# New Budgie Yellow Urates - Need 2nd opinion



## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

So our newest budgie Ophelia has been with us only since Wed.

She does not look sick she had an exam on Thursday which she checked out fine no parasites no bacteria nothing and they said she looks very healthy . She is eating and alert but typical budgie quietness as she is new and observing us.

Since Wednesday her urates have been white but today I noticed in the morning that they looked pale yellow.

I called the vet and they let me speak to a vet technician who said that sometimes urates can change color with introduction to a new diet . I was always told that urates don't change but the poo around that urates can change with the new diet . I've also heard that it if they're yellow it can mean liver issues .

*She has nothing with food dye in her cage. She was given veggies for the first time probably in her life (Petco bird) in the AM. But I am unclear if she ate any at all. She is eating otherwise her millet and seed.*

My questions for you guys are:

1) have you ever seen urates change in response to a new diet that does not Contain food dye?

Furthermore have you ever seen the urates change in response to stress or Newbird coming into the home, that clears up later?

The vet tech didn't think it was an emergency yet ( they only take emergency appointments today ) and said to come in on Monday if it was still there but just looking for how common it is for urates it's to change color. For example can stress do it?

Thanks so much

I attached two photos that show Ophelia' urates and at the top left corner is Tiki's poo with white urate. my thumb is next to Tiki's so you can see the difference in the color between him and Ophelia's.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet


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## jean20057 (May 31, 2013)

*The urates shouldn't change really with food. Take your birdo to the vet and ask them about the liver. My Holly had liver problems, and sadly I didn't address them fast enough. If you are just seeing this, chances are it's fixable. Please take her to the vet, ASAP.*


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Hmm. Now I feel worried. So I talked to one vet tech at our Avian vet and one at the afterhours one downtown and both said it is "possible" veggies could color urates but that it's hard to say. One tech said wait 12 hours and then if still there bring in maybe.

Her insurance hasn't kicked in yet with Nationwide. Should I take her to Petco for free treatment as Petco says says they will treat birds there if under 30 days of purchase? I feel like that place would have the worst care. Am I wrong?

If it is liver, how long do I have?? Have fast does that move?


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

Try to be calm and keep on monitoring your budgie. If she's eating/drinking normally and you don't notice a steep decline on her energy levels, then the situation is not dire and there is no need to assume the worst will happen.
If by tomorrow her poops haven't changed back to normal, then you can book her an appointment with your trusted avian vet.

Personally, when it comes to the health of my pets, I prefer to go with a professional I already know and have trust on. So, I wouldn't be going back to the store for my pet to be seen by a different professional.

I'm wishing your new budgie girl all the best.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I agree with aluz.

I personally would wait the 12 hours as the technician at your Avian Vet has recommended and make a decision at that point in time.*


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Ok guys. Thanks for your opinions here. I'll monitor and make a decision tomorrow.

Keep you posted. 

Thanks again.


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Well, things are not looking great for Ophelia. Her urates are still yellow and looking at her this morning I can tell she has lost a lot of weight. It's just very heartbreaking. 

But, I have spoken with Petco, and they will be taking my bird to the same Avian vet I take the rest of my small flock too (the best in our area which is lucky) which made me feel at ease. They have also promised to order a necropsy if in the event she does die so that I can be aware of whether it was viral etc. The newest bird was kept in quarantine in our bedroom, my boys go on the stairwell at night outside that room to sleep but are downstairs during the day and our other bird is in my daughters room across the hall from my bedroom. I have never mixed food bowls, and washed hands between touching anything from the new bird's cage, changed clothes etc if they came in contact with that bird, before touching the rest of the flock. I'm hoping that that was enough of a good separation in our very small city home to keep whatever it has far enough away.

She was just examined last Thursday to which she had no parasites, bacteria at that time and was very healthy. So at least at that checkup she was good. So I'm leaning towards viral or possibly just stress induced and something shut down in her body. But we shall find out. Based on her results, we will evaluate whether or not to use her for breeding at all.

