# Need some serious help!



## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

Hello!

This is going to be a bit of a long text, I think.

So, about 5 or so months ago, me and my girlfriend bought a budgie.

This was my first budgie, so I didn't know much about them initially. After buying one at the store with a pretty small cage, I started doing research online into proper care, cages, how to tame them, etc.

First of all I should say, I've previously owned and interacted more with dogs and cats. I'm more used to showing dominance and confidence in front of animals, so my first reaction after getting a budgie was more in line with that.

I've later realized that this was a big mistake. These prey animals just don't seem to work along the same concepts. This made me make quite a few mistakes with our bird initially.

But anyway, I started approaching the bird slowly over time, hanging out next to his cage, talking to him, singing, reading, etc. The progress was there, but it was very slow and frustrating in my eyes (remember, I'm used to dogs and cats at this point).

There was some progress though, and before long the budgie started eating millet out of my hand (initially he didn't even understand what it was!). Later on, he stood on my finger and ate millet out of my hand as well! I was super happy at this point, excited about what the future could hold in terms of our budgie being tame, flying around the apartment and interacting with us.

At this point, I started kind of playing with him more. Like I would try to "catch" him in my hand (what i mean here is that I would kind of closer it around him slowly while he would stand in my palm), and he would kind of jump away, getting free of it, but them would pretty willingly step on my finger again, and I would do the same thing. Then at one point I would actually catch him (gently hold him there), take him out of the cage and put him on top of the computer monitor, where he would hang out and walk around a bit. I considered this as playing with him, like we were both having fun, but I later on read from many sources that they don't like being "grabbed" at all.

I'm assuming he didn't either, because ever since that moment it doesn't seem we've been progressing with taming at all. Not only that, we went backwards with progress many times actually. Soon after this even, we actually bought him a much bigger cage, since I've learned that the one he was in way WAY too small. 

These two events seemed to have made him go back to what he was like when we first bought him. He was scared, nervous, upon putting my hand into the cage he would fly around and wouldn't step on my finger anymore willingly. I thought this must be because of the new cage, since his environment has changed drastically.

I gave him time, left him alone a bit more, hoping the problem is him needing some time to adjust to the new cage. Since then I started talking to him again, moving the cage closer to my computer workspace (so he's really close to me while I work, where I also sometimes talk to him, put my hand close to the cage, etc.) but he's just... weird.

Ever since we got him (before the "grabbing him" incident), he's always been super quiet and not really doing much. He just stands there all day and doesn't do anything. If I'm not the first person to interact with him he will barely make any noise. We bought him a bunch of different natural perches and toys with the bigger cage, and he didn't touch one toy a single time.. It's been more than 2 months. I'm trying to tame him again, but it's just so hard..

Every time he's home alone for a couple of days when me and my GF are away, it seems like when we come back he's reset himself back to when we first got him. It's gotten so bad that every time I uncover his cage (we cover him with a sheet during the night), he goes absolutely crazy in the cage, flying around like someone is trying to kill him... what the hell?? He didn't used to do this, and I have no idea why he's doing it now.

If I put my hand in the cage nowadays he flies around like crazy too, he BARELY eats millet out of my hand (and I have to wait for him to come close to it for like 20-30 minutes, and my hand is KILLING ME, holding it there for so long). If I try to get him to step up, like I said he will fly around like I'm trying to hurt him, but if I slowly talk nicely to him and wait for him to fly around and relax and put it closer again, eventually he will step up and stand there fine, even whistling back to me if I make this distinct noise I do that he usually responds to.

I'm just so confused. 

I tried approaching him super slowly (never pushing it if he's uncomfortable, always backing off) with pretty good results, but it seems like they always completely reset as soon as I'm not there with him every single day working on this (sometimes I just CANT, as I'm not home)

I tried approaching him a bit more directly, insisting even if he gets scared, and almost always he calms down eventually and "gets over it" and will seem fine by it.

It's even more frustrating because we've interacted sooo often already, hanging out on my finger/hand, eating millet out of it, I even took him out of the cage 2-3 times while on my finger (although he flew off it as soon as he was out).

