# Budgie on bottom of cage



## Batty4Budgies (11 mo ago)

I figure our budgie, Greg, needs to be taken to the avian vet but they are closed for the weekend. We just purchased our parakeet and he is just a baby. He was handled a bit rough getting him out of the cage at the bird store and I think he got hurt. He seemed fine last night and took water and explored his cage but this morning we found him on the bottom of his cage resting on his chest. We took him out and had him on our bed for a few hours but he was very inactive. This was not same bird at the pet shop that wouldnt stand still or even in the cage last night. He takes some millet but doesnt seem interested in the little dish of watee we put out. He will walk when he feels a threatened but when he decides to wander on his own he trys to pull himself with his beak. Sometimes he will pull himself forward and then drag his legs under him. Sometimes he just puts his beak forward and splays flat on his chest. If he sits my hand he will sit straight for a short time and then lean to the side propped up against the side of our hand. I called the bird shop and they said it is normal behavior for the bird to sit on the bottom of the cage as it feels more secure there until it gets used to its new environment. If he was sitting normal I wouldnt be so worried. Am I over reacting or should I take him to the vet?


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The abrupt change in his behavior and seeming loss of ability to move around is very concerning, if he is not able to stand on his own I would be taking him to a an avian vet asap. Do you have an avian vet. if not, you can search for one in this link by entering your city and state and opening the radius to more than 5 miles. https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
If there are none near you try to find an exotic vet as they usually treat birds .Please keep us updated on how the little one is doing, how old is the bird? Birds are usually terrified when first brought into a new home and may not do much or eat much until they are comfortable but that does not explain him dragging his legs, his wings have been clipped so he may have fallen in the cage and injured himself.


----------



## Batty4Budgies (11 mo ago)

I went back to the store and showed them some videos I took and pictures. I didnt want to further stress Greg if this was stress related. The worker at the store said it looks like he was injured and to take him to the avian vet. When we bought Greg they said he was very young but didnt give a specific age, I asked when we went back and they said 3 and a half months old. I am slightly iratated as we purchased Greg from this store because we thought them a better source than a chain like petsmart but they offer no guarantee on their parakeets and no offer to take to the vet for us. I called the vet yesterday and they were closing so I couldnt get an appointment but did tell me just the exam would be $160. Greg cost $140 and we barely had him less then 24 hours and the store offered nothing. The question I have is what exactly will a vet do? I have no problem paying for a vet if there is a chance to save Greg but I cant fathom what a vet can possibly due for him. We found a litter of 3 kittens and took them in because they were abandoned by their mother. Turns out they were abandoned because two of the kittens had a degerative disease they got through the birth canal. We didnt realize it until a few months in when the one kitten was far larger and healthier than her brothers. Between the first two check up visits for all 3 and the subsequent emergency visits for the two little boys that ended up in both of them passing away hours later the vet cost was a couple of thousand. We have a tendency to expect miracles from the vet when nature is much more pragmatic. 
Greg is eating and will chirp ever once in a while. He perks up when he sees my daughters cockatiel. We hopefully will get him to the vet today or tomorrow at the latest depending upon availabilty. The vets in our area are all pretty booked up and have less capacity due to covid office restrictions.
Hate to be a pessimist but after other forums I have read I am not holding out hope. Honestly Greg is so young that I wonder if the additional stress of another trip from his cage to a carrier to a another new environment at the vets will be the nail in his coffin.


