# Worried about my male budgie's cere turning brown



## Rextos

my male budgie is about 5.5 years old, i 100% know he is a male, been to the vet for yearly check ups, I give him bottled water (Reverse osmosis with no added stuff) cuttlebone, Harrisons pellets and Dr Harvey's seed.

I notice last few days or so his cere seems to be turning brown. I hear its a sign of testical cancer for this to happen to males and their bodies not producing hormones properly!!!!

I am freaking out, I had this budgie for all these years and pretty spent all day every day with him and if he dies Idk what I will do. Also I am so angry because there is only 1 aviary vet near me and she isn't in today and she is booked until TUESDAY, but they said if I call tomorrow morning first thing I MAY be able to get in on an emergency care appointment....FREAKING OUT!!! Also it's like 5 degrees F outside and just taking him in the car is a huge risk!!

Otherwise they closed saturday and sunday, i can try to get an emergency appointment on monday, or ill have to wait til tuesday.

What should I do? What do you guys think?

Otherwise he is active and singing like normal


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## PoukieBear

I'm sorry to hear that your little one may be sick. The best you can do right now is to keep him comfortable, and get to your vet as soon as you can.

When you take him in, put him in a small travel cage or carrier, or even a small box if you don't have the others. Wrap a towel or blanket around the box to keep any old drafts out, and warm your car before heading out.


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## Cody

When a male's cere turns brown this is known as feminizing because there is too much estrogen being produced, sometimes by a tumor.
If the regular vet that he sees is not an avian vet or a vet with a great deal of experience with birds it would be best in this situation to find a vet that is an avian vet. I had a bird years ago with this issue, you may find that the vet will want to x-ray him at some point. A common treatment for this are injections of Lupron and anti inflammatory meds. Please keep us posted after the vet visit.


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> When a male's cere turns brown this is known as feminizing because there is too much estrogen being produced, sometimes by a tumor.
> If the regular vet that he sees is not an avian vet or a vet with a great deal of experience with birds it would be best in this situation to find a vet that is an avian vet. I had a bird years ago with this issue, you may find that the vet will want to x-ray him at some point. A common treatment for this are injections of Lupron and anti inflammatory meds. Please keep us posted after the vet visit.


Thanks yeah i will update after the vet visit. My vet is an avian vet and I've seen her before and she is really smart and knows her stuff so I have faith she will do a good job, I'm just annoyed that it's so difficult to get an appointment right now! Tomorrow morning I'm gonna start calling them from like 5 minutes before they open and just light their phones up and hopefully I'll be the first one to get through and I can get in on her urgent care slot which is first come first serve


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## Cody

Rextos said:


> Thanks yeah i will update after the vet visit. My vet is an avian vet and I've seen her before and she is really smart and knows her stuff so I have faith she will do a good job, I'm just annoyed that it's so difficult to get an appointment right now! Tomorrow morning I'm gonna start calling them from like 5 minutes before they open and just light their phones up and hopefully I'll be the first one to get through and I can get in on her urgent care slot which is first come first serve


I can sympathize about the appointment availability, about a month ago I woke up to a vomiting bird, thankfully the vet saw him that morning, I have another that has to have his beak trimmed every 3 weeks so I booked appointments for the whole year :001_rolleyes:


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## Rextos

I went to the vet. She says its testicular cancer. However she says the tumor is so small she cannot feel it with her finger yet and for now it's best to just keep doing all the things I'm doing and keep an eye on him and maybe check back every 6 months or so or if he starts to look like he is suffering. Because for now there is no sign of any other infection and he is still acting the same, only difference is the cere color. 

There isn't really anything else you can do because even if I opted for surgery I would have to go to a big hospital and it would cost thousands and it would be so risky that it's arguably better to not even do it and after all that assuming he survived the procedure, the tumor could come right back! Otherwise there aren't really any solid treatments for this. Everything is pretty hit or miss with risks.

