# I think Ollie has bumblefoot



## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Hey guys,

I haven't trimmed the birds nails in a while now- perhaps 5 months. I was trimming Ollie's nails today and was inspecting his feet. This was the first time he's ever bit me, and it was actually hard. I think it's because he wanted to get back to Daisy. In the past when I trimmed his nails, he was an only budgie. Unfortunately I noticed he has some sort of bump of a lesion on his foot. I took a photo. From reading this article, I'm guessing the "grade" or progression of it is up to stage 3 or 4.

I feel so bad for him, I obviously didn't have enough varied perches in the cage. I thought it'd be okay to have one natural wood perch, their calcium perch, one natural sisal rope perch, their natural wood swing, and the dowel perches at the bottom of the cage. I thought this was okay since they get out of cage time for hours every single day, flying, and on their natural wood play gym.

Here's the photo. Also, I normally hold him differently, with his head between my index and middle finger and the rest of my hand holding him- but he was bitey and was trying to get a quick snap of this pic. On a side note, I'm concerned now that I'm taking like 5 steps back with the budgies trust because of restricting them in my hands to inspect them and trim their nails. But, I'm glad even if I have because now I know Ollie has this and it can get the care he needs. I will be calling the vet tomorrow morning, though I am worried about how much treatment will cost.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Ahh poor Ollie :hug:

Glad to hear that you're making a vet appt Bee.

Don't feel too guilty about this, perches are a major cause of bumblefoot but not the only reason and some birds are just more prone to certain conditions than others.
Here's a link to an article that might be worth reading before your vet appointment:
Symptoms & Treatment of Bumblefoot in Parrots - Hari


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## Therm (Aug 2, 2015)

Bee, I'm not sure if you have a company like this where you're from, but when I got my big order of bits from the Natural Bird Company, one of the things I wanted to do was replace all my old perches with natural wood ones from here. I already had natural wood and java perches. I think java perches are really good as they have a lot more variety in perch size.

Flat perches for healthy birds and parrots with special needs

As well as regular perches, I got the budgies some flat perches and the raft swing so that besides from perching, the birds have the chance to rest their feet. It might be worth looking into if you can find some other varieties to help out. 
And as JRS said, don't feel too bad about it. You know the problem now and you're taking steps to fix it.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

JRS said:


> Ahh poor Ollie :hug:
> 
> Glad to hear that you're making a vet appt Bee.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that link JRS, I found that interesting to read- it's actually the same one I linked in my post which made me realise he does have it. Will try not to feel too guilty. Poor little Ollie. I checked Daisy when I trimmed her nails and she's clear.



Therm said:


> Bee, I'm not sure if you have a company like this where you're from, but when I got my big order of bits from the Natural Bird Company, one of the things I wanted to do was replace all my old perches with natural wood ones from here. I already had natural wood and java perches. I think java perches are really good as they have a lot more variety in perch size.
> Flat perches for healthy birds and parrots with special needs
> As well as regular perches, I got the budgies some flat perches and the raft swing so that besides from perching, the birds have the chance to rest their feet. It might be worth looking into if you can find some other varieties to help out.
> And as JRS said, don't feel too bad about it. You know the problem now and you're taking steps to fix it.


Thanks Emma, I haven't quite found an amazing site like that yet over here- mostly sites that sell a bunch of animal supplies not one dedicated to perches for birds. It looks great. They don't have any flat perches so I will definitely make sure to include those in my next shop for them. Thanks, and can't help but feel responsible ofcourse. But it's okay.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

MidnightIris said:


> Thanks for that link JRS, I found that interesting to read- it's actually the same one I linked in my post which made me realise he does have it.....


:001_rolleyes: doh! I must have speed-read your post, I completely bypassed that bit! :hammer:

If you haven't managed to find a platform perch (or afford one after vet bills :scare by the time your new cage arrives... as a temporary measure you could perhaps cut pieces of cardboard from the box it arrives in, or even use newspaper to fit on top of that removable wire platform in the new cage to create a flat platform. Just remember that platforms tend to get soiled faster than regular perches, so with an open wound you'd obviously need to ensure it was cleaned/replaced more frequently than usual.
Hope Ollie's foot heals up soon.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Bee,

I'm sorry to hear (and see) that little Ollie has Bumblefoot. 