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

He looks younger than 3 and half months to me, was he hatched at the store so that they would have a record of the hatch date? An avian vet will first do a physical exam , here is some info about what that consists of The Avian Physical Examination what the vet can do will be determined by what is found. How is he this morning, is he still dragging himself? If something is fractured, that needs to be addressed and treated, the sooner you get him to a vet the better to prevent further damage or suffering. I understand that things do not always turn out the way we expect with the vet but I feel that it is the best chance of a resolution to whatever the issue may be. I would put a towel or something soft in the carrier for him to lay on if he cannot perch and cover the carrier with another towel to keep the stress down.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*That baby is definitely younger than 3 1/2 months and the owners of the pet store should be making restitution for handling him roughly.
It is not a good indication of their ethics and responsibility if they are not sure of the budgie's age AND do not know how to handle a baby bird.
Please try to get to the baby to an Avian Vet as quickly as possible. I'm so sorry you had this experience.
Personally, I would be talking to the manager or owner of that store once you have the little baby stabilized and under Avian Veterinarian care.
Please let us know how things progress. Sending love, prayers and healing energy for the baby.

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma.
This is important as "regular" vets will often overlook symptoms that are quickly obvious to an Avian Vet.
When you rely on anyone who has not had training in Avian diagnosis and care, you may be delaying effective treatment.
This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recovery than it would have if you seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.
IF, at all possible, try to find an Avian Vet that has the Avian Certification -- ABVP, they have the most experience.
If there are no Avian Vets near you, please find an Exotic Pet Veterinarian with experience in dealing with small birds.
*


----------



## Batty4Budgies (11 mo ago)

Greg started hobbling about his cage last night. My husband found him up on his lowest perch when he came back in the room later in the evening. A little bit later he was over on his food perch eating a bit. I havent observed him drinking but he has been pooping up a storm and it looks normal. He slept last night in his food dish and I didnt disturb him as he seeemed stable. He got himself out of his dish in the morning and sat on the edge for awhile then transferred over to the perch he moved slowly back and forth on his perch then rested a bit and the moved above the millet and hopped down onto the millet to the floor of the cage where he rested propped up againt the millet spray for a bit. He has chirpped a few times sometimes a couple times in a row so I am hoping that is a good sign. There is a cotton dish towel in the bottom of his cage to make him more comfortable. I qualify his motion to although improved to hopping it is just on the left lef while he holds the right leg up. This is better than him dragging it behind him yesterday. There was no blood yesterday morning and no visible bruising on his legs so I have no idea how bad the injury is but it now apparent that he is definitely favoring one leg. Yesterday he seemed weak on both legs. I have not noticed him doing the beak pull where he splays himself flat on the ground. He will rest down on his body but seems a bit more steady today. I am hoping he is getting enough water. He has a shallow dish on the bottom of the cage and I have lowered his water dispenser down to the lower perch so he can access that as well.
We will take Greg to the vet tomorrow. Someone was nice enough to send a link to an avian vet and that is the one I called yesterday that was closing for the day. They are closed on sundays so I will hopefully get him in tomorrow when they open again.
Out of curiousity, how old do you think Greg is and would his young age be beneficial or detrimental to his recovery? The store said they bred them there but initially told me the youngee parakeets were 129 but when I went to pay they told me the price is actually 139 due to the trouble they have getting them. That seemed odd for two reasons. One if they bres them where is the problem in getting them, they just bred them. Two if they dont bred them why is it that Petsmart has no problem getting parakeets and only charge 40 but they find parakeets scarce so have increased their price. Now the individual who helped us both with roughly rangling Greg so my son could hold him and gave us the info about the price increase was a young man and could have mis spoke as he was obviously inexperienced. I am torn about the shop. We got my daughters cockatiel from them in september and they were very helpful and seemed trustworthy. We also got a parakeet from them previously and had no problem whatsoever in getting the bird from the cage for my son to hold and the bird, Georgie was sweet and playful and had a very easy adjustment to our home and bonded with my son.
All that aside we are focused on Greg right now and we hope he pulls through so he gets a chance to bond with our family as well.
Thanks everyone for your advice and I will keep u updated on Gregs condition.

