# Bald Baby - has anyone experienced this



## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Hi there,
In a recent clutch of 3, the youngest by 3 days has been very slow to develop.
This is him/her 6 days ago at the age of 2 weeks 
Just starting to open his eyes - which seems rather slow. 

This is him/her today at 3 weeks with his siblings that are just 3 & 6 days older.

You can see the black band of follicles on his head that shows he has changed in the last 6 days.
He appears to being fed well by parents but seems too old to have hardly any feathers. 

Has anyone experienced or seen anything like this before? If so did the baby eventually get it's feathers - how long? I'm hoping that he will develop sufficiently before the others fledge as they need to keep him warm.


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## LynandIndigo (Jan 21, 2012)

Wow they are beautiful it's hard to image them being so small like that... But they are so lovely... I am love with them I can't wait to see them a little older..


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## SusanBudgies (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm sorry I can't answer your question regarding the slow development, but I am concerned about its legs. Does it always stand with one leg out to each side? Or can it put its legs underneath him? If he is developing splay legs we can give you advice about that.


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks Lyn and Susan - The baby is fine from a splayed legs point of view. In fact I had treated its oldest sibling for the condition and it was one of the worst cases I have ever seen. One leg was splayed out but the other leg both twisted and splayed and was quite a challenge to correct. I should have taken before and after photos in retrospect!

So..... has anyone experienced such slow development in a chick before?


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

Hoping for the best for that little bird.


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## milipidi (Jan 23, 2013)

I think you will find this chick will fall into the 'failed to thrive' category of babies. I had a similar chick, the youngest of a large clutch, who despite being fed just didn't grow. In the end the parents stopped feeding it and I chose not to hand feed. This was at the 2-3 week mark from memory.

By the way, the siblings are gorgeous.



SusanBudgies said:


> Please contact Lindsey. She will have an opinion.


Please not that it is in fact against forum rules to contact/PM staff, or any member, directly with budgie related questions.

This thread has been flagged, and when Lindsey has the time I am sure she will offer her knowledge to the discussion.


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

As sad and heart wrenching as it sounds I tend to agree with Li in her opinion regarding this chick, if it does survive it will be compromised across all aspects, it's health and stamina, good genetics, and should not be allowed to breed it does reach maturity. Nature and the parents have a way of knowing a lot more than we do sometimes, The other chicks are stunning and look to be well developed and thriving I do feel for this little baby it looks very week and seems to be struggling to survive.


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## Vargur (May 4, 2013)

The reason the chicks develop splayed legs are because they are lacking nutrients. 
My guess is that the hen is plucking the youngest chick. 
What are you feeding them?


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for your support and suggestions. I hope the little one survives but I certainly have my concerns. Like you Li, I unfortunately would not be in the position to hand feed if its mum stops. I have not noticed the mum plucking it at all Elma but will keep an eye out and I will put a perspex door on the nesting box so that I can check for this. She is certainly keeping it well-fed at the moment. The mum spends most of her time on the perch just outside the nesting box except when feeding or at night. 

In regard to food, all my birds get seed mixed with vitamin and nutrient enriched pellets, liquid calcium in their water, fresh vegetables and each cage has cuttlefish and an iodine and calcium bell. In addition, breeding birds get egg and biscuit mixture twice a week. Any nutrient deficiency would be perhaps because the mum is not passing it on - although the splayed legs could also be caused by one of the other theories. 
Rest assured Cathy that I if this bird does survive, it will be trained but never bred.


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Now we have made it to one day short of 4 weeks - here is a picture - feathers are starting to develop slowly but by this age some chicks have started to leave the box - I think this one has a while to go if she makes it.

I believe the little one is probably a girl. Here she is with her siblings - her brother on the left is just 3 days older and the sister on the right older again. The big sister has left the box a couple of times. 


Mum is still feeding and keeping them warm at night.


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## jellyblue (Aug 11, 2010)

The little one is looking better. Great to see her with her brother and sister taking care of her. A beautiful family. Hope she continues to thrive.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I'm SO glad your little one is beginning to improve. 
I pray she will make it and be able to enjoy a long and happy life. It's wonderful that Mum is continuing to care for her and she looks as though she has a good fighting chance at this point. Please keep us updated with regard to her progress. :hug:*


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## Jo Ann (Sep 3, 2011)

*Bald*

Since the chick is beginning to grow, it could be that mom may have plucked the chick. especially if it is the youngest. I suggest increasing the soft food to twice a day and include egg food and extra vitamins to stimulate the hen to produce the liquid in the crop milk. The hen usually feeds the smallest first. If she does not have enough liquid to go around the youngest is short changed.