The thing that makes me very sad (mad?) is the state of these Petco birds. Our Tiki was also a Petco bird when we got him 2 years ago. He quickly became sick and needing parisites eradicated. Bought 2 other birds from our local guy who gets them from local small breeders- both her were healthy. Get our latest bird from Petco on a whim and it's another sick bird. Lesson learned, but I feel so sad at the conditions these birds must be kept in and just the lack of love they receive. 

Anyway, thanks for your support guys. Hopefully she will be ok but I am not counting on it really. I think she isn't in good shape. While not fluffed up, she just looks hunched over and lacking energy.


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm very sorry to hear that...

As for any future breeding plans you might have, now is not the right time to even contemplate that or whether you will be using Ophelia or not.
What's most important now is doing your very best in saving her.

As a general rule and in order to prevent the chances of tragedy from setting, it's best to get budgies from a good and reliable source. 
From someone who actually puts the health and welfare of the breeding pairs and chicks in first place. 
Getting potential breeder budgies from a big chain store that likely resorts to bird mills where they are mass produced in extremely poor conditions and where inbreeding can also be present is *never* a good idea and shouldn't even be thought of.

It's a disaster waiting to happen, any chicks that may hatch would inherit the parents weakened immune system, would also be prone to getting ill more often, their life expectancy as a result would be much lower etc.
The chances for one of the parents to not be able to carry on with the breeding journey is higher too, we have witnessed here a good amount of cases where one of the mates had an untimely passing while raising the chicks or even when the mate was still in the early stages of the journey of incubating the eggs.

I truly hope that Ophelia has a good recovery and you get to enjoy her as an non-breeding pet.


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

That's exactly what I feel too. My husband and I were just discussing this. If we do get to keep her we will not be using her for breeding. We will just enjoy her a pet. I just don't want to risk it. 

Thanks Aluz.


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

That's good to know and you're very welcome.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm very sorry that Ophelia is not doing well and wish her all the best.

I think it is important at this time to point out to all members of the forum that birds purchased at the big box pet stores generally come from "Birdie Mills", the budgies do not have good genetic health.

Personally, I would not recommend breeding any birds that come from Petco or PetSmart. The risk to both the adult birds as well as any offspring is just too great, in my opinion.

All of the inbreeding of which took place prior to upcoming breeding of any budgies which come from colony breeding and/or birdie mills is simply going to perpetuate the ongoing problems in any offspring.

Anyone who wishes to breed needs to obtain good breeding stock from an ethical and responsible breeder.

Articles: Buying and Rescuing Budgies - Talk Budgies Forums*


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

You've been given great advice! It's always best to have full knowledge of a budgie's lineage and upbringing before breeding them, as mentioned, so I'm glad you've made the right choice to keep Ophelia as just a pet. 

It's important to note that budgies are not more or less enjoyable because they do or don't breed; getting to know the species and their habits through your flock is a great way to get to know budgies without even having to consider breeding. :thumbsup:


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Yeah. Breeding or not, they are lovely little creatures. Our whole family adores watching them interact and all their little antics. They are super little creatures. 

I think I feel so compelled to breed down the line because I really want to bring budgies into the world that have been raised well, started on good diets from the get-go, handled and raised in a family environemnt as pets first, and through this really help people to see these guys less as disposable toys and more as something that, while the world does not attach a monetary value as high as say a dog, are every bit as worthy and just as smart. So for me this drives me to do this in a year or two. Once they've all been pets first, and been part of the family, I'd love to breed them once a year. It's wouldn't be for money at all. Just for the love of these little guys. But we shall see. Who knows maybe I'll change my mind in a year. But studying up on them can't hurt. And even if it never happens I can still inform people about these lovely little pets. 