My husband just saw Greg drinking so that is good news. However I thought his nostrils looked a little red so I took a picture. Mu husband thinks it just shadow but I wasnt sure. I did some googling on how to tell age amd I understand wjy evryone feels he is youngee than we were told. Hope that doesnt mean he wasnt properly weaned. Now I wonder if he is in fact a boy. I found another site and from what I can tell by his cere color and age he really seems to be a she. Does anyone have any opinions on the sex? Greg's name may need to morph to Greginia or something


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*In the pictures, "Greg" looks to me like "he" could possible be a female. 
You could always name the baby Gwen or Gracie, if s/he is actually a female.

The cere looks much too light for a male in the pictures you posted but that may be the lighting.
More pictures of the cere (full frontal view taken in natural light with no flash and no direct sunlight) would be helpful.
If the cere is actually a deep translucent pinkish/purple color then that indicates male.

What is the clay thing on the bottom of the cage? It looks like a pot or something?
That should be removed from the cage.

From what I can see, the baby is no more than 6-8 weeks old. 
Did you ask the shop the age and/or hatchdate of the baby?
Does the baby have a breeder band on its leg?

I'm very glad you will be taking the budgie into the Avian Vet tomorrow. 💜

Whomever you bought the bird from could be getting their budgies from a local "hobby breeder".
You would have to ask the shop what breeder they use and where the breeder is located. 

PetSmart gets their budgies from "birdie mills" which is why we never recommend going to big box pet stores.
Why buy from Reputable/Ethical Breeders rather than Big Box pet stores.*


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I am relieved to see that Greg looks better today, I agree that the cere is light for a male and that Greg may be a female. Hope all goes well at the vet, please keep us posted.


----------



## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the forums! 

Greg (but I am also thinking Gracie based on the photos you posted ) seems better today but I agree it's best to have a vet check her over to make sure there is no internal damage. Budgies are extremely fragile and light so it is not at all hard to accidentally injure them internally while handling them roughly.

Meanwhile, please be sure to read through the forums' many budgie articles and "stickies" to ensure you're up to date on the best of budgie care practices. If you have any questions after doing so, feel free to ask as we'd love to help. 

Please keep us posted on your little one's condition! 

Fingers crossed all goes well.


----------



## Batty4Budgies (11 mo ago)

Good News Bad News
Good news is Greg is doing much better today. Much more active, moving with more stability, perching more, more vocal.
Bad news is I feel like I was just fleeced out of $220 by the Vet. Not only could they not me Gregs sex without doing bloodwork but when I asked if they could give me a better idea of age the vet askes if I knew the hatch date. I ask you if I new the hatch date would I need to ask him to get the birds age?
He looked at Gregs legs which looked good but said he wouldnt know for sure without an xray. I didnt do the xray since he has been mending it seemed exteme to put him through. They ran some basic labs for desease and advises he should be put on a pellet dier once he is better. I am not sure what everyone on this forum feels about pellets but when its pitched to me as replace all seed with pellets and do 50% pellets and 50% fruit and veg I have to ask why is that better than 50% seed and 50% fruit and veg? Not sure why its healthier to feed birds processed food. I get varying their diet so they get more nutrients but I can see where something processes is better than something natural. There are alot of seed maybe just pick some that are lower in fat. And pellets have alot of cabohydrates that convert to sugar and become fat so why is that any better?
Honestly, I just didnt get a warm and fuzzy this guy knew much about birds I feel I got the same service I would have gotten from my general vet. Definitely not going back there.
Oh, and he thinks Greg is a He cause of the blue cere. When I mentioned at the younger ages girls do have bluish cere and boys can have pinkish cere he mentioned something about a disease and didnt acknowledge this as a possibilty but thats when we got into does he have a guess at how Greg may be and he asked if I knew the hatch date.
Sorry if I am being cynical. I want Greg to be happy and healthy but I am so frustrated by that vet visit. Fingers crossed he keeps mending but if he takes a turn for the worse I am not going back there, its eithee our regular vet or the animal hospital who does have a bird specialist.
Here is another picture of Greg. If anyone has any opinions of sex or age it would be appreciated. He is more active which is a good thing but he has to be held more securely now.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Was the vet you took Greg to the Certified Avian Vet for which I sent you the link? (I REALLY hope not!) If so, your review is extremely distressing .
An ABVP should know how to determine a budgie's gender by the cere color unless they generally treat only large birds. 
DNA testing (blood work) for determining gender is not necessary for a budgie.

