# Help with mutations



## Jema6 (Nov 3, 2021)

Hi. I’m new to budgies, but not birds. I have a GC conure who is my best friend and cuddle buddy. 
About a month ago, my nephew rehomed his budgies with me. Since then I’ve been trying to determine the mutations but I’m just not experienced enough to be sure. So I’m looking for confirmation if you don’t mind?

the first one is Tilly. I believe she is a recessive pied. No iris. Pale yellow. Her belly seems to be grey, but back markings are black and beneath her wings. 

the next two are of Banana. I’m guessing dominant pied, possibly clear wing? But he does have marking on belly, so I’m not sure. He does have irises and color on his back under wings.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Pretty birds, how old are they, someone will be along later to confirm the mutations. On the first picture of Banana I see what looks like some white patchiness on his cere, is that what is actually there, if so my concern is scaly face mites.


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## Jema6 (Nov 3, 2021)

Cody said:


> Pretty birds, how old are they, someone will be along later to confirm the mutations. On the first picture of Banana I see what looks like some white patchiness on his cere, is that what is actually there, if so my concern is scaly face mites.


They are about a year old. No mites. I’m quite familiar with mites being a bird owner already. I think the mottled cere may be part of his mutation. I think, I’m not positive, that a DF dominant pied won’t get a bright blue cere. I assure you they are healthy, well take care of, and spoiled.


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## srirachaseahawk (Sep 5, 2021)

Paging @StarlingWings , awaiting your Starbucks order…


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## Jema6 (Nov 3, 2021)

additional pics


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## wmcburke (Sep 30, 2021)

The photos are on the dark side which may be making the colors appear darker than they are in life, but what I see is:

Tilly: single factor yellowface type 1 grey recessive pied

Banana: Olive green double factor dominant pied.

No clearwing. DF dominant pieds have that 'clearness' of wing that you're seeing.


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## Jema6 (Nov 3, 2021)

wmcburke said:


> The photos are on the dark side which may be making the colors appear darker than they are in life, but what I see is:
> 
> Tilly: single factor yellowface type 1 grey recessive pied
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input!!! Interesting. How would you know Tilly is yellow face. Her whole body is a consistent pale yellow besides the darker markings. Are there other characteristics that could make her yellowface?


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## wmcburke (Sep 30, 2021)

Jema6 said:


> Thanks for your input!!! Interesting. How would you know Tilly is yellow face. Her whole body is a consistent pale yellow besides the darker markings. Are there other characteristics that could make her yellowface?


Yellowface type 1 is pale yellow. When in single factor (inherited from one parent, not both), and after the first moult, it tends to spread over the body. When the budgie in question is also a pied, it spreads especially effectively over the white areas.

Tilly could not be a yellow-based budgie given that she is also grey. Visual grey can only happen on blue-series budgies (white-based). So the pale yellow on her is the result of yellowface.


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## Jema6 (Nov 3, 2021)

wmcburke said:


> Yellowface type 1 is pale yellow. When in single factor (inherited from one parent, not both), and after the first moult, it tends to spread over the body. When the budgie in question is also a pied, it spreads especially effectively over the white areas.
> 
> Tilly could not be a yellow-based budgie given that she is also grey. Visual grey can only happen on blue-series budgies. So the pale yellow on her is the result of yellowface.


Cool. I would have never come to that conclusion. I assumed she was yellow based. I’m off to research grey factor. These genetics fascinate me. So glad I posted. Thank you!!


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## wmcburke (Sep 30, 2021)

Jema6 said:


> Cool. I would have never come to that conclusion. I assumed she was yellow based. I’m off to research grey factor. These genetics fascinate me. So glad I posted. Thank you!!


My pleasure. Grey is pretty straight forward dominant. Easy to diagnose on a blue series bird but much trickier on a green series bird. Much like violet in that regard, which behaves similarly inheritance-wise. They are both what are called color-adding mutations. They alter the base color rather than being a color unto themselves.

Did your nephew provide any history about these two, i.e are they related? Did he know the colors of the parents?


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## Jema6 (Nov 3, 2021)

wmcburke said:


> Did your nephew provide any history about these two, i.e are they related? Did he know the colors of the parents?


He said they both came from the same cage, but he thought one was older because of size, they do have bands with different color writing on them, which might mean two different breeders. I’m waiting to get closer to read them to hopefully find out more. I don’t want to stress them out if they are still getting used to us.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

100% agree with wcmburke, they've given a great explanation. Tilly and Banana are adorable!


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