# Taming and Bonding with Hedwig and Pigwidgeon



## ColdWinterDream

So I posted yesterday on my two beautiful females, Hedwig and Pig. Things seem to be going well but I have several questions that I can't find answers to. 

Am I moving too fast? I spend the recommended time of 15-20 mins around 4 times a day talking to them. They seem to enjoy it as they close their eyes and are calm. When I step back, they become playful and chatty. Since they were calm, I moved a hand to the outside of the cage. They move a little ways away but then settle in and close their eyes and Hedwig will perch on one foot a lot. I did read to not put my hand in until they are curious and investigate it, so that's what I plan to do.

Are my kids making things better or worse? They are very conscious of the birds and always speak gently to them and never try to scare them (my son accidentally did today when he was putting a movie up). My kids are 8, 6, and 2 and are very patient with them knowing that it's best to wait to get to touch them. However, when they are home and I do my talking sessions, they want to be there too. Should I allow them to join in or is it better to just let me do it? Should I allow them near the cage to talk to the birds or just have them pretend the birds aren't there? They want to be a help and I can't find anything on this topic.

How do I know if my pets are scaring them? As I've mentioned before, I have 2 dogs and a cat. The dogs pay them no mind except for the day we got them when they started chirping. Now they ignore them completely. The cat is a little more interested, though each day pays them less attention. I know to be on guard with them and I feel my 4 legged babies are doing well with them. The birds don't seem to mind as well. They just keep on doing what they were doing so I'm hoping that's a good sign.

These are the only questions I have right now which I'm sure more are to come. When we are not in a talking sessions, the birds play and sing almost constantly. Hedwig gave us a good laugh today. She went to jump on a toy and missed and seemed to blame Pig. They both squacked for a few seconds before preening each other. Boy do these birds have personality!


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## Therm

From the way your birds are reacting to you, you should be able to gather yourself that they are comfortable with the level you're currently at. 

Again, with the kids being there it depends on what you see from your birds. Do they appear to make things better or worse? You will have to make the decision based on how the birds respond when the kids are there and compare it to doing it alone. 

Budgies will naturally be wary of predator animals. And a cat that is always interested in what they are doing is worrying to me. Yourself and the birds can never truly be at ease in the environment, as good as you are trying to make it for them.

Btw, when you have more questions you can't find the answers too, place them in this thread and please don't start another. Thanks


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## ColdWinterDream

The cat gets interested for maybe 5 seconds every several hours and each day it is less and less. Thank you for the advice with the kids. That actually helps quite a bit.


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## Therm

I'm going to close the thread at this time. 

If you have any more questions about how you're doing with your budgies, just ask one of the staff and we can reopen this thread for you.


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## ColdWinterDream

So I've been trying to share a video of Hedwig. When I talk to her, she opens and closes her mouth. She doesn't do it any other time. From what I gather, she's "mimicking" me. I moved to putting a hand on their cage and it seemed to not bother either one. They don't necessarily want to be close to, but they preen and carry on all the same. So tonight, I felt it may be time to put my hand in the cage. I know it's only been a week but I was ready to stop if need be. Again, Pig wants to be nowhere near my hand, but carries on. Same with Hedwig, she seems more comfortable though. She'll eat, play, preen, and chirp like it wasn't there. However, even if I move my hand the slightest (I try not to but it's hard to stay still) she moves away. No freaking out, just doesn't want to be touched. 

I just wanted to update y'all, but if you see anything I'm doing wrong, please let me know!


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## FaeryBee

*Everything you are doing so far is just fine! :thumbsup:

Simply keep working at Hedwig and Pigwidgeon's pace.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Thank you! It seems if I'd isolate them, Hedwig would be out of the cage in no time. Pig is a little slower at gaining trust so I'm trying to work at her pace. They each have so much personality and apparently like rock music. I was cleaning today and had on 12 stones and they excitedly chirped. No other genre got them excited. It's fun for me because I'm a rocker myself. Kid noises don't bother them at all and neither do loud noises made by anything in the house. All the other animals completely ignore them now. So all seems well.

Another question I have is about essential oils. My wife has been asking about alternatives for our house since candles are not allowed. She has a co-worker who makes natural candles out of soy and natural oils. My question is, if all the ingredients are 100% natural, is it safe for the bird?


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## FaeryBee

*I personally would not recommend using any type candle with a flame in an environment with budgies.

Using the unscented flameless candles can easily give you the same ambiance

For air fresheners, I would recommend using natural plant/herbs. Fresh Rosemary, Basil, Lemon Balm, or Lavender can be put in small vases and places about the room. Dried Herbs can be safely used as a homemade potpourri as the herbs are also safe the budgies' consumption.

