# Slight tail bobbing



## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Hello All;

About 2 months ago a big earthquake happend where I lived. M:7.0
it was at daytime. My budgies so scared naturally. But there was no problem at that day. But after main shock there were several aftershocks. One of them was at night time, when my boys were sleeping. I run to them immedialtly open the lights but until I went them I think he felt from his swings and hit his right leg some of his toys or perches I dont know. After that he began to limping. I took him to the vet. The vet wants to see xrays and said there is no broken bones but seems little bit injury on his femur. and adviced me to wait 15 days. By the time he got lost 2 gr of his weigths, but still playfull chirping and there is no signs of any other illness exept limping. We waited 15 days then I took him to vet again for checkup. But he was still limping. the vet took xrays again and femur got began to heal but not completely. By the way I asked him to test his droppings because I was scared about stress could cause any other illness. according to test
staphylococcus bacteria was found his droppings. He gave us antibiotic mix for his treatment for 5 days.

I tried to give him med. orally first 2 days but my boy is really stubborn and couldnt open his mounth. I'm not sure but I might get some medication on his cere or nose. after that I heard some wheezy sounds when he flies too much. not every time he breaths, just after fly around too much and gets tired. just during 1 or 2 seconds. and I'm noticing that he might bobing his tails. Butoncer I'm not sure. His tail not bobbing every time. just when he relaxing and when he sleeps on his swings. I can not get his video because he never sit still when he sees phone. But I found a video from another budgie tail bobbing. My boys tail look like his on video. by the way wheezy sounds stoped. But tail bobbing concerns me. might I cause that or should I be worried. I'm not sure. I dont want to took him to vet because every time we go to vet they got scared so much and being stressfull. and I dont want them to be stresful for no reason. So my question is should I worried for him like this tail bobbing, is it normal. (his normal mood is ok eating playing all normal)

By the way second question is 1 month has passed from his leg injured but he still get his right foot to belly sometimes,not limping just take his foot to belly. Is that normal still doing that after so many times. is femur healing takes to much time?

Tail bobbing budgie video:
[nomedia="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcnkdPOysyU"]Budgie tail bobbing - YouTube[/nomedia]

Thanks in advance..


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

A very slight movement of the tail is normal as it is in sync with breathing. Respiratory issues as well as abdominal issues can cause increased tail bobbing. I suggest at the very least you call the vet and ask if you can bring in a fresh dropping so they can retest to see if the infection has cleared. It is common for budgies to rest on one foot when asleep or relaxing, just make sure he is not favoring the foot at other times.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks Cody;

Actually foot tucking can be during day but I can not be sure, if he is relaxing or else. it can be just 1 or 2 minutest max. then he can be active as usual.

This morning his droppings little bit runnier than normal, I added guardian angel to their water and will wait 2 more days to see their status.

I'll call my vet at the same time but can they need get samples from his crop if it's related to respiratory problems. I'm not sure. I dont want to be late if there is any illness but also I dont want them to be stress cause of vet trip for no reason...


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The crop is part of the digestive system, and yes the vet would have to see the bird to do a swab and test to see if there is a problem in the crop as opposed to further down in the digestive tract, but since the initial problem was identified in the dropping it makes sense to recheck it to see if the problem has cleared up or if further medication is needed.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks Cody;

I called the vet and he said due to pandemic they dont accept new patients until Monday. I will test his droppings again on monday morning. 

Last night my boy sneezed couple of times and breath like there is a water on his nose. but after sneezing he back to normal breathing. I think he got cold..
his droppings little bit watery but not so much just softer than usual not so much puffed up eat normally play less but no sleepiness, he scratchs himself more than usual I'm not sure if its sign of anything.. I dont think molting season there is no feathers around and no pin feathers and my home is nearly 23.5-25 C deg. Should I increase the heat? or what should I do until monday? is Guardian angel good idea until monday? 

Thanks in advance.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The temperature you have in the room should be fine, however if you see that he is puffing up you can cover the cage on 3 sides to keep it warmer for him and do not encourage any activity if he seems to feel unwell. The Guardian Angel should be fine for him.
Assuming that you are not currently giving any meds that he could aspirate that would cause sneezing, if he continues to sneeze and you see a discharge he will need to be seen by the vet as that could indicate an upper respiratory infection that needs treatment right away so that it does not worsen.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks Cody;

he has not sneezed since yesterday and there is no discharge hopefully. He just scratchs his top of head so much. I hope monday wouldn't be late. 

we will see the results. Thanks again.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

If there is a sinus infection and he feels pressure internally, that could cause him to be rubbing the area above and around the cere and around the eyes.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Ohh I did not know that thanks. 