It's just so frustrating and disappointing. I'm spending so much time with him, preparing fresh veggies for him almost every single morning, having him close to me, interacting with him all the time, and I feel like we've made BARELY any progress at all. I can't imagine what it would be like if I weren't working from home and had all this time to interact with him.

I also want to mention that in the last 1-2 weeks or so he started molting. I've read that this makes them more anxious and scared. How true is this? Does this start as soon as you see any pin feathers popping up on his head? Because this would actually explain a lot in terms of his nervousness recently.

Does anyone have any advice on what to do, or what I'm doing wrong?

Thank you!


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*Hi, and welcome to Talk Budgies.

As you've now learned, interacting with a bird is MUCH different than interacting with dogs and cats. I'm glad you've done some research and highly encourage you to take the time to read all of the stickies at the top of each forum section as well as all the budgie articles posted in the forum. 
These are great resources for budgie owners.

Budgies need a regular schedule and consistency.
Having a regular time for bed and regular time for getting up is important.

Taming and Bonding with a bird is not always an easy undertaking and is going to take a great deal of time and patience. You must work at the budgie's pace no matter how frustrating that becomes. 
Going "backward" in the process in normal.

How old is the budgie now?
When they are molting, they are not feeling particularly well. The pin feathers itch, they are more tired (it takes lots of energy to grow new feathers) and they can be more anxious, scared, aggressive and/or territorial.

It sounds as though both you and the budgie could use a break from interaction with you trying to handle him.

Put the cage as close to your desk as possible and when you are in the room, sing, read or talk to him while you are working. 
You may find that he'll start coming over closer to where you are if he doesn't feel like it is going to encourage you to make more overt overtures.

Once you've done this for a week or so and see how he reacts, then start putting your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to him.

Basically, you're going back to the beginning with your taming/bonding process. Once he's more comfortable then you can move to putting your hand in the cage OR you could open the cage and give him the option of coming out on his own.

Putting perches on the outside of the cage, a playground on top of the cage (or near the cage if the cage doesn't have a flat top) with a toy and treat can encourage your budgie to explore.

Not all budgies want to be held, handled or interact with humans in the way you obviously wish. I have several. A couple like to come and sit on me and some of the others never want to interact in that manner. I adapt to each one's personality.*


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

*Need help*

Hi, I read that your budgie is home alone for a few days at a time, this is not good for your budgie, budgies are a flock bird.They are social and need company.Silence, or very quiet is a sign of danger to Budgies.He will be very confused.
If you have to go away can you arrange for sombody to come and check on him?
Also leave a radio on for him for comfort, is his cage covered when he is left alone?This is not ideal either,nor being left u ncovered at night.
You have been given great tips in reading the training and bonding stickies please do so.
Look forward to hearing more from you soon.


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

Does anyone know why he might be so calm all day? Barely making any noise, not playing with anything, etc?

A lot of guides say to not interact with him too much when you first bring him home, or just in general that approaching is best done when he's completely relaxed and they will do this when they jump around and sing a lot etc. Mine doesn't really do that often.

It's just very rare. Is something wrong? He's been like this for like 5 months.


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

FaeryBee said:


> *
> 
> How old is the budgie now?
> When they are molting, they are not feeling particularly well. The pin feathers itch, they are more tired (it takes lots of energy to grow new feathers) and they can be more anxious, scared, aggressive and/or territorial.
> ...


He's somewhere around 8-10 months old, I believe.

He almost always comes as close as possible to me when his cage is set close to me while I work. Is it normal for him to fly away a bit if I try to get him to step up, but then when I keep trying for 2-4 times, he eventually hops on and stays on my finger? That's what we usually did, but I am taking it back a couple of steps again. I will try going from the start, and slower.

This does feel really frustrating, as I've probably done this about 3-5 times with him already, but I think I get happy about the progress and start pushing it too hard.

"You may find that he'll start coming over closer to where you are if he doesn't feel like it is going to encourage you to make more overt overtures."

Do you mean that if he starts seeing that every time he comes closer I try to increase the interaction he might get discouraged further?

Also, when you say:

"Once you've done this for a week or so and see how he reacts, then start putting your hand on the outside of the cage when you talk to him."