Heating Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Cloves and/or all-spice in a small pot of water will give your home a lovely fragrance.
Using oranges, pricking them with a needle and inserting whole fresh cloves - then sitting those in strategic places are also great.

Some 100% essential oils are safe to use around your birds. 
These include eucalyptus, peppermint and lavender.*


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## ColdWinterDream

The candles aren't about the ambience, just the smell. Do you know where I can find a list of what is bird safe?


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## FaeryBee

*This link regarding the Safe Use of Medical Grade Essential Oils should be helpful for you:

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-hol...e-use-medical-grade-essential-oils-birds.html*


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## ColdWinterDream

New update!

Hedwig actually ate some millet that I was holding! Pig is still really weary of me so o try to focus on Hedwig. It's just difficult because when Pig gets upset, so does Hedwig.

Anyways, just wanted to share the good news!


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## FaeryBee

*Congratulations -- you are making progress! :thumbsup:*


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## ColdWinterDream

Thank you. She seems willing to work more. She was eating some millet I left for her last night so I got more out and would slowly pull it closer to see if she'd come. She did and then nibbled my finger. She stretched her head over my finger as moved the millet deeper into my hand. As soon as her chest hit my finger she backed off and we'd do it again. It seemed to be upsetting Pig, so I backed off. I'm really excited for the progress with her!


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## ColdWinterDream

Well during our noon session today, I was trying to coax Hedwig on my finger with some millet. I would let her have some and slowly pull it away. Pig got really interested and came up to the other side of my hand so I moved some for her to get. I allow them to eat it first to show that my hand gives them treats. Hedwig jumped down but Pig was still wanting some so I kept working with her. I ended up getting her on my finger several times! I'm shocked! I thought Hedwig would be the first, but nope, it was the leery Pigwidgeon.

Also, while working with Hedwig, she'd bite my finger as if to say to move it. I didn't move it and just let her and reset the exercise when she was done. Was that the right thing to do?


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## FaeryBee

*:jumping: Yes, you're doing great!
Good for little Pig for deciding to be first in stepping up.
Your instinct in how to handle Hedwig's biting was spot-on.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Good. I was not expecting the progress today, but I'm so excited for it. I tried to get a picture of Pig on my finger but she didn't stay long enough. I'll get on asap.


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## ColdWinterDream

So now Pig goes to my finger nearly every time! Hedwig did get up on it but has only a couple of times. I'm so happy for the progress!


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## StarlingWings

That's great that they both are learning to trust you; slowly but surely


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## ColdWinterDream

Look who came out for a picture today!



Pig will step up easily but isn't ready to get out of the cage. Tomorrow starts real bonding with Hedwig. I can't wait!


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## ColdWinterDream

New question. 

How do I get the birds used to being out of their cage? Hedwig will come out if I have millet and Pig wants nothing to do with it. They'll both step up no problem now so I know it's time to work on that.


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## ColdWinterDream

*Coming out of cage*

I tried to ask in my other post, but got no answer.

How do I get my birds to come out of their cage?

They step up no problem when I have millet and will sporadically without. Hedwig will come out with millet only. So today, I thought it best to put some millet outside the cage and leave the cage open (the cat is locked in another room). Both birds have been quiet with it open. Should I continue to do this until they become comfortable or is this a no-no?


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## FaeryBee

*I've merged your two Taming/Bonding threads and retitled the thread for you. 

With regard to coming out of the cage, you can try a couple of different methods.

You can leave the cage door open (bird safe room only -- no other pets allowed in at all) when you are there to supervise.

Place a perch on the outside of the cage by the door.
The bendable rope perches work well for this.
(Just make sure neither budgie chews on the rope)

You can set up a little play area for Hedwig and Pigwidgeon with a couple of their favorite toys and a sprig of millet to entice them to come out on their own.

If the top of their cage is flat, you can easily use the top of the cage as a play area for them.

You can also work on having each one of them step up inside the cage and very slowly move your hand toward the entrance of the cage. If Pig hops off your hand, then she simply isn't ready to face the big world outside her safe home yet.

Work at Hedwig and Pig's pace -- they are doing great so far!*


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## ColdWinterDream

So today I left the cage door open and both jumped out on their own. They seemed to enjoy it but I had to put them up to leave to an appointment. They didn't want to step up and wouldn't willing let my hand get less than a foot from them. Is this normal and eventually work out? Or do I need to take a couple of steps back?


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## FaeryBee

*It takes time to get budgies to learn to go back into their cage willingly if they aren't yet good about stepping up.

I have untamed budgies that go back in their cage because I've used positive reinforcement training to teach them they will get a reward when they do so.

