# Budgies + Cats in the same household.



## Beetlewiki (2 mo ago)

I...need a little bit of help even after researching just so I don't mess this up.
Recently, my mother gave me two Budgies that weren't being cared for by their previous owner (a kid lost interest in them, stopped feeding them + giving them water, real sad honestly), and me, having looked into Budgie care and wanting them since I was _young_, took them in under my roof.
They are the sweetest little babies, extremely excited and happy and just love to try and watch what my partner and I do constantly.

Now, the issue I'm having is that the pet store these birds were originally from (PetCo) did a full wing clip, even screwed it up to the point where my mother had to fix their clip since they were flapping side to side, rather than straight (she does a partial clip to her birds wings, but never to where it limits the flight fully). Long story short, I have two budgies, and 3 cats, all able to be well taken care for.

We have an iron cage with 1/2 inch thick-ish (not like the thin wire cages you normally get recommended from major pet stores, will be shown in the image), and have been making sure our cats are able to view them, and telling them "no" loudly when they try to climb onto the side of the cage, if they jump onto it, we kick them out of the room, and repeat. So far, we've only had one incident of one cat jumping onto the top of the cage to look outside the window, but not to attack the birds.
Our cats are naturally curious about the Budgies, and stare at them to look, but we're being very vigilant in making sure they're not stressing out the Budgies; any sign of stress means the cats go outside the room and sleep elsewhere.

Now, I don't want to screw anything up, so I'm asking for tips from people who know far more than me to get more insight on how to have my cats and budgies co-exist - yes, this is me asking how to train my cats to not attack the budgies at all, or even lose interest fully just in the possible case of someone forgetting to close the cage door and my budgies climbing out.
While the instinct to pounce and kill is always going to be there, I want my fully indoor cats to understand that these birds are to not be attacked.

Any and all tips are appreciated; I'm very happy to own birds now that I'm an adult, but I want to make sure they are safe.

The images will be in a comment under this because I genuinely don't understand this site I'm so sorry

Edit: To note, the birds are not allowed out while the cats are in here and vice versa; this is to completely ensure their safety.


----------



## Beetlewiki (2 mo ago)




----------



## Sweety's mom (4 mo ago)

Quote: "We have an iron cage with 1/2 inch thick-ish (not like the thin wire cages you normally get recommended from major pet stores, will be shown in the image), and have been making sure our cats are able to view them, and telling them "no" loudly *when they try to climb onto the side of the cage*, if they jump onto it, we kick them out of the room, and repeat."



I'm sure others will respond but OMG, this seems extremely dangerous and unfair to the birds. It's actually unfair to the cats too as they can't be expected to change their nature.


----------



## Beetlewiki (2 mo ago)

Sweety's mom said:


> Quote: "We have an iron cage with 1/2 inch thick-ish (not like the thin wire cages you normally get recommended from major pet stores, will be shown in the image), and have been making sure our cats are able to view them, and telling them "no" loudly *when they try to climb onto the side of the cage*, if they jump onto it, we kick them out of the room, and repeat."
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure others will respond but OMG, this seems extremely dangerous and unfair to the birds.


I should probably clarify, but the metal that surrounds the cage on the bottom - they never try to climb the wires


----------



## Sweety's mom (4 mo ago)

Beetlewiki said:


> I should probably clarify, but the metal that surrounds the cage on the bottom - they never try to climb the wires


Can you try to imagine being a tiny animal in a cage, and a large lion is able to come around your cage all the time, terrifying you constantly? Why would that be ok?


----------



## Beetlewiki (2 mo ago)

Sweety's mom said:


> Can you try to imagine being a tiny animal in a cage, and a large lion is able to come around your cage all the time, terrifying you constantly? Why would that be ok?


I should also clarify that, but they've been keeping a good few feet away; We've been working with our cats and rewarding them for ignoring the birds or not getting close. We are being extremely careful and trying to help them co-exist rather than risking our two new family members getting injured; we would never leave them alone with eachother (They are always supervised) and this is really a precaution to if something would happen in the future.
If the birds show any sign of stress, we move the cats out - we've also been taking into account the birds preening and still interacting normally even with the cats near them. We also do not let the cats around them when the cage is open or if we're not in the room.

My partner and I are researching this, and if nothing comes of it, the cats will not be allowed into the room where the birds are. 
We are really being careful and taking in all signs of the birds behavior.


----------



## ShleeTheRat (4 mo ago)

The solution to keep all parties involved safe is to always keep them separated or under strict supervision. I recommend the room the birds are in to become a no cat zone, putting signs on the inside and outside of a door to remind people about the no kitties allowed rule is a good idea. Personally, your cats should not have access to your birds in and especially out of the cage. They *CANNOT* control their instincts, you're right. And hunting birds and small animals is what a cat is hard wired for. I'm particularly concerned that they show interest in the birds and already have been on the cage. While the birds weren't physically harmed, you might be harming their mental health. Constantly being looked at/stalked by a predator, even if the birds are in a safe area, can't be very good for their minds. I'd be pretty nervous if a lion was outside my window every day. They're very cute birds btw!


