Breeding a Brother & a Sister [Archive] - Talk Budgies Forums

: Breeding a Brother & a Sister


Shu
09-12-2011, 06:03 AM
I Have a a Brother and a sister Budgies from the same cluth,, i noticed they where mating and playing with each other,, they are a very nice couple,, they love eachother,, but i'm afraid that they may produce some bad babies.. any advice,, and if i paired them 2gether and they laid eggs,, what problems may happen?!,, thay are very very compatible,, or do u think i should seperate them and get each one another couple?!

BudgieKiss
09-12-2011, 06:12 AM
Separate them. They should not breed. I don't know much about breeding, but I have heard that the offspring will have a shorter lifespan and they can possibly have different genetic disorders. Budgies do not know better, they'd even breed with their aunt! I recommend finding them a mate or separating them until they are out of condition.

J

AlyseBos
09-12-2011, 06:53 AM
I wouldn't breed them! For some reason (I'm no geneticist) breeding from two animals that have the same lineage is an awful idea. Genetic defects will occur. They are just too much alike. Separate them.

Animals do this. In fact, I have had a cat who's own father got her pregnant!!! Eeeewww!

CaptainHowdy
09-12-2011, 07:25 AM
Do not breed this pair they are too closely related, you are highly likely to get deformed chicks from this pairing. Not worth the heartache.

Shu
09-12-2011, 08:31 AM
Ok,, I Won't Breed Them,, But Can i Breed them into another clutch?!

CaptainHowdy
09-12-2011, 08:44 AM
Ok,, I Won't Breed Them,, But Can i Breed them into another clutch?!

From the same parents? Then no as they will still be brothers and sisters.

If however you mean breed them with birds from another clutch from different parents then yes as they will not be related.

Shu
09-12-2011, 09:07 AM
No,, I Was Meaning From The Same Parent, But i read in another thread that since they r not from the same clutch it is okay,, isn't it?!

ParrotletsRock
09-12-2011, 09:21 AM
Any birds from the same parents will still be brother and sister... even if they only have one parent the same they will still be to closely related to breed together... to breed you need a hen and a male that are totally unrelated.

jim robertson
09-12-2011, 09:29 AM
I had the same problem with having a brother and sister wanting to breed.I wouldn't let them for ages I tried everything to get them to breed with other birds I have

That was until the breeder that is sort of mentoring me who has bred budgies for over thirty years told me that taking one clutch and only one clutch from them should be ok.
He said that the deformities and things start when you start trying to breed the same line over and over

I am at the moments letting mine breed for one clutch they have 2 egss at the minute i will let you know how I get on

Dries
09-12-2011, 09:49 AM
Because I'm mostly colony breeding it happened to me before. The pair laid 8 eggs; 7 hatch and there was no problem what so ever,BUT I will not encourage you to do this - the chance that something can go wrong is just too high.

CaptainHowdy
09-12-2011, 10:43 AM
No,, I Was Meaning From The Same Parent, But i read in another thread that since they r not from the same clutch it is okay,, isn't it?!

No they will still be related, think of it as humans for a moment, if you are from 'clutch 1' of your parents and they decide to then go for 'clutch 2', that child would still be your brother/ sister therefore too closely related.

Any birds from the same parents of the current birds will be brothers and sisters and too closely related to breed with.

If however you get unrelated birds and breed those you can then breed their chicks to your current birds, or just get unrelated birds to make up 2 unrelated pairs.

Ellie-Ann
09-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Whether you decide to let the budgies breed or not, please consider the bond that they have. So often people re-arrange birds like they are toys, but they form very strong emotional bonds too. I agree with the people who say that letting them have one clutch may be alright - after that you could just avoid putting in a nest box. But if the two budgies are bonded, please do not separate them.

Shu
09-12-2011, 11:32 AM
:(Whether you decide to let the budgies breed or not, please consider the bond that they have. So often people re-arrange birds like they are toys, but they form very strong emotional bonds too. I agree with the people who say that letting them have one clutch may be alright - after that you could just avoid putting in a nest box. But if the two budgies are bonded, please do not separate them.