Initially, when I was ready for them to go back in the cage I would first dim the lights and pull down the shades in the room. If the radio or TV was on, I turned it off.

Then I would stand by their cage and ringing the bell on one of their toys while telling them, "It's time to go in your cage now!"

Once they went back into the cage, they were given a small bit of millet.

This method worked well and they now go in the cage when asked to do so without the lights being dimmed or the blinds lowered and the TV or radio can stay on.

Getting the millet reward is the best part of "going back home".*


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## ColdWinterDream

I started backing off a bit as it seemed the birds were starting to stress out. So now, I put my hand in the cage with millet and let them come to me. Hedwig will step up to get the millet, then bite me. How do I discourage biting but encourage being on my hand?


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## ColdWinterDream

So today we tried lettuce and brussel sprouts. They seem to love them but haven't been able to eat them well. (Maybe they are and I just don't know how it's supposed to look. Hedwig will come out of the cage but she pants and seems very curious, looking around and such. She bites too. Sometimes pretty hard. I just ignore it and do what I was doing as if she isn't. Pig won't get out of the cage but will step up for treats. Both get excited when I come home but don't really want to be with me when I'm by the cage. 

Please, I need advice on what to do about biting and how much I need to push them.


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## Birdmanca

As the 2 birds feel relaxed and at home with you, they will be more easy to train, or whatever you wish they learn. Your kids seem like they are doing well about the birds. The cat can be scary. Some are aggressive , some are not. I do not know your cat, so cannot say what he may do. May be a nice, peaceful cat. I like a couple of neighbors cats. Because they are friendly. Overall, all seems well at your place with the birds.


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## FaeryBee

*It might be beneficial for you to begin Clicker Training with Hedwig and Pigwidgeon at this point in time. Using the positive reinforcement and giving them more focus should take away from the desire to bite as frequently.

http://talkbudgies.com/taming-bonding/225961-biting-learned-often-avoidable-behavior.html

http://talkbudgies.com/taming-bonding/237105-using-positive-reinforcement-training.html

http://talkbudgies.com/taming-bonding/265337-basics-clicker-training.html*


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## ColdWinterDream

Update on Hedwig and Pigwidgeon:

Recently, we had a major set back. I don't know if it's something I did, the kids did, or both. They wouldn't step up and were upset if I tried to go near them with my hand. I was getting them out of the cage to start bonding, but decided to back off. They still would take the treat out of my hand but would be leery. So I decided to work with it. I just left my hand with the treat in the cage, let them eat, and move it. Eventually, they would come and eat more. Well today, I finally got Pig to step back up and let her eat the treat. I would put her back and repeat. Eventually both caught on and when I'd put one down, the other was eager to jump on my finger for the treat. It was great progress!

Tried to edit the last post to included:

Hedwig still is biting. It seems somewhat random and somewhat not. It almost seems as aggression. She'll do it in any circumstance. She's getting a little softer on it so maybe I'm working it out. Any help with this matter would be appreciated.


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## ColdWinterDream

I never found a way to get Hedwig to stop biting. I simply ignore it or take away the treat. It seems to be working. She still bites but it's a lot less severe. I give them both time out of the cage. They prefer the top of their cage so I leave toys up there. I've decided not to leave any treats in the cage. They are for me to feed them so they see my hand as a treat. Pig is still very timid. She'll eat any treat that's in my fingers and sometimes step up. I've worked more with Hedwig because of it. I've had her out to bond a couple of times but it does seem to stress her a little bit. Right now I've just been laying her on my stomach while I watch t.v. I bring millet and a toy and she'll eat the millet after a few minutes. She seems to bite more when she's scared, but sometimes it seems like she's preening me. Sometimes it hurts so I'm unsure. They both LOVE brussel sprouts and are willing to try new things. They are absolutely acclimated to their cage. Nothing phases them while They are in there. They sing, squack, and play all the time. They also don't make a noise when we are in bed so They are perfect. Hedwig does seem to be a little aggressive. Is that normal?


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## FaeryBee

*How old is Hedwig now?
She may be going through her puberty stage and becoming more hormonal. Many budgies become "bitey" during that stage.

Another thing to remember is that budgies really have few ways to communicate, If a budgie is scared, stressed or tired it may bite at those times. Part of bonding with your budgie(s) is learning to read their body language and take cues from their behavior.

It is a journey and a process so take it a day at a time and enjoy the little successes along the way! *


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## ColdWinterDream

They were 3 to 4 months when I got them so she's around 5 months. I try to enjoy them, but it's hard to be prepared for the step back. I know we must go through it and I need to push a little so they learn that I'm trustworthy everywhere. Should I keep getting her out everyday or move to every other day where one day is strictly in the cage and the next day is the uncomfortable time.