How should he react? How do I know he's comfortable enough for me to start increasing the level of interaction? I know the OBVIOUS signs like making himself look thinner etc, but what about signs that he's obviously relaxed and open to more interaction?

Thank you!


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*At 8-10 months old, a budgie is going to be becoming more independent - that is normal.

It's hard to give exact instructions for each thing you do, as every budgie is different.

Generally, when a budgie comes close to me on the inside of the cage, when I move my hand toward it on the outside of the cage and the bird moves away or pins its eyes then I stop. 
If the budgie stays where it is, then sometimes I'll try the blinking game with it.
Look at the budgie somewhat sideways and then blink very slowly. Usually, the bird will mimic you when it feels relaxed.

Once the bird is relaxed, you can put your hand close to it on the outside of the cage and see if it moves away or comes closer.
Many of these things you just have to try and move forward or back off as is appropriate.
Let the budgie give you cues and don't push it -- take things slow.

Always be relaxed and move calmly and slowly. Talking to the budgie in a calm manner when you interact with it is helpful.
Budgies also like high-pitched baby-talk. 

Look at the stickies. It may well be that your budgie might respond well to clicker-training. *


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

I've read the stickies, they helped a lot 

So I should never ever push it? Sometimes it seems like if I insist the budgie will "get over it" and start being fine with it. Although I sometimes consider him just doing that because it seems like he should just "get it over with" and ultimately he's not really bonding with me.

So I'm assuming this is a very important rule, ALWAYS take it at his own pace?

But then, what about this:

Sometimes he would get scared and fly around when I would try to change his water bottle or when I uncover his cage in the morning. If I go at his pace I would never really open it unless he doesn't get scared, right? Or is that rule mostly for trying to "handle him/interact with him"?


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

*Take things slowly*


As much as we are excited and want to share our enthusiasm with our budgie we need to remember, he is a living creature with his own thought patterns and feelings.Yes they do have feelings.
For a budgie that has come into a new home everything is scary, imagine how you feel going to a new place of employment not knowing the layout, the routine e.t.c.this is what he is experiencing.
Some birds take longer than others to become relaxed and happy around you, some are actually shy and not wanting to sit and chill.
Budgies are very good at picking up your frame of mind, your mood.If you are tense, showing anxiety he will know this , also it will have an effect on how he will interact with you.
You can't expect him to learn after three or four goes.
Never attempt to clean cage change water and feed dishes if you are in hurry, if you are rushing these tasks he will become flighty himself.
It won't always be like that ,once he realizes what you are doing, when your hand is placed inside his cage you are not trying to catch him or hurt him.Flight is only his response remember.When you go to uncover his cage in the morning, call out, whistle to let him know you are there, he will learn that means you will be uncovering his cage .Gently reveal his cage to the day, Doing step up training should be frequentm if he does do it reward him with praise, or a treat.If he does not step up do not keep insisting or chase him around the cage.Simply walk away and try again later.
Hope this is of help.


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

Thanks for the reply, and it does help!

I am already doing most of these things, softly speaking to him when uncovering the cage, letting him know I will do it ~10s before by calling out his name, saying good morning etc.

Is it normal that for a period of time he is okay with something, and then suddenly not anymore? A while ago uncovering the cage was completely fine, but then at some points he started being scared of it. 

Moving backwards like this can be normal?


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

FaeryBee said:


> *At 8-10 months old, a budgie is going to be becoming more independent - that is normal.
> 
> It's hard to give exact instructions for each thing you do, as every budgie is different.
> 
> ...


Question, what does it mean if he "pins his eyes"?

If he's hanging with me in the cage and is close to me and being nice and relaxed, and I slowly put my hand to the side of the cage and he starts looking at it a bit somewhat nervously, should I keep it there waiting for him to relax, or put it away and approach some other time/day, until he doesn't react to the hand at all, and then AT THAT point keep it there?


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

*Bonding*

Budgies can have night frights, budgies do not have good night vision this is why they go to bed early in the wild basically with the sun.Perhaps you accidently moved his cage, hit it before uncovering it, these sort of moves can and will frighten them also loud sudden noises can cause this also.
When a budgie is excited he will look at you and his eyes will dilate and contract, they can also do this if they are frightened or angry and ready to bite.You will learn to judge what mood he is in by his actions.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*"Pinning" is when the pupil of the eye contracts and gets very tiny.