She says this happens because of pet stores inbreeding but also because in nature it is a population control where some male budgies will get this to keep them from breeding.

I been reading a lot online and I've read about iodine, knotwood and dandelion powder. She says she doesn't recommend I use iodine, maybe because I'm using harrisons pellets, she doesn't know about knotwood but she says dandelion powder should be okay so I'm gonna buy some and add it to the food. I too am a bit hesitant to get knotwood cos it seems all the knotwood i can find online is like tea leaves grown in china, so maybe I think the dandelion powder is a better plan!

Anything else you guys can recommend?

thanks


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## Rextos

Feeling sad and I want to cry every time I see my budgie knowing he has cancer :crying2:


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## Cody

Rextos said:


> Feeling sad and I want to cry every time I see my budgie knowing he has cancer :crying2:


I understand how you feel as I have been in the same situation. :hugid you discuss Lupron injections for your bird with the vet, that is a common treatment for this condition and although not a cure it can help.


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> I understand how you feel as I have been in the same situation. :hugid you discuss Lupron injections for your bird with the vet, that is a common treatment for this condition and although not a cure it can help.


Yeah I asked about Lupron since you mentioned it but she said as of right now she can't feel the tumor and would rather just wait for now. And also the Lupron injections will cost thousands of dollars and may not even help!

You said you had a bird with this issue and you gave him Lupron? What ended up happening?


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## Cody

Lupron injections should not cost thousands of dollars, at least not in the United States, where are you located? The tumor will likely never get large enough to feel but it may be able to be seen on an x-ray. In addition to the cere on my bird turning brown he also had a problem with his left leg as the tumor was pressing on the spinal nerves to the leg and would cause his leg to twitch and get stuck in odd positions. He was started on a course of Lupron injections as well as daily doses of Metacam. This helped to reduce the leg issues which eventually cleared up for the most part with just a twitch once in a while. The Lupron may help to shrink the tumor and the Metacam reduces inflammation so any internal swelling is reduced. My bird was treated for 3 years with a good quality of life before he passed away. As with any treatment the sooner it is started the better.


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## justmoira

Anecdote: When my girl was getting her Lupron injections (for chronic egg laying) it was $40 per injection, and I believe it was every two weeks to start then once a month. I'm in Canada but I don't see how it could be that much more expensive elsewhere.


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> Lupron injections should not cost thousands of dollars, at least not in the United States, where are you located? The tumor will likely never get large enough to feel but it may be able to be seen on an x-ray. In addition to the cere on my bird turning brown he also had a problem with his left leg as the tumor was pressing on the spinal nerves to the leg and would cause his leg to twitch and get stuck in odd positions. He was started on a course of Lupron injections as well as daily doses of Metacam. This helped to reduce the leg issues which eventually cleared up for the most part with just a twitch once in a while. The Lupron may help to shrink the tumor and the Metacam reduces inflammation so any internal swelling is reduced. My bird was treated for 3 years with a good quality of life before he passed away. As with any treatment the sooner it is started the better.


Okay good to know. For now she says I should wait because he is still acting normal right now and the only symptom is the brown cere and later we can use treatments to manage his pain. Do you think that is a good plan? What should I do right now? I can't find any other avian vets near me and she is a good one i have seen her for many years. She said for now I should just wait and if he starts acting different or in pain I should bring him in, otherwise she wants to check him again in 6 months.

@justmoira okay good to know, maybe i was confused with something else

Also you guys know anything about dandelion powder? i see people talk about it on the internet but it all comes back to 1 post here on talkbudgies and i cant find any other reference for it and im wondering if maybe the poster was just BSing cos her pics dont show the budgie ever having a brown cere and it seems too good to be true....


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## Cody

I am not a vet but I don't know why one would wait to begin a treatment until things get worse. Knowing what the issue is I would not wait 6 months for a recheck, I would probably recheck in 3 months, sooner if any new symptoms appear. I tried dandelion root powder, it did not seem to make a difference but there is really no way to be sure as that was not the only treatment he was getting.


