# Two New Budgies, So beautiful!!



## Zigzagma

Good day every one, so I've always wanted birds, just love them, me and the wife pick two budgies up today, girl and boy (not really sure if its true), from some random woman who got them for her kid and her kid didn't like them, after a month of having them they were posted on kijiji (just sad) but i was lucky enough to get them, so they were never tamed, scared of me and the wife if we put our hands in, seemed to be in good health, chirping lots, playing with the toys, eating, but they do fight over food a lot or even when they are just sitting next to each other, they will randomly bite each other. SO my question here is, i want to tame them ( of course), but i feel bad for splitting them up, i dont know where she got them, so not sure if they have been together longer then the month she had them or not. or even if they like each other that much to care?


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## JRS

Hi and welcome to the forum

The best initial advise to give you, is to read through the stickies:
http://www.talkbudgies.com/general-budgie-talk/295001-list-stickies.html
There is a wealth of information in there, that will help you. 
I recommend that you start with the section on 'new arrivals' and housing.

In the meantime, if you'd like to post a photo of your birds' faces, in natural lighting and taken without flash, then members can help verify the genders of your budgies.

Budgies will very often squabble over food and for that reason, we recommend that you have two dishes of everything to help allow both birds to eat as needed.

Occasionally two birds just don't get along well together and need to be separated. Minor brief squabbles are normal. To 'randomly bite each other' leads me to question whether they are perhaps in too small a cage. Here are the MINIMUM recommended cage sizes:
http://www.talkbudgies.com/housing-budgies/24411-cage-sizes.html
...though bigger is always better.

Have a good read through the stickies and if you have further questions, please feel free to post them.
Nice to have you join us


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## Zigzagma

Thanks for the advice, but i been reading a lot and i haven't found any thing that tells me its ok to separate them after being together for so long, like i said i would like to tame them and every wheres i read tells me i should separate them or take them one at a time, but since i cant even get them out of the cage to do one at a time, i figured i would just separate them and taking them to the flight room in their cages. 

And your right, the cage might be a little small for them, but i am in the middle of building them a new one out of a china cabinet, so trust me, they will have lots of room when they are tamed and able to be housed together again (if i separate them). im trying to do this with them as happy as possible. And they do have 2 water dishes, two food dishes, and they even have apples slices around the cage, so its not like they cant eat, its just the male is always picking at the female when she tries to eat (figured out which is which)
Any ways, pretty sure ill be separating them, watch and see if they seem sadder or not, if they seem ok ill keep going with it, if not and they are happier together , ill just have to work harder for them to trust me is all


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## FaeryBee

*Hi! :welcome: to Talk Budgies

I would suggest you leave the two together initially while they settle into their new environment unless they are doing more than "bickering". If they seems as if they are going to hurt one another, then you do need to move them into individual cages.

You can work with both budgies in one cage -- it just will take more time and patience.

Budgies need a minimum of two weeks to settle into their new home and you should not be trying to touch or tame them at this time. They are often submissive initially because they are terrified.
You can cover the top and three sides of the cage to help them feel more secure. Play music or the TV for them when you are not around during the day.

To bond with your birds, you need to build their trust in you.
They will have to learn over time that you will not hurt them.

To build your birds' trust, sit by their cage and read, talk or sing quietly to them for a period of at least 10-15 minutes, 3 or 4 times day. After about a week, rest your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to them so they will learn that your hand is safe and will not hurt them.

After a week of resting your hand on the outside of the cage, rest your hand inside the cage when you talk. 
Don't make sudden moves, don't try to touch them. 
Let their get used to the idea that the hand is now in their safe place and not harming them.

After 2 weeks, begin moving your hand slowly toward your bird. If they become agitated, stop moving your hand and just hold very still until they calm down. When they are comfortable with your hand near them, you can offer them a bit of millet or a few seeds.

Always work at your birds' pace. 
Move slowly and talk reassuringly and calmly to their whenever you interact with them.

Please take the time to read through the Site Guidelines, all of the How To Guides, the FAQs, the Budgie Articles and the stickies located at the top of each section of the forum.

Truly, the very BEST advice anyone can offer you is to take the time to read ALL of the stickies throughout the various Talk Budgie forums as well as the Budgie Articles we have posted.

These are great resources for Talk Budgie members and have a wealth of reliable information which will assist you to learn the best practices in caring for your budgies for their optimal health and well-being.