If you put your hand on the cage and he responds nervously, you can leave it there for a couple of minutes to see if he relaxes. 
If not, then remove it.*


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## obxdiva (Aug 11, 2020)

Budgie_Newbie, This is going to be a book... I get where you are at. I adopted a lost budgie found in my neighborhood 3 months ago and he's my first bird. I've trained dogs and horses. Both are much easier because you can use your body and touch to train them. I find bird body language is hard to read. But learning how to work with a bird is a new challenge!

I had the same progression from a small cage, (the quickest I could find in my area) to a flight cage (thank you Amazon). Once he was in the flight cage he started chirping and flying. At first I thought the flying was panicky but then I realized he was doing it to get my attention. Flying from his upper perch to a lower one and stopping for just a second to look at me. If I didn't get up and go to his cage, he would repeat. After I read online that flapping his wings in place and corner to corner flying perch to perch meant that he felt comfortable in his surroundings, I realized he is training ME. If I can't get to him right away I do this sing songy "hey what's all that flapping?" and he stops and sqwaks louder at me and waits for me to get there. It's almost a game now. Usually he's picked thru his food cup and wants more. Been trying to get him to eat Roudybush crumbles and my little seed junkie would rather pitch a fit when he's picked out his favorite seeds. He did start eating some of the seeds he used to ignore so there is some progress. Won't touch veggies. So different from a dog who will scarf down practically anything! So maybe your bird's flying is sometimes attention getting and happy to see you instead of getting away from you. 

My little guy was spooky with the cage cover too. I make sure I always go slowly, use the same good morning words, and uncover it exactly the same speed and direction every time. He settled down alot with that.

He has had some panicky flying from something big falling near his cage and some shadows over his head that looked like a prey bird flying over. Poor little guy, he flew around and clung to the cage sides with such a shriek and got such a scared look in his eye.

My little guy didn't get millet or his toys either. I feed from my hand alot in cage for short periods of time. He finally decided he liked millet and I would take a sprig and hold it thru the bars on his lowest perch by his food cup. I used the same phrase to get his attention. He soon got the idea and responds to my call. Took weeks and lots of tries.

He got pretty solid with stepping up inside the cage but I couldn't bring him out of the cage door. He would hop off. I finally put a perch outside the cage right under the open door and just sat by him. Eventually he would pop out and scurry back in on his own. Once he took off flying around the room. On his first big flight he flew across the room and clung to the curtain and froze. He was low enough that he did step up and let me carry him back to his cage. He didn't leave his cage for a week after that. I wondered if the free flight reminded him of running with the wild birds again. 

I got him another boing perch. His loves playing with the bell at the end of it. I wound it down to the cart shelf below his cage (about 3' off the floor) and he worked his way to the top of the big tote that stores his stuff. He's enjoying poking around there and his boing bell is eye level. I saw an online video on making paper toys. He likes picking up and tossing the paper balls. He dropped one to the floor. I made a big deal "uh oh it fell" and put it back on the tote top. Within a minute he dropped it again and was looking at me. This a game now. I am amazed how clever he can be. 

I feel I've made progress but he will still ignore me or hop to a corner to hide at times. I just tell him "ok be a bratty little bird" and leave him alone. Who knows what's in his little bird brain?

Compared to dogs and horses he does take enormous patience. I don't think my little guy is going to be a cuddly, sit on my shoulder bird. But trying to communicate with him and influence him is a fun challenge. In his own way he's very interactive with me. I'm considering adopting a buddy for him. I'm sure he would enjoy his own kind but I would hate to lose his attention to me. I'll see how the next few months ago. I never knew parakeets were such chatterboxes. Such happy sounds!

The Phoenix Landing Foundation has had some very good webinars on behavior, cage layout. I've learned a bunch from those. 

Don't give up and just rethink everything you know from dogs. Wish you all the best!