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## Rextos

I feel like the person who posted about the dandelion powder was lying. The only source I can find online about dandelion powder helping budgie cancer is posts made by her and other people referencing her posts on various forums on the internet. In all the pictures she has posted her budgie's cere is blue, but we are supposed to just believe her when she says the cere was as brown as a female but turned back to blue because of dandelion powder.

I mean heck I hope she was right and dandelion powder will help my budgie, but it seems very fishy to me. From my experience these naturopath/alternative medicine type things are pretty much always BS.


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## Cody

Rextos said:


> I feel like the person who posted about the dandelion powder was lying. The only source I can find online about dandelion powder helping budgie cancer is posts made by her and other people referencing her posts on various forums on the internet. In all the pictures she has posted her budgie's cere is blue, but we are supposed to just believe her when she says the cere was as brown as a female but turned back to blue because of dandelion powder.
> 
> I mean heck I hope she was right and dandelion powder will help my budgie, but it seems very fishy to me. From my experience these naturopath/alternative medicine type things are pretty much always BS.


A controlled study would have to be done in order to really prove if the dandelion has any merit and as far as I know that has never been done.


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## FaeryBee

*I give my birds knotgrass and you can find it on Amazon.

Organic Knotgrass*


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## Rextos

FaeryBee said:


> *I give my birds knotgrass and you can find it on Amazon.
> 
> Organic Knotgrass*


Hey thank you for sharing the link! How much do you give them? Do you also give them dandelion powder? They dont seem to like the dandelion powder and i feel bad giving it to them, wondering if maybe i should just stop it? I saw that knotgrass on amazon and seems most people use it as a tea and it's been decaffeinated which i assume means its been processed a lot, can it be given to budgies? Do you just sprinkle some of the knotgrass on top of their food?


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## FaeryBee

*You do not have to give the knotgrass as a "tea". You can simply give the knotgrass to your budgie in a separate dish.

I've used dandelion powder in the past and simply sprinkled it over their food. I didn't really see that it did much. 
I believe that clean dandelion leaves (organic with NO pesticides or fertilizers) would probably be better accepted.

You can buy "herb salads" which are dried herbs and plants that contain dandelion and chickweed.

Take a look at this thread and specifically the link within it on knotgrass if you haven't seen it yet:

Holistic Remedies to help with Tumors*


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## Rextos

Thank you Faery. His Knotgrass will come in the mail today.

Sadly it's getting worse :sad: It pains me to see him like this :crying2: But at least he still seems happy and curious and active. I hope I can face my death with the same strength as you Buddy :crying2:


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## FaeryBee

*Please let us know how things progress.
Sending lots of love, prayers and healing energy for Buddy. :hug:*


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## Rextos

Hey guys I don't want to get too excited or false hopes, but I think the knotgrass is helping! As you can see some bits on the cere that were brown in the previous pic are turning blue i think!! I keep telling him to eat it its okay, it's not grass it's knotgrass!!!


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## FaeryBee

*I have to say that I think the cere looks better in the second picture also! 
Keep giving Buddy the knotgrass and I'll be looking forward to your next update. :hug:*


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## Rextos

Looks like we are back to blue! Should I keep giving him the knotgrass for the rest of his life or what? I wonder if its cos of the knotgrass or if its cos of spring making his body produce more testosterone which is making his cere blue? Cos before it was brown then it started to turn blue as i posted the pic, and then it started turning brown again, but then it became blue again

Though i figure the knotgrass must be doing something cos even with spring hormones if he had a tumor on his testes it would affect his testosterone, but it seems to be getting more blue and he is back to screeching my ears off


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## Cody

Great news, he's looking good.


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> Great news, he's looking good.


Thanks Cody! How long did your male budgie with testicular cancer live after his diagnosis?


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## Cody

Rextos said:


> Thanks Cody! How long did your male budgie with testicular cancer live after his diagnosis?


Almost 2 years.