----------



## Beetlewiki (2 mo ago)

ShleeTheRat said:


> The solution to keep all parties involved safe is to always keep them separated or under strict supervision. I recommend the room the birds are in to become a no cat zone, putting signs on the inside and outside of a door to remind people about the no kitties allowed rule is a good idea. Personally, your cats should not have access to your birds in and especially out of the cage. They *CANNOT* control their instincts, you're right. And hunting birds and small animals is what a cat is hard wired for. I'm particularly concerned that they show interest in the birds and already have been on the cage. While the birds weren't physically harmed, you might be harming their mental health. Constantly being looked at/stalked by a predator, even if the birds are in a safe area, can't be very good for their minds. I'd be pretty nervous if a lion was outside my window every day. They're very cute birds btw!


Thank you, and I'll try to take both yours and Sweety's Mom's concerns into mind - we just want them to all be safe, even with restrictions on eachother being around one-another.


----------



## Sweety's mom (4 mo ago)

Beetlewiki said:


> Thank you, and I'll try to take both yours and Sweety's Mom's concerns into mind - we just want them to all be safe, even with restrictions on eachother being around one-another.


It's just that the cats may seem to let you "train" them to not eat the birds, but they will simply wait until the one moment you aren't paying attention to attack them. They are training you to feel safe about it, until they have their chance to pounce.

Honestly, I just wouldn't risk it and would rehome the birds for their own safety. It doesn't matter how well intentioned you are about keeping them safe, the cats just will not be able to help themselves.


----------



## ShleeTheRat (4 mo ago)

Beetlewiki said:


> Thank you, and I'll try to take both yours and Sweety's Mom's concerns into mind - we just want them to all be safe, even with restrictions on eachother being around one-another.


That's all anyone wants for our companions! I appreciate you at least reaching out. Personally, I live with a cat and my birdies harmoniously in a laughably small apartment. But my situation is a bit different, since my cat is elderly and uninterested in anything but treats, napping and pets. She will calmly watch them from a little ways off sometimes but that's the extent of it. She was raised around rats, mice, hamsters, pigeons, finches and sugar gliders; so perhaps this shaped her feelings toward small creatures in cages. One time she even woke me up to let me know that my uncle's sugar gliders had escaped their cage when I lived with my family! How she knew it wasn't a house mouse and to come get me is still a mystery but a welcome one. I think common sense and supervision is the key to situations like these. I'm sure you'll figure out a way everyone can live together happily. ❤


----------



## Beetlewiki (2 mo ago)

ShleeTheRat said:


> That's all anyone wants for our companions! I appreciate you at least reaching out. Personally, I live with a cat and my birdies harmoniously in a laughably small apartment. But my situation is a bit different, since my cat is elderly and uninterested in anything but treats, napping and pets. She will calmly watch them from a little ways off sometimes but that's the extent of it. She was raised around rats, mice, hamsters, pigeons, finches and sugar gliders; so perhaps this shaped her feelings toward small creatures in cages. One time she even woke me up to let me know that my uncle's sugar gliders had escaped their cage when I lived with my family! How she knew it wasn't a house mouse and to come get me is still a mystery but a welcome one. I think common sense and supervision is the key to situations like these. I'm sure you'll figure out a way everyone can live together happily. ❤


Hopefully! My aunt that actually breeds a lot of different animals gave me suggestions but I'm also here asking for other insights about things that worked for other people!
Today we actually allowed the cats in the room and they didn't show much interest if any; so a major improvement from before, in the picture you can actually see one of them laying down on the dresser just fully relaxing and ignoring the birds - she even ended up moving to be further from them, which is a really good thing; still wouldn't leave them alone together though, cage or out.
To note, the cat on the dresser is the one we were worried about the most with the birds, but working with her especially is going well.

Also about your cat? She sounds like such a sweet furbaby; hopefully our two kittens end up like her too! ❤
Our adult thankfully doesn't show interest in them at all and just goes to lay in her chair or on the bed ^^
Realistically, we only have 1 cat to worry about, since our boy is just a lazy man and won't even bother with them - our younger female just has a very playful personality and we don't want her to go after them in any kind of situation.


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

It is not advisable to keep the cats and the birds in the same space, it would be better if the birds had their own room where the cats are not allowed, you may not think it is stressful for the birds to see the cats but it most likely is and may manifest later in behavior or health issues. It is also not fair to the cats, no matter how you train them, the birds are small moving objects that they would love to get a hold of just like a moving toy. I have had cats all my life and now birds for many years, the birds are kept behind closed doors in a part of the house that the cats do not have access to and I would not have it any other way. I realize that many do not have the space to be able to do that but that is the optimal solution if you can do it. I know you are already aware that birds are prey and cats are predators but please review this Cats (and Dogs) are Predators // Birds are Prey


----------



## Chuck54 (5 mo ago)

No. Simply no.


