# Please advice - Nike's symptoms



## shrutz23 (May 10, 2012)

Symptoms nike had earlier (1-2 weeks):

Vibrated her wings
Not too active
Problem with coordination, like it would appear dazed
Poop was normal, eating habits were normal

Seeing the symptoms, I took her to a vet (He isn't certified, but has dealt with several birds. Works at a bird charity hospital.
I don't have any avian vets nearby)

He gave two drops of de worming medicine to both my budgies (I don't know the name). And prescribed antibiotics & vitamins. 

Symptoms (now, after visiting vet & having de worming meds)

She stayed fluffed up and didn't eat since 2 days, just had bit of water.
Yesterday onwards, she started eating & drank excessive water.
Her appetite is more than normal today, but didn't drink as much water.
Her poop is liquidy..too much urates

She is currently having antibiotics which am mixing in water and giving her. Also having vitamin supplements.

I just want to know..does deworming meds, or antibiotics cause loose motion? She is excessively eating, otherwise she is sleeping with head tucked in. Lethargic. 

Please help me understand what could this mean?

Thanks.


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

Your bird does sound ill. What were the antibiotics prescribed for ? Did this vet do any stains, smears, or blood work ? How about weight, was your bird weighed and found to be at normal weight ? 

For now ensure that your bird is kept warm. Add some electrolytes to the drinking water, or soak millet in electrolytes and feed. Maybe some of our members can advise, my own birds have been on antibiotics and never showed those symptom's, and I have no experience with worming medication. What caused vet to administer the worming med ?


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## shrutz23 (May 10, 2012)

Jonah said:


> Your bird does sound ill. What were the antibiotics prescribed for ? Did this vet do any stains, smears, or blood work ? How about weight, was your bird weighed and found to be at normal weight ?
> 
> For now ensure that your bird is kept warm. Add some electrolytes to the drinking water, or soak millet in electrolytes and feed. Maybe some of our members can advise, my own birds have been on antibiotics and never showed those symptom's, and I have no experience with worming medication. What caused vet to administer the worming med ?


Like I mentioned, he isn't a proper vet. In my area it was the only best option I had. So no stains or any sort of tests were done. Antibiotics were prescribed as she seemed ill. My bird was always small built & underweight. He suggested worming meds as my birds were never de wormed before .


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

I do understand your predicament. I would search for someone who can at least do swab's and stains and look at them under the scope. Maybe an exotic pet vet, or another regular vet that has had bird experience too. The problem with using broad spectrum anti b's without a diagnosis is that they harm the good bacteria in your bird's body too, and may be doing harm while not addressing the problem.

I would get a probiotic and start trying to restore good bacterial health in your bird. I use primal defense powder which is made for humans but many bird folk's have used it with good results. Organic Apple Cider Vinegar with the "mother" in it is very beneficial and should be used on a regular basis to help promote good gut health... http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/246897-apple-cider-vinegar.html?highlight=apple+cider+vinegar

I would think that the worming medication would be a non factor after this long but I am no expert, and as I said, have no experience with this. I have reported your thread to hopefully get some input from some of the most experienced staff folk's here. What kind of diet do your bird's eat ?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Your budgie may well have an AGY (Avian Gastric Yeast) infection.

The bird will often exhibit symptoms of excessive hunger but because the digestive system isn't working properly, the bird is actually starving to death. The following links contain information regarding the disease and possible treatments that may help.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/169193-macrorhabdus-budgerigars.html

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/314538-megabacteria-budgerigars.html

It would be best for you to find an Avian Vet in your area or at least find an Exotic Vet that is used to dealing with birds.

Your profile shows you to be in the US in New York - is that not correct? 
I know there are both Avian Vets and Exotic Vets in New York. 
Yes, you may have to drive an hour or more to get to one but that is what one does when necessary.

If you are not in the US in New York then you need to update your profile so it is accurate.
It is very difficult for staff and members to offer advice and suggestions when we don't have the necessary information.

Locate an Avian Vet

Association of Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/index.php

International Vets Register
Vets

Bird Vets Near You
Veterinarians.com

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma.
When you rely on unskilled individuals, you delay effective treatment. This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recover than it would have if you
seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.

