# Broken Femur or Something Else?



## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

Hello, I am a new member in this forum. My name is Evren from Izmir, Turkey.
I accidently found this websie but I think, I will be here for a long time 

Ok, about question, my budgie, Paşa (Pasha) has a problem on his right leg.
I guess he has a broken femur or sth like that. I am not sure, I am uploading some photos.
He can not push on his leg very well, he uses other leg most of the time. And I can feel that he has pain. and there is a tiny swelling under his left wing, near his til on his back.
( I am sorry for my poor english)
do you have any advice?


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*You need to have your bird examined by an Avian Vet right away.
Your poor budgie may be in pain.

It is impossible for us to tell from the picture what the problem is or advise you on how to treat it.

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/335937-avian-first-aid.html

In the meantime, keep the budgie quiet and give him Guardian Angel or Pedialyte. You can make your own with the recipe in the following link:

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-bud...uardian-angel-pedialyte-pedialyte-recipe.html

Avian Vets have special training to determine the cause of symptoms resulting from illness or trauma. 
This is important as "regular" vets will often overlook symptoms that are quickly obvious to an Avian Vet.
When you rely on anyone who has not had training in Avian diagnosis and care, you may be delaying effective treatment. 
This can prolong suffering that may be avoidable.
The bird will often require a more intense, prolonged treatment with a poorer chance of full recovery than it would have if you seek prompt professional diagnosis and treatment at the first sign of illness.

I'm wishing all the best for your budgie. 
Please be sure to update us on his condition after the vet appointment.

Please take the time to read through all of the How To Guides, the FAQs and the stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.

You'll find most of your basic questions about budgies and caring for them will have been answered after you've read through all of them.

Site Guidelines
How-To Guides
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Budgie Articles
http://talkbudgies.com/general-budgie-talk/295001-list-stickies.html
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Avian First Aid
Why Quarantine?

http://talkbudgies.com/articles-general-budgie-info/227841-50-common-budgie-dangers-watch-out.html

http://talkbudgies.com/budgie-breeding/327881-heartfelt-plea-forum-members-new-old.html

http://talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/24411-cage-sizes.html
http://talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/31719-essentials-great-cage.html
http://talkbudgies.com/general-budgie-talk/339826-resource-directory.html

When you upload pictures as thumbnail attachments directly from your computer, tablet or phone, the forum automatically defaults to landscape.

To upload full-sized pictures with the proper orientation, please use a photo-sharing service such as PhotoBucket and follow the steps in these instructions:
http://talkbudgies.com/how-guides/175818-how-post-pictures-photobucket.html

For gender and/or mutation help - Lighting and Angle DOES matter

By the way, all photos entered in any of our forum contests must be a full-size photo and not a thumbnail attachment so it's good to know how to upload them! 

If you have any questions after reading through everything, please be sure to ask!

Glad you decided to join us and looking forward to seeing you around the forums.

:wave:

*


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

Thank you for your answer and I will read them carefully.
ANd I asked it because someone might experienced same or similar situation with his/her bird. :S
TOmorrow we will visit a vet. Unfortunately, in Turkey, many vets are not specialists in tropical birds. they love cats & dogs.... :S


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## aluz (Jul 24, 2011)

Welcome to the forums! 

I'm sorry your budgie is having problems with his leg. 
From the photos you posted, I don't think he has a broken femur, the leg/foot looks good and shows no signs of swelling or injury.
He may have had a night fright accident where he has sprained his leg and gotten the small injury on the wing. 
To help in relieving the pain and to promote healing, you can bathe the foot on room temperature camomile tea. 
I also couldn't help to notice the darkening on Pasha's cere, which seems to be turning a brown colour. He may have an hormonal imbalance.

I agree that the best thing to do is to locate a vet that specializes in birds, an avian vet or an exotics vet, so that you can book an appointment for Pasha.

Best of luck with everything! I hope Pasha feels better soon.


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

about his nose, he has blue nose, and it is ok. it looks brown because the layer, old skin on his nose can't drop.. stays there for weeks :S they it drops :S I couldn't understand why. I have another budgie, she has same problem. she is like that for years and she doesn't have any health problem. so does Pasha. (except leg problem)

and yes, probably, he had a night accident. I have two other birds too. A father and a daughter. they lost their mother 2 weeks ago. and I wanted to put them all in a big cage. Normally, they eat and fly together all day and they sleep in different cages at night (the father and the daughter in one cage, Pasha and Maviş are in another cage)
So, I put all together in one big cage and something happened that night... since then he has had a problem... and day by day it is getting worse 



aluz said:


> Welcome to the forums!
> 
> I'm sorry your budgie is having problems with his leg.
> From the photos you posted, I don't think he has a broken femur, the leg/foot looks good and shows no signs of swelling or injury.
> ...