I'm glad you're taking him to the vet and will be treating the condition promptly. :hug:

Wishing your little fellow a full and speedy recovery!*


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks Deborah :hug:

I called the vet today and spoke to a different vet that I saw previously when Ollie was there last, and I was happy with how informative she was- as the previous vet who saw Ollie wasn't very informative. The plan is to increase Ollie's vitamin A intake with dark green veggies like spinach, wrap their perches up with adhesive bandage to add some padding (I anticipated this and ordered it last night, should come in a few days), and start Ollie on Triple C antibiotic at the dose he was previously on. I am to monitor him for the next 1-2 weeks to make sure his lesion isn't getting any worse.

Hopefully it improves- but if not- I'll be taking him to the vet to be weighed and to possibly have his lesion cultured to determine the best medicine for him. I mentioned to her that I read that Cephalexine is often used to treat bumblefoot and asked if that is similar to Triple C and she said they don't like to use Cephalexine in the beginning with mild cases of bumblefoot (I described to her how his foot looks and guessed it's between grades 3-5) because it's very strong and a human drug so she would like to start him on Triple C first and have him monitored. So I've just started to give it to them in their water with a little freshly squeezed orange juice in there. When I get the new cage, I will separate Ollie and Daisy because the vet says that'll be better to not give Daisy antibiotics she doesn't need.

Hopefully my boy gets better- but I have a feeling I'll have to take him back to get it cultured, but I'm going to stay positive.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm glad that you had a good experience with the vet! I truly hope that your boy starts feeling better very soon :fingerx: 

Keep us posted!


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

JRS said:


> :001_rolleyes: doh! I must have speed-read your post, I completely bypassed that bit! :hammer:
> If you haven't managed to find a platform perch (or afford one after vet bills :scare by the time your new cage arrives... as a temporary measure you could perhaps cut pieces of cardboard from the box it arrives in, or even use newspaper to fit on top of that removable wire platform in the new cage to create a flat platform. Just remember that platforms tend to get soiled faster than regular perches, so with an open wound you'd obviously need to ensure it was cleaned/replaced more frequently than usual.
> Hope Ollie's foot heals up soon.


I ended up reading past this post too! :laughing2: - thank you JRS, that's a great idea. I will do that. I was actually going to keep Ollie in the current cage at first (as he's on antibiotics) and Daisy in the new one- do you think I should keep her in the current one, instead? I also think it'd be easier to take him out of the current one to check his foot regularly- rather than wailing my arm to find him in the big one, lol.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks, Star- I will!


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## Hunterkat (Mar 29, 2017)

Poor Ollie  I hope he gets better soon! I personally would keep Ollie in the current cage- he'll be easier to catch!


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Hey guys I spoke to another vet today (I was only calling to know ahead of time to know much a culture would cost if it came to that- to be prepared) while I never got to know how much the culture would cost, she (I never got the vet's name) said if this round of antibiotics doesn't work, i'll have to bring Ollie to the vet and he would probably be started on antibiotic injections then if that doesn't work get a culture. :upset: I really don't want Ollie to have injections if it's not absolutely necessary... i'll traumatize him :crying2:. I know they are vets but I'm Ollie's parront & advocate and also the vet I spoke to the other day (who I liked) didn't say anything about injections...so I'll definitely just wait to see how Ollie goes then ask to get an appointment with the vet I spoke to the other day. 

Edit: Because I won't be able to afford to buy more perches for a while I want to re-purpose Ollie & Daisy's play gym to use as natural wood perches. I just need some help with how to do this? I know I need stainless steel washers, wing nuts and the rod part- but i'm not sure what rod and also I don't have a drill. Can someone give me some ideas on how I can make these into perches for their homes?


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Hi Bee

I think you're wise to keep with your initial vet.

TBH, with the perches, it would probably be cheaper to buy ready made ones than buy the fixings and a drill, but you could send a pm to Trum, the poster in this thread, to ask how he did it:
http://talkbudgies.com/general-budg...ay-finding-appropriate-tree-make-perches.html

What I'd do, is just make a slot in the ends of the longer branches, and fix them to the cage like these:
Great Deals on Canary Cages only at zooplus!: Bird Cage Finca pequeno (Look at the second image)

If they're too short to span the width of the cage, you could fix them across a corner.

Another possibility (& I'm not sure how stable you could make this, you'd have to have a try & see), is to perhaps try to attach the natural branches on top of your current dowels with e.g. cable ties. 
Maybe a combination of a slot at the cage end of the branch, and a cable tie holding the 2 perches together at the other end would work best?