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If you have any questions after reading through everything, please be sure to ask!

Glad you decided to join us and looking forward to seeing you around the forums.

:wave:*


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## Zigzagma

Your right, i shouldn't be trying at this time and i will take these two weeks and read lol, I just figured i would try and see how they felt about humans really, but the owners before did not deserve them.... But i do have one more question before starting my read. the reason i was asking about the separation is cause i read that if they have one another with they will have no need for bonding with me and they will just see me as a threat to there relationship?, and the longer i leave them together the more they will not need me, same as mirrors, should i take them away?, i feel like its stupid questions but the more you read the more opinions you get, so its hard to figure out what is right and wrong.


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## FaeryBee

*Remove any mirrors from the cage. 
Budgies can become obsessed with their reflection and become aggressive and territorial.
Additionally, some budgies will feed the mirror image to the point where they become malnourished.

You don't know how long these budgies have been together so it's hard to know if they have already bonded to one another. 
If so, it would not be good to separate them unless it's necessary for their safety.

Do you know what gender the birds are?
If you have a mixed gender pair, you are going to need to be very careful to prevent breeding.

A Heartfelt Plea to All Members
Guidance regarding Breeding Advice Threads

Two budgies are more difficult to tame and bond with but it can be done. 
A lot depends on the individual birds.

Some people with multiple budgies have had great success working with each bird individually (even though they are housed together) and using clicker training.
Take a look at the stickies in the taming and bonding section of the forum as well as some of the training journals.

Even if you don't end up with tamed budgies, you should be glad that you've taken these birds in and will be giving them a safe and loving home.

I have untamed budgies and I love just watching them play together and interact with one another. I don't feel the need to have them bonded to me - I'd rather watch them flying around the room and playing together and just "being budgies". :001_tongue:*


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## Zigzagma

No more mirrors!, I don't know if they are fighting bad or not, they seem to stay next to each other pretty much all the time, its just randomly one will bite the other and not let go for a bit, that's the worse though, the rest of the time its just standing up straight and chirping next to the food or water, but both are still eating and getting water. Two dishes for both, food and water. So i don't think i have to separate them and i don't feel like i should, so they will stay together and they can have the bigger cage when im done and ill work with them housed together. They are male and female, One has a blue ceres and the other with more a red colour, If im correct, thats how you can tell. And i thought they were younger then their first molt, but they are not, its all white from the ceres to the top of the head. So im really not sure how old they are, got them from kijiji. try my hardest to get them to bond, if they dont, you're right, they will just be happy being budgies lol


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## Zigzagma

this was the best pic i can get with out being in there more then once while taking the mirrors out, can you tell me if they are male or female?, see if i was right or not, and they really didn't seem to bad, hopefully they will like it here


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## SmolBirb

You definitely have a male and female there!

From the picture, it looks like the male doesn't have his iris's in yet, which would indicate that he is younger than the female.


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## Zigzagma

so if we are going by that, then the girl is 8 months or older since the white is very clear in the picture? and the boy is 4 to 6 months?. maybe they aren't as bonded as i thought, i figured they were bought at the same time... guess they just got him later.


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## SmolBirb

I'd say that is relatively accurate. I'm not an expert though.

It is possible that they were still bought at the same time, big box pet stores will often have budgies of different ages all in one place, they could have just chosen two of different ages.


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## StarlingWings

Hi there and :welcome: to the forums! 

Your boy and girl are gorgeous  It's hard to tell they're exact ages but they're both at least eight months of age :thumbsup: 

You've come to the best place to learn even more about budgies! 

Be sure to read through the forum's many stickies and articles to ensure that you're up to date on the very best of budgie care practices. 

If you have any questions after reading through everything, please be sure to ask as we'd love to help! 

Cheers! :wave:


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## FaeryBee

*Your male and female are very cute. :001_tongue:
Have you named them yet?

