# Could use some tips. The vet didn't offer many.



## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

*What disease is this? How bad?*

My budgie is quite normal during day. He chirps and moves around. He eats and drinks. During day his poop seems to be normal.

But during night it's liquid and yellowish. Sometimes he wakes to come down and drink water before heading back to sleep. When morning comes his poop looks like a messy sight. But afterwards during the rest of the day his poop looks completely normal. This has been going on for a week now. Does anyone know what is happening?

My bird Blue is almost 6 years old. He chirps the whole day but has become grumpier with age. He has a female mate named Violet and she seems to be healthy.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*We are not qualified Avian Vets nor can we diagnose your budgie's issues. The best anyone on this forum could do is speculate with can often do more harm than good.

It is very important you take your budgie to an Avian Vet for a proper diagnosis and treatment plan.

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma. 
This is important as "regular" vets will often overlook symptoms that are quickly obvious to an Avian Vet.
When you rely on anyone who has not had training in Avian diagnosis and care, you may be delaying effective treatment. 
This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recovery than it would have if you seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.

Distinction between an Avian Vet and a Vet that "Will See Birds"

Having your budgie examined by an Avian Vet allows you to develop a good relationship with the vet in case your bird needs care for an injury or illness in the future. Additionally, it is always helpful for the vet to have a baseline for your bird to refer to should it need future treatment.

http://talkbudgies.com/general-budgie-talk/295033-prepared-veterinary-care-expense.html

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-bud...-avian-vet-finder-administering-medicine.html

I wish your budgie all the best for a full and speedy recovery. Please be sure to update us regarding his condition after you've had him in to his Avian Vet appointment.

Best wishes!*


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

I am going to take him to vet asap. I just want to know if anyone else has seen something like this before and how big of an emergency it is?

Blue has also been tapping his foot a lot. This has happened twice now.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Once you notice a budgie is ill, then it needs to be seen by a Avian Vet as soon as possible as budgies hide the symptoms of illness.

No one can tell how how critical an emergency your situation is, but I advise you not to delay in getting him treatment.

How long has this issues been going on now?*


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

It's been going on for a week but he got better for a few days when his poop suddenly got bad again last night.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Then I'd advise you to get an appointment right away. 
Don't assume because things seem to get better that the problem has resolved itself.*


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

I will but it's midnight right now and I have to wait until morning.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

As FaeryBee has said it is best to take your bird to the vet asap. Take along a sample of the droppings or just take the entire paper at the bottom of the cage so the vet can see what you are seeing, both the normal and watery droppings.
Whatever treatment is needed the sooner it starts the better it is for the bird.


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

Just came back from the vet and my budgie has been declared completely healthy. The vest said it might be possible he could have liver problems and she gave me tips on how to maintain a healthy liver but she also if he does end up developing something serious down the road because of the liver there isn't much that can be done.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Actually, there's a lot that can be done to counter liver disease!

A healthy diet with varied components which include daily seed, pellets, and vegetables is one important step, and supplementing the diet with things like knotgrass and milk thistle will help to keep the liver healthy as well. Milk thistle is a natural liver detoxifier and is great to use in budgies. Here's a few links with more information:

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-diet-nutrition/315033-healthy-diet-your-budgie.html

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/290266-nutritional-diseases.html


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*StarlingWings is completely correct.

Additionally, ensuring your budgie has a healthy diet goes a very long way in preventing liver problems!

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-diet-nutrition/315033-healthy-diet-your-budgie.html*


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## iHeartPieds (Jan 9, 2017)

Just wondering, did you take your bird to an avian vet or an all creatures vet?


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

*Could use some diet tips.*

I got back from the vet yesterday and even though my budgie was declared generally healthy, the vet suspects he might have some issues with his liver. She suggested milk thistle and I have ordered the extract, and will hopefully get it within a week.

In the meanwhile I need to change my budgie's diet. My budgie loves eating egg but now that he may have liver problems maybe it's not such a good idea to give him that?

What fruits and veggies should he eat? Blue really loves apples and strawberries, he isn't very fond of veggies but if it's important he eats them then I'll try harder to make him eat them.

Any suggestions would be to a great help. Thanks in advance.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Hopefully, you've taken the time to read all of the Budgie Articles and Stickies throughout the forum.
They offer a wealth of information and will help you ensure you give your budgie the best possible care.

Begin reading the information on what is considered to be a healthy diet for budgies. I provided that link in your other thread, here it is again:

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-diet-nutrition/315033-healthy-diet-your-budgie.html

As you will see, fruit is high in sugar content and should only be offered sparingly as a treat.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/290266-nutritional-diseases.html

As StarlingWings indicated in your other thread,
Milk Thistle and Dandelion Root are good supplements for birds with liver issues.
I would recommend using Knotgrass as well.

Apple Cider Vinegar with the mother can be used two - three times weekly in your budgies' water.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-holistic-natural-remedies/103936-apple-cider-vinegar.html

Take the time to do research throughout the forum and ask more questions of your Avian Vet.
It's important you take a pro-active role in ensuring your budgie's health is the best possible.

