# Dry Retching that appears different from crop adjusting?



## BlueBirdNYC (Aug 26, 2016)

This retching motion has stopped but I certainly didn't like seeing it.

Biz has only had pellets today and a small amount of millet, so I'm wondering if he is trying to adjust his crop but it's harder because it's pellets and not seeds?

Or maybe he got a feather stuck in there from preening?

(*the subtle clicking sound, if you hear it on that audio, is from the internal mike on my smartphone camera. Have a new phone on the way in a couple weeks.)



This is a little bit longer. ( I can't get it to load on photobucket. ) Anyone with this link should be able to view it. (Please let me know if you try to view this & can't see it. I'm trying to figure out how dropbox works. Thx!)

He is tired and so he's also beak grinding in this one:

*Video --->https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nleyp5hqwnif4b/20161210_003442.mp4?dl=0


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

The movement your Biz made could have been due to a little piece of food lodged in the throat. When having their meals, sometimes they gorge themselves and by eating so fast the accumulated food will take longer to go down and that neck motion/bobbing can be noticed.

It's good that Biz quickly went back to normal and if possible watch his meal times and see if he does that motion right after eating. If he does it more often then it would be a good idea to have him seen by an avian vet specialist.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I agree with aluz. Unless the behavior continues, Biz probably had something "stuck in his throat".

If the problem persists then seeing an Avian Vet will be in order.*


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## BlueBirdNYC (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks Aluz and FaeryBee for the feedback!  .....I've been keeping an eye on him, & so far no repeat performance. I'll keep on the lookout to make sure it isn't more than him clearing his throat. He seems to be doing well today. Thanks again. . .


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## BlueBirdNYC (Aug 26, 2016)

*And...... it's back. Better lighting this time.*

So this head move hadn't returned until this evening again. Here's a video, a little bit better lighting this time: https://www.dropbox.com/s/apwkwwm4jy9orin/20161213_231440.mp4?dl=0

(*couldn't get this up on photobucket. tried, but it didn't work. maybe because it's over 60 seconds.) Anyone with the link though should be able to watch this, because it's not a private video link. (Even without a dropbox account. Just like YouTube. Please let me know if this isn't working.)

This is only happening later in the evening, and after eating a healthy amount of pellets. (Roudybush Nibbles and Zupreem Fruity, canary sized.)

It goes away after a couple minutes. Biz has been drinking water regularly. He drank water directly after he was done with this odd head movement on this latest video.

I've sent the video link to my Avian Vet to see where we go from here.

I'm wondering if this is just a different type of crop adjusting. (I seem to recall a pet duck that I had when I was a kid that did something similar.) I wonder if he is trying to move pellets down his esophagus.

I've crushed the Roudybush pellets in the past to make them smaller, but he likes the size that they come in and I've watched him eat them and crumble them himself.

Biz seems to nibble at pellets throughout the day, but in the evening he really loads up and seems committed to eating a lot. He keeps going back to the food bowl and you can see he's full in the video.

He's always been a big eater at night. I've seen him gorge on seeds at night to the point there was no way he could fit another one in there (attached pic.) (*Which is part of why he's only allowed a limited amount of seeds.)

This has only started happening since he's been introduced to Roudybush pellets which are larger and harder than the Zupreem. (Even though I used the smallest size, which is Nibbles.)

Otherwise he seems totally fine. He chirps all day and flirts with whichever inanimate object that catches his fancy at the moment. (the post on his playgym, his multi-branch perch, his swing, my hand, the bird in my big mirror that I keep trying to cover up but he keeps finding the part that's not blocked, a plastic ball, etc.) All day long he's flirting, head bobbing, hopping around in the mating dance... or he's sleeping. One or the other.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*That really doesn't look like either dry-retching or repeated adjusting of the crop to me.

It actually appears to be more of a contented head-bobbing action.

I'll be interested to know what your Avian Vet has to say about it.*


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

It looks to me as if he is trying to bring something up and can't or that he may have a bit of reflux going on. I will also be interested in knowing what the vet says. Maybe the pellets don't agree with him or he is stuffing himself so full there is no more room and it caused this type of action.


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## BlueBirdNYC (Aug 26, 2016)

FaeryBee said:


> *That really doesn't look like either dry-retching or repeated adjusting of the crop to me.
> 
> It actually appears to be more of a contented head-bobbing action.
> 
> I'll be interested to know what your Avian Vet has to say about it.*


Thank you for taking a look at the video, I appreciate it a lot. ...He wasn't that helpful. He pretty much cited a laundry list of things that it could be (like the whole encyclopedia and included regurgitation to an object of affection. But that's, typically, not what that looks like with this budgie. ...Also on this list were things where vomiting is a symptom, but this isn't vomiting either.) He said to keep watching him to see how often this is happening (so far twice in a week)... and if it keeps up, he needs to be seen in person and tested.