I'll look forward to hearing how things progress for you with them.*


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## Zigzagma

they are so cute, its unbelievable how beautiful birds are. Well thank you every one, i have decided not to split them up and to tame them at the same time, will give them two weeks to get use to the place and then its time for work lol, we have a room the rabbit uses and will be using that as the flight room, so i hope they get along with Pig (that's the rabbits name lol) Hopefully i have the big cage done by then and will post pictures and keep you guys up to date , and i think we might call them goose and moose lol, not sure yet, the wife wants God names, thanks again for all the help  and i didn't think they got them from a pet store since we don't really have any more in New Brunswick, they could of found one i guess. What ever, doesn't matter, they will be a lot happier here and i know that, that's what matters


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## Blingy

Hi there, I just wanted to say welcome and good on you for taking these lovely budgies in and giving them a better life. I also have 2 that I'm trying to tame. Mine are younger but they definitely would rather be with each other than with me. We are making progress though and they are very happy. Best of luck. I hope you'll keep us posted on your progress. Maybe you'd like to start a training journal in the taming and bonding section. (After the birds have had time to settle in of course).


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## Zigzagma

Blingy said:


> Hi there, I just wanted to say welcome and good on you for taking these lovely budgies in and giving them a better life. I also have 2 that I'm trying to tame. Mine are younger but they definitely would rather be with each other than with me. We are making progress though and they are very happy. Best of luck. I hope you'll keep us posted on your progress. Maybe you'd like to start a training journal in the taming and bonding section. (After the birds have had time to settle in of course).


Thank you very much, i have had lots of reptiles in my life and all were great animals, but never birds, so this will be fun, diffidently a different kind of bond will happen lol, Do you find it hard with two of them in the same cage?,


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## Blingy

Zigzagma said:


> Thank you very much, i have had lots of reptiles in my life and all were great animals, but never birds, so this will be fun, diffidently a different kind of bond will happen lol, Do you find it hard with two of them in the same cage?,


I actually think it works for me having both birds in the one cage. They feed off each other. If one jumps onto the feed plate I'm holding, the other sees it and copies. It was the same with coming out of their cage for the first time. One found the courage first, then the other called for him, he called back so she followed. I know it's going to be a slow process but I'm definitely making progress. Mind you, I've only had my two since February 20th. Their cage is right beside my chair and I'm home almost all the time so they're used to me being close to them and they come to the side of the cage closest to where I am to interact with me. They also now get excited when they see me first thing in the morning or when I come home after being out. Just work at their pace as FaeryBee said and I'm sure you'll do fine.


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## Zigzagma

Blingy said:


> I actually think it works for me having both birds in the one cage. They feed off each other. If one jumps onto the feed plate I'm holding, the other sees it and copies. It was the same with coming out of their cage for the first time. One found the courage first, then the other called for him, he called back so she followed. I know it's going to be a slow process but I'm definitely making progress. Mind you, I've only had my two since February 20th. Their cage is right beside my chair and I'm home almost all the time so they're used to me being close to them and they come to the side of the cage closest to where I am to interact with me. They also now get excited when they see me first thing in the morning or when I come home after being out. Just work at their pace as FaeryBee said and I'm sure you'll do fine.


Well i'm glad to hear, it gives me hope lol, but i do find the female is chasing him around a lot or biting at him, he does eat and drink, but she does fight with him every time he tries too and she don't let him play with much, it was bad today, the chasing lasted a good 20 mins, but they sit next to each other all the time. Yesterday wasn't to bad, but today she is just being mean i find, the cage is big enough, i checked.... im torn between separating them... hate to do it and its just me being worried, but she is a bully and hes smaller then her, i feel bad  lol.


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## Blingy

Zigzagma said:


> Well i'm glad to hear, it gives me hope lol, but i do find the female is chasing him around a lot or biting at him, he does eat and drink, but she does fight with him every time he tries too and she don't let him play with much, it was bad today, the chasing lasted a good 20 mins, but they sit next to each other all the time. Yesterday wasn't to bad, but today she is just being mean i find, the cage is big enough, i checked.... im torn between separating them... hate to do it and its just me being worried, but she is a bully and hes smaller then her, i feel bad  lol.


It's difficult to say whether the bickering is normal budgie behaviour or if it's something more serious that you should be worried about. Maybe you could post a video and someone with more experience than me can give you some advice. My two have recently started biting at each other if one over steps the line or does something to bug the other one. I'm keeping an eye on it but right now, they are just standing up for themselves. Are they in the cage they lived in at their previous home, or did you provide them with a new cage? If it's a new cage, maybe they're just settling in and working out their new territory. I hear you on the spa ration issue. I'd be terribly sad if I had to separate mine. Of course, I'd do it if it was in their best interest, but I do hope they'll continue to be happier together.


