# Antifungal Experiences



## ChickWas (May 6, 2021)

Hello, could anyone give me their own experience when it came to dealing with Candida / AGY and administering their budgie antifungal medicine? I've been told to give itraconazole for two months, once daily. Things sort of ebb and flow in terms of Wasabi's health. Some days she is fine, other days she rebounds and spends it very sick. Her poops too are ever-changing, some days they're firm (though still not healthy), other days it's just diarrhea.

I know antifungal is long term treatment, but how soon can I start to expect to see her really starting to get better? It's almost like some days she's unable to digest enough food, as her poops will be very small, and she'll spend a lot of the day begging for food - despite having all the seeds, pellets and mash she could want or need. 

It has been 15 days since we started treatment. First 10 days was metronidazole (twice daily) and itraconazole (once daily). These last 5 days have just been itraconazole. I start her back on the metronidazole on the 12th July.

I'm also thoroughly confused because whilst the main issue Wasabi has is yeast, when she was on metronidazole, she was doing much, much better. Her poops every day were firm, and she was able to eat and get the energy she needed. I'm currently not giving metronidazole as the vet said to give her a 7 day break, then resume it again. I have noticed a sharp decline in her health once the metronidazole stopped, but I'm confused as to why that would be the case, since she's affected by yeast, not bacteria? Or could it be a combination? If so, just so I can bring it up to my vet, is there any antibiotics that people here have used and had good results with? I feel like metronidazole merely keeps whatever is affecting her at bay, but as soon as we stop the medicine, whatever it is comes back with a vengeance.


----------



## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*I’m going to flag this to a member who treated her precious budgie for AGY for years.*


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

The itraconazole is dealing with the Candida and to my knowledge is probably not doing much for the AGY as the AGY is not responsive to most antifungal meds, the Amphotericin B a/k/a Fungizone, is the only antifungal I am aware of that is really effective against an active AGY infection. It is not available everywhere so other things may be used but will not be as effective. It is quite common for there to be a secondary bacterial infection with AGY so antibiotics are also needed. AGY is a tough thing to treat and there can be many ups and downs.


----------



## ChickWas (May 6, 2021)

Cody said:


> The itraconazole is dealing with the Candida and to my knowledge is probably not doing much for the AGY as the AGY is not responsive to most antifungal meds, the Amphotericin B a/k/a Fungizone, is the only antifungal I am aware of that is really effective against an active AGY infection. It is not available everywhere so other things may be used but will not be as effective. It is quite common for there to be a secondary bacterial infection with AGY so antibiotics are also needed. AGY is a tough thing to treat and there can be many ups and downs.


Thank you so much. Vet wanted Amphotericin B but it's not available in this country, but you mentioning Fungizone has just given me a bunch of hope, as there are bottles of Fungizone for sale here (50mg, so I'll ask the vet if this is too strong or not). I'll message the vet now and ask what she thinks.


----------



## ChickWas (May 6, 2021)

I asked the vet, she said it's 100% not available here, and she knows because she was desperately looking for it herself. I can't order it online as it's not allowed, so I'd have to fly out to whatever country has it and bring it back in person, but I can't. I don't know anyone flying that would be able to bring it here either. To rub salt in the wound, isn't amphotericin b easily expirable once opened? So I'd be able to use it for about a week until it's no longer viable. Bah. I don't know if Wasabi is going to make it. I'm weighing her tomorrow and if she's gone down in weight, I think I just have to start thinking of palliative care. It's like she's constantly hungry despite eating a lot. Only other option is to ask whether long term metronidazole treatment is a thing, cause that's the only solution that gets her back to being a normal bird. But then I need to ask myself whether it's fair on her to grab her twice a day and give her medicine without a light at the end of the tunnel, and how long can I keep this up with the impact it has on my day to day life.


----------



## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

I did not have an issue with the expiration of the Ampho B when I used it, maybe it makes a difference on where it is compounded, my vet has it compounded special for the birds. Ask the vet if she thinks Wasabi would benefit from some digestive enzymes, I have given them to several birds when the vet deemed it an advantage. I was given a product called Prozyme from the vet but it is not a prescription item, I think it's this https://www.amazon.com/Prozyme-All-...hild=1&keywords=prozyme&qid=1625869052&sr=8-3 I was only given a few tablespoons so I am not 100% sure this is the same product .