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## ColdWinterDream

Sorry for the resolution. I didn't want to startle her. She absolutely loves this toy. It's taken awhile, but she's finally got up on it!


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## FaeryBee

*It's best to have a set routine.
If you can do the same time each day, that will help.
Short sessions may work better than longer sessions for you.
Perhaps just do 10 minutes.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Most days I can do 8am, noon, and 5pm. Should I do more or keep it at that? Most sessions is just feeding them millet or veggies until they are done.


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## ColdWinterDream

New question. How much is preening supposed to "hurt?" On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a simple touch and 10 being drawing blood.

Hedwig has been biting at like a 3 or 4 while she is eating something from my hand. To me, she seems really happy and i can't think of another reason for the bite.


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## FaeryBee

*The three sessions you indicate should be fine. :thumbsup:

I think a 3-4 sounds normal for preening/nibbling.

I consider a "bite" to be a 7 or above.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Thank you. The bites don't hurt but there is pressure so i was unsure and didn't want to allow a bad habit. 

As far as sessions, this is my busy time of year. I drive a school bus and trips galore. So we've gone down to the 5 pm session. The babies have responded very well when I give them their treats and Hedwig's actual hard biting has been greatly reduced. 

Also, I have a couple of weeks coming up that I'll be gone. They are separated by a month. The first one, my wife will be home. She won't actually touch them, but will take care of them and talk to them as she does now. The second week I'm a little concerned with. My mom wants to take them for me. She'll take good care of them I'm sure, but what directions will be best to give her and what should I expect from the birds when they come home?


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## FaeryBee

*It's inevitable that there will be some regression with regard to the bird's training while you are away.

I'd make a list of things for your Mom with regard to the bird's care.
Common Dangers
Safe Foods
Bird First Aid​
You can locate the information above in the forum Stickies and Budgie Articles.

I'd also provide her with the contact information and emergency phone number for your Avian Vet.

*


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## ColdWinterDream

New toys!

So today we were at Pet Smart and got a new perch and swing! Both babies are in birdie heaven right now. They instantly jumped on both and started to enjoy them. 

Also, my wife, who is not a bird fan, actually gave them millet and Pig let her stroke her chest. That's a big step for both. It's so awesome watching her fall in love with them. Though the rule of no birds out when she is home is still in effect. (I'm at home during the day without her so they will get plenty of out of cage time. 

Also, I've noticed they don't respond too well when the kids are home. They are fine with whatever noise happens when the cage is shut, but I tend to scare them when I have to get on to a child while working with them. For this reason, sessions are limited to when it's just me at home. I know it's gonna take longer, but I feel it's for the best.

Any and all suggestions are more than welcome!


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## FaeryBee

*I think the structure of you working with them when you are home alone with them will definitely be for the best! :thumbsup:*


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## ColdWinterDream

Thank you. I don't like it and summer break is right around the corner. I had Hedwig out today (we watched Disco the budgie) and she seemed to do fine. Hopefully after this week, the next three weeks will do wonders.


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## FaeryBee

*Perhaps during summer break you and your wife can make an agreement that for specific periods of time each day she and the children will be out of the house (or in a specific area of the house) so you can work one-on-one with the budgies.

I'm sure with some negotiations and compromise you'll be able to find a solution so you can continue training sessions with Hedwig and Pigwidgeon during that time frame.*


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## ColdWinterDream

So I decided to see how well Hedwig liked a shower. She's been doing very well just hanging out with me. I turned it on warm for her. Not too sure how she liked it. She'd just close her eyes and stay still.


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## ColdWinterDream

Sorry for the posting again, but I must brag on my wife, Tyna.

She's not a bird fan, but agreed to have them knowing how much I wanted them. She was simply going to have nothing to do with them. She does have an irrational fear, more of the creep her out, from something that happened as a kid. So slowly, she starts talking to them and enjoying watching them, but wouldn't go up to the cage. She's been warming ever since. Mainly with Pig. She was just drawn to her from day 1. Well a couple of days ago, she decided she wanted to touch one of them. (She knew the no touching the back thing.) She goes up to them, not slowly, but in a non-threatening way, opens and the cage, and goes to pet Pig. And what does Pig do? She lets Tyna pet her belly! I'm astonished! Pig never lets me near her without millet.

My theory is their bond is more natural. When we get our birds, we are ready then to bond and love them. Our birds are not ready for that. With them, it's both aren't "ready" for more. Tyna said she never wanted Pig to step up, but then she did it. She's so good for Pig and I'm enjoying watching them progress. I don't want to push either of them and I'm sure eventually the cage rule will be gone.