Edit: I have now merged your two threads.

*


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

iHeartPieds said:


> Just wondering, did you take your bird to an avian vet or an all creatures vet?


She was an avian vet


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

FaeryBee said:


> *Hopefully, you've taken the time to read all of the Budgie Articles and Stickies throughout the forum.
> They offer a wealth of information and will help you ensure you give your budgie the best possible care.
> 
> Begin reading the information on what is considered to be a healthy diet for budgies. I provided that link in your other thread, here it is again:
> ...


Okay, thank you!


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

What about egg though? Blue really wants it and I feel so mean saying no


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## Therm (Aug 2, 2015)

Faerybee has already given you links to a healthy budgie diet. If you look at them they will tell you about egg in a healthy budgies diet. 
The forum is a resource and you, as a responsible budgie owner, should be researching what you can, using the forum to guide you. If someone posts links, you need to actually read them.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-diet-nutrition/315033-healthy-diet-your-budgie.html


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

I did read it but it didn't say if egg was alright if the budgie has liver problems. My mom is saying people who have liver issues shouldn't consume eggs, that's why I'm confused.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Too much protein in your budgies' diet can exacerbate any problems with its liver. Eggs are high in protein.

You should talk directly to your Avian Vet to see if s/he recommends giving any egg food or eliminating it totally at this time.

Best wishes!*


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

*Update!*

Hey! Just thought I would give an update.

My budgie is on Milk Thistle now, it's been three days. I also gave him some ACV in his water a few days ago. Blue has stopped eating eggs, my vet never answered but I decided to cut out myself since he needs a diet change. I also started feeding him tomatoes which is supposed to help against liver problems. He still eats seeds but I have bought pellets and I'm trying to make him switch over. So far no luck.

I have noticed his droppings have gotten much better. The yellow liquid is almost gone and his poop looks more and more normal like it used to be.

He still has that twitcy foot that comes and goes. I don't know what causes this, the vet couldn't answer either. But I'm hoping a diet change will also help against this toe tapping.

Anyway, thank you for help! I hope Blue continues to improve.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm so glad Blue is doing better and I hope he continues to improve! :thumbup:


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm glad to hear you've noticed some improvements.

It will take time to get Blue used to the taste of pellets.

When I introduced pellets to my budgie, my Avian Vet recommended using Harrison's High Potency Mash and sprinkling it on the budgie's seed mix every day. This way, when the budgie hulls the seed it tastes the pellet mash and ingests bits of it as well. This helps the budgie identify the taste as a food source.

Many members seem to find the easiest pellets to use for introducing pellets to their budgies to be the CANARY sized Zupreem fruity pellets. Most budgies like the taste and the "Canary" sized pellets are tiny enough for them to easily eat them. Once they've become accustomed to the Fruity Pellets, introducing the smallest "natural" pellets is then an easy step.

Other than when I was using the Harrison's mash, I've never mixed my birds' pellets and seed together. My birds have three separate dishes each with a different brand/flavor of pellets available to them 24/7. Their seed is rationed to approximately 2 teaspoons of seed per budgie each day. I give them seed first thing in the morning right after putting clean newspapers on the bottom grate of the cages. I sprinkle their morning ration on the paper so they can forage for the seeds. I then do the same thing in the evenings (after replacing the soiled newspaper with clean) and again allow them to forage for their seed.

All of my birds have the option to eat the available pellets whenever they like throughout the day and they all enjoy them!*


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

Blue is doing much better now, his dropping have become normal and he stopped with the foot topping. I get him to eat pellets every day but it's still not his favorites when compared to seeds. I don't mix them but have them in two separate bowls. I practically have to tell Blue and Violet to eat pellets and while they do listen to me, I wish they could do it on their own.

Blue also went through a molting period with a lot annoying pin feathers all over his head. He is better now but there something strange about his beak. I have been feeding him spinach a lot and at first I thought it was just discoloring but after giving Blue a shower, his beak has become weirder.

Here is a picture


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I can't see the picture but I can tell you that when a bird has liver issues it is not uncommon for bruises to appear on the beak and nails, these will look like darkened areas.


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

I updated the picture, hopefully it can be seen now.

Yes, it's exactly how you describe it! Will these darkened areas go away? He is doing better now, he is still on milk thistle so I don't understand why he is getting the bruises now that he is improving.


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## Therm (Aug 2, 2015)

Spinach should be fed sparringly. Try giving him something like romaine lettuce instead.



> Only limited amounts of spinach, chard, or beet greens should be fed to your bird (no more than leaf per week). These greens contain oxalic acid, which bind to calcium in the digestive system and can cause deficiencies.


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## Bluebirdy (May 17, 2013)

Oh I didn't know that! Thank you for informing me. I have been feeding him a lot of spinach, I guess we should take a break for a while then.

Are there any veggies or fruits they can eat large amounts of?


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The bruises will clear up if the underlying liver issues are resolved, it can take some time. As Therm has said you can try giving your bird the dark leaves of romaine lettuce instead of spinach. Don't give too much fruit it's too high in sugar.


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