One thing I'll add here to in my edit is that I think for many of us it's incredibly difficult to even find a reputable breeder. I have a lovely man who gets birds from very reputable breeders out of state where I got my other guys but trying to deal with anyone directly in the local area- I've found none. No small breeders advertise. And I think there lies the big problem. So many of these small ethical breeders are not advertising or maybe are selling by word of mouth. Or, they just don't exist enough because of these big pet shops. We need more ethical breeders to make themselves known. I live a big city area. There should be more options but sadly there is not. I also like to pick my birds personally and that probably limits me further as some of the best and ethical ones I've seen ship from very far from where I live. Although I would possibly consider.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You are correct - finding good breeders in this area is very difficult which is why I made multiple 7+ hour trips one way to the breeder from whom I purchased my budgies.

When looking for responsible and ethical breeders, I would suggest contacting the American Budgerigar Society, Budgerigar Association of America, Maryland Budgerigar Society and various other bird clubs in your area to get recommendations of breeders.

Maryland Budgerigar Society
will host a dual affiliated show (BAA and ABS)
on Saturday June 3th

Mr. Larry Moore will be judging

The Show will be held in the Banquet Hall of the 
Travel Lodge of Winchester VA
160 Front Royal Pike
Front Royal VA 22602
(540) 665 0685

Call before April 30th and receive $69 room rate--Mention the Bird Show*


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Great. Thank you for the info. I contacted them for recommendations. 

7 hours is very far but understandably worth it.

Curious, have you ever considered breeding your birds?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I would never want to enter into breeding my birds.

Each and every one of them is too precious to me and I'd be too concerned about potential problems - especially for the females.

On top of that, I know myself and any offspring would never be sold or given away as I would have to keep each and every one of them for myself to ensure they got the top level of care I believe in. :blush:

I enjoy every one of my birds, budgies and lovebirds alike, and feel no desire to perpetuate their lineage. 
I'd much rather simply lavish them all with as much attention, love and affection as possible. *


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Haha aw. Yeah I understand that. I think that is the one thing that really concerns me too in selling them. I want to really make sure all my babies go to good homes and people who understand the level of care they need. That part is hard.


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

I also would never want to breed. Even if I had more free time.. too much to be concerned about. I've always just wanted companion pets. That's so much more enjoyable, and still enough responsibility!

I also know through experience of trying to locate a local ethical breeder, it is extremely hard to find. As common and popular as budgies are, I know lots of people breed them, so it stands to reason that at least some must be quality breeders out there but they don't often advertise far and wide if they advertise much at all. 

I got Mink and Chip, bred by the store owner who has several well known exotic bird stores here in Southern CA and has a good reputation. I got them at the store. I was originally hoping to find some English budgies in striking and unusual colors, but that was proving impossible to find locally believe it or not.. so I just opted for quality instead! 

Besides driving a distance... shipping from a quality breeder is also a good option. I have had (as well as many other people) only good experiences with having birds shipped across country by breeders who know how to do that. The drawback is paying a couple hundred for it, and for budgies, that can mean more than the purchase price. It's still at least worth considering it to get high quality. 

While going through the ABS and other clubs, keep in mind something that I encountered on my search... While these people have much experience and are a good connection to many other professional budgie people, many of them have seriously outdated knowledge, and were surprisingly ignorant when it came to my concern of contagious disease.


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Do you have a breeder you could recommend that shipped to you? I have heard puppiesareprozac and cutelittlebirdiesaviary are both good but cute little birdies website still isn't responsive for breeding inquiry. 

That's not good about their outdated knowledge! thanks for the heads up with this!


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

This was for other species. The breeders who I've used to ship before didn't have budgies . I was thinking of Cute Little Birdies for budgies, but it's too bad that it looks like she's not actively breeding or selling at this time.


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## midoritori (Dec 14, 2016)

Ophelia is all better they said and possibly ready to come home today 

She is eating well and sparky again they said.


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Great news . I'm glad to hear Ophelia is all better! Closing this thread now.


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