She took this pic to show me that Pig let her.


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## FaeryBee

*That is phenomenal and well worth a celebratory post!

Tyna and Pigwidgeon -- :urock:*


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## ColdWinterDream

How do I get Hedwig to settle down while we are bonding? Is it too soon if she isn't happily coming with? She seems to just want Pig.


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## FaeryBee

*It is normal for budgies to prefer spending time with their same species friend.

It may be easier if you separate the two into different rooms during training session times.*


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## ColdWinterDream

She also looks like she is panting. Does that mean I need to stop or she's just not used to it yet?


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## FaeryBee

*If she is panting, then she is stressed.
Back off and take things more slowly at her pace. *


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## ColdWinterDream

That's a phrase that has me confused, "at her pace." How do I know what her pace is? They'll both eat millet out of my hand. Pig won't let me move her but will stay there. They don't seem to mind how long I'm there with my hand in their cage. Hedwig will let me move her around but gets stressed when I take her out. How do I know when she's ready?


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## FaeryBee

*If Hedwig is getting stressed when you take her out of her cage, then try letting her come out on her own.

Set up a playgym outside the cage and leave the door to the cage open when you are there to supervise her.

Remember there are no set "rules" and answers to your questions when it comes to taming and bonding practices.

A lot of taming and bonding is using your own intuition and trying different things to see what works with your budgies.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Update on the girls.

We've seem to hit a plateau with training and bonding. We are almost strictly at stepping up for millet inside the cage. I'm waiting to work on out of cage bonding until they are excited to have me in their cage. We are getting close to that with Hedwig. Pig is further off but coming along. They seem to trust that I am safe. They don't run from me more than not wanting to be touched. So we'll park here for a little bit.

I do test Hedwig out of the cage some. Just to see if she's ready. If she's on her cage, she's relaxed, but won't go back in. If she's on my shoulder and I'm walking around, she'll preen me. She still opens and closes her mouth so I'm wondering if maybe she's ok with me but unsure of her surroundings? If that's the case, I don't know what'll calm her down other than just repetition. Again, she seems to trust me but just doesnt want to be out. 

Question: When they molt and can fly, will that make them more confident out of the cage? That seems to be the big issue, that they are scared of hitting the ground.

Lastly, a celebration moment. I decided to see if Hedwig would jump to my finger. I have millet in my fingers and get her to step up and praise. Then I'll put her down and move my finger a little further and repeat praise and reward. We got about a 6 inch jump and it was awesome! I figure this will help in recall training when she's able to fly and out of the cage. If not, it's a fun little game we play!

That's all for now!


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## FaeryBee

*It sounds as though you are making good progress.

Is Hedwig opening and closing her beak when you are talking to her? 
I ask because sometimes budgies do that as they "silently practice" mimicking speech.

I doubt she's doing it because she's uncomfortable unless it appears that she's actually adjusting her crop - not just opening and closing her beak.

I have one budgie that open and closes his beak all the time. 
Scooter usually looks like he's chewing gum.
Apparently (according to the Avian Vet) it's nothing to be concerned about as he is perfectly healthy. *


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## ColdWinterDream

Chewing gum is a great description of what it looks like! However, she doesn't really do it while she's in the cage, only when she's out. I have learned that when she wants something, she'll bite a little harder. I try to discourage that but as it doesn't hurt and is very close to a preen, I don't do too much. 

Also, I meant to mention that we have tried some fruits and veggies. Hedwig seems to be willing for new things, Pig not so much. They both LOVE brussel sprouts and carrots. Hedwig will also eat lettuce. We've also tried raisins and bananas. Both were rejected.


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## ColdWinterDream

So I took a couple of videos. The first is Hedwig taking a bath. I tried to catch more but she ended it quickly. She does seem to enjoy them! The second was to show her "gum chewing." This is how she acts out of the cage and I wanted to make sure she's ok.


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## FaeryBee

*Hedwig certainly does seem to be enjoying her bath. 

That "gum-chewing" motion is exactly what Scooter does. 
Another member on our forum also has a budgie that does the same thing. 

My Avian Vet indicated Scooter is perfectly healthy and his beak movements are nothing to be concerned about.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Thank You! She was done with the bath once she lost her balance. It was cute how she took off up my arm


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## FaeryBee

*


ColdWinterDream said:



Thank You! She was done with the bath once she lost her balance. It was cute how she took off up my arm

Click to expand...

Hedwig is adorable and obviously getting used to you! :thumbsup:*


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## ColdWinterDream

She still bites a lot. I'm not sure how to fix that.