You might also find this thread interesting:
http://talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/380946-carving-dowels.html


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## Hunterkat (Mar 29, 2017)

This video does a good job showing how to make natural wood perches


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

JRS said:


> Hi Bee
> 
> I think you're wise to keep with your initial vet.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much Julie! I don't think I'll add the natural perches on top of the dowel ones, but I did place a few of the natural ones between the bars like you suggested. Only thing is, they're in corners only, now. I am also going to carve the dowels a bit to give them shape then sand them down by hand (thank you so much for the links!) Also the birds got their new cage so I will post that on my cage thread okay . 



Hunterkat said:


> This video does a good job showing how to make natural wood perches


Thanks so much for this Katherine, very cool. I don't have a drill punch though, but I'll see what I can do. Thanks again


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## Hunterkat (Mar 29, 2017)

Thanks so much for this Katherine, very cool. I don't have a drill punch though, but I'll see what I can do. Thanks again [/QUOTE]
You really just need something to make a small hole so the screw can catch in the wood


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

I tried to with one of my etching tools but it didn't work, i'll have to get back to it another time- definitely want to do it.  thanks again Katherine.









I laid cardboard down with newspaper and a tea towel so Ollie can hopefully rest his feet a bit.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Well that looks a nice comfortable recovery cage for Ollie 

Just be careful that he doesn't chew on the tea towel. It might be easier to put the tea towel under the newspaper; it would still give that bit of extra bounce but it would be out of sight for nibbling... and easier on the laundry .


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Lol I'm silly- smart- done- will just keep an eye on him so he doesn't nibble on the newspaper, now. Thanks


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## ReneBC (Mar 26, 2016)

You could also use a couple of them for Swings if you have some safe string and beads to cover the string, or buy a couple of cheap swings and change the dowel on them to these natural wood ones


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

That's a great idea Rene, thank you 

I took a look at Ollie's foot today and the little bump that looked like it was filled with liquid is gone. 
At first look I thought it had ulcerated- but looking closer it looks like a little scab.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

MidnightIris said:


> That's a great idea Rene, thank you


That IS a great idea, especially as you already have suitable holes in some of the branches. I actually just did this two days ago with a (dubiously unsafe) old swinging perch I had. I bought some hard plastic beads from the party favours section in a local supermarket, very cheaply. 
Depending on what bits & pieces you have left, you might even be able to construct a little triangular perch swing, similar to this:
Midi Pyramid Swing, ideal for mini and small birds to share

Ollie's foot is looking much better, hopefully he'll be back to normal before you know it.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

I would love to make a swing like that  would love to see the one you made.

I'm so glad, it must be the antibiotics since he doesn't seem to be "resting" at all and the adhesive bandages haven't arrived in the mail yet. I ended up having another look at his foot after I took that photo to make sure it looked like a scab and not tiny ulcer. I also saw him eating seed earlier by himself which is good. hopefully he's all better soon!!  :fingerx:

*Edit:* I was reading up again and it could be a scab like I thought, or it could be necrotic tissue- I'm not sure and I'm quietly worried. I will call up on Monday and try to speak to the vet I initially spoke with about Ollie's bumblefoot, and ask her how his foot would be looking if he were to be getting better, and describe to her how it's looking.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*The foot looks MUCH better, Bee.
If it were necrotic tissue, it would be black. 
What I see in the picture looks like normal scabbing.

You can send a picture via email to your vet after talking to her on Monday to get her opinion.*


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

This was what I originally bought (from a local store):
https://www.parrotessentials.co.uk/liana-wavy-jungle-vine-wood-perch-for-parrots-small/

..but then I wasn't happy with the size of the metal loops at the ends (had visions of stuck heads).:scare:

This is the swing I made:


I reused the links and had spare loops from old toys (I always keep any reusable parts), but it could just as easily have been tied it onto the roof bars. 
I'm much happier with it now, though the boys have still to be courageous enough to try it out 

I think Deborah's suggestion to take photos and email them is a great idea.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Deborah: I am so happy to hear you say that! I feel a bit relieved. I was on google looking at all the horrible images of bumblefoot and thought it looked similar to necrotic tissue. Still on 100% at ease, but I will be once my boy is better. I will email them!

JRS: that swing looks great and the little green flowered beads are very pretty. The wood looks like a great shape to exercise the birdies feet!