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I can certainly understand the frustration of not having good Avian Vets available.

Because of this, you will want to do as much research as you can and learn as much about budgies and the best practices for their care so you can provide your little ones with the best possible life. 

We have a member in India who has done this and has developed a great relationship with a regular vet. With the member's research and the vet's collaboration, they have found ways of providing care for her budgie that she would have not been able to manage otherwise.

Perhaps the vet you see can collaborate via telephone with an Avian Vet should he/she deem it necessary.

Prof. Dr. Nilufer AYTUG - Avian Vet
Ada Veteriner Poliklinigi, Sulun Sokak, No:14, Levent/ Istanbul/TURKEY
Tel. No: +90-212-3246732 GSM: +905337442395.
e-mail: [email protected] / [email protected]

While a female budgie's cere will get brown during breeding condition, a male bird's cere should not.
If it does, it is an indication of a nutritional or hormonal imbalance or possibly testicular cancer.

Be very careful to ensure you have no inbreeding of your budgies.
If you are caging multiple genders in one cage, you need to do everything possible to discourage breeding.

When We Don't Want Eggs

http://talkbudgies.com/budgie-breeding/106210-cage-colony-breeding-differences-dangers.html

*


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

Thank you  And I call her (the vet) tomorrow.

About my Budgies hmm, Paşa, he is not interested in any boys or girls, He is like a little human, He eats everything what you eat and talks so much 

Maviş, we bought her to have a family with Paşa but.. as I said, our man is not interested in any kind of relationship :S

Yeah, about other two, Yaşam and Maviş may have a baby.. but if it happens, it is ok, we may have a new baby too 

about cere, as I told.. it's like a layer, shell. both of them have healthy cere but there are layers, old shells... when it gets bigger, it drops and you can see their ceres then they have shells on their cere again :S



FaeryBee said:


> *I can certainly understand the frustration of not having good Avian Vets available.
> 
> Because of this, you will want to do as much research as you can and learn as much about budgies and the best practices for their care so you can provide your little ones with the best possible life.
> 
> ...


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello Evren and :welcome: to the forums!

I'm sorry to hear that your budgie's leg is injured. I agree that taking him to an avian vet as soon as possible is essential; this way the problem can be adequately addressed and treated.

As for his cere, I'm unable to see it accurately in the photos you posted. Do you have photos of it when it is brown as well as when it is blue?

By the way, the only human food that budgies can eat are fruits and vegetables, as well as plain bread/crackers only once in a while. It's important to ensure that your little one doesn't eat any chocolate, coffee, avocado or anything sweet, salty or fatty, as these are very bad for budgies. The first three listed are toxic to budgies.

I'm glad that Yasam and Mavis are friends! However, it's important to discourage their breeding since you don't yet have the knowledge required to breed budgies :thumbsup: Breeding budgies takes a lot of research and experience to be able to do so safely 

Please be sure to read through these links for more information: 
http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/338818-safe-foods-budgies.html
http://talkbudgies.com/diet-nutrition/338970-serving-vegetables-fruit.html
http://talkbudgies.com/budgie-breeding/327881-heartfelt-plea-forum-members-new-old.html

If you have any questions after reading through everything, please be sure to ask as we'd love to help! 

I hope your budgie is able to heal soon. Keep us posted!

:wave:


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

I will look for photos for you.

about food, unfortunately, he is a little human.
He eats whatever you or I eat...
everyday he drinks Turkish tea, Turkish coffee, he eats vegetable or fruit everyday, if you eat chocolate and if he sees you, he should eat too. he eats rice, chicken, red meat, yogurt, .... everything! he licks lemon! :S as I told, he is a little human! and if you don't give, then he stops talking with you... :S little human! I love him...

other ones, they eat only their special foods and some vegetables and fruits.