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## Zigzagma

Blingy said:


> It's difficult to say whether the bickering is normal budgie behaviour or if it's something more serious that you should be worried about. Maybe you could post a video and someone with more experience than me can give you some advice. My two have recently started biting at each other if one over steps the line or does something to bug the other one. I'm keeping an eye on it but right now, they are just standing up for themselves. Are they in the cage they lived in at their previous home, or did you provide them with a new cage? If it's a new cage, maybe they're just settling in and working out their new territory. I hear you on the spa ration issue. I'd be terribly sad if I had to separate mine. Of course, I'd do it if it was in their best interest, but I do hope they'll continue to be happier together.


i might have too make a video, cause i might be home a lot too, but even if i watch them all day i still wont know what is normal or not normal, ive never really got to watch budgies before, i will of course separate them if i have too, but like you i hope they are just happy together and in the same cage, never changed it yet and even when i do they will have such a big cage i feel like they wont fight at all, at least 42"x 32"x 32", since it will be hand build, i can build it whatever will fit in my apartment lol, i hate having animals in small cages, even my rabbit has a whole room to him self lol. Any ways, thanks for the help, Ill have to take a video and post it if they are doing the same tomorrow.


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## Blingy

Zigzagma said:


> i might have too make a video, cause i might be home a lot too, but even if i watch them all day i still wont know what is normal or not normal, ive never really got to watch budgies before, i will of course separate them if i have too, but like you i hope they are just happy together and in the same cage, never changed it yet and even when i do they will have such a big cage i feel like they wont fight at all, at least 42"x 32"x 32", since it will be hand build, i can build it whatever will fit in my apartment lol, i hate having animals in small cages, even my rabbit has a whole room to him self lol. Any ways, thanks for the help, Ill have to take a video and post it if they are doing the same tomorrow.


I look forward to seeing their new, big cage when it's finished. I'm sure they'll love it. I'm the same as you and like my animals to have the biggest enclosures possible. Even though my bird cage is really big, I'm always looking at what else is available and wondering if that'd be better. Truth be known, I just really like making the best habitats for my birds that I possibly can. I love buying them new toys etc and watching them play. I can (& often do), spend hours, just sitting watching them do their thing.


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## Zigzagma

Blingy said:


> I look forward to seeing their new, big cage when it's finished. I'm sure they'll love it. I'm the same as you and like my animals to have the biggest enclosures possible. Even though my bird cage is really big, I'm always looking at what else is available and wondering if that'd be better. Truth be known, I just really like making the best habitats for my birds that I possibly can. I love buying them new toys etc and watching them play. I can (& often do), spend hours, just sitting watching them do their thing.


 I think every one should be like that, no animal wants to spend its time in a small cage, if they have to spend their lives there might as well make it as nice as possible. Ill be making my cage out of an old dresser we have, we emptied it today and Tuesday ill start making it. Then ill start to make their perch when i can find some drift wood around here . and i will post some pictures!


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## FaeryBee

*Be very careful if you are planning to use a piece of furniture to make a cage.

The wood itself may be toxic to your budgies, the stain or paint on the wood will most likely be toxic to your budgies and, depending on the type wiring you are using, that can also be toxic to your birds. 
Galvanized wire can cause heavy metal poisoning in birds.

Is there a reason why you aren't simply buying them a nice big cage?

The same goes for using drift-wood.
You must be extremely careful. Drift wood can be from a type of tree that is toxic to your birds and or be laden with salt from being in the sea.

Safe Woods for Budgies

http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-disease-illness/329225-lead-zinc-toxicoses-pet-birds.html

*


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## SmolBirb

It's great you're looking to make your budgie's home the best it can be!

Instead of making perches out of driftwood, however, it might be better just to purchase some natural wood perches or even carve the wooden dowels (and sand them down). The reason why driftwood is not recommended is because there is no knowing for sure exactly what kind of wood it came from. Some woods and barks are toxic to budgies.

If you do want to make your own perches, however, here's a link to an article about woods that are unsafe for birds:
http://www.mdvaden.com/bird_page.shtml

You also want to make sure any wood gathered has no pesticide or bugs on it.