Which was a reasonable answer to a degree, and what I was already thinking, but it wasn't_ that_ helpful of a response, ultimately. I'd been meaning to shop around for other avian vet options, because while I like this one in some ways, and he seems knowledgable and detailed, there were a couple things he has said to me in that past that seemed a tiny bit "off" but I overlooked them. So I'm going to see what I can find in terms of options to have a long-haul avian vet relationship. He may be the one ultimately, but it was on my to-do list to look around.

.... I hear you.... there is a part of me that is wondering if there's a behavioral element to this vs. physical. Both times it was later at night... a little bit on the too late side where he probably shouldn't still be up. I wonder if being very tired or exhausted is a factor. Also, he was on his favorite perch, which he has started regurgitating to... and so I'm going to rearrange the cage.

He hasn't done it today and he ate a lot of pellets for breakfast. (And then later devoured lots of kale.)

Everything else seems fine... droppings, energy level, appetite, drinking water, lots of chirping (he's so vocal. _All_ day.), lots of playing and chewing toys. He's so cute. He is getting more handsome as his pin feathers are going away, but it's amazing that he still has a lot on his head. Mostly underneath. He keeps losing feathers ( a tail feather yesterday, & lots of the cute little stripey ones.) He will have worked hard to look good when his molt is all said and done.  )

His weight is 32 1/2 grams, up from 31 1/2 grams about 6 weeks ago. I weigh him about once a week or every other, in the morning, and his weight has remained consistent.

I'm going to keep a close eye on him, & will make an appointment if he does this move again. I might just go ahead and do that regardless; at the least I'm going to research all of my avian vet options again today. In the past I'd located one but the reviews were questionable & not so good; and there's another but it's somewhat far away.



Cody said:


> It looks to me as if he is trying to bring something up and can't or that he may have a bit of reflux going on. I will also be interested in knowing what the vet says. Maybe the pellets don't agree with him or he is stuffing himself so full there is no more room and it caused this type of action.


Hi Cody. Thank you for looking at the video. I'm so appreciative of everyone's thoughts & insights. ... Is reflux a thing with budgies? ... I guess that could mean irritation/inflammation somewhere.

To your other point, he can be a pretty voracious eater, and if he's not chewing those Roudybush pellets well enough, they're much harder than the Zupreem which I think dissolve and would pass more easily. ... I have wondered if the consistency of the pellets is a problem for him. Which is a shame because he really likes them.

I've always wished that there were more choices in extra small pellets because that's what Biz likes. Harrison's superfine are small, but he doesn't like that formula and won't eat them. Perhaps I'll try that again.

Thanks...! :cobalt: :cobalt: :cobalt:


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I don't know which size you are currently using but Roudybush has "mini pellets" as well as "crumbles" 
(The crumbles are even smaller than the minis and are basically crushed pellets)*


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## BlueBirdNYC (Aug 26, 2016)

FaeryBee said:


> *I don't know which size you are currently using but Roudybush has "mini pellets" as well as "crumbles"
> (The crumbles are even smaller than the minis and are basically crushed pellets)*


I have something called "Nibles" (they spell it that way actually)... and I believe they assured me those were the smallest. It's hard to tell on their site. I will write them again.

(Ok, I just went to the site again, and it seems as if they're presenting Nibles as the smallest size. See attached pic.)

Biz crunches them into a powder. I think he eats half and leaves the other half behind to a powder that remains in his dish.

Hopefully, this is just that he is overfeed himself sometimes or eating lazily (just shoving too much food in there) and perhaps this only happens when it's late and he's tired. That's my hope.

My other hope is that I never see him do this funky thing again.


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## BlueBirdNYC (Aug 26, 2016)

*I asked Roudybush for their opinion, here's what they said...*

I sent my video of Biz doing his odd move to Roudybush, because I thought perhaps they would have a unique perspective. Given that they are experts on budgies eating pellets, and are viewing it through that lens ... perhaps they may have unique insights.

Here is their response:

<< Please see below for a response from our nutritionist:

_Actually this looks like the behavior birds exhibit when they are feeding chicks or mates. I don't know how old this bird is, but it may be looking at the owner as a mate and exhibiting sexual behavior. This happens fairly often with budgies. Sometimes they will perch on the owner's shoulder and try to feed the owner's ear. That would be nothing to worry about unless you find the behavior to be a problem for you. _ >>

Perhaps this is the case. I just don't know. Normally when he does an affectionate form of regurgitation, it's during the day and he's very excited and chirping. He has done it to my hand before (and pretty much everything else in the room on those excited days.) But, this was very late at night when he was exhausted, so maybe he looks different when he's tired.

I don't know, but so far he hasn't repeated this movement. Fingers crossed he doesn't do it again.  [ B/c it is worrisome. ]

I should add that Roudybush customer service was great to take the time to share their feedback, and I like the brand a lot. Biz really loves the pellets and it's a great relief to know he is faithfully eating pellets as his primary food source.


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