As I said, the most mportant and the only problem is his leg! or femur! I am still looking for a specialists, I called some vets and all of them said, "oh, we do not have enough knowledge about that. we can threat some ilnesses"

it's really hard to find a good vet for tropical birds in Turkey.
I found a federation in Turkey and they suggest me a university veterinary faculty in another city, approximately 250 Km away. :S


StarlingWings said:


> Hello Evren and :welcome: to the forums!
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that your budgie's leg is injured. I agree that taking him to an avian vet as soon as possible is essential; this way the problem can be adequately addressed and treated.
> 
> ...


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

I finally found a Vet, a specialist in Tropical Birds and in Izmir. We have an appointment on Monday. 
I explained to situation on phone and he said that it could a tumor or* soft tissue*(google translate). bring him and let me see him and if I can treat I will treat.
so, Monday we will go and see him.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*For your budgie's health and well-being, it is important you restrict his foods only to what is shown on the Budgie Safe Foods list. If you do not do so, you are risking his health and may be shortening his lifespan. 

Good luck at the vet - please be sure to update us on your budgie's condition.*


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

I found this website and it is useful for me.
and I can deffinately say that the swelling is on/in his Rump


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I've removed the link from your post as we do not allow links to other bird forums.

You can find the same information in this link. 

http://talkbudgies.com/your-budgies-health/281953-anatomy-how-administer-cpr-bird.html*


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

I also strongly urge you not to let your budgie eat anything he wants. As responsible guardians of our pets, we just cannot let them do anything they want just because they want to. Just like a human child can't eat candy and junk food all day everyday, and not eventually get seriously ill. You might have heard of other people somewhere feeding their birds human foods, but it doesn't make it right. Budgies are so tiny and delicate that there is not a lot of room for error. They also don't always outwardly show that they're sick until it's too late. 

It's always best to start taking the best care of you or budgie from the start, and making smart decisions for your budgie, because he can't make decisions for himself. He is not human, and it is up to you to keep him safe and healthy. Please keep this in mind next time your little buddy wants some of your inappropriate foods.

I eat salty chips, etc. in front of my parrots, and they do beg, but I just tell them no, this is not bird food. I don't even feel bad about it lol. I distract them to play or to go back to their cage and eat their own foods. As part of the flock, the bird's will often eat their own food at the same time as they see me eating my food. It's just a matter of conditioning them to do that is all.


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## bluewing (Feb 6, 2016)

Hi there and welcome.

I am going to echo much of what others here have said: at this point, any pressure on the leg can be due to swelling in the abdomen above the leg. This can resemble a possible tumour or fatty tissue putting pressure on the nerve as the leg and foot itself does not appear swollen, but I can see a distinct problem above it at his rump and his wing droops.

Do not feed him everything that you may eat, like coffee, chocolate, avocados and sweets. :thumbdown: This can cause tumours to develop and will harm your bird. He will eventually get used to not being able to have everything he wants. Fruit is fine but in moderation and limit citrus if you can or just add lemon to water if he loves lemon so much. Right now, he has YOU eating out of his feathers, so to speak. 

Proper diet along with safe for budgies human foods like greens, apples, dill, broccoli, lettuce are great along with a proper pellet or seed mix / and mixed together. How about some dried herbs like thyme, parsley, spinach, seaweed, sweet chili pepper flakes mixed altogether? If he wants to be a little human but wants your food or drink when you are eating, offer him a little plate or bowl beside you along with a little cup dish of some tea (like chamomile, milk thistle, dandelion, thyme), distilled or regular treated water, vitamin (for birds) in distilled water and interchange between them so he has a variety of good healthy drink that will also boost his immune and digestive system. No sugary sweets and limit fruit treats!!! Let him be a big boy and get used to having his own food with you so that he doesn't think you have something different. A little reverse psychology goes a long way. :yes:

Let's face it, these little chickens OWN us! We love them too much and sometimes we give them what they want because we think they will suffer some tremendous rejection if they don't get what they want. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Lastly, time for a vet checkup to determine what is going on there so that you may be able to treat and change his current routine so that he can heal and feel better. Also, in the meantime, make sure he is able to get around in his cage with little to no effort creating a couple of platforms and perches for easy movement. Until you know what it is wrong and what you need to do, this will help make him more comfortable. You can also wrap a perch or platform perch in a soft cotton material so that he may rest on it if need be.

All the best and keep us informed. Be well, Pasa!


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## StarlingWings (Mar 15, 2013)

Evren, 

They really do seem human sometimes, don't they?  

