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Go Back   Talk Budgies Forums > Budgie Talk > Budgie Breeding > Mutations and Genetics

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Mutations and Genetics Learn about budgie genetics and the wide variety of mutations.

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Old 12-22-2008, 11:26 AM
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Default Recessive Pied and Dominant Pied

I was just wondering differences between recessive and dominant pieds. i know one of the differences is the dominant pieds have light iris rings, but is that all or is there more differences? Thanks!!


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Old 12-22-2008, 06:21 PM
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I always love this website for quick and easy mutation info

Dom Pieds: http://www.****************/c_dompied.html

Roy, one of my dom pied cocks... not the best of pics, sorry


Quote:
Dominant Pied
Dominant pied budgies usually have a distinct pattern. There is always a band of clear body feathers across the lower-mid belly. This band can be very small to very large, encompassing almost the entire belly area. This band can also sometimes be irregular, not forming a complete band across the belly. There is also a band of clear feathers across the bottom of the wings. This band can be restricted to the very lower wing feathers or cover almost the entire wing area. Dominant pieds also always have a patch of clear feathers on the back of the head, usually about the size of a dime.

Genetically double-factor dominant pieds are different from the usual described above. Double-factor dominant pieds have very little markings; most of their feathers are clear. You can see examples of this below.

The irises of a dominant pied budgie turn light with maturity. This is a key factor in telling the difference between a dominant pied and a recessive pied, since recessive pieds' eyes stay a dark plum color throughout their life.

Basic Genetics:
Dominant Pied - dominant
Normal - recessive
Rec Pieds: http://www.****************/c_recpied.html

Salsa, my rec pied hen

You can see her big pied spot when she was a baby

Quote:
Recessive Pied
Recessive pied budgies have, in general, mostly clear feathers on all areas except the rump, which remains the original body color. In general there is a patch of normally colored body feathers near the bottom of the belly, with the rest of the body feathers being clear. Where there are marked feathers on the wings, these feathers are half clear near the top. The wings can have anywhere from a lot to very little marked feathers. The feathers on the head are mostly clear except sometimes for patches near the eyes and top of the head.
The recessive pied budgie's eyes are dark plum colored and never lighten with age; they always stay dark. This is how you can be sure a pied is recessive pied, since the dominant pied's eyes lighten normally with maturity. The cere of the male recessive pied also does not change normally. Adult male recessive pieds have purple ceres. Adult female recessive pieds have the normal white/tan/brown ceres.

Basic Genetics:
Normal - dominant
Recessive Pied - recessive

  #3  
Old 12-23-2008, 03:10 PM
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Another one is that dominant pieds have sort of like one colour then a white or yellow space(some have a bigger space then others) then its the first colour again. while recessive pieds also have 2 colours but one colour (which is yellow or white) is around most of their body while the other colour is only around their belly.
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:37 PM
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from your pictures Niether one are actually pied, they're both Split to Recessive pied though

being split to recessive pied they get the thumb print of the pied BUT no other pied markings on thier body

Kitty is a type 1 yellow face sky blue Split to Recessive Pied

Toby is Light Green Split to recessive pied

I am pretty certain i'm correct on their mutations - I'm not a expert but i'm getting better, hopefully Nev will see this thread and pop in and give his opinion

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Old 12-29-2008, 07:06 PM
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Toby looks like a clear flight pied to me (clear flights, pied spot) and kittly looks like a greywing dilute (yf)

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Old 12-29-2008, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindy View Post
After looking at the photos provided, Toby and Kitty are much different, and I thought they are dominant pied. Toby has a clear patch at the back of the head but not as big as Kitty's, and Toby has some yellow patches to his left vertically centered area but the green is rather thin. Kitty does not have a ring vertically and horizontally centered. Both have small iris rings but eyes are black and not plum. Both have pink legs and feet but then so do the recessives.

Well I guess Toby and Kitty are such a mix that they are different.
I think that Toby is a clearflight pied. This mutation originated on the Continent and differs from the dominant pied because it doesn't have the same clear areas on it's front, but has some frosting on it's upper body and clear flight and tail feathers. Clearflight pieds have a wide variety of markings, some have a lot of clear areas and others have very few. Kitty has some characteristics of a clearflight pied even though she doesn't have clear flight feathers so I think that she could be a clearflight that is very poorly marked. Breeders of clearflight pieds have found that some birds have only a few clear feathers but when they are bred they are proven to be clearflight pieds. The spot on the back of their heads does't tell us much because all 3 types of pied have clear areas on the back of their heads. The only way to be sure of Kitty's mutation would be to breed her to a normal and see what the chicks are like. If Kitty is not a clearflight pied the only other option is a normal split for recessive pied. Whatever Kitty's mutation is it's combined with type 2 yellow face and either greywing or cinnamon
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindy View Post
[SIZE=3][SIZE=3]Toby (the green budgie) is a dark green clearflight dominant pied -
A dominant pied and a clearflight pied are two different mutations so unless the bird has the two mutations combined the two terms should not be used together. Both mutations have a dominant breeding pattern
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:19 PM
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Question hey nev...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUUZBEE View Post
Toby looks like a clear flight pied to me (clear flights, pied spot) and kittly looks like a greywing dilute (yf)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
I think that Toby is a clearflight pied. This mutation originated on the Continent and differs from the dominant pied because it doesn't have the same clear areas on it's front, but has some frosting on it's upper body and clear flight and tail feathers. Clearflight pieds have a wide variety of markings, some have a lot of clear areas and others have very few. Kitty has some characteristics of a clearflight pied even though she doesn't have clear flight feathers so I think that she could be a clearflight that is very poorly marked. Breeders of clearflight pieds have found that some birds have only a few clear feathers but when they are bred they are proven to be clearflight pieds. The spot on the back of their heads does't tell us much because all 3 types of pied have clear areas on the back of their heads. The only way to be sure of Kitty's mutation would be to breed her to a normal and see what the chicks are like. If Kitty is not a clearflight pied the only other option is a normal split for recessive pied. Whatever Kitty's mutation is it's combined with type 2 yellow face and either greywing or cinnamon
so just to clarify my post, I want to make sure i say things right... i put yf greywing dilute, but i guess i dont need to say dilute since a greywing is a dilute???
Quote:
Originally Posted by nev90 View Post
A dominant pied and a clearflight pied are two different mutations so unless the bird has the two mutations combined the two terms should not be used together. Both mutations have a dominant breeding pattern
I think i'm getting it nev yay!!!

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