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## ReneBC

Sounds like you are doing great!
Thanks for sharing the experience with the rest of us 

A bathing Budgie is always a joy to watch! they get so in to it don't they? 

My Fido is, as FearyBee indicated, also doing the chew thing, has been the last 6 months or so, usually has a seed rolling around in his beak, when he does it (I can see it and if I hear it drop, he will go get a new one asap hehe), guess it's just a part of who he is, a little odd-ball :001_wub:


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## ColdWinterDream

Today has been an eventful day (and a good one at that)! The first video is some play time inside the cage. She stops at the end because one of the girls came up. She did continue to play after. The second one I was trying to get Pig playing. She played for a bit, but when the camera came out, she wanted nothing to do with it. Also, they "squabble" like that a few times a day. I think it's normal, if not, please let me know. Finally, they have been making a "tut" sound. Kind of like a beatboxer would for a high hat sound, if y'all know the reference. I can't figure out if it has a meaning or if it's mimicking. Anyways, I hope y'all enjoy these new videos!


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## FaeryBee

*Their behavior is all perfectly normal and nothing at all to be concerned about.
The sounds you are referring to are normal as well.

Cute videos! *


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## ColdWinterDream

So I bought a playground today. After I built it, I kept it on the floor and put them on it to show them it's fun. I now have placed on the entertainment center by their cage. I didn't do that first because if they are near their cage, they want to be in or on it. If they are on it, they want no interaction. However, if they are off of it, it's game on for play with Daddy!



I also made a tear up toy from a toilet paper roll. I cut it into slices, made it a ball, and put some millet in it as a treat when they break through.

I'm so happy with how things are progressing. They even let the kids interact with them when they are out of the cage! It seems they both trust me and know I protect and provide for them. Now it's time for good bonding so they want to be with me, and training.

P.s. How do you put the little bird emojis in your post?


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## FaeryBee

*Hedwig and Pigwidgeon look like they are having fun on their new playgym. 
It's wonderful they are learning to trust you and even allowing the kids to interact with them.

I'd suggest you trim the fringe on the rope down to no more than 1/2" for safety.

If you are using a computer to post you should be able to see the little "smilies" including the bird emojis in a box next to the block where you type when you post. 
You can choose them from there to insert into your posts.*


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## ColdWinterDream

I am using my cell phone. How do I go about fringing it down?


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## ColdWinterDream

When the birds are on their cage, they won't step up without a treat in my fingers. While on top the cage, and only on the cage, they won't step up period. It's obvious it's not "I'm scared of you" it's a "i don't want you to pick me up." They don't really leave top eventhough food and playground is to the side. I have to take them out of the cage. Almost trick them to coming out. They love being out, but if I just leave the cage open, they won't come out at all. They aren't scared being out as when they are out, they sing and play like normal. They just prefer to be inside the cage. 

Instinct and common sense tells me that these issues will resolve as time goes on and we bond more. (We just got to what seems like full trust, so I know now is when true bonding starts.) All I'm curious about is tips to make this process easier and smoother.


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## ColdWinterDream

Another celebratory post!

I had to make them come to me, but this is what happened when they did. By the way, I do know human saliva can be dangerous so I'm being very careful. This was just too sweet of a moment not to share!


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## Hunterkat

Oh my goodness! That is so sweet.


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## FaeryBee

*Well done! They are definitely bonding with you now!﻿*


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## ColdWinterDream

It seems once they learned to trust me, this came easy. I'm very excited for our new relationship!

Now that I have that trust, I'm gonna start clicker training. I did read the sticky at the top of this cage. Right now it'll be for stationary and going back in their cage. Flight recall will be a must when they finally molt. Are there any good training manuals on here or online that y'all suggest?


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## ReneBC

Nice one.
Funny how a small breakthrough, leads to the next and so on!
Thanks for sharing


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## ColdWinterDream

Now that they are comfortable out of the cage, I want to do a deep clean. I have been just wiping things down. So my question is this...is it ok to just use original dawn? I know it's ok to use, but I see a lot of people use vinegar and my wife isn't too fond of the smell.


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## ColdWinterDream

I know I haven't posted in awhile. Everything is well. Not much has changed from the last time I posted. Except for out of cage time. Both will come out on their own and enjoy time with me. It's not every day that they come out. I've been a part of couple of groups on Facebook that help a lot. However, a lot have said Hedwigs "chewing gum" is nervousness and are deadset on it. She still will chirp, preen, and eat millet while perching. She's also still bitey. I've tried discouraging it, but it made her worse. She hasn't really wanted my finger near her lately. She'll still eat millet from my hand and if i can get her to me, she seems the same, just the finger is the problem. Any and all advice would be appreciated.