The crop looks OK and there does not appear to be any gas in the crop. the chick does not look skeletal, all of which would indicate failure to thrive and immanent demise. It appears the chick has a chance.

Try the increased nutrient and soft food. Continue the liquid calcium. This is a great help for mom.. We give all of our parent fed families 2 and sometimes three fresh soft food servings each day and then during weaning reduce to 2 feedings for the chicks and continue to 10 to 12 weeks. At this point they get one soft meal but also lots of dry options available all of the time including millet spray.

this is a critical time for good calcium support. to help prevent weak legs and chest muscles. A chick that does not hold the chest up when in motion should receive a bit more calcium support. I have not seen this in print but observed in our chicks and the change when we give the hen more nutrients for the liquid crop milk. We feel the crop milk stage should get more attention when feeding parents as this sets the stage for later stages.

A tired hen is going to short change the youngest chick. The hen may not show the need but when we see the youngest chick behind, the first thing we do is increase the liquid crop milk resource for the hen as the older chicks can be come more demanding at the time when the youngest is still needing the liquid nutrient. We overload with the understanding that if mom does not need it she will hold back and we will discard 2 to 3 times a day to provide the freshest possible for the youngest.

Nature lets the youngest fall away if hen is stressed. So we try to counter act this before nesting and then add extra meals as called for during feeding. That slow chick is to me a sign that mom needs extra support to produce the highest quality chick. We are in a position to take the stress off the parents as opposed to the stresses on wild parents.

this is our opinion and not a law set in stone. It just works for us. Blessings, and Best wishes for the youngest to catch up and thrive. I hope this give a sense of the thought process behind our process.

Blessings, Jo Ann


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Jo Ann has extensive experience as a breeder and is very knowledgable. I would definitely follow her suggestions.

We are all pulling for your little chick to be as strong and healthy as possible! Best wishes.*


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## Birding (Oct 10, 2013)

Your littlest chick looks like it has come along quite a bit, and it seems that you are doing a great job with it. Your other two babies are adorable as well-- the pictures made my heart melt! Please keep us updated


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## Jonah (Feb 3, 2013)

So glad to see that little one with that much new feather growth. Hopes and prayer's for it's continued health...


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## milipidi (Jan 23, 2013)

I am pleased to see your little one looking so much better. I would definitely follow JoAnnes advice. Hopefully the little one continues to improve and is now on the road to become a gorgeous teen.


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

The chick is a survivor and I hope continues to thrive. She is very lucky to have such a sweet budgie Mummy who is being so attentive. JoAnn has given excellent advice and we al are sending healing and loving thoughts .


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Great explanations and suggestions Jo Ann. Thanks for taking the time. I will certainly follow through on what you have advised. Thanks also to everyone for the on-going support. I hope to be able to continue with the good news updates.


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

OK - the unfortunate latest is that mum has laid another egg today(another drain on her body). I would have normally removed her by now and let dad do the feeding but he never seems to go in the box and I am not sure he will feed them in there. The little one is obviously a long way off fledging. My options:-

Remove mum to a separate cage and destroy the egg and hope that dad does the feeding job - at least with the other siblings feathered they will keep each other warm so that shouldn't be an issue.

Keep mum in the cage (and probably destroy the eggs as they are produced as I have no other pairs on eggs at the moment and don't plan to for several months). 

What do others breeders think?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Is there any way at all that you can take over the feeding of the youngest chick at this point? I think that may be the littlest one's only chance at survival. 

Budgie Hand Feeding And Weaning Guide - Talk Budgies Forums*


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Unfortunately due to work commitments that is not an option.


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## Striker (May 31, 2009)

jak said:


> Unfortunately due to work commitments that is not an option.


You will just have to let nature take it's course if you haven't got time to hand-feed. I've had these 'peanuts' before and all of them turn out to be weak and sickly birds - often succumbing to illness at a few weeks or months after fledging (illness that any other bird could normally shrug off - even the stress of moulting is sometimes too much for the runts). For 4 weeks old that is very under-developed - I'm thinking weak genes or it's just the runt of the clutch. Either way unfortunate but part of breeding animals.


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## milipidi (Jan 23, 2013)

Unfortunately this is the natural cycle as all the chicks should now be fledging. Of the two options I would probably go with removing the eggs. Ensure the hen has lots of access to calcium and hopefully she has lays a small clutch, at any rate the extra time will hopefully give the **** time to step up. He should already be feeding the older chicks and if this is happening you could try removing the hen.


