# Budgie Stubborn Crop Infection



## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

I have a 7 year old budgie who was diagnosed with a crop infection last October and I've had him on Baytril for several rounds and it just doesn't completely clear up. Had him evaluated twice. Bought him a heated perch, also now have him mostly in a towel covered box with a perch, food and water and heating pad underneath to keep him warm.

He was looking better this morning but then I let him out to socialize with the other budgies and he started bending over again and looking quite weak. He and my others get probiotics daily, along with Harrison's pellets, vitamins, immune support powder, the works. The cage also has a heated panel on it so at night it's nice and warm in there.

I took him off the Baytril for several weeks as catching him 2 times a day was freaking out him and the other birds . . . and he seemed sort of alright but then a molt happened and he got weak again so now he's been on it again for 10 days and he still seems not cured of this.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them. My avian vet is great but she is so overloaded due to the pandemic, it's been impossible to get a call back these days. Here's a photo of Citrus.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I understand about an overloaded vet and am experiencing the same thing with mine. I am assuming that back in October a crop swab was done and a gram stain test run on it, is that correct, has he had any blood work done recently such as a CBC? If not, then that should be done and maybe even if it was done it should be repeated. I would also have a test run on the droppings. When you do not give the meds for the full lenght of time prescribed, it may allow the infection to flare up again because all the organisms were not killed. Although Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic it perhaps is not the best one for this particular infection and will not do anything if the problem is fungal. I would not keep him in a box, I would get a small cage that can be used as a hospital cage and keep him there, you can still keep him warm in it, I don't think a box is the best choice. One of my birds was getting repeated crop infections and was vomiting and it turned out that he had an Avian Gastric Yeast infection and antibiotics are not effective against that.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm sorry to hear that Citrus is doing so poorly. He certainly looks ill in the picture you posted.
Cody has given you excellent advice. 
Are there any other Avian Vets in your area that you could try?

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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

I have one of the top avian vets in the country. I am also totally out of work and cannot afford to pay additional vets. I take five star care of my birds. I've already spent over $300 on this little one. What I was hoping for was advice from another budgie owner here.


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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

Citrus has had two crop swabs. Each more than one month a part. First one had bacteria AND yeast. Cleared up the yeast but the bacteria stayed. I put him back on the Baytril a little over a week ago and he started chirping again now and then. he is weak but can fly a little . . . it's been such a long journey for him I'm thinking maybe I should put him down.


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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

Cody said:


> I understand about an overloaded vet and am experiencing the same thing with mine. I am assuming that back in October a crop swab was done and a gram stain test run on it, is that correct, has he had any blood work done recently such as a CBC? If not, then that should be done and maybe even if it was done it should be repeated. I would also have a test run on the droppings. When you do not give the meds for the full lenght of time prescribed, it may allow the infection to flare up again because all the organisms were not killed. Although Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic it perhaps is not the best one for this particular infection and will not do anything if the problem is fungal. I would not keep him in a box, I would get a small cage that can be used as a hospital cage and keep him there, you can still keep him warm in it, I don't think a box is the best choice. One of my birds was getting repeated crop infections and was vomiting and it turned out that he had an Avian Gastric Yeast infection and antibiotics are not effective against that.


I gave the meds for more than one month had him checked twice and the bacteria remained.

The box is plastic and especially works for birds and was recommended by and sold to me by my vet. It has a good natural wood perch with branches in it. I clean it 2 - 3 times a day. Yes he has a yeast infection along with the bacteria but the yeast is gone now.

Have not done blood work. Thinking maybe he's had enough as it's been over 3 months of hell now.


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## NAnlezarck (Sep 18, 2021)

Wow! Sounds so much like our little man! Rudy has had a persistent issue with what we believe to be AGY & crop infection due to being accidentally poisoned by our pest control guy.. We’ve had multiple stains done and only found a singular rod of yeast/AGY and that was months ago; we are also experiencing avian vet waits as well and what we’ve been doing to slow down his terrible ongoing issue is ACV water every second day then every third day some pedialyte until we can get an appointment. We’ve had this issue for almost 12months. We haven’t given him any medicine that the vet hasn’t given us and let me say it’s so difficult to give them orally when we have to.. 