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## Zigzagma

If i can build it, i will do so before buying, i dont waste my money when i dont have too. Well there is no paint on the inside of the dresser, and im pretty sure i am not the first person to use a china cabinet or anything since i have soon so many people use them, just need to sand the inside of it down to make sure. Plus if i am going to trust cages with paint on the bars i feel like none painted wood would be a lot safer, since i dont know what they do with the cages or how they paint them or even if they use what they say they use, plus all the plastic toys cant be that safe either since im sure they could pick off pieces of mostly any thing you give them. And drift wood i have used for all my reptiles, i boil the pieces with water and vinegar, but i will look up what no to use for types of wood. im sure i could figure out what type it is before using it. and the wire will be chicken wire with the holes no bigger then half inch.



SmolBirb said:


> It's great you're looking to make your budgie's home the best it can be!
> 
> Instead of making perches out of driftwood, however, it might be better just to purchase some natural wood perches or even carve the wooden dowels (and sand them down). The reason why driftwood is not recommended is because there is no knowing for sure exactly what kind of wood it came from. Some woods and barks are toxic to budgies.
> 
> If you do want to make your own perches, however, here's a link to an article about woods that are unsafe for birds:
> Bird; Birds: Safe, Toxic Trees, Woods. Safe Tree Wood. Parrots. Parrot cages.
> 
> You also want to make sure any wood gathered has no pesticide or bugs on it.


 Thanks for the website, i read it and it makes me kind of worried to use the dresser, its pressed wood, might not be painted but i guess there would still be chemicals in that type of wood... so i will be buying wood that is for sure not sprayed with any thing and is cut clean. so i can just not worry and i see apple is safe to use, we can just use whats in the back yard since we would know its clean, but do i have to shave it down? get rid of the bark? or do i keep it on? its not clear on that in the website. and i will make sure to use the right wire, ill look it up before buying, thanks again guys, you are all such great help, im glad i kept talking


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## FaeryBee

*The purpose of this forum is to promote the best practices for the health and well-being of budgies.

Please keep that in mind when you respond to any Talk Budgie Staff posts in the future. 

In addition the the links to the Safe Woods and Heavy Metal Poisoning provided in my earlier post, please take the time to read the information in this link:

http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles...e-aviary-wire-mesh-must-safe-your-budgie.html*


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## Zigzagma

FaeryBee said:


> *The purpose of this forum is to promote the best practices for the health and well-being of budgies.
> 
> Please keep that in mind when you respond to any Talk Budgie Staff posts in the future.
> 
> In addition the the links to the Safe Woods and Heavy Metal Poisoning provided in my earlier post, please take the time to read the information in this link:
> 
> http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles...e-aviary-wire-mesh-must-safe-your-budgie.html*


Thanks, couldn't find anything here, should of searched but i googled it and now have to find a place that sells stainless steel mesh... if i cant, ill just buy a new cage, i guess... really rather not lol Thanks again every one . would the vinegar trick actually work?, I've read it won't?


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## FaeryBee

*Excellent -- it sounds as though you are now on the right track with regard to safe woods and metals for your project.

With regard to removing the galvanization from the wire, the vinegar will *help* to remove the zinc but there is no guarantee it will remove it all.
This is why I always recommend using Stainless Steel Wire Mesh for anyone who plans to build their own cages.

Best wishes!*


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## Zigzagma

Hello every one!!, so all is doing well, Moose, Goose (Together) and Sweety (Alone) have become very comfortable in their new home, still calling for each other quiet a lot though, but seems to not harm any thing. They will now eat out of my hands and will come pretty quick.

Well sweety will, if she is not mad at me, she seems to like being mad randomly, wont look at me till i give her time to cool down, then is all over my hand to eat.

But they are scared of my hand with out the food, how can i get them to not fear the hand, sweety does't mind me putting it next to her, but wont jump on and don't want to force her, so how do i go about getting her to jump on with out the food? Moose and Goose they will run away if i don't have food for sure, no question about it, but that's ok, im still working with them, its Sweety that's doing very well but seems to not want any thing to do with me on less i have millet, so how do i do it with out millet?, or keep using the millet and give it time? and can any one tell me if sweety is female or male? shes the Grey English Budgie


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## FaeryBee

*From what I can see of Sweety's cere in the picture you posted, she is definitely female.

It takes time for any budgie to become trusting enough to choose to get on your hand without having positive reinforcement. 
Think about how long it takes even a dog to perform specific behaviors without being given a treat.  
Dogs want to please their owners and budgies do not have that innate desire.

