# Budgies hormonal - fighting



## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

*Injured foot*

When I came home today, I heard some strange noise coming from my budgies. When I came closer, I saw one of them holding his leg up and covering it. I tried to examine it and saw he has a cut on one of his toes. He's not bleeding but the cut is visible and it seems to hurt because he's not using it as much. He is still very active and chirping, flying around etc.
I noticed similar cuts before on the legs of another budgie and I realized one of the budgies bit them. I'm not sure which one as I have 4 of them. Two of them are females and this two with cuts are male. I'm at lost here at what to do to help this injured budgie and how to prevent other injuries. They all live together in a big cage and usually they are best friends! I never noticed one of them being hostile so that I have to remove him from the flock.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Check all the areas of the cage including perches and toys to ensure there are no sharp edges that may be causing the injuries.

You indicate you "realize one of the other budgies bit them" 
How did you come to this determination?

If that is indeed the case, then you are going to need to monitor your budgies very carefully to determine which budgie is causing the injuries to the other. 
Separating them into pairs in two separate cages may be necessary.*


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

I can't be 100% sure that other budgie bit them but I checked the entire cage and couldn't find anything sharp or that doesn't seem safe. They don't have any new toys. I will check everything once again to be sure.
They both had small cuts on both sides of one toe, that made me think another budgie bit them! They are sometimes really playful and too active and one of my females is half english budgie so she tends to be less vocal and active. Sometimes they annoy her, try to preen her etc. and even though she's not aggressive I saw her snap a couple of times. One time she even bit me really hard because I tried to catch her.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*It's important that you do everything you can to determine how these injuries are happening.

If one of the budgies becomes aggressive when annoyed s/he might severely injure one of the others.

I'm not giving you information simply to scare you, only to give you facts.

Budgies don't have much blood and if a deep cut occurs when you is not around, the bird could easily bleed out and die.*


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

I'm aware that every injurie for budgie could be fatal, that's what I'm worried about. I've had them for 3-4 years (I didn't got them all at once) and I'm well aware of they personalities, safety etc. and never before we had these kind of problems. When I'm home I keep them in the living room with me and I never noticed anything unusual or hostile.
My husband and I were joking that we should put a camera when we're not home so that we could see what's going on.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*The camera is actually quite a good idea.
My husband bought a small camera that can be monitored from computer or phone which I can use to see my birds when I'm away.*


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

Hi again, little update: i resolved the mystery regarding cuts on budgies legs. One day I found two of them fighting on the floor! And these two are male and usually sing to each other and kiss eachother so I was really surprised! I think the reason is one of the hens is in "heat" so they're fighting over her.
Anyway, I had no choice but to separate them. I had to catch them first which I've never done before so I think I really scared them. I left two hens together in a huge cage and put each male seperately into two smaller cages (thank god i have all those cages). I put them all close but not too close so they could fight again.
They are calmer but seem sad. They've been living together for the last 4 years, ever since they were babies so I think it's a huge shock for them. One of the males is really down and doesn't want to eat. I'm really sad about this situation and I would like to put them back together but I'm scared of another fight. 
I considered pairing them but I don't want to put males with females until their mating season is done. Could i put the two males together alone? How long should i leave them all separated?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I would definitely advise against housing the two males together since they have already fought to the point of injuring one another.

Do you allow your budgies to have out-of-cage time? If so, then you can give the males very closely supervised out-of-cage time together for a period of a few weeks to see how they interact. You will need to be monitoring them the entire time they are together.

If the supervised out of cage time works out, then you might consider putting the males in the same cage together for short periods - again, only when you are there to monitor their behavior.
You can work up to longer periods of time if there is no fighting, but if either of them shows extreme aggressiveness, they should be housed separately on a permanent basis.*


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

Usually they were out of the cage for most of the day, all 4 of them but since I separated them I haven't let them out yet. To be honest, I think I would have a really hard time in separating them again. They definitely wouldn't willingly go in these new cages.
Apart from that, they aren't usually aggressive birds - most of the time they kiss and feed each other, which I belive would happen if I let them play together. They aren't aggressive nor bite, they didn't even bite me when I caught them. However, as they did fought to the point of hurting one another I'm afraid it'll happen again. I think it's because of the female, they never fought before she was in mating.
They don't seem to notice other female as much though.