A fecal gram stain needs to be done as soon as possible and an Avian Vet is your best option with an Exotic Vet being the next best.

If finding either is impossible where you are, you will need to print out all the information you can about AGY and work in conjunction with your regular vet to try to get an accurate diagnosis of your budgie's illness.*


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## Jo Ann (Sep 3, 2011)

*Please*

You have received outstanding information from Deb, and Randy. The weakness can be from lack of nutrition and proper vitamins and minerals.
If your bird is on a seed only diet it is missing critical nutrition which in turn lowers the immune system 's ability to ward of infections. It is critical to ID whether you are dealing with bacterial or fungal organisms or possibly both in tandem. Fecal and crop swab should be asked for at a minimum. you may also try antibiotic by beak to be sure bird is getting enough. The bird is desperately seeking nutrition. Be sure to get a ceramic heat only lamp or similar and aim on an area of birds cage that does not warm food and water and provide an area the bird can step away when it gets too hot. Immediately apply the excellent advice given above and find an exotic/avian vet in your area and make an apt ASAP. Your bird is starving. as soon as bird can absorb nutrition the liquid should become more solid. Follow above instructions. Blessings, JO Ann


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## shrutz23 (May 10, 2012)

Jonah said:


> I do understand your predicament. I would search for someone who can at least do swab's and stains and look at them under the scope. Maybe an exotic pet vet, or another regular vet that has had bird experience too. The problem with using broad spectrum anti b's without a diagnosis is that they harm the good bacteria in your bird's body too, and may be doing harm while not addressing the problem.
> 
> I would get a probiotic and start trying to restore good bacterial health in your bird. I use primal defense powder which is made for humans but many bird folk's have used it with good results. Organic Apple Cider Vinegar with the "mother" in it is very beneficial and should be used on a regular basis to help promote good gut health... http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/246897-apple-cider-vinegar.html?highlight=apple+cider+vinegar
> 
> I would think that the worming medication would be a non factor after this long but I am no expert, and as I said, have no experience with this. I have reported your thread to hopefully get some input from some of the most experienced staff folk's here. What kind of diet do your bird's eat ?


Thanks for the suggestions. My birds eat pellets & seeds, and also fresh carrots & peas and cucumber. They love veggies.



FaeryBee said:


> *Your budgie may well have an AGY (Avian Gastric Yeast) infection.
> 
> The bird will often exhibit symptoms of excessive hunger but because the digestive system isn't working properly, the bird is actually starving to death. The following links contain information regarding the disease and possible treatments that may help.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice. I was staying in New York earlier to pursue my higher education. Currently, I have returned to my own country & it's very difficult to find an avian vet here.

My bird is exhibiting these symptoms of excess hunger only after it had antibbiotics & de worming meds. Hence I was wondering if it has anything to do with the meds. Prior to this she was eating normally & her poop was normal too.

As of now, Nike has improved. She is no longer fluffed up, she is more active and is eating as well. So I think the antibiotic is working.

I am trying to locate a proper vet in the meanwhile, one who can at least perform swabs.



Jo Ann said:


> You have received outstanding information from Deb, and Randy. The weakness can be from lack of nutrition and proper vitamins and minerals.
> If your bird is on a seed only diet it is missing critical nutrition which in turn lowers the immune system 's ability to ward of infections. It is critical to ID whether you are dealing with bacterial or fungal organisms or possibly both in tandem. Fecal and crop swab should be asked for at a minimum. you may also try antibiotic by beak to be sure bird is getting enough. The bird is desperately seeking nutrition. Be sure to get a ceramic heat only lamp or similar and aim on an area of birds cage that does warm food and water and provide an area the bird can step away when it gets too hot. Immediately apply the excellent advice given above and find an exotic/avian vet in your area and make an apt ASAP. Your bird is starving. as soon as bird can absorb nutrition the liquid should become more solid. Follow above instructions. Blessings, JO Ann


I think their diet is good as they eat veggies and pellet diet. However. Yes I'm on the lookout for an avian vet. Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions.


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