Please take a look at the information in the threads below:

http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles...g/315073-positive-reinforcement-training.html

http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-training-bonding/315065-basics-clicker-training.html*


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## Zigzagma

FaeryBee said:


> *From what I can see of Sweety's cere in the picture you posted, she is definitely female.
> 
> It takes time for any budgie to become trusting enough to choose to get on your hand without having positive reinforcement.
> Think about how long it takes even a dog to perform specific behaviors without being given a treat.
> Dogs want to please their owners and budgies do not have that innate desire.
> 
> Please take a look at the information in the threads below:
> 
> http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles...g/315073-positive-reinforcement-training.html
> 
> http://www.talkbudgies.com/articles-budgie-training-bonding/315065-basics-clicker-training.html*


 That's what i figured, thanks . Well i don't really think she is ready for clicker trainer, nor do i think i want to do it, i tried to do it with my cat and i feel like i wasn't good at it, not that the cat wasn't, so not sure if that will work for me, im going to try and use the word good as the clicker noise. I was more wondering if its a bad idea to just let them go to town for a few days on millet when its in my hand?. I don't force her on my hand to eat either, they all come on there own, she will even sit in the open door way of her cage and eat out of my hand and she does let me pet her stomach, but not sure if she thinks she has to let me or shes just does't care. i hope im not pushing it to much, i do move away if she moves and if she turns around i leave her alone.


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## FaeryBee

*Clicker training isn't for everyone and I certainly understand that.

I would not recommend allowing the budgies to have as much millet as they want from your hand. Millet really should be given as a special treat -- it's fattening and to budgies it's like candy. If you allow the budgies to eat too much millet, they will start ignoring their healthy foods.

You can offer them their high quality seed mix in your hand rather than putting it in their dishes -- that way they won't be overfed.

Remember that each budgie should be getting no more then 1 1/2 to 2 teaspoons per budgie of their high quality seed mix per day.*


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## Zigzagma

FaeryBee said:


> *Clicker training isn't for everyone and I certainly understand that.
> 
> I would not recommend allowing the budgies to have as much millet as they want from your hand. Millet really should be given as a special treat -- it's fattening and to budgies it's like candy. If you allow the budgies to eat too much millet, they will start ignoring their healthy foods.
> 
> You can offer them their high quality seed mix in your hand rather than putting it in their dishes -- that way they won't be overfed.
> 
> Remember that each budgie should be getting no more then 1 1/2 to 2 teaspoons per budgie of their high quality seed mix per day.*


I feel like im starving them if i dont put any in the dish and they have to wait for me to eat... i know ill do it often, but still, i rather them be able to eat when they want too, i will stop giving so much millet though lol, im glad you told me. Ill use their seed mix, i know she wont be as excited, but im sure it will still work. 
And you say two teaspoons, but what if they pick threw a lot of it, i know that's the bad part of using a seed mix, but i doubt they will go on the pellets now, so if there is only 2 teaspoons, they will probably knock like 1 1/2 out lol.

The trusting process is confusing lol, they say not to lure them in with food, but to use food to let them trust you and then to use food to get them on your finger, i feel like that is luring them, but then you cant get them to trust you with out the food lol, just confusing lol.

She is doing very well and seems very healthy and not over whelmed with how im doing stuff, but i do like to hear others opinion, so thanks . this thread will probably stay open and i will keep using it till the end


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## FaeryBee

*Who is this "they" that indicates you should not "lure" your budgies with food? Any good pet trainer knows that food-motivation and positive reinforcement is the main way we train any animal?

With regard to kicking or throwing food out of their seed dishes, that is normal. The budgies should then be foraging on the newspaper on top of the bottom grate in their cage to find the seeds. Foraging is instinctive behavior for budgies.

Putting mash on the high quality seed mix helps the budgies get used to the taste so they associate it with being a food source.
Using Zupreem Fruity Pellets (Canary Size) is recommended to help budgies learn to eat pellets. The tiny size is like seeds and most budgies seem to like them.