----------



## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

ChickWas said:


> Hello, could anyone give me their own experience when it came to dealing with Candida / AGY and administering their budgie antifungal medicine? I've been told to give itraconazole for two months, once daily. Things sort of ebb and flow in terms of Wasabi's health. Some days she is fine, other days she rebounds and spends it very sick. Her poops too are ever-changing, some days they're firm (though still not healthy), other days it's just diarrhea.
> 
> I know antifungal is long term treatment, but how soon can I start to expect to see her really starting to get better? It's almost like some days she's unable to digest enough food, as her poops will be very small, and she'll spend a lot of the day begging for food - despite having all the seeds, pellets and mash she could want or need.
> 
> ...


Hello, whilst AGY is a difficult diagnosis to be given it can be minimised with a vigilant outlook and management.
Firstly get some probiotics, these are a must for good gut health.Give daily.
Humidity is also a huge problem ,my bird nearly always had an attack when the weather turned humid.
Also when moulting, as this can compromise your budgies health and immunity.
Can you possibly email a reliable relative, friend, or petshop that sells other treatments with the possibility of them posting to you?
Clean perches, cage and all food containers, water dish regularly as possible.
When your budgie is showing first signs, ravenous, lethargy, fluffed up, vomit transfer to a small hospital cage, heat is huge help when your budgie is unwell, this goes for any ailment.Use an old light that is on a bendable stalk pointing towards where budgie perches, cover cage .
place against the cage .
I used antifungal , probiotic, varied fresh diet, if possible keep your budgie slightly overweight this allows a backup when unwell.If you can regularly weigh and record his weight.This is a good guide also.
Does your vet check his poop for signs of shedding?

My vet also gave a crop feed to give him a start, that was what he needed to start him eating and recovering.
Good luck , you learn quickly to recognise your birds behaviour patterns, mine started to sleep and want to be cuddled up next me to keep warm, I was blessed with an amazing avian vet who was always on call for me, had meds on hand always, probiotics daily, love and warmth.
Hope this can be of some help.


----------



## ChickWas (May 6, 2021)

I'll look into the enzymes, Cody.



Budget baby said:


> Hello, whilst AGY is a difficult diagnosis to be given it can be minimised with a vigilant outlook and management.


I'll reply to this line by line.

I give Wasabi and Chick probiotics with their mash, and sprinkle it over their seeds and pellets daily, for about a month now. We live in a desert region so humidity isn't an issue except for maybe two days out of the year. I do feel like everything got so much worse once Wasabi started her moult, it took so much energy out of her and then her health plummeted. I don't even know what treatment I'd be able to get, I can't find amphotericin b for sale in the UK, though I plan on asking my mum to ask local vets to see if they stock it, but the vet told me the amphotericin b would be confiscated at customs here. I clean their food and water bowls daily, change the cage sheets every other day, and deep clean the cage every two weeks. I keep the AC on 25c and the edge of the cage closest to the window is warmer, because outside temperatures reach high 40 degrees celsius. Vet did a fecal smear, that's about all we're equipped to do in this awful country.

Wasabi weighed 28g, same as they weighed a few weeks ago, same as they've weighed throughout this entire thing. When I got her as a baby, she was bigger and heavier than Chick, her frame was always larger. But these past months, she's lagged behind in development so much. Chick feels solid and weighty in my hands at a comfortable 35g, whereas Wasabi is just a shell of a bird. Is AGY going to be something I need to babysit throughout Wasabi's lifetime? Could Chick be an AGY-carrier, and if so, does that mean any new birds I get will eventually contract AGY from being fed / feeding Chick? Because either Wasabi got this from her parents / the bird mill, or she picked it up from Chick as a baby, because Chick regurgitated and fed her right up until she was weaned. This all started in March and I've not separated the two as I honestly can't spare the money for another cage. Chick hasn't had a single off-day, she's always been so healthy, which makes me wonder if she's asymptomatic and immune, or she's the carrier.


----------