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

I took another thorough look at Olle's right foot this morning and I'm confident to say it's a little scab and i'm so happy! _But_ I did notice that his left foot has the beginning stages of bumblefoot (grade 1-2). Throughout some of his foot the padding is gone, extremely smooth, and slightly red. I decided to take all of his perches out from his cage, apart from his calcium perch and swing, and I am switching his sisal rope perch to the new cotton rope perch so it's softer on his feet. Had to take the newspaper out as he was eating at it again.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Hey Bee

Was he actually eating the newspaper or just shredding it? He may well be just a bit bored in there without Daisy. Are there any toys that you could put in there?

With regards to the left foot, is this new or do you think that you hadn't perhaps noticed it before, due to the right foot looking bad and grabbing your attention?
I think it would be wise for you to photograph each foot daily, in the same light and from the same angle so that you have a good reference to judge progress.

Remember that the article stated that there were other causes of bumblefoot besides the items they're standing on:

'Nutritional causes include diets low in vitamin A, biotin, calcium, D3, or some other nutritional deficiency, or diets high in fat'. I can see that he has a bowl of veggies in there, perhaps you can also add whole spinach leaves & pieces of carrot/pepper pegged to the cage beside the areas where he prefers to perch. Consider Ca/D3 supplements if you haven't already.

Check the remaining perches/swings in both cages and the perching edges of food dishes for any sharp areas that could potentially scratch the feet; sand/file them down or remove the flaking bark if needed.

How are Daisy's feet? She's been living in the same environment as Ollie - Maybe he's just more susceptible/ maybe she's a better eater.

Hope your vetwrap arrives soon and that you can get more help from the vets on Monday.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*JRS has offered excellent suggestions! :thumbup:

The fact that the right foot is already improving is a very good sign.
I agree with JRS that you simply may not have noticed the problem on the left foot previously.*


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Hi Julia, I think he was shredding it but when I took the newspaper out I didn't see "loose" bits. 

I'm pretty sure the condition of his left foot is new because I've been looking at both his feet specifically the padding and looking out for redness which I didn't see the other day.

They'd definitely have vitamin D3 deficiency as they don't get sun now, I don't take them outside now in the winter, it's just way too cold. I bought Soluvite D but have not started giving it to them yet, and I know I can't mix Soluvite D with Triple C so would only be able to start that after the round of Triple C.

Those are nutriblend pellets in the cage not veggies . I gave them spinach & broccoli today- they love broccoli but they haven't eaten spinach before so I'm not sure they'd even touch it. I have also noticed that Ollie isn't eating his pellets since being split up with Daisy, just eating seed as far as I can tell. Maybe I should start feeding him his pellets mushed in with seed again? Ollie tends to be scared of toys with Daisy being less scared and checking out the toys first, then he follows. I can put back his shredding kabob toy back in to see if he wants to play with it 

I haven't checked Daisy's feet today but when I checked a few days ago it didn't look like there was any redness or bumps. I will check them both again tomorrow morning and start documenting both of their feet with pics. 

Yeah, I have to say now that I see his left foot's padding being smoothed out and becoming red I'm so worried for him.


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Bee, I was happy to read through this post and see how your little guy's foot has improved . God job on catching the other foot before it became bad. You know to take him in if it starts getting worse. With your necessary changes, it should be fine. I know you'll keep an eye on it. You're such a great budgie mom, doing all you can to ensure they have good healthcare and good life quality :thumbsup:.

A platform might also be good during this time for healing, as well as for perch variety for other times. Best wishes for Ollie's continued improvement .


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Thank you so much Julie, that's very sweet of you to say!  I do my best for them. Yes I'd like to get a platform perch for them! Thankyou


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## Birdmanca (Jan 24, 2008)

I can tell there is a problem on one of his feet. As to how to give an exact answer and the cure for it, I would let a vet tell you. I generally can figure about half of a birds health problems and vets always tell me more. They have the training for this issue.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Have noticed today there is some lameness in Ollie's feet as throughout the day I've seen him standing on one foot, alternating which foot he chooses to use. 
These are his pics for today. Looking closely his scab looks bigger with a bit of redness underneath and a slight swelling/irritation to it... on his left foot in the middle you can see it's smooth with some slight redness. On a side note he's a lot better when I'm handling him now (still runs/flies away when I go to grab him) but doesn't bite.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Bee, it's normal for birds to alternate which leg to stand on whilst resting - it's the same as us shifting our weight from one leg to another whilst, say, standing in a queue.