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## FaeryBee

*When you refer to various forums and groups you are bound to get conflicting opinions.
Talk Budgies goal is to promote the best practices for the health and well being of budgies. 

As posted previously, both Rene and I have told you our budgies do have the same behavior. I can assure you that my Scooter does not make the "chewing gum" motion because of nervousness.

If you are concerned about Hedwig's "chewing gum" behavior then it is best that you have her seen by an Avian Vet to ensure there are no underlying issues.

Best wishes!*


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## ColdWinterDream

Thank you. I'm still not too concerned with it. I'm just really curious about the biting and what I can do. I'm not sure if she sees it a play, a real rough preen, or chewing like she does on her perch. I'm sure she's not scared as her and Pig spent hours with me and never tried to leave.


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## ColdWinterDream

So I need some advice. Hedwig will no longer step on my finger while in the cage. She'll still come for millet and veggies just when I present my finger, she's gone. Out of the cage she's her normal self. It seems taking her out of the cage was the cause. She still comes out on her own and i can get her on my finger if I'm persistent. Will this change with more bonding and time?


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## FaeryBee

*Try offering the back of your hand for her to step up on rather than your finger.

For some reason, many budgies seem to prefer stepping up on the back of the hand.*


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## ColdWinterDream

I did try that. Just the same result. Maybe when we are bonded more things will change. She comes out of the cage almost as soon as the door is open so I'm just unsure what is happening as it's only in the cage.


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## FaeryBee

*She may simply be letting you know, in her own way, that the cage is her safe place and her home. She prefers not to be disturbed when she's in it.

The fact that she comes out when the door is opened lets you know she is still willing to interact with you on her terms.
I'd simply respect her boundaries.*


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## ColdWinterDream

Should I still feed her by hand in the cage since she seems to do well with it?


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## FaeryBee

*Sure, that's fine!*


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## ColdWinterDream

So now Hedwig is chewing, a lot. Usually it's just certain items in her cage. Lately it's been my shirt, my pants when she's on my knee, and anything else she can get. Her and Pig seem to get shorter with each other too. Is this indicative of a molt coming or is there something else? They do have a cuttle bone but rarely use it.


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## ColdWinterDream

I just realized I haven't shown any pics lately. We aren't too bonded, but we still get some good moments.

And now for a few videos.











They seem to take to everyone the same.






This is a cat water fountain that they love. She did this as soon as she was introduced to it.

Also, Tyna now allows them to be out when she's home. She still doesn't like it when they get "flappy" so we don't do a lot of it.


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## StarlingWings

Those are some great photos of the girls! I especially like Hedwig's "open beak" shot


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## FaeryBee

*
Your videos are working fine and I love the little fountain.
Might I ask where your found it?

Unfortunately, Photobucket is refusing to let us see your pictures. 

It would be a good idea to start using Imgur instead.

http://talkbudgies.com/how-guides/175818-how-post-full-size-pictures-photo-sharing-site.html*


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## ColdWinterDream

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I hope these work.

As far as the fountain, I saw some people in Facebook groups that had then and their birds loved them. They are called Catit and are a cat water fountain. You have to rig the flower to make it better for the birds. I just cut a top off of a soda bottle and then cut a straw for extra tubing. I got this one at petco but they are online too.


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## FaeryBee

*I love the pictures!

Thanks for the information about the fountain.
I'll have to look into getting one for my guys. *


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## ColdWinterDream

New observation. Both Hedwig and Pig are growing flight feathers, however, they don't have pin feathers. Hedwig has also lost a couple of feathers as well. This isn't a concern, just a curious thing as I thought molting started with pin feathers.


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## StarlingWings

It depends on which part of the body they're moulting at the time whether or not you see pin feathers  Since each moult, budgies replace different feathers, sometimes it begins with visible pin feathers (such as on the head and face) and sometimes with not-so-visible pin feathers, which they still have but perhaps are hidden, such as the ones for the flight feathers, which are under the wing and not usually visible  

Hedwig and Pigwidgeon are adorable!


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## ColdWinterDream

Big news! Hedwig finally flew! It wasn't long and it wasn't graceful, but definitely flight!


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## ReneBC

That's great news!
Thanks for sharing your adventures with us 
Great photos and videos


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## FaeryBee

*Congratulations on your first flight, Hedwig!
:urock:*


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## ColdWinterDream

So most of our interactions is the birds just relaxing with me. I get them out of their cage and just put them on my shoulder while I relax. I'll watch t.v., play video games, and things of that nature while talking to them. They usually don't like it at first, but quickly enjoy it. I've been taking things slower as it was stressing them out it seemed. Hedwig was always biting. After not interacting with them so much, they step up easier in their cage and Hedwigs bites have greatly diminished in how hard they are. Now, I want to play with them. They do play in their cage a lot and seem to enjoy being out. However, when I try to play, I get the reaction in the video. Do y'all have any tips or tricks to make me seem more fun?