In the latest pictures you posted the cere looks a light whitish-pink color to me (Female). In the previous pictures the cere looked whitish/blue to me.
What color are you seeing when you look at the cere? 

I will ask @StarlingWings and @wmcburke to weigh in on Greg's gender based on the latest pictures -- but more pictures may yet be required.

Please take a look at the information in this link:*
*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*

*I'm sorry the experience you had with the vet was not a good one.
How does Greg's leg seem today? 
Is s/he moving around better now? 
Is s/he able to grip and sit comfortably on the perches or is s/her still staying on the bottom of the cage?*


----------



## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the vet. I agree with FaeryBee, this is absolutely NOT the way an avian vet visit should go and the vet obviously lacked not only experience with budgies but also professionalism. 

As you'll see in the link above, it's never reccomended to feed a budgies exclusively pellets, they should have some seed as well. "Processed" food for domesticated animals is usually necessary because in most cases it is very hard to give them the correct balance of nutrients and vitamins that they would normally get in the wild; keep in mind wild budgies do not mostly eat seed and have a varied diet including insects, various plant matter, and various other things that they forage. 

As for gender from the photos you posted I do think Greg is going to turn out to be female. Since Greg is still so young it's hard to tell 100% for now but in 2-3 weeks it should be more obvious; I hope you'll post some more pics around that time and we can confirm for sure! 

I hope Greg is able to heal properly soon


----------



## Batty4Budgies (11 mo ago)

Thanks for your feedback. I am pretty sure its the same vet that I got the link for. I was told though that the vet I saw was $50 less than the other vet so I am guessing they didnt have me see the avian specialist or that this vet was training as a specialist.
Although my experience at the vet was subpar Greg is doing well. S/he is perched right now but spends about 50 50 on the bottom of the cage or perched. S/he is moving about alot more and gripping with both feet now. S/he also got alot of her/his spunk back and it was a bit of a challenge transfering from the cage to the travel case. Appetite is still good and s/he is drinking and pooping regularly. Every day has been an improvement and rhe chriping is more regular as well.
I will keep everyone posted on Gregs progress and if the cere color changes at all in the next couple of weeks and Greg becomes a Gwen.
Thanks for all of the support.


----------



## Batty4Budgies (11 mo ago)

Wanted to update everyone on Gregs status. He has been doing well and really perks up when my daughters cockatiel comes for a play date. We r thinking of getting him a room mate but wanted to make sure of his sex so we dont have an accidental breeding. Anyone have any thoughts? Is his nose blue or turning pink?


----------



## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

It’s really hard to tell actually though I’m really leaning female still. In a few weeks it should be even more apparent!!


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I agree that Greg still appears to be female.
I would not rush out to get another budgie right away. Take some time to get to know Greg and his/her personality.
Keep in mind that when you bring home a friend for Greg, you will need to follow the quarantine process.

Quarantine means housing the new bird in a different cage in a different room than the current bird (as far away from the room the current bird is in as possible) for a period of 35-45 days.

Budgies mask symptoms when they are ill. Symptoms may not show up for over two weeks. 
Often you will not even realize your bird is not well. Many budgie illnesses are airborne which is why you need to quarantine your new bird in a completely different room.
*
*Quarantine - Is it Really that Important?*
*Quarantine Your Birds*

*It is also a good idea to always take a new budgie in to see an Avian Vet for a "well-birdie" check-up. This allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet and the vet can establish a baseline for your bird in case of any future illnesses or injuries.*


----------