I’ll keep you posted once we get to an appointment and get some much needed results. In the meantime you seem to be really doing the best you can so keep going! Don’t give up because I am sure he won’t give up on you.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Jazzwoman said:


> I gave the meds for more than one month had him checked twice and the bacteria remained.
> 
> The box is plastic and especially works for birds and was recommended by and sold to me by my vet. It has a good natural wood perch with branches in it. I clean it 2 - 3 times a day. Yes he has a yeast infection along with the bacteria but the yeast is gone now.
> 
> Have not done blood work. Thinking maybe he's had enough as it's been over 3 months of hell now.


If it was my bird, I would not give up, how about having a culture done on the bacteria, it may be that whatever bacteria is there needs something other than Baytril to completely eradicate it, or if you do not want to have a culture done at least ask the vet to try a different antibiotic.


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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

Already had two cultures! I have a great avian vet, Dr. Marjory McMillan of Windhover in Walpole, Massachusetts. She is very well known and respected. 

But with the pandemic she isn't able to do calls now; so much stress on all medical offices including vets. Staff out, people can't go inside with their pets . . . it's a mess. 

What is ACV water? Apple Cider Vinegar? I've been doing Pedialite along with the Baytril and also he gets Gastrafate a half hour before the Baytril because he vomits otherwise. I have him mostly in a bird travel box with heating pad under and covered with a cloth to keep him warm. But I do let him visit the other birds twice a day and he eats well and looks fine for a few minutes and then looks sick again, bending over like in the photo. 

He is not fluffed but all four of my birds molted about 10 days ago and that of course was an additional stress on this little one.

I can call the office and see if I can get a different antibiotic but Baytril is broad spectrum I think.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Here is some info on the ACV Apple Cider Vinegar, however I would not give this while you are medicating unless you get the ok from the vet. Baytril is broad spectrum and seems to be the first choice for many bacterial infections but may not always be effective. Did he ever do the bending thing before the crop infection? I looked back at my birds medical records and I found that in one case for a crop infection Cephalexin/Nystatin combo was used which is an antibiotic antifungal combo.


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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

So we tried Cephalexin/Nystatin and he's still sick. I've not given up yet however. I bought a little heat lamp and clamped it onto the hospital box so that he is getting light and heat together. Also giving him probiotics, Pau D'Arco, Immune system booster and Nekton S mixed in with warm Pedialyte. Seems to help but then he vomited again and so I gave him more gastrofate. Trying to fix this naturally now because I've done so many antibiotics, now that I feel he's had it. Wiped out just from having to catch him so much. Poor baby!

Also just received Nekton Q and another probiotic made by Nekton as well....

This morning he seemed better; was chirping a lot and his flying seemed a bit stronger but then by late afternoon he had vomited all over again and was looking pretty sickly.

I'm not sure I can save him but I sure am trying!


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Whenever I hear about a bird with these symptoms repeatedly, I go back to thinking about Avian Gastric Yeast. Because the organism is not always actively shed it cannot always be found when testing for it. The only effective drug for an active AGY infection is Amphotericin B. Do you weigh him, is he losing weight?


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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

Cody said:


> Whenever I hear about a bird with these symptoms repeatedly, I go back to thinking about Avian Gastric Yeast. Because the organism is not always actively shed it cannot always be found when testing for it. The only effective drug for an active AGY infection is Amphotericin B. Do you weigh him, is he losing weight?


Hi, we had him tested for this and it was positive; treated it with meds (I forget which ones) and tested him again and it was negative. So that piece worked. Now he's a mess again today, vomiting up all his food and losing weight. I'm considering putting him down as he's suffering (though not all the time) and it seems quite hopeless.