I just came from the vet ( she called me and she can do test today ) I took their droppings to her and the results not good actually. She found mega bacteria in their stools according to her this not much ( 3 in 1 field ) ,but must treat. She gave them nystatin 3 drops for one of them 4 drops for the other one because one of my boys is 34 gr other is 44 gr. for 5 days we will use it. then she does another test again.

when they were 1 year old another vet found mega bacteria and then she gave us ampho. we could treat them back then. But I never used nystatin. Do you know nystatin is as effective as ampho? additionally she gave us probiyotic for their water. also I will continue to add Apple cider vinegar to their water. 
the water wiill be 6 hours a day with proiotic then I willl change the water with ACV.

Another question is mega bacteria cause this symptoms. like slight tail bobbing sneezing else..

Thanks in advance.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Megabacteria aka Avian Gastric Yeast (AGY), is not a respiratory disease, so it would not directly cause sneezing but could be a reason for a stressed immune system allowing for the bird to be more susceptible to respiratory issues, it could be a reason for tail bobbing as it effects the GI tract and can cause discomfort.
In my experience Ampho B is the drug of choice to treat, AGY is a fungal infection, Megabacteria is a misleading name as it implies it is a bacteria but it is not. Nystatin is an anti-fungal med but to my knowledge is not as effective against the AGY as the Ampho B. 
Here is a link to something that will explain in more detail
https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Megabacteriosis-Avian-Gastric-Yeast.pdf


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks Cody,

Yes I know that is kind of yeast. Actually last couple of days I realise that when they feeding each other on my finger their regurgitated seeds smell like sour yeast. Our ex vet told us it could be sign of megabacteria. I give them one day of week 5 drops of ACV with their water. But it seems it's not enough for them. I dont know what is caused that fungal illness. Maybe earthquake stress makes their immune system weaker. Im not sure. 

By the way this vet told us new studies show that nystatin is less harmfull for their kidney but effective for fungal organism. She believes ampho is little bit posinous than nystatin. I read some articals that nystatin can work too but Im not sure.

I don't know what to do. But I dont want to be late. Because I know this fungus is stubborn so I think I'm going to use it for 5 days than if it's still exist on their droppings I will ask ampho from vet. But in this time can yeast develop resistants to drugs. Is it good idea to use it?


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The Ampho B is a pretty harsh med as I understand it, follow your vet's advice and follow up with additional tests on the droppings. Since you noticed that regurgitated seeds smell sour, I would ask the vet about a condition called sour crop, if there is a yeast infection in the crop the Nystatin will treat that, if it is a bacterial infection then an antibiotic is required. In any case the regurgitated seed should not smell sour, that is an indication that something is not right.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks cody,

I give medicine twice. So far he is not good. Until medicine he was much better but today he puffed up and looks so silent.. after giving medicine he breaths with sounds. And today it is strange that his feets looks so pale so light pink and feels cold. I really dont know what happend. He was better before nystatin. I saw so many feathers around cage this morning also. But he usually not feel bad when molting seasons. he always come to me when I called him but this morning he does not want to come to me just stays his top of cage... this is not him  

By the way they usually eat harrisons high potency super fine and zupreem fruit blend and seed mix twice a day( I give seed mix twice a day not always on cage) 
But today I changed zupreem food bowl with harrisons because zupreem contains sugar and sugar is not good for yeast I think. but is that a good idea I'm not sure. because they love zupreem also. 

Just an hour ago I cleaned all corner of cage every toy with soap and water. I know AGY can contain every thing. 

But his todays' mood concern me a lot .I called vet but she does not turn me yet. I dont know what to do....


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Make sure he is comfortable and warm and that he is eating and drinking and wait to hear from the vet. Call back before the vet closes for the day if you have not already heard back from her.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Vet called me and said this is normal on moods changes. Ups and downs are normal on megabacteria according to her.but actually Im not sure. She also said to me continue nystatin and on monday morning she wants to test his droppings again to see if there is additional problem and thursday morning end of 5th day we will test his droppings again for if nystatin is working. By the way in the afternoon he looks better. Play little bit and fly around. So in this time like you said I will keep them warm and make sure they are eating and drinking. We will see progress..


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Glad he is looking better. I had a bird several years ago that had AGY and he had a lot of ups and downs. He was on Ampho B and also on Metacam which can help with inflammation.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

They look better today much chirping and playing a lot but still not completely their usual themself.

But there is the thing, they dont eat harrisons much these days,and their appetite is increased so much.. So I have to put much seeds than normal. But I m not comfortable with that totaly.. because seed is corbohydrate. So if the much seeds makes them worse? But if I dont give it they will lose weight and it is the worst thing in this stuation. I try to give them fresh varıous veggies but they dont eat except spinach.Should I use 3 days of week ACV and 4 days guardian angel for vitamins and probiyotics. Is that a good idea? Is there any side effects that use guardian angel long term?

Second question is when they were 1 year old, Our ex vet treat their AGY with sodium benzoate and ampho b. I want to use sodium benzoate again but with nystatin is it cause any problem? Can I find sodium benzoate in any where or must it be special formula?