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

FaeryBee said:


> *"Pinning" is when the pupil of the eye contracts and gets very tiny.
> 
> If you put your hand on the cage and he responds nervously, you can leave it there for a couple of minutes to see if he relaxes.
> If not, then remove it.*


What would be considered him "relaxing"?

Just so that he doesn't constantly look at the hand, or relaxed so much that he starts slowly closing his eyes?

It's sometimes hard to read his body language, as I'm not used to budgies that much yet.


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

obxdiva said:


> Budgie_Newbie, This is going to be a book... I get where you are at. I adopted a lost budgie found in my neighborhood 3 months ago and he's my first bird. I've trained dogs and horses. Both are much easier because you can use your body and touch to train them. I find bird body language is hard to read. But learning how to work with a bird is a new challenge!
> 
> I had the same progression from a small cage, (the quickest I could find in my area) to a flight cage (thank you Amazon). Once he was in the flight cage he started chirping and flying. At first I thought the flying was panicky but then I realized he was doing it to get my attention. Flying from his upper perch to a lower one and stopping for just a second to look at me. If I didn't get up and go to his cage, he would repeat. After I read online that flapping his wings in place and corner to corner flying perch to perch meant that he felt comfortable in his surroundings, I realized he is training ME. If I can't get to him right away I do this sing songy "hey what's all that flapping?" and he stops and sqwaks louder at me and waits for me to get there. It's almost a game now. Usually he's picked thru his food cup and wants more. Been trying to get him to eat Roudybush crumbles and my little seed junkie would rather pitch a fit when he's picked out his favorite seeds. He did start eating some of the seeds he used to ignore so there is some progress. Won't touch veggies. So different from a dog who will scarf down practically anything! So maybe your bird's flying is sometimes attention getting and happy to see you instead of getting away from you.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you two are coming along very well!

Good luck with him in the future!


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## Budget baby (Jan 1, 2013)

*Bonding*

Budgies relax or show relaxation by holding their wings relaxed not looking like they want to fly away,standing on one leg with feathers slightly fluffed and eyes shut.A relaxed bird is a happy bird, play him some music, they love noise.


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

I'm just losing my patience with this bird.

In the morning today, I approached the cage while slowly calling his name, making a noise with my mouth he usually responds to with a chirp and saying good morning, like every morning, I slowly started uncovering his cage. The moment I touched the sheet, he was flying around on the inside. As I lifted it up, he was so nervous that he was flying into the cage edges, at two points he actually fell to the floor, just going nuts in the cage. The only thing I did differently to up until now, is that over the weekend I wasn't interacting with him as much, as I had chores and wasn't really home much that day (I still was a bit).

Me and my girlfriend are seriously subconsciously starting to reduce the interactions with him, because just most of the interactions with him are constantly bad most of the time time. Feeding him and uncovering the cage always is so she actually refuses to do that, because she feels like she's doing something horrible when it happens. Other interactions are mostly positive, but it's basically me keeping him next to where I work and talking to him.

I'm at a loss. This is just not improving. I was trying so hard all week last week, trying to have him next to me next to all day every day, talking to him, being super gentle and slow and everything. We are just going backwards constantly. This morning was the breaking point for me, I lost my patience. After him going absolutely NUTS in the cage FOR NO REASON WHAT SO EVER, I just turned around quickly and said **** this, which probably scared him further.

I'm starting to feel like I'm just done with even trying... There is just no point..

I dunno.. Maybe it's because he's molting, and MAYBE it's because his cage COULD be on a wall that's eye-level or even a bit higher than that. Currently it's resting on kind of a closet that's kind of eye level if I hunch down a bit (which I try to do when I get closer).

These two things/reasons are my last hope. I just can't give up. Hopefully things turn around.

Also, I have a couple of questions.

My bird never uses the cuttlefish bone or the mineral block. Never. I do feed him fresh broccoli and carrots most days, and sometimes a little bit of fruit. Is this bad? Is he supposed to be getting more minerals and vitamins? Even before I was feeding him veggies and fruit (I didn't know he needs those at the time), he never used the bone or mineral block. Is that normal?