If you have any advice on how to stop the vomiting (gave him Gastrofate this morning and he threw up all the seeds). I was wondering if I could give him some Pepcid AC diluted in lots of water of course . . .


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Jazzwoman said:


> Hi, we had him tested for this and it was positive; treated it with meds (I forget which ones) and tested him again and it was negative. So that piece worked. Now he's a mess again today, vomiting up all his food and losing weight. I'm considering putting him down as he's suffering (though not all the time) and it seems quite hopeless.


A test that does not show the organism does not necessarily mean that it has been eradicated because it is not always shed. One of the problems with AGY is that relapses can occur along with secondary bacterial infections. Common anti fungal meds do not seem to be effective against it and the Ampho B seems to be the only drug that can successfully treat an active infection, and sometimes even that is not successful.


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## NAnlezarck (Sep 18, 2021)

Jazzwoman said:


> Hi, we had him tested for this and it was positive; treated it with meds (I forget which ones) and tested him again and it was negative. So that piece worked. Now he's a mess again today, vomiting up all his food and losing weight. I'm considering putting him down as he's suffering (though not all the time) and it seems quite hopeless.
> 
> 
> If you have any advice on how to stop the vomiting (gave him Gastrofate this morning and he threw up all the seeds). I was wondering if I could give him some Pepcid AC diluted in lots of water of course . . .


I am by no means a veterinarian nor medically trained but the only thing that seems to stop our little man from vomiting his seed is some freshly squeezed orange juice with pulp and naturally cultured yogurt. Our little one has had ALL the same symptoms as your little one; we found the problem just cycles from good to bad to terribly ill. We also sit in the bathroom with the overhead heat lamps, this seems to help tremendously in combination with the juice and yogurt until we can get an appointment with our avian vet. 

We’ve been on this chaotic journey for almost 12mths... On and off meds then secondary infections occur then disappear for a few months then come again. Our routine/experience/day to day is as follows;

# Reduced seed in bowl and assistance in feeding eg; hold his tray at the height of his chest so he is not bent over which may cause involuntary regurgitation. It’s a little messy and tiring but this certainly helps.
# Wait 10-20mins after he wakes up to offer the morning feed, this helps in case he had a rough night. Water seems to be the only thing our little guy can tolerate after just waking up
# Juice given voluntarily about an hour after wake up and yogurt about 1pm-2pm. If he doesn’t take either at those times we go play or just hang out then try again.
# Avoid feeding fresh vegetables and fruit on the daily; we’ve found that carrot core (cut the outer sides of the carrot so they have access to the softer inner part), lettuce is the best because it’s mostly water based and doesn’t have much sugar/sweetness to them.
# Roll on deodorant, house smells, perfume, strong outdoor winds, cold drafts, laundry detergent.. Basically any smell triggers our little man to involuntarily **** his head back as if he is going to vomit then doesn’t.. This followed by that dumpy looking feeling/sore tummy.
# Entire cage cleaned with F10 (Amazon & EBay sells this) every two-three days, tray for stool gets cleaned everyday. Toys sprayed with F10 also every two-three days. (This helps stop the spread of any type of bacteria).
# We keep a digital kitchen scale on our coffee table to actively take his weight daily. He’s learnt to see this as game.. which helps the cause lol

If I think of anything else, I’ll be sure to share it. Once we get an appointment I’ll update our experience etc. Again, I am not a veterinarian but have advised our avian vet as to what we are doing and have gotten positive feedback. Good luck!


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## sue.auclair99 (Nov 24, 2021)

So here's the latest on little Citrus! I have a friend who is a wildlife veterinarian with whom I consulted and she said that he might have Mega Bacteria or PDD and to get a very high end probiotic. She led me here: 
*http://www.avi-culture-2.com/shop.html* 
And the stuff arrived TODAY, so we'll see what happens. He and my other budgies are eating it up. Good stuff I hope.

There are all new bacterial strains now and some do not react to antibiotics . . . I'll keep you all posted.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I use that product and it is what my avian vet prescribes.


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