However, it's important to remember that their tiny digestive systems are very not human. They simply can't process our sort of foods without serious health problems resulting. For the sake of your little one, please do not let him eat/drink the things that you have been letting him have. Over time, their liver will be overwhelmed with so many toxins and will fail, if it progresses that long. Even before then there is a host of problems that will develop and are fatal. 

I know you want the best for your little one. But please, please start giving him only "budgie foods" so he can live a long life with you! :hug:


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## Therm (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm glad you have found a vet to take a look at your little ones leg. 

It's really important to remember that while your little guy LOVES sharing what you have, not everything is safe or healthy for him and you will be causing him serious issues if you continue to treat him like a little human. 
His behaviour has been learnt from the actions you have taken. You just need to re-educate him on what he can and can't have. I would suggest if you are having a meal of items not suitable for him, you always add a little something to your plate that you can give him, so he feels he is getting to share with you. 
if this isn't going to work, then maybe the easiest thing is to have him in his cage while you are eating and 'treat' him with something from your plate at the end- something that is on the safe food list. 

It might seem harsh at first as he is used to getting his own way but eventually, he will adjust and you will be giving him a better quality of life.


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

ok, the vet said that Pasha has a tumor on his hip bone in joint part. (again sorry for my poor english)


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

Hello Evren, I am sorry your sweet budgie Pasha has a tumour can the vet operate? there are some holistic ways of treating some tumours, did he give you any pain killers for Pashma to help ?
Please do think wisely about feeding human foods to your budgies, their digestive tract is totally different from ours. He eats what you eat because he see's you doing so.
http://talkbudgies.com/articles-hol.../347266-alternative-remedies-help-tumors.html


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

FaeryBee ok, I will not share another link again 
RavensGryf, bluewing, StarlingWings, Therm thank you for your answers,
And yes, we are responsible guardians of our pet. But yes StarlingWings said, he is a little human 

So, in conclusion, the vet examined him with his hands and said, he has tumor. 
you must change his diet (as you guys said). and I am giving vitamins and antibiotic, put them in his water.
in addition, I am giving a powder (I call it as powder, it's white thing, not liquid, and I guess he said "tarantula powder")
put this in his water too and change the water everyday.
don't give him any water at night, he has to be thirsty. and give fresh water in the morning.
use antibiotics for 5-7 days and use other medicines until they finish. 
and come and see me again 10 days later. He said.

So, we will see.
About Pasha, he still singing, speaking, itching himself and wants me to itch him. so, his manner (attitude) is normal except he can't walk very well and there is a tiny swelling on his rump 
So yes, it could be a tumor or it could me something else, like another illness :S I don't know.

The Vet said, it seems like that the tumor is between rip bones in joints and also it is in soft tissue. he may survive from that or unfortunately he may die.
Let's see what will happen 10 days later! :S

Again thank you for your answers.

This forum is useful. WHere have you been guys before )))


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

oh in addition, he said that,
sow some wheat, when they become sprouting, take them and put in his seed. and don't give any wheat seed if it is not sprouting.
and also, sow some of his seed, make them growing, and give him one leaf everyday.


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

It sounds like you have indeed found a great resource and Avian vet to help you learn. So happy for you and your birds.:wild:


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

Hello to you too

May be, I may try this too
doing-something-about-budgie-tumors

If I find H2O2 for food :S
I don't know, maybe the vet already gave it to me. he gave something and said that it may make the tumor smaller... Bu it didn't say its name...



Pretty boy said:


> Hello Evren, I am sorry your sweet budgie Pasha has a tumour can the vet operate? there are some holistic ways of treating some tumours, did he give you any pain killers for Pashma to help ?
> Please do think wisely about feeding human foods to your budgies, their digestive tract is totally different from ours. He eats what you eat because he see's you doing so.
> http://talkbudgies.com/articles-hol.../347266-alternative-remedies-help-tumors.html


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Evren, now that you've seen the vet, I wish you all the best for getting your little one all better again with renewed health . 

I'm not sure what the tarantula powder is that the vet prescribed? Some kind of supplement? :S My concern is that if it's not formulated for birds, it might not work, or even be harmful. The link you found with the article for the Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide sounds intersting... Keep in mind though, it's just something that a member claimed he tried and said it worked, but it isn't necessarily a proven fact, or something Talk Budgies told anyone to do. Good luck Evren  please keep us posted.