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Your actions probably did make things worse, in reading through the posts I can feel your anger and frustration and no doubt so can your bird. Molting can be a very stressful time for budgies especially if it's a bad molt and this is a time they need to conserve their energy. When you cover the cage are you covering it on top and all sides completely? If so try leaving the front of the cage covered only about 1/3 of the way down from the top and before uncovering the cage begin talking slowly and quietly and *very slowly *pull back the cover so only the front of the cage is uncovered. If the cage is left covered on 3 sides it may help the bird to feel more comfortable. Is the cage currently in a spot where the back of the cage is against a wall, that will also make for a more secure surrounding for him. Can you post a picture of the bird and the setup? He probably does not realize what the cuttlebone or mineral block are for, which is why he is not using them. Veggies are preferable to fruit because the fruit has a lot of sugar, once in a while is ok but I would not feed fruit on a daily basis.


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*If you are frustrated and angry with your bird it is never going to learn to trust you. 
It is imperative you understand that a bird is a prey animal and NOT like a dog or a cat.
You have been given excellent advice in the previous post(s).

Please take the time to read the information in the following link.
Frustrated with your bird's behavior?

Take a couple of steps back, a few deep breaths and realize this is a tiny creature that is completely at your mercy.
It has only a cage that it considers to be its "safe" place right now and, to it, you are a large and scary human. 
When things get frustrating, try putting yourself in the bird's place and think about how you might react if you were a bird to the actions you are taking as a human. 
Things take time and patience when you are dealing with a particularly nervous budgie. *


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

First I want to mention, I haven't shown any frustration or anger towards him in more than a month, never lost my temper or got fed up in regards to him. I really tried hard, hoping for better results. That's why it was even worse when it seemed like I wasn't getting any further. But anyway:



Cody said:


> Your actions probably did make things worse, in reading through the posts I can feel your anger and frustration and no doubt so can your bird. Molting can be a very stressful time for budgies especially if it's a bad molt and this is a time they need to conserve their energy. When you cover the cage are you covering it on top and all sides completely? If so try leaving the front of the cage covered only about 1/3 of the way down from the top and before uncovering the cage begin talking slowly and quietly and *very slowly *pull back the cover so only the front of the cage is uncovered. If the cage is left covered on 3 sides it may help the bird to feel more comfortable. Is the cage currently in a spot where the back of the cage is against a wall, that will also make for a more secure surrounding for him. Can you post a picture of the bird and the setup? He probably does not realize what the cuttlebone or mineral block are for, which is why he is not using them. Veggies are preferable to fruit because the fruit has a lot of sugar, once in a while is ok but I would not feed fruit on a daily basis.


I think this really helped. Lately I have been covering the cage COMPLETELY, thinking it might be better for him due to us using the AC overnight when it's hot, so he doesn't get too cold, plus so that he gets good quality sleep and isn't bothered by any small lights when me and my GF brush our teeth etc (he goes to sleep 1-2 hours before we do). Back when the situation was better the cage was covered less.

I think due to the cage being covered more, it was completely dark inside of it, so when I uncovered it, he was much more shocked due to the light change as well.

Anyway, I covered the cage only 1/3 yesterday, and upon uncovering it extremely slowly today he only flew from the perch towards the cage side once, and he seems way less nervous in the morning in general.

Thank you for the advice!

I also focused very hard on making all my movements painfully slow when changing his water and food, and it seems like he was much much more relaxed than usual. The cage has its back against the wall, yes. I might be able to take some pictures in a couple of days.

Also, thanks FaeryBee, I read the link and all the previous posts.

Oh and yes, I feed him fruit only maybe once a month or so, and veggies 5/7 days, approximately.

There's also another problem I noticed just yesterday. When he was moving around on the perch, I noticed his feet were sometimes getting stuck on the perches. At first I was confused, but then I noticed it was probably due to his nails, as they are actually pretty long. The nails have been more or less like this when we got him, and since this is my first budgie, I didn't think anything of it at first, I thought it was normal.

However, paying attention to it now, I'm noticing that the nails of budgies I see on videos or pictures online have probably half the nail length that he has. I also noticed that he can't even really stand normally on most of the perches, since they are pretty thick (they were the only natural perches any store around had, and they have different thickness "levels" - they are not all the same). One of his toes has to be bent when standing. In other words, he definitely needs a nail cutting.