Please be sure you read all of the Budgie Articles and Stickies throughout the forum.
The information in them is going to be extremely helpful to you throughout your journey with your feathered friends.*


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## Zigzagma

FaeryBee said:


> *Who is this "they" that indicates you should not "lure" your budgies with food? Any good pet trainer knows that food-motivation and positive reinforcement is the main way we train any animal?
> 
> With regard to kicking or throwing food out of their seed dishes, that is normal. The budgies should then be foraging on the newspaper on top of the bottom grate in their cage to find the seeds. Foraging is instinctive behavior for budgies.
> 
> Putting mash on the high quality seed mix helps the budgies get used to the taste so they associate it with being a food source.
> Using Zupreem Fruity Pellets (Canary Size) is recommended to help budgies learn to eat pellets. The tiny size is like seeds and most budgies seem to like them.
> 
> Please be sure you read all of the Budgie Articles and Stickies throughout the forum.
> The information in them is going to be extremely helpful to you throughout your journey with your feathered friends.*


 "They" are you guys, it says in your sticky not to use food as a lure. "How to tame a budgie who is afraid of people". Please don't assume i didn't read your stickys after i have been told many times or maybe do update on your sticky's every so often so you remember what they say and so you can delete stuff like the video link that does not work any more. And if i use food to make it come to me and trust me, that is a lure, is it not?.


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## FaeryBee

*Please remember that our staff here are volunteers and not on-line 24/7. 

We do our best to keep our stickies up to date.
We've read the stickies and articles but we don't necessary re-read each one on a regular basis.
I admit I have not read the one you mentioned for quite some time so I will definitely check it out.

If at times you happen to find a video link or other link that doesn't work, please copy that link and either send it to me in a Private Message or notify us in the Contact the Staff forum so we can address the issues. We rely on our members to help in this manner.

Thanks!*


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## SmolBirb

I think that sticky meant to not just lure your budgie out when it isn't comfortable yet. It says in the same sentence to use food to establish trust, which means that rewarding your bird that is comfortable with you enough already when they sit on you for a bit etc.

I can understand how it would be misleading, though. But using food to reward birds for good behaviour is one of the best ways to earn your budgie's trust. Using food to "catch" a budgie, however will ruin your relationship with it and it most likely will equate that food with a bad experience.


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## Zigzagma

SmolBirb said:


> I think that sticky meant to not just lure your budgie out when it isn't comfortable yet. It says in the same sentence to use food to establish trust, which means that rewarding your bird that is comfortable with you enough already when they sit on you for a bit etc.
> 
> I can understand how it would be misleading, though. But using food to reward birds for good behaviour is one of the best ways to earn your budgie's trust. Using food to "catch" a budgie, however will ruin your relationship with it and it most likely will equate that food with a bad experience.


 I understand the whole give a treat when they do something good idea. Its more the hold my hand out with food in it and lure them into landing on my hand, since its scared any other time, which would make it a lure, to do something its to scared to do, which it says not to do in the sticky.

Any ways, i get it, i understand it now, kind of, i find it a little oxymoron, "don't use food to lure it in, but use food to lure it to your hand to trust you..." kind of weird they would even use the word lure in the sticky... maybe re-do it or update it. it was a good read for sure and wish i could of watched the video, see what she said, but all is good, ill keep working the way we have been. I'm trying to find something healthier then millet, but she don't seem to want to try any fruits or anything just yet.

And sorry Faerybee, i really thought you would of known where i got the whole luring from, but i guess there is a lot on this website and i didn't know you needed a bit of help from us to keep the site up to date, if i knew that i would of gladly mentioned the video to you in a msg.,


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## FaeryBee

*I'm very sorry the sticky was so confusing.

I've re-read the sticky now and made some changes to the wording as well as eliminating the links to videos and the Original Poster's blog which no longer work.

Hopefully the wording will make more sense now.

If there are any parts that I missed which still need to be corrected, please don't hesitate to let me know.*


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## Zigzagma

FaeryBee said:


> *I'm very sorry the sticky was so confusing.
> 
> I've re-read the sticky now and made some changes to the wording as well as eliminating the links to videos and the Original Poster's blog which no longer work.
> 
> Hopefully the wording will make more sense now.
> 
> If there are any parts that I missed which still need to be corrected, please don't hesitate to let me know.*


 Not a big deal, that's why i got a thread open, just to get a bit of help. There is a lot to read and to understand to do stuff correctly. I will read it over again, if i see anything ill msg you about it .

And Maybe there will be some stupid question or stuff i could of read about before making a new post, but i'm just trying to do the best for my birds. So please have patience with me!! It's definitely different to have a bird for a pet.


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## JRS

The using food as positive reinforcement versus not using it as a lure, I understand as this:

It’s fine to offer food in your hand as an encouragement for a bird to step onto your hand, with the aim of demonstrating that your hand isn’t a dangerous place.