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## Rextos

Well buddy's nose is turning brown again just like I posted in the picture on the first page  If the nose is more brown does that mean the tumor is bigger? Should I keep giving him the knotgrass? they really dont seem to like the knotgrass and if its not going to make a difference i dont want to make him eat stuff that he doesnt like in his final days.

though right now he is still chirpy and affectionate and does not seem to be in pain


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## Cody

The cere turning brown again is due to hormonal changes, I would not assume it means the tumor is getting bigger. I would ask the vet again about the Lupron injections and if she still does not want to give it I would get a second opinion as that is pretty standard treatment for hormonal issues.


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## FaeryBee

*I agree with Cody - I believe a second opinion is definitely in order with regard to the Lupron injections.
Continue putting the knotgrass in the cage. He will only eat it if he wants to.*


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## Rextos

Thanks guys, so I called my vet office and the lady on the phone said they don't carry Lupron because of it being expensive and sadly NO vet near me does it unless I drove to like Madison or one of the college hospitals far away. But she mentioned that they sometimes do deslorelin injections in place of Lupron. IE: it can help with egg binding? You guys know about deslorelin? However this was a nurse on the phone and she said she will ask the Dr who is an avian specialist.


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## Cody

I find this to be an unusual answer, where are you located?


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> I find this to be an unusual answer, where are you located?


Minnesota


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## Cody

Try doing a search with this link to the Association of Avian Vets and see if you can find one near you and give them a call about the Lupron. MN and IL where I am are not far apart and I have a hen that gets Lupron for egg laying , not expensive and no problem with availability https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=5197


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> Try doing a search with this link to the Association of Avian Vets and see if you can find one near you and give them a call about the Lupron. MN and IL where I am are not far apart and I have a hen that gets Lupron for egg laying , not expensive and no problem with availability https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=5197


thanks cody! I called a bunch of places and am waiting for some replies. I was able to reach Valley View Pet hospital in Minneapolis and the avian specialist there said that Lupron would not do anything to help testicular cancer. I must be having some really bad luck with vets. The others I wasn't able to reach and left messages so am waiting to hear back from them. Though tbh on the website they said it was Lawrence Tholl, but he was out of the office and the secretary asked another lady doctor who she said was also an avian specialist and she's the one who said lupron wouldn't help, but maybe since she isn't on the website she doesn't know?


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## Cody

It is my understanding that the Lupron is not a cure but more of a control on the hormones. Take a look at the comments section at the bottom of the page in this link,





Testicular Tumors and Therapy by Dr. Reavill - Bird Vet


The BIRD Clinic - Bird Vet Dr. Larry Nemetz Avian Vet Orange CA specializes in treating pet birds throughout the US located in Southern California.



www.thebirdclinic.com


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> It is my understanding that the Lupron is not a cure but more of a control on the hormones. Take a look at the comments section at the bottom of the page in this link,


ah okay! I finally found a doctor and got an appointment, its a 2 hour drive and I need to wait 3 weeks for the appointment, but better than nothing I guess!


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## Cody

Did you explain the issue to them, would hate for you to make that long trip only to be told the same thing you have already heard.


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## Rextos

Cody said:


> Did you explain the issue to them, would hate for you to make that long trip only to be told the same thing you have already heard.


yeah i did and she double checked with the doctor. though tbh i am a bit hesitant because i dont like the idea of sticking a needle in such a tiny bird and in general i dont like the idea of messing around with hormones and i am worried that it will either make things worse or not do anything, but if you guys think its best to get the lupron i will get it


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## Cody

Everyone's experience may be different so don't go by what we say because the results may be different for your bird, we want to make you aware of options that are out there and for your bird to get the best treatment available. It never hurts to get multiple opinions from several vets, some vets have much more experience with birds than others and may have treated some conditions more than others.


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## FaeryBee

*Cody is correct. The final decision on how to proceed needs to be made by you once you've gathered all the information you can about the condition and treatment options.*


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