----------



## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

It sounds like you have a consciousness that cats and budgies should not be together but it's unrealistic to believe that the budgies won't notice there are cats in the room even if you have the best behaved or laziest cats on earth. As other members said above, the only thing you should be planning is how to make a _budgie only room_ where the cats have no access. It is simply not negotiable. Cats retain all their instincts from the wild, unlike some species of dogs (like toy species) where that has been reduced via breeding (and even then, one should always be vigilant about _any_ predator animal around budgies). Even if your cat had no use of its legs whatsoever, having cats in the room is a natural stressor for budgies, and it would cause a big mental toll as well as emotional toll on them. Please take into account the advice given above.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*The purpose of this forum is to promote the BEST PRACTICES in the care of budgies for their optimal Health and Well-Being*
*Locating an Avian Veterinarian**

This forum does NOT recommend having a budgie's cage in the same room with cats.
No matter what other people or forums may tell you or what you find out there in the internet world, it isn't good for the budgies.

Cats and Dogs are Predators - Birds are Prey

BOTTOM LINE: it is not acceptable to have the budgie's cage in with the cats.
(See StarlingWings post above).*

*A Healthy Diet for your Budgie*
*Quality Seed Mix*
*CuttleBones, Mineral Blocks and Manu Clay Roses*
*Safe Foods for Budgies*
*The Truth about GRIT*

*Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and all of the Stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.
Additionally, please be sure to read the thread "Posting on the Forums" which is linked below.

Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.
(Stickies are threads “stuck” at the top of each forum sub-section)
These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.

I recommend you remove the wooden dowel perches in the cage and replace them with natural wooden perches of varying diameters to help prevent pressure sores.
Pressure Sores
Bumblefoot
The information in this link will give examples of better options for perches:
Essentials for a Great Cage
*
*SITE GUIDELINES*
*Posting on the Forums*
*Let's Talk Budgies!*
*FAQ*
*Articles*
*Be Prepared for Veterinary Care Expense*
*Avian First Aid*
*Quarantine - Is it Really that Important?*
*Quarantine Your Birds*
*A Heartfelt Plea to All Members*
*Tips For Discouraging Breeding*
*Before You Ever Consider Breeding Your Budgies*
*Guidance for Breeding Advice Threads*
*Cage sizes.*
*Essentials to a Great Cage*
*Dangers to Pet Birds*
*Resource Directory*


----------



## karenblodgett3261 (11 mo ago)

Beetlewiki said:


> I...need a little bit of help even after researching just so I don't mess this up.
> Recently, my mother gave me two Budgies that weren't being cared for by their previous owner (a kid lost interest in them, stopped feeding them + giving them water, real sad honestly), and me, having looked into Budgie care and wanting them since I was _young_, took them in under my roof.
> They are the sweetest little babies, extremely excited and happy and just love to try and watch what my partner and I do constantly.
> 
> ...


I have two cats in my home, but my LoVey is in my room and the cats are NOT allowed in the room! A cat may ignore the birds completely... that is until the day they don't. Even if the cat doesn't kill the budgie, the trauma of an attack would be unreal. And if they do kill them, you can't undo dead 😢!


----------



## karenblodgett3261 (11 mo ago)

StarlingWings said:


> It sounds like you have a consciousness that cats and budgies should not be together but it's unrealistic to believe that the budgies won't notice there are cats in the room even if you have the best behaved or laziest cats on earth. As other members said above, the only thing you should be planning is how to make a _budgie only room_ where the cats have no access. It is simply not negotiable. Cats retain all their instincts from the wild, unlike some species of dogs (like toy species) where that has been reduced via breeding (and even then, one should always be vigilant about _any_ predator animal around budgies). Even if your cat had no use of its legs whatsoever, having cats in the room is a natural stressor for budgies, and it would cause a big mental toll as well as emotional toll on them. Please take into account the advice given above.


Your mention of the stress alone taking a toll on the birds got me to think of a way we as humans can understand what they feel: 
Suppose you're hiking with a friend, looking for a spot to have your lunch. You spread a blanket on the ground and get the food out. About twenty five yards away you see a cougar sunning itself on a rock ledge. You notice no hunting or stalking behavior. It's just watching you. How relaxing would you imagine this little picnic will be? Will you look for a different area to dine? If you decide to stay and eat your meal, you'll be on high alert the entire time. You are now in fight or flight mode. In humans, a vast number of physiological changes take place to prepare you to either fight or run for your life. Actually those responses are fascinating! I'm not sure how similarly our bodies are to a birds when this occurs. But in any case to remain in this state contininually isn't healthy. If we don't feel our birds are intelligent enough to recognize the presences of a predator, we aren't giving them the credit they deserve! They *know* and it's not fair to them! I hope this has provided a little insight as to how things might feel for our budgies.

Trivia fact (in humans):
Have you ever noticed when nervous, your mouth goes dry? This is because part of that fight or flight response includes the cessation of the digestive process. This is because our bodies are getting ready to defend our life and is prioritizing our bodies immediate needs. _Our mouths are dry because the first step in the digestive process is salivation_. If humans and birds respond even somewhat similarly in this respect, do we really want their digestion to cease? 

_One other thing to keep in mind! Bad things do only happen to other people... but to the rest of the world we are other people!!!_


----------