I think it would be best if you could actually visit the vets tomorrow. We can only see what is on the surface, so we're only seeing part of the picture of what is going on. 
_A looooong time ago, I actually worked as a podiatrist/chiropodist. I know that I'm talking humans here not birds but let me take the example of a corn (a little plug of hard skin created as a result of pressure) - with a scalpel, I'd remove that hard plug and try to reduce the pressure on that area... but sometimes, underneath the plug, there would be a small necrotic area, or a collection of pus or a small foreign body etc. _
Your vet could examine the lesion more thoroughly, he/she could decide if X-ray is needed or clean/debride the lesion to assess it more carefully e.g. How deep it was or if there was a splinter in the foot. If they feel that the lesion is infected they may take a culture to find a more specific antibiotic to use. They may suggest some ointment to apply or change to oral antibiotics. I know that vets can be very expensive, but they should inform you of any costs up front (ask), so you can decide whether to proceed. 
I really wish you and Ollie the best of luck.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

I agree that I should be going to the vet soon. I won't be able to go until towards the end of this week but will make an appointment tomorrow. I understand that it's normal for birds to stand on one leg and shift their weight, but I also know Ollie, and noticed today that he was doing that pretty much all day where as he doesn't usually do it that much.

I think it's impressive that you used to work as a podiatrist . I will also be asking the vet for the expenses too (e.g. culture/xray) and if paying most of it but the rest in installments is possible, if necessary.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Poor Ollie, he must be feeling uncomfortable- but that's great to hear about seeing the vet, you're a good budgie mum.  :thumbsup:


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Aw thanks that's very sweet Julia  and I think he is uncomfortable. He doesn't make it easy for himself clinging to the cage bars so often lol (to be near Daisy as she's in the other cage). I tried to see if the platform that came with the new cage fit in his one, but it's a bit too big. I will check out the local pet store this week to see if they have one but I don't think they have platform perches, from memory.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Hi, just an update, I had to go interstate for a funeral and just got back yesterday. Soonest appointment is Tuesday so will be seeing the vet then! Ollie is about the same and hanging in there.


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Hi everyone, I'm sorry for being absent! Have had a lot going on...

But Ollie has been well even though he still has bumblefoot. I was finally able to take Ollie to the vet despite my finances, and he was such a good boy. He even let the vet weigh him and scratch his head! (he's molting so he appreciates head scratches after a handling).

The vet believes Ollie's bumblefoot is a mild case which is good, and has switched him over to different anti-biotics which I have been giving to him through a dropper/syringe, apparently it is sweetened. It's quite funny, because he likes the taste of it!! he was happy to open his mouth and drink it! 

I'm also happy that I'm able to give him the medicine via dropper because Ollie and Daisy can be housed together


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## QuirkyBirdie (Apr 19, 2015)

Hoorah! This is good news! Hope Ollie has a speedy recovery!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Hi Bee, 
Great to hear Ollie is on his way to a full recovery!  Nice to hear he even likes the taste of his medicine. That way you'll have it easy, and he won't be missing a drop!


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## Hunterkat (Mar 29, 2017)

I'm so glad to hear that Ollie is doing well! And I bet he's THRILLED to be back with Daisy!


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## Birdmanca (Jan 24, 2008)

Therm posted some good ideas for you to try. Birds foot has some problems, but not really bad. It can be cured if treated properly.


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## JRS (Sep 3, 2016)

Great news Bee, and glad to hear that Ollie is being the perfect little patient with his medicine!


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## MidnightIris (Sep 14, 2013)

Hi Guys! I'm sorry for my absence- but I'm happy to report that Ollie and Daisy are doing very good, in fact Ollie's bumblefoot has almost completely cleared up, his scab is hard to find it's that small. No lameness in his feet. It's taken an extremely long time for it to clear up, but it's important that if it's not getting worse it's kind of a waiting game with the vet while you do everything you can for them (e.g. cleaning their cage, providing a good diet) varied perches. I'm going to buy a flat perch for them to have. 
Thanks for all of the advice and good wishes for the fluffy babies! 
 Bee


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Hi, Bee --

I'm very glad to hear Ollie and Daisy are doing well and Ollie's bumblefoot has almost completely cleared!

I'm hoping he'll be completely recovered soon.

Best wishes :hug:*


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