# flaky cere



## sdodo (Jun 7, 2016)

So, I decided to start a separate thread for Max, the newest edition to the household. He is in quarantine right now, and we have an appointment for the vet.
Here is a regular picture of him.







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He has been with us or little over a week. He had a wellness check with the vet last week and it was noted that he is under weight. Now after all the things that happened with Kiger I am weighing Max daily. He came to us at 
33g, he was 31g at the vet and now hovers between 30 and 31g. So that's concerning on its own. Then after looking at pictures of budgies here I got to thinking that his cere wasn't normal...so after some research I am terrified.







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This is the best pic I could get of his cere. 
Now he was a stray before he eventually came into our lives, and I think he is molting...he has less pin fathers on his head now then when I got him but this is my first adventure with molting so I am unsure. I am fairly confident he is a he, and he has been separate from Kiger this entire time, since we know Kiger has coodies. The weight loss is the other super concerning thing. 
He is a seedaholic, since its only been a week I haven't really been able to try changing things up. I am also waiting to get more pellets. My point being I don't know if he would even touch egg food. He does have high potency mash in his seed mix...for whatever good that is doing. He is eating...but his poops are so much bigger then Kigers its tough for me to say how much he is eating. There are fewer but larger droppings.
So...we see the vet Saturday. I think my biggest fear is to hear that its cancer...I just don't know and my Google foo has failed me.
-deep breath- TB folk, talk to me about what you see in the pics. I'm not looking for a diagnosis, just opinions from more experienced budgie owners then myself on when to be alarmed.


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

Budgies can moult the old skin of their ceres and the flakiness you see is just that. As to the darker little spot on the right side of the cere, that can also be old skin (which is soiled) in the process of being shed.
I see no signs of mites on Max.

At this point there is no reason to be overly concerned and given the fact he's been with you for less than two weeks, it's still a bit premature to think he has problems in keeping the weight. He is still adjusting to his new home and most likely once he gets more comfortable, he will start to eat more and put on the needed weight.
If you think he is not keen on eating fresh foods, you can at least have an extra food bowl with store bought (dry) egg food. This is a great supplement which is highly nutritious and Max may be more receptive to trying it out instead of the home made egg food.

Good luck!


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## Sassy (Aug 24, 2014)

Poor little man. Yes, looks to be an adult male. A very pretty boy! 

On the weight loss. I'm wondering if, since you've only had him a week, and he's being handled daily for a weigh in, if it could be stress that's causing the loss? Especially since you said he was a stray, who know what he's been through. It's just a thought. I would back off on handling as much as possible, though I know you still need to keep an eye on his weight. 

For food... Getting an adult to sample new things can take some time. Keep trying, keep exposing him to lots of yummy stuff. Yes, you will throw away a lot, but then, you don't have to offer a huge quantity to him at each feeding either. Try it in all different ways: big chunks hanging from the bars or on a "kebob", chopped, finely diced, pureed, steamed and cooled. One of my budgies LOVES steamed squash, sweet potatoes, green beans and carrots. True, raw hold more nutritional value, but lightly steamed to soften is still good. Fresh Kale or Romaine lettuce, damp from washing, hung from the bars or placed on the freshly cleaned cage bottom tend to be winners. Soaked seed or sprouts can be real winners too. Organic Wheatgrass can be very enticing. 

Please keep us updated on his progress. Hopefully this week will see him start to gain weight.


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

I agree with the rest of the advice  :hug: 

Other than the fact that he's stressed and in need of a better diet, he looks perfectly fine, as does his cere. Flaking of the skin on the cere, as mentioned, is perfectly normal  

He's beautiful, congratulations!  

Let us know how the vet visit goes :thumbsup:


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## sdodo (Jun 7, 2016)

Thank you everyone!
I feel like a bad budgi mommy but I'm not sure what to think with stress, weight loss and Max being so new to the household. I want to believe that I am just being paranoid, that the weight loss is because of all the change, but after everything with Kiger its hard for me to just shrug the weight loss off as stress. There are behavior changes. He surprised me by liking millet sprigs (Kiger appears to not recognize them as food...) and I've been leaving one in his cage and he doesn't touch it. He was playing with the toys he had with him a day or two after he came home, but now he mainly goes between his preferred perch and his food and water dishes. He does sing, differently from Kiger but that's expected.
My uncertainty I think comes from how so much could mean just stress or sick or both. So to be on the safe side I will still take him back to the vet. The weight thing is still a bit concerning. He was right around 29-30g (leaning toward 29...) He is eating, he will eat from my hand and I see the seed husks he leaves behind in his dish...-sigh-
So questions,
What is the difference between tail wag and tail fanning? I know a wag is good, fanning is bad but I cant find any means of telling them apart...
should I be doing out of cage time at this point?
Im am curious with this but what is Max's color mutation, and is it possible for a American budgie to be larger size wise? The two are kept separate but there is a noticeable size difference between them(cant say how much but max is bigger over all).
With kiger also molting I assume his Cere will shed as well right, maybe...no?


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Max is a very handsome boy. Regarding tail fanning, I have never seen my budgies fan their tails at me I have only seen it at times when they are preening. However, I have two Linnies that will fan their tails at me to show that they are not happy with what I am doing and they also fan their tails during an exam at the vet. They spread open their tails feathers resembling a fan.


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

When wagging, the length of the tail will not spread outwards.
Here is an example of a harmless tail fanning during a preening session, you can see the third budgie's tail feathers spread apart.
DSCF4075 by aluz391, on Flickr

A "negative" tail fanning the secondary tail feathers will not spread as much as i the photo and this is a quick act to let the intruder know to back off.

Yes, there can be variations in size even for the smaller pet type budgies, the size is determined by the budgie's genetic heritage (the parentage).
Your Max is a sky blue opaline budgie.

Since Max is very new to you, is not tame and is still in the process of settling in, it's best to not yet to allow him out of cage time and to focus on building up his strength by giving him a good diet to promote weight gain.

The cere can moult at different times, it's not strictly when the budgie is moulting the feathers. Budgies will moult their feathers more often than their ceres.


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## sdodo (Jun 7, 2016)

Thank you!
So (stupid) question, If I wanted to make birdie bread in a muffin tin do I need to be concerned about the coating affecting the bread? 
Also (another stupid question sorry...) I'm under the belief that with Max being so new, he wouldn't see me as a flock member and would not show interest in new and diffrent food even if I played it up to be the most AMAZING THING EVER! Am I thinking along the right line here? Should I just place food on a paper towel on the bottom of his cage and hope his foraging instinct will kick in? (this does kinda apply to Kiger as well. Since the little stinker is almost done with meds and doing better I need to work on getting him back on a better diet.)


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