# Recurring digestion issue



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Hello, 
So my Gwen has been having recurring issues with her digestion. She has drops stick to her vent and we would treat it and she would be okay and than again next month same issue. This has been going on for months now. One of possible and likely diagnosis is coccidiosis.
The latest medicine the vet gave us was Enrofloxacin but i think it is not helping her now. I will attach photos of her in a pose she is quite often lately when resting. This is not her pose all the day. She sings, eats, drinks, plays... 
I am thinking of stopping giving her medicine and switching back to Toltrazuril.
Also, whenever i am done with giving her medicine i clean her cage thoroughly with alcohol vinegar diluted in water. I have been told that the virus or whatever she may have(no testing can be done for sure cause the vets here don't do it) can be rezistent so I am thinking of buying her new cage? 
Any advice is more than welcome. Please tell me if it's normal for her to be resting in his pose. Thank you


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Without actual testing at least on the droppings it is not possible to say what is causing the problem, therefore any treatment is just a best guess and may not be what is needed. What were you treating her with and for how long when you say she would be ok and then regress the next month? Enrofloxacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic but that will not help if the issue is not one of a bacterial infection. Coccidiosis is a parasitic issue so the Toltrazuril will help if it is in fact Coccidiosis. It is possible that it is a fungal issue as well or something else with the GI tract. Some birds like to rest in odd positions but if this is something new then I would say that she is in that position because it is how she feels most comfortable. Is her breathing at all labored? Where are you located, was it an avian vet that saw her initially?


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Hey Cody, thanx for your answer.
We don't have avain vet and no vet has seen her. We are treating her by advice of a bird breeder.
She was being treated with Toltrazuril, the medicine would be given for 2 days, than 5 days rest, than 2 days again. And she would be fine for few weeks.
I do not notice that her breathing has changed at all. She chirps and sings a lot. She doesn't breathe too fast or shakes. 
She kinda puffs her bottom when resting and is often in that position, leaning downward.
She always rests like that after she eats.
I do not know why she keeps gettings sick all the time. Do you think it's the environment, should change her cage, or?


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

What are you feeding her? Does the breeder that you are dealing with use a vet? When you don't know the problem, you may be giving meds that are not necessary and could have side effects. What is the environment that she is in, where is the cage? It is always best practice to keep the cage clean, daily tasks of changing the paper at the bottom of the cage,washing the food and water cups and making sure the perches are clean and free of droppings, of course more often than daily if you see it is needed.
If you are washing the cage, the cage is probably not the issue, make sure you rinse it well so no residue is left on it. Is the cage itself in good condition, is there any rust on it?


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

I feed her same food for the last 8 years Versele Laga Premium Prestige Budgies. And i give her spray millet.
Her cage is in living room, two sides next to a wall, no direct sunlight or gusts.
I changed all her perches after second time she got sick. And i am keeping them clean from droppings.
The cage is a bit old, little over 6 years. The wires around her water changed color and the plastic on the bottom wore a bit. But that is it.
I don't know if this matters but she never leaves her cage even though i leave her door open (she is pretty frightened bird).


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

I have contacted an avian vet, and she told me that since Gwen isn't responding well no neither antibiotics or antiparasite treatment that she could, based on photos i sent her, could be overweight or could have abdominal tumor. 
She suggested weighting her but i don't know how to do that since she won't come on my hand or step out of her cage.
I will see if she can find me any good avian vets nearby.
I wanted to attach few more photos of Gwen and ask your opinion if she looks overweight.
And what are more symptoms or tumor, cause she has this issue recurring for almost half a year. I mean, she is always the same, hasn't got that much worse.


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Few more photos..


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Yes indeed - Gwen looks to be quite overweight.

How much are you feeding her?
A budgie should only get 1 to 1 1/2 teaspoons of seed per day.
Millet should be strictly limited to just a treat and only given occasionally. One little ball of millet is sufficient.

Are you giving her any fresh vegetables? This is an important part of a healthy diet for budgies.

Please read the information in the following links:

Obesity in Birds

Nutritional Diseases in Budgies

Obesity and Overfeeding Pet Birds

Is Your Bird Overweight?

Healthy Diet for your Budgie

Safe Foods for Budgies

If there are no Avian Vets near you, please find an Exotic Pet Veterinarian with experience in dealing with small birds.