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

So, as some of you know I have 4 (2 male, 2 female) budgies. They were living together for years and were best friends. 
Then all of a sudden boys started fighting as one of the females went into breeding. One day I barely managed to separate them, they were on the floor fighting. 
So I separated them in 3 cages - left two females together. After some time, I moved boys together and monitored them. They were kissing, singing and generally best friends again. Females were in the other room. 

I consulted my vet and he told me it's hormonal and that I could move them back together after this phase passes. After a month and a half they seemed really calm so I started bringing them in the same room but not letting them out. Everything was fine so after couple of days/weeks I would open one cage and let them fly to other two (But not releasing others). This was also fine. They would just sit on their cage and sing. After a week we let all of them out together and they were great, playing, chirping... And female seemed to lost her brown cere so we figured they are ready to be back together.

Everything was great for 10 days until yesterday when I found the boys again fighting on the floor over female. She started going into breeding mode AGAIN!! So I separated them immediately. One of the boy's leg was bleeding, awful.

Now I'm not planning on bringing them together again, I was really stressed after yesterday and feeling guilty I brought them together. 
Currently I managed to separate them into two cages by sex because I'm afraid I'll have to deal with chicks if I put them by pairs. My boys are again kissing today but I'm still worried is this the best scenario - put them together after a fight like that.

Also, as I'm having a baby soon I won't be able to keep them in two rooms anymore so I decided to move two of them to my mom's. I'm really sad to move them but I don't see any other option. I don't have other rooms and if they stay in the same room, I can't let them out of the cage. 

I'm open to any suggestions and comments on am I doing the right thing because it breaks my heart to separate them like this.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You've had two incidents of fighting and have been very fortunate none of the birds were severely injured or killed.
How is the leg of the male that was hurt doing at this point in time?

The bottom line is this -- if you continue to try to put the males and females together, one of the males is going to kill one or more of your other budgies.

Housing the budgies by gender is only going to work as long as you keep the two males completely away from the area where the two females are housed. 
If you are unable to keep all four budgies, then moving two of them (which are you moving - males or females?) to your mother's home is definitely for the best.

The males may do fine together as long as they are not around the females but should still need to be closely monitored for a period of time to ensure that one doesn't constant bully the other.
Chances are that once they are completely removed from the presence of the female they will be OK together. However, if either of them shows extreme aggressiveness, then the males should be housed individually on a permanent basis.

The purpose of this forum is to promote the best practices in care for the optimum health and well-being of budgies. *


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

Thank you!
I agree with you, I'm not planning on moving them together again.
His leg is fine now, he is jumping around like nothing happened. I cleaned his wound yesterday. I'm sitting near them whole day today and they are kissing and singing. 
Actually, both of them tend to be dominant so I don't think one will bully another but if they do I have one additional cage empty.

Females are also fine but they are calling them like crazy!

I also think the best thing now is to move two of them to my mom's. She also had birds so she know how to take care of them. I was thinking on moving females there as one of the females is originally hers and we only took her so she wouldn't be alone.

I was also considering on keep them in mixed sex pairs and then move one pair to my mom's. What do you think is better?
The problem is - we really don't want chicks!

Do you think if I'll ever be able to put them together again? When we go to vacation in summer they were usually all together at my mom's for babysitting. Will that be even a possibility now?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I would not recommend keeping mixed gender pairs under the circumstances you've outlined.

I truly believe your best option is to move the two female budgies to your Mom's house on a permanent basis.

The four budgies should never be housed together again.

If you take your males to your Mom's house when you go on vacation in the summer then their cage should be kept in a totally different room in the house away from the females.
Music can be played in each room to help keep them from flock calling to one another at that time.*


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## JasnaM (Jan 22, 2016)

Yesterday I moved two of them to my mom's. They looked fine even though they were still calling each other. Today all four of them seem really depressed, just standing still (they were always REALLY active), they don't want to come to my hand and generally look sad.
It really breaks my heart but I don't know what to do to make them feel better. I've been playing music to break the silence but they really seem down.
Last time I separated them they were fine because they could hear other two from other room but now like they know they are far. One of them even vomited (he tends to do that when stressed).


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Did you separate the budgies by gender as advised? 
Which did you move to your Mom's house - the males or the females?

Keep in mind that all four budgies will have an "adjustment" period which may last a couple of weeks as they get used to their new reality.

Play music for the budgies when you (or your Mom, for the ones at her home) are not around to help them feel less stressed.

It will take some time but they will adjust.

Best wishes*


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