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

I do not know but, for example, many vets and people said good things and advice me to go to him. 
However, the thing is tha the vet said me that my bird is a girl 
I told him he is a boy, and look at his cre closely, you will see his blue cere. I don't know why but he has a layer on his cere, old skin. it drops late :S he said, I am not sure, I think that is a girl, and you know that wrong. she is a girl! 
the vet said that  it's funny bcs he is a boy  and I can se his blue cere under that brown old skin/layer.

and this is the best vet I have ever found and many people adviced. So, Turkey is like that. Nearly all vets think commercial therefore they become experts on cats and dogs.

So, RavenGryf, "Tarantula Powder" the vet called it like that and I don't know what it is..

And, I am still digging the internet about that hidrogen peroxide thing...

About Pasha, nowadays, since Friday, he mostly stays in his cage and I open him once for 15 minutes in 3 hours. otherwise, if I don't let him go out, he can get offended. (it happened once, I didn't open him for a day months ago, and he didn't talk or sing and didn't eat well for 3 days...  he is a sensitive bird)

Anyway, about his leg, he started to use his leg. still he can't push on his right leg very well but at least, he can itch himself with his right leg. (I have never seen him while he is itching himself with left leg, so still he can't push on well..)

So, I talked too much such as my bird  Shortly, I will keep updateding this forum.
I hope he will get healthier again as soon as possible.


RavensGryf said:


> Evren, now that you've seen the vet, I wish you all the best for getting your little one all better again with renewed health .
> 
> I'm not sure what the tarantula powder is that the vet prescribed? Some kind of supplement? :S My concern is that if it's not formulated for birds, it might not work, or even be harmful. The link you found with the article for the Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide sounds intersting... Keep in mind though, it's just something that a member claimed he tried and said it worked, but it isn't necessarily a proven fact, or something Talk Budgies told anyone to do. Good luck Evren  please keep us posted.


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## RavensGryf (May 8, 2015)

Evren, thank you for the update on Pasha. I'm glad to hear that he has started to use his leg again. ray: Good wishes that he continues to improve until he is well again. Please keep us posted on the progress .


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## bluewing (Feb 6, 2016)

"Tarantula Powder" as I am finding on the web, seems to be a Plant Growth supplement for gardeners of certain plants. It enhances the root system. From the looks of it, it is organic and mostly natural with it's primary ingredients being different Bacillus fungi, which some Bacillus can be found in a healthy seed food / pellet mix.

I think what your vet is suggesting is interesting, but whether it is safe is another matter. We wouldn't know on this forum and no one here would consider using it as it is not specifically made for budgies or any parrots for that matter. In the grander scheme of things, I think overall what your vet wants is for you to change Pasha's diet and introduce healthy foods, pellets, seed mix that will contain bacillus, spirulina, and vitamins. A probiotic will also ensure healthy bugs to the gut and improve digestion.

Your vet may have some experience suggesting this product (Tarantula Powder) as an alternative form of introducing healthy vitamins and bacteria, however, I would double check with him or her to make sure that the product is in fact safe and a healthy way to introduce as a supplement. From the ingredients list it looks safe, but I can't be sure so you must do due diligence and talk to your vet again, if you can.

You can, however, order specific health products for Parakeets / Budgies and Parrots online from elsewhere if it is not a problem for you to do. Maybe out of the UK or somewhere closer?


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## EvrenErdem (Nov 11, 2016)

I don't know its ingredits because the vet gave a liquid in a syringe. So I have no idea :S

Update; He is still same. I touched that tiny swelling today and it's really hard. And also there is not any feather there. His behaivor is same. He eats less, so he loses weight.  But he still talks, itches himself, flies etc.

So! :S I don't know....



bluewing said:


> "Tarantula Powder" as I am finding on the web, seems to be a Plant Growth supplement for gardeners of certain plants. It enhances the root system. From the looks of it, it is organic and mostly natural with it's primary ingredients being different Bacillus fungi, which some Bacillus can be found in a healthy seed food / pellet mix.
> 
> I think what your vet is suggesting is interesting, but whether it is safe is another matter. We wouldn't know on this forum and no one here would consider using it as it is not specifically made for budgies or any parrots for that matter. In the grander scheme of things, I think overall what your vet wants is for you to change Pasha's diet and introduce healthy foods, pellets, seed mix that will contain bacillus, spirulina, and vitamins. A probiotic will also ensure healthy bugs to the gut and improve digestion.
> 
> ...


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