Locate an Avian Vet 

International Vets Register
Vets

Bird Vets Near You
Veterinarians.com

United Kingdom

Find an Avian Vet

Find an Avian Vet near you

The Parrot Society - Avian Vets

The Bird Care Company - Avian Vets

RCVS - Find a Vet

On Line Avian Vets

https://www.justanswer.com/pet-bird/

https://www.vetlive.com/*


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Thank you for the links, i will go through all of them.
Well, i feed her same since day one and that is full yellow bowl(in pictures) but she eats maybe quarter of it daily. Millet is always available, but it lasts about 10 days. 
She doesn't eats any fruits or vegetables, she never wanted any. I would leave it in her cage and she wouldn't even come near.
She is very scared of anything new or different.


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

This is her today, this is her 'spooked' look but isn't puffed so i attached it as you can see her chest and belly clear. Does she look normal?
And these are her droppings as of past two days.


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Are her wings always in that drooped position? Do you have sand at the cage bottom, if so I would remove it and line the cage bottom with newspaper or paper towels, if she is ingesting the sand that may not be good for her, budgies do not need grit in their diet and it can cause problems.


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

No, her wings aren't usually in this position. She was flapping them just before i took the photo.
Yeah, i have always used bird sand. She never goes to the bottom of the cage unless she falls of perches but she immediately climbes back up. So she definitely didn't eat any.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You really need to cut back on the amount of food you are giving her. 1 to 1 1/2 teaspoons of seed per day is all she needs and the millet should really be only used sparingly as a treat.

Additionally, it would be best if youremove the sand/grit from the cage and stop using it.*


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Thank you, I will do so.


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

A little update, 
So i had her drops tested and i got results back. I am told she has tested positive for e.coli. She is given medication called Giraxa which is basically Colistin sulfate polymyxin E.
First, i sent it to be analysed a week ago and since than i have noticed that her digestion has improved. Most of her droppings look quite normal so i am not sure if i should give her this treatment now. I have been giving her probiotics and additional vitamins in her water.
Also, i am a bit confused cause her analysis says she is positive for e.coli but it also says that is it "physiological microflora", which, as far as i know, should be there normally?
The vet that sent it tested and gave me medicine was honest and told me she doesn't know anything about birds and all that is advice from another vet she contacted.
Any advice?


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You need to give the budgie the prescribed medication for at least 10 days even if she has already shown improvement.

Please d not give her probiotics until the course of antibiotics has been completed. Doing so can negate the effectiveness of the medication for elimination of the e-coli bacterial.*


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Thank you. I will give her medicine then. I was told to give it to her for 5 day?
Is it okay i keep giving her probiotics after the treatment? 
Should i keep on giving her vitamins or should i stop that too for the course of the treatment?


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Give her the medication for the duration of the five day period for which it was prescribed.

If the medication is being put in her water, then hold off on any vitamin supplements and pro biotics until the course of antibiotics has been completed.

Best wishes!*


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Can someone help be calculate correct dosage of the medicine cause i think the vet told me wrong.
So in the medicine instructions there is a formula to calculate correct dosage.
The formula is: (3.1mg colistin /kg x weight of bird in kg) / ( daily dosage of water bird drinks in L) and you get how much mg of product you put in a Liter of water. 
So if i put that her weight is around 45g and she drink about 3mL of water a day I get that her dosage is around 50mg/L which is so far less than what vet said and he said i put one teaspoon in 3L of water. 
Please advise


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I recommend that you call the vet back and ask them to ensure you know the correct dosage of medication for your budgie.

They are the ones that should provide that information and should have no problem rechecking what they told you.*


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Yeah, the vet there didn't know, she told me so herself. She called another vet to ask but those are not avian vets cause there aren't any here. And the medicine isn't for budgies but for chicken cause we don't have any registered medicine for parrots. So there isn't much help from our vets.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Using your formula below I come up with 46.5 mg of medication for 1 liter of water.*


----------



## Aithusa (Oct 20, 2014)

Thank you FaeryBee that is somewhere around what i came to too. I will try with this smaller dosage and see if she gets better. Maybe after 5 days have her tested again.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*That sounds like a good plan.
Let me know how things progress.*


----------