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## Jo Ann (Sep 3, 2011)

*Bald*

This is hard to decide. Striker is correct that the chick will be a peanut and immune response may be weak. I have just brought a clutch thru with hen sitting on egg and feeding. Removing the eggs before the clutch is finished can mess up the hen's hormone cycle. If your hen has a gentle temper try to let her keep feeding. Be sure to keep the liquid calcium in constant and fresh supply as well as other sources of vits in the extra feeding program. This will tell you a lot about the personality of parents under stress. As long as the peanut has started to show positive growth I would follow through.

Even if you do not take on a full hand feeding program consider what many breeders do, which is to give booster support from the chick formula or adult weight formula several times a day as you are able. This will help mom as well as the chick. How many clutch has the hen had this time. Do you want another clutch with these parents right now?

If the chick shows the gaunt appearance It will probably be short lived. If it is just small and you are not running a commercial set up, it would be good experience for you to see how and what your assist does for the survival as there may be a time when such a chick may be very important for you to attempt to save. I have had small hens produce large healthy chicks because the gene history kicks in not unlike in humans with small parents and huge offspring.

If a hen or **** attacks the young, we take it out of the breeding program. I believe this is in part our fault as breeders upsetting natural family structure by removing chicks and hand feeding and not allowing parents to raise young and teach them how to be good budgie parents in the future. I have no scientific proof just experience watching budgie families grow together and when things break down and I am left reviving and helping chicks deal with the emotional trauma of the attack to become outgoing adults. I have a couple of these budgies in the flock and we still have a strong bond as a result of the healing process we went through together. As I type they appear in my mind bringing a smile and warmth in the heart.

Each breeder needs to look at the whole picture and do the best for the strength and quality of the flock going forward. Every time we support the budgie family we are balancing against artificial intervention the causes breakdown family structure in a flock. Blessings. Jo Ann


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## jak (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for all your suggestions Jo Ann. With the exception of first thing in the morning, the chick seems to constantly have more or less a full crop. If anyone is missing out it is the oldest sister who previously had the splayed legs and seems underweight to me. There are just three babies in this clutch and I would definitely supplement the parents feeding if this will help but can you enlarge on this a bit. What is "booster support from the chick formula or adult weight formula?" I was considering using budgie hand rearing (vetafarm neocare with probotics(1 day to weaning)) formula and a syringe or maybe a bent spoon. I have seen a vet crop feed one of my birds once but have no personal experience in this area. Also would you add liquid calcium to the formula or leave that to the parents to pass on? 

I do not want the parents to have another clutch at this point as I would be concerned about the outcome given that two out of three of the offspring had some issue. I plan to leave the mum with two eggs at a time (unless otherwise advised) and will remove and destroy the oldest eggs. As she has laid up to 8 eggs previously, that may provide about two weeks extra for the baby. The mum has previously had babies and eggs at the same time but that was for no longer than a week before the babies fledged. Obviously if at anytime she becomes aggressive towards the baby, I will remove her.


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## milipidi (Jan 23, 2013)

If you can, swap the eggs for dummies. I don't know if marbles would work for this but certainly the little plastic fakes should do the trick. Good luck.


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## Jo Ann (Sep 3, 2011)

*Bald*

The weaning formula will do fine. The Idea is for you to add an extra feeding
To moms efforts. Especially at night and if one of the other chicks needs a little more it would be OK the over night is when they need a top off and in some cases first in AM. Start simple and add if needed. This is a good learning experience. I would not wish it on anyone, use it to increase your skills. If the chick responds well and gains weight it is a win for everyone. The problem with removing eggs is the hen will replace them till she has a full clutch, which is a signal she gets from her body and may vary. After she sets the clutch then after a weak or so you can start removing eggs. Fake eggs or marbles may help.The Idea is she needs to think the clutch is complete. It is good to let them rest. This is a learning experience and demonstrates why experienced breeders suggest that new breeders to do lots of research to be more prepared for challenges that come up. Best wishes, Jo Ann 
Blessings, Jo Ann :budge:


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## SusanBudgies (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm glad to see feathers sprouting. It does appear the hen is a down-plucker. Keep an eye on the chick to make sure the hen does not pluck its feathers, too.

I hope the chick turns out okay.


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## ParrotletsRock (Jun 8, 2009)

milipidi said:


> If you can, swap the eggs for dummies. I don't know if marbles would work for this but certainly the little plastic fakes should do the trick. Good luck.


I have successfully used white regular sized marbles for fake budgie eggs before.


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