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## ColdWinterDream

Just dropping in to show some fun moments from today!









































Each video is under a minute. Excuse the kids and my cough if you can hear them.


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## FaeryBee

*They are both extremely sweet little budgies! *


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## ColdWinterDream

Hahaha, Hedwig has you fooled! ?


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## Hunterkat

They're so cute! Hedwig cracks me up


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## ColdWinterDream

For those of you who keep up with Hedwig and Pigwidgeon, you know baths just aren't a thing. Well today, this happened. Yes, that is Pig joining in as well!


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## FaeryBee

*Yaaayyy! :jumping:
Well done, ladies. 
:smiley-talk017:*


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## ColdWinterDream

Long time no post, thanks to some technical difficulties! It's all sorted now and Hedwig and Pigwidgeon are back.

When last we met, the girls were barely flying. Now, they are fully flighted and absolutely love doing laps around the living room. I swear they are racing sometimes. It's such a joy seeing them zoom around.

Hedwig is her normal ornery self. However, she's picked up a new little quirk. Any time I add any other food to their seed bowl, she hates it. She'll pick it out and throw it on the floor before eating it. My wife and I get a real good kick out of it.

Pigwidgeon has changed the most. She's still reserve, but it a whole lot more willing to try new things. She's now usually the first to new toys or the first to try new foods. Hedwig just can't bothered. It's amazing seeing her come out of her shell. One big change is baths. She used to never want to bathe. Now, she's constantly in a bowl of water and enjoying their fountain.

Christmas was a fun time around our house. They both were very unsure of the tree. They adjusted their flight path accordingly. Pig landed on it once. I swear, I've never seen a budgie land and take off so fast. It is a fake tree and I was very careful to watch them around it. For Christmas, we got to go to our cabin. It's an hour and a half drive and usually I use a sitter. However, she's no longer available (more on that in a minute). I was nervous about the ride and having two noisy birds with my stepdad for 5 days. All for naught, they did absolutely amazing, although quiet for the most part. By the end of our trip, they were enjoying the new scenery. Both my mom and stepdad really enjoyed having them there. 

Thanksgiving was a little different. They went to the sitter's. They live across the street and were very excited to watch them. Once we got back, they informed me that they enjoyed them so much that they were getting their own! Yay for new budgie owners! So that's why I lost my sitter. I'll see if I can get her here to introduce her flock.

Now, for bonding. That has been a very slow process. Almost to a stop. Pigwidgeon is very attached to Hedwig and any bonding sessions would result in stress, so I decided to stop 1-on-1. I still interact with them a lot. They also are very easy to get out of their cage and they trust me explicitly. They will ride around on my shoulder and stay there while I do tasks. The big issue is if sit down, they take off to their cage. If I'm interacting with them around their cage, they still preen me and a chirp as well as love millet. This brings me to yesterday. Knowing all that, I decided to try something. Once I got them out, I moved their cage to another room where they wouldn't see it. They were a little confused at first. I went to get them and see if they would sit with me. Like I said, usually, I can't sit down before they are gone. Yesterday, they stayed with me for 45 minutes before leaving! They were playing and singing and preening me and each other. They've never done that while being flighted. They also were more curious, as usually they just stick around their cage. They would land in new spots and seemed to play more. 

Overall, we are all happy living together. Nothing phases them and they seem to have perfect personalities for our somewhat chaotic household.


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## ColdWinterDream

So this is Christmas day when they finally were brave enough for boiled eggs.

Eggs for Christmas


http://imgur.com/QyvOE


Video of Pig enjoying a bath.






Yesterday during the 45 mins they stayed with me.


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## FaeryBee

*It was great to see your update on Hedwig and Pigwidgeon. I enjoyed seeing the pictures and video. It looks as if all is going very well!
:thumbsup:*


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## StarlingWings

I'm glad to hear that things are going well with your two little owls  

Sounds like they're doing great!


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## ColdWinterDream

Haven't posted as not much has changed. We are bonding slowly, but certainly surely. Hedwig's hard biting is all but gone. She still nibbles and chews a lot, but she's much gentler with me.

My question is when are they supposed to go into breeding condition? I'm not interested in breeding them, but they are both a year and haven't gone into it yet. I just want to make sure everything is ok.


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