I read so many titles here and so many articles from vets. Most of them saying ampho is better.I know AGY can treatble with good care and right meds I saw it personaly before with my boys.moreover they were worse off then, undigested foods vomitin losing weight etc, (this time just silent and puffed little and cold feet).but this time Im not totaly comfortable are we doing the wrong treatment with this vet? I'm little bit concern actually... our ex vet is living in another city now and 7 hours driving from here She is the best avian vet in our country. I will call her too but I can not bring my boys to her all the time..so it makes me more panic mod.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Dudusthebudgie said:


> They look better today much chirping and playing a lot but still not completely their usual themself.
> 
> But there is the thing, they dont eat harrisons much these days,and their appetite is increased so much.. So I have to put much seeds than normal. But I m not comfortable with that totaly.. because seed is corbohydrate. So if the much seeds makes them worse? But if I dont give it they will lose weight and it is the worst thing in this stuation. I try to give them fresh varıous veggies but they dont eat except spinach.Should I use 3 days of week ACV and 4 days guardian angel for vitamins and probiyotics. Is that a good idea? Is there any side effects that use guardian angel long term?
> 
> ...


I think it would be best for you to speak to your former vet and ask these questions of her, she can guide you and put your mind at ease as to the best course of treatment and you may want to ask about her consulting with your current vet.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

I just coming from our vet I added the todays droppings result pictures. 
According to her count of AGY is decreased. but gram negative bac. increased. So she gave us bytril for 3 days long twice a day. 

Additionally I send this pictures to our ex vet to ask her if we doing the right treatment about nystatin. She said that she can not see any megabacteria in second results pic but this pics' can mislead so she can not be sure about mega or any desease. She said she must do pysical exam and does test.

But she said that even if there are mega bacteria nystatin is not for budgies AGY problem and not effective treatment for that, and also said sodium benzoat is a good idea. So she will send me some to add their water. 

But if there is not mega bacteria. what is wrong with my boy I'm really confused. and there is no another avian vet around here...
I will use nystatin for 2 more days and bytril as well. that test will be done again their dropings. after that I will use guardian angel and ACV for long term and look his conditions. Hope they will be ok... But I'm not really comfortable at all.. So far they are look better chirping and eating but mood changes still exist..


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The Megabacteria organism does not always show up in the droppings so it can be misleading to judge just from the smear of the droppings, it is common for a bacterial infection to occur along with it and is important to treat for it. I have used Baytril many times but always for longer than just 3 days, what is the strength of the Baytril you have? I have used 50mg per ml twice a day for 2 weeks.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

We will use baytril orally. But I dont know how many grams it is she prepared for me in little bottle. One drop for one of them. 2 drops for other. Vet says it is more efficitent with that way. Additionally we are adding ACV to their water. So baytril and ACV can not be together at the same time. So we decided that baytril can be given orally..

normal usage of baytril mixing their water right?

But to be honestI would prefer to mix in water cause I'm really having a hard time when try to give them medicine. It is real nightmare for me and for them as well &#128542;

By the way Im really confused about nystatin and AGY. In this article they studied to treat budgies with nystatin and got succesful results. But our ex vet said nystatin is not for AGY. I'm really really confused . I just want to do right thing.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...riosis_in_budgerigars_Diagnosis_and_treatment


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I have never mixed Baytril in the water, and I am not familiar with a form of it that is made for putting in the water, I have always given directly into the mouth. When you mix something in the water you cannot be sure that the bird is ingesting enough to be effective against the problem. It is my understanding that Ampho B is the best drug to treat an active infection of AGY.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks Cody;

Actually he is not in good mood today. much more sleepy but chirping and playing a little too.. I think after baytril he might feel worse. I'm not sure just guess. Just two more days after that their dropping will be testted again. So I'll look what can we do. But I start thinking that were better before all medicines.


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## Dudusthebudgie (Nov 1, 2017)

Update;

Today I talked to vet again and I said I worried that there must be another problem with my boy. Cause his breathing problem still exist. she wanted to see him. I Took my boy to vet and they got xray and droppings results again. According to xray result. ( I uploaded pic) There may be a metal in his body. There is no metal toy in cage or elsewhere and I dont use any metal objects around them . I dont know how this thing got in their bodies

dropping results: AGY is decreased so many but still exist tiny. better than before. 

But the biggest thing that worries me is suspected metal poisoning.she gave us avicare digestive 10 ml. For poisoning but as I know ca edta is the right med.

After came home and do some reserch about avicare I m not comfortable totaly again..
I asked her to ca edta but she did not back to me yet. 

My question is can ca edta given orally? And the how much should I use it and how long?

Thanks in advance.

PS: This morning I sent this xray to another vet and he said that these are not metal , according to him these are crop grit. but I dont think crop's place is there .. I dont know what to do and who to trust... I'm really stuck Please any advice is welcomed....


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