Now, I'm going to do this myself, as we sadly can't afford vets at the moment. Not to worry though, I have researched this extensively already, I know the angle they need to be cut at, I know about the veins in the nails, and have already looked at his feet through the cage and you can clearly see where they end. There is no worry of me not doing this right.

However, my question is this: Since he's already pretty scared, and also molting, when should I do this? I'm thinking I should do it as soon as possible, so that: 1. He's experiencing any potential discomfort that the nails might be causing for as little time as possible, and 2: So that he gets "stressed" as soon as possible, so that I can begin gaining his trust ASAP as well.

Is my thinking correct here? Should I wait until he gets a bit less stressed instead? Should I wait until he stops molting, as I always read that this period is stressful for him?

Again, thank you for all the advice!


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## FaeryBee (May 9, 2011)

*As you are trying to build your bird's trust and it is going through a molt right now, I would not advise trying to cut its nails.
Doing so is going going to set you back to the point where the bird is terrified of you.*


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

I wish you had written this yesterday morning :001_tongue:

The "operation" went well. He can already move and perch easier. Is it possible that he noticed we did something that helped him? He actually seems more calm and less anxious. While uncovering the covers today he almost didnt nervously move at all. He's returning noises somewhat well and seems calmer in general (not frozen with fear or something).

He actually seems a bit more vocal too, which is great.

I feel like we're progressing well, and the nail cutting didn't affect him much, besides him being maaybe a bit careful with things.

Hopefully we did a good thing, and I can move along with bonding with him as fast as possible 

Another question actually.

The reason I said he was molting was that he actually has quite a few pin feathers on his head. I would say at one point he has around 5-10. Can this actually happen without him molting? I didn't notice him losing many feathers actually. Any idea what this might have been? It seems like his pin feathers are reducing actually :S Was this just some kind of weak molt? I've never experienced it before so I'm not sure how bad it gets in terms of feather loss.


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Anytime a feather falls out you will see a pin feather where the new one is growing in. Molts range from minor to severe, 5-10 pin feathers is minor, during a more severe molt you will see many feathers lost and the bird may become more quiet and lethargic than normal and can also become crabby. During this time it is best not to encourage activity, let the bird decide how much activity he feels like doing. Providing hard boiled egg or commercially prepared egg food will help with the protein requirements during the molt. I grate the white of a hard boiled egg and they all love it.


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## Budgie_newbie (Aug 4, 2020)

A little bit of an update. 

I've changed my ways drastically. I no longer get frustrated what so ever, I am incredibly patient and understanding with my budgie. Things have improved drastically. He started being more vocal, more relaxed, would approach me and I talked to him with his cage next to me, etc.

However, lately things have worsened.

I mistakenly though he was done with molting, but he only just started it. He exploded with lots many pin feathers on his head.

He a lot more scared as well. He's actually having trouble eating, as ANY kind of smallest movement or sound (think the subtle sound of a mouse clicking sometimes scares him) will scare him off the food bowl and back onto a perch. Same thing if I ever even glance towards his direction while he's on the food bowl. This was always KIND of a problem before, but never THIS much. It seemed to have gotten worse. Is this normal behavior? 

I honestly don't understand why this would happen again, as I have seriously not gotten frustrated or angry or in any way hostile towards him what so ever. If he's ever nervous I calmly talk to him and try to make him calm down and feel better. I am trying to not engage in activity with him as much, due to the moult, so I reduced our time together pretty drastically. I do still talk to him here and there, do our little whistle noise that we do to each other and so on, but mostly I leave his cage in his spot in the house.

Could this be why he's been getting more nervous again? Should I continue our interactions like usual, despite the moult?

Any general advice about this?

Thank you!


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## Cody (Sep 5, 2013)

Has anything in the room changed, something added or taken away or moved, or moved the cage at all, sometimes even a slight change can trigger a bird to be apprehensive. Is the cage near a window where something outside could be frightening him? I would continue interaction with the bird by just talking to him and maybe play soft music until he becomes comfortable again.


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