
that should be cozy and warm


I fully understand that it would be risky, even the burden of having the pet there would make it harder than what we are used to, but I want to see if this could work, as it may well come down to that option for us. Leaving him at home, even with ample food supply, does not seem an option.

We were considering cancelling the rep trip, but no one really wants that.

I would have to try some small car rides with him and see how he does. Right now he pants when I get my big hands inside the cage to change the paper. But he calms down soon after the ordeal.
He really seems to love the sounds of water, water running etc. He might enjoy the sounds of the ocean


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## FaeryBee

*It's up to you if you want to take that risk of having him in a tent for 4 days, being concerned about the temperature, etc.
I know I personally would not risk it.
Additionally, that is a very small cage to have him in for a whole week. 

I'd be more inclined to work hard to find someone to come in to care for him while you are away or contact the Bird Society that Cody mentioned.
Leaving him home alone for a week is NOT an option. Too many things can go wrong when no one is around.

Good luck with your decision.*


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## appleflowers

FaeryBee said:


> *It's up to you if you want to take that risk of having him in a tent for 4 days, being concerned about the temperature, etc.
> I know I personally would not risk it.
> Additionally, that is a very small cage to have him in for a whole week.
> 
> I'd be more inclined to work hard to find someone to come in to care for him while you are away or contact the Bird Society that Cody mentioned.
> Leaving him home alone for a week is NOT an option. Too many things can go wrong when no one is around.
> 
> Good luck with your decision.*


Thank you! You have experience, I do not. The last thing I would like is a bird injury or worse when on our trip.
I will contact the place Cody mentioned And keep looking for a friendly soul to help out. We still have some time.


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## FaeryBee

*Good luck. I'm hoping you can find someone willing to come in once or twice a day.
It would be great if Bisbee is able to stay in his own environment. If not, then the place Cody mentioned will be your next best option. 💜💜*


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## justmoira

Is it possible to get some sort of portable space heater? This website lists a few tent heaters that could potentially work. https://www.bobvila.com/articles/best-tent-heater/


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## srirachaseahawk

justmoira said:


> Is it possible to get some sort of portable space heater? This website lists a few tent heaters that could potentially work. https://www.bobvila.com/articles/best-tent-heater/


Space heaters are usually coated in Teflon, which will release toxic fumes for the bird


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## FaeryBee

justmoira said:


> Is it possible to get some sort of portable space heater? This website lists a few tent heaters that could potentially work. https://www.bobvila.com/articles/best-tent-heater/


*It would really be best for Bisbee to stay at home or, second option, to be boarded as already established.*


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## appleflowers

I wanted to update that Bisbee has been with us 5 weeks now and is doing well. He still does not like our hands, or I should say my hands, inside the cage, which is okay.
My daughters both can feed him millet if it is in the morning when he seems the bravest.
We made him a woven willow mat on which he likes to perch a lot. It is nice that he can stretch his feet on it all the way.
He still will not touch fresh food, but I just place a piece of veggie on his mat everyday and hope for the best.


I have a vet appointment scheduled for him now. I have talked to three places that could take him in for boarding, I have details on one of them, waiting for details on the two others. One of the places is really close to us and would be very convenient but they require seven tests for which I would likely have to have two vet appointments and for which the price tag rather gave me a pause.
I could likely get a heated tent for all of us for less than that, haha!
I am waiting to see how things would look in the other two places.
He would be in a cage by himself but in a room with many other birds. Would that not be scary and stressful to him?

One thing that concerns me is that he still does have times when he pants a lot. It does not seem that he is stressed by anything In particular. Do birds just do that from time to time, breathing heavily, panting, then calming down?


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## Cody

He might enjoy the company of hearing other birds. Assuming there are no respiratory issues, panting is a sign of being nervous. I sent you a couple of options regarding boarding/ pet sitting please see your private messages, don't know if either will work but wanted to send to you.


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## appleflowers

wondering if his beak looks well, or too long?


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## FaeryBee

*It looks fine to me but check with the Avian Vet for a professional opinion when you take him in for his appointment.*


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