I Dont' Mean To Make Them Sad,, I'm Just Afraid To Get Baby Budgies With Deforms To This World And Make Them Suffer :(

CaptainHowdy
09-12-2011, 11:49 AM
:(

I Dont' Mean To Make Them Sad,, I'm Just Afraid To Get Baby Budgies With Deforms To This World And Make Them Suffer :(

Do not provide them with anything resembling a nest box, re-arrange the cage every week and limit theirday time hours to 8 or less and they should not produce any eggs. If any eggs are laid you can replace them with dummy eggs until she gets bored of them.

carlat187
09-22-2011, 06:14 AM
Whilst we are on the subject of breeding related budgies. What if i breed a male and female but both had different mothers but same fathers???

BudgieKiss
09-22-2011, 08:26 AM
Whilst we are on the subject of breeding related budgies. What if i breed a male and female but both had different mothers but same fathers???

Do not breed them, they are still related. ;)

Psyrexa
09-22-2011, 08:35 AM
Whilst we are on the subject of breeding related budgies. What if i breed a male and female but both had different mothers but same fathers???

I would think it would depend on the genetics and what you wanted.. If there's no real reason to pair them than I don't think you should.

FaeryBee
09-22-2011, 08:43 AM
In-breeding is always a bad idea. Brothers and Sisters are too closely related to have offspring.

I would advise you to allow the budgies to live together and be happy but do NOT give them an opportunity to nest.

carlat187
09-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Ok that was cool i was just wondering seeming they would have different mothers.

RIPbudgies
09-23-2011, 08:31 AM
There is no reason what so ever that a brother and sister cannot be bred together. It will not produce a genetic disorder unless the birds carry genes for such a problem. Two completely unrealted individuals can produce problem birds if they carry the genes to do so.

ParrotletsRock
09-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Inbreeding reduces the gene pool that is used to create the chicks... limited genetic material ups the chance that a genetic defect will be passed on ... unrelated parents also have a chance of carrying genetic defects that can be passed on but there is a far less chance of both parents carrying the same defect and less chance of it being magnified and passed on... I highly advise against inbreeding.. the chances that a bird does not have some sort of genetic flaw is slim as most of them have some hidden flaws that are not noticeable , but if magnified by inbreeding can be a big problem. If you do not think inbreeding has an impact , just look at purebred dogs... they have been inbred and line bred to produce the different breeds and many breeds are plagued with defects such as hip displaysia, blindness, respiratory problems, cancers just to name a few.

nev90
09-23-2011, 10:38 PM
The Pharoahs of ancient Egypt were all inbred. Brother & sister marriages were common. Some of the health problems they suffered were horrific. Birds and animals are no different.

All genes are in pairs and a random one of each pair is inherited from each parent. Theoretically it would be possible for siblings to have no genes the same - if one inherited the first of each pair of genes from each parent and the other inherited the second. This of course is highly unlikely to happen. Identical twins will have inherited the same one from the gene pairs from each of their parents.

Many animal and bird breeders do breed closely related individuals and some are lucky enough to not have too many problems. In other cases the young can and do have numerous health problems

As inbreeding is a risky practice it should only be considered if there is a really sound reason, not just because we have a couple of siblings that like each other. Personally I would never consider breeding birds as closely related as full siblings because I have seen some of the problems that can happen

Shahzadi
09-23-2011, 10:49 PM
Great advice given :) Good luck!

anatess
09-27-2011, 12:04 AM
Isn't that how we started English budgies? Through line-breeding, etc. to magnify the show-trait?

They do line-breeding in the snake world - there's just not that many snakes to go around and wild-caught snakes are frowned upon. But, the breeders do it for a very limited number of clutches - usually just to test out a "super" form of a dominant color mutation.

And then you got the white doberman. The Doberman Pinschers Club of America discouraged the breeding of white doberman because the way to get the white doberman was to line-breed the original white dobie - which, of course, magnified the health issues that came with the lack of pigmentation, even with the non-white offspring.

So yeah, in-breeding may produce perfectly healthy babies, but, I believe if you don't plan to keep the babies, then it's better to avoid it to prevent magnifying certain genetic defects into the budgie pool.

Erika
09-27-2011, 01:42 AM
I think it sounds to me like an ethical issue here...
Theoretically, you COULD breed the two together.

But will you still do so, even with the full knowledge that their offspring risk suffering debilitating defects due to the fact that they are inbred?
And this is a small risk... i know it is not guaranteed, but it is a risk nonetheless.