It’s not ok for example, with a bird who is not willing to leave its cage, to trick the bird into stepping on your hand for food inside the cage, and then whilst it’s distracted eating, to move your hand (plus bird) outside the cage. This will only lessen trust.
It IS ok with such a bird, to hold or place food around or just outside an open cage door, to encourage it to venture outside.

Basically, we can use food to tempt or encourage the bird, but should not use it to mislead them.


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## Zigzagma

JRS said:


> The using food as positive reinforcement versus not using it as a lure, I understand as this:
> 
> It's fine to offer food in your hand as an encouragement for a bird to step onto your hand, with the aim of demonstrating that your hand isn't a dangerous place.
> 
> It's not ok for example, with a bird who is not willing to leave its cage, to trick the bird into stepping on your hand for food inside the cage, and then whilst it's distracted eating, to move your hand (plus bird) outside the cage. This will only lesson trust.
> It IS ok with such a bird, to hold or place food around or just outside an open cage door, to encourage it to venture outside.
> 
> Basically, we can use food to tempt or encourage the bird, but should not use it to mislead them.


 Thanks, i think im doing good, I now have Sweety going on my finger when i say up, she had gotten treats all day for doing so and have finaly been doing it with out any reward ( she does get some when she has done it a few times in a row), 
Shes amazing, its amazing, i've had her for not even 3 weeks and she now jumps to the door for me, then waits on the stick next to it, jumps on my finger when i say up. She will stay on my finger and sit on the bed with me while i make her go from finger to finger. And like i said, not even 3 weeks yet and its incredible.

I'm hoping she will help me tame the other two in a few months, i really think she will help a lot actually.


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## JRS

That's amazing progress for 3 weeks, congratulations!

Seeing Sweety at ease with you (and seeing that they're missing out on the treats) should encourage your other two to 'take a leap of faith' and follow suit. 
There is a possibility that Sweety, may become much more interested in them than with you though, so when that time arrives, bear in mind potential flock dynamics, keep up with your 1:1 interactions and observe them closely. 

http://www.talkbudgies.com/new-budgie-arrivals/392426-your-harmonious-flock.html
http://www.talkbudgies.com/new-budgie-arrivals/295177-introducing-two-budgies.html


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## Zigzagma

JRS said:


> That's amazing progress for 3 weeks, congratulations!
> 
> Seeing Sweety at ease with you (and seeing that they're missing out on the treats) should encourage your other two to 'take a leap of faith' and follow suit.
> There is a possibility that  Sweety, may become much more interested in them than with you though, so when that time arrives, bear in mind potential flock dynamics, keep up with your 1:1 interactions and observe them closely.
> 
> http://www.talkbudgies.com/new-budgie-arrivals/392426-your-harmonious-flock.html
> http://www.talkbudgies.com/new-budgie-arrivals/295177-introducing-two-budgies.html


 Thank you, it really blows my mind how good shes doing, shes an amazing little bird .

Im hoping it kind of starts a monkey see monkey do type thing, but that will only be in a few months, trying to bond as much as possible, hopefully she doesnt become to attached to them, she wont be in the same cage or even room at bed time, so i dont want her sad , and i figured with only having three im less likely to lose her to the other two, i hope lol, lots of hope lol


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## Zigzagma

( old post but i hope people notice) Hi every one. So i have some bad news, we have lost 2 of our budgies a few weeks ago. Moose had to be put down because of a growth in his throat and i decided to give Goose away to a woman that had a few budgies and would have a boyfriend for her, she was very sad and figured that would help her a lot. Now we have a lovebird, the stupid owner clipped his wings and give him up cause it was to hard to deal with a bird that couldnt fly... dont ask, i dont understand either, obviously some people are not right in the head. Any ways, she did such a bad job, one is way shorter then the other, cuts way passed the flight feathers, hes not in pain, very happy bird and all, i was just wondering how long it would take to grow back you think?. Also he doesnt like his cage, they are both out all the time, Sweetie and Sunshine (is his name). We keep both the cages open just in case they feel they want to go in, he will gladly go in Sweeties cage and stay there all day, but he will not go in his with out freaking out the whole time, wont eat or drink while hes in it. I dont want to cage them together, just in case, cause i know Sweetie might not mind him to much, but they still fight a bit, she will fallow him every wheres, eat together, sit together and all, but hey still have their moments, so i keep them separate. How can i make sunshine see his cage the same as he see's sweeties?, or maybe switch cages, see if Sweetie will mind or not?


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