Charlie has started biting :(

[C.Syfert]

She has all of a sudden started biting me when I try to get her to step up. She was coming right to me, letting me take her out of her cage, play with her etc... well she started running from me in the cage when I would put my hand in, which was out of the ordinary for her (we have only had her about 2 weeks now)... but I figured I should be persistent and show her that she needed to let me handle her... well last night she actually bit me :( not hard, didn't hurt, just upsets me that she would actually try to do that.......

Now after reading up a bit, I see I shouldn't force her and I should let her be if that's what she wants. I think we just all worry that they will continue to withdraw and without our contact will become less and less tame.. I know that was my worry.

So I will give her what she wishes now, and let her be. She was coming out of her cage until I got her the new bigger one, now she doesn't want to come out. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing... b4 she almost acted pent up, and wanted out, would fly right out when I opened the door, and now she acts like she is perfectly fine in her cage (good!) and has no interest in coming out :(

I just want her to be a family bird and interact with us, I don't want her to live in her cage all of the time. Can someone tell me that they had this experience and it did get better? Does she need a friend? What should I do?

[Jobops]

Sometimes a new budgie seems tame at first when they are actually just scared stiff. Sounds like she is becoming slightly less scared and is now trying to assert herself. She is letting you know that she needs time and patience. Just spend a lot of time talking, singing to her, etc. You can very gently lay your hand on the side of her cage for several minutes, slowly offer her millet in her cage, etc. There is a lot of great advice in the training/bonding section.
Best of luck!

[Kerrie73]

Hello. I'm new on here & posted almost the same thing yesterday & had a really good reply with a link. I don't know how to attach the thread but if you look at the postings from yesterday hopefully you will see mine.

I know how you feel, it is upsetting because you thought that Charlie was really starting to bond with you & it feels like all your hard work has gone to waste. I went home today at lunch time & instead of my usual trying to get Eddie up onto my finger, I just fed him his treat from my fingers, he took it lovely & was gentle, then I left him to play. He kept looking at me so i gave him a bit more then left him. At no point did I try & get him to perch on my finger. He seemed quite happy with that. Hopefully in time he will see that I don't want much from him.

Anyway, hopefully you will find my post & have a read of the link.

Good luck.

[Robin's Nest]

That's what TalkBudgies is about - one member helping another - and see Kerrie is going through the same thing! We've all been down that road, and experienced the same joys and frustrations, but you have stumbled onto a huge key to the puzzle, C.Syfer, in giving the bird time and space! Congratulations! It is all about expectations. Sometimes we have reasonable expectations of what it will be like to live with a bird, other times, not so much. But there is always room to build trust and improve the relationship, all at a pace the bird can accept. :) Below I've pasted the response from Kerrie's thread which can be found here:
http://www.talkbudgies.com/showpost.php?p=764677&postcount=2 (http://www.talkbudgies.com/showpost.php?p=764677&postcount=2%29:)
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Unfortunately, the typical advice for how to deal with a biting bird is to pretend it doesn't hurt, to leave your finger in place, and hope that the bird "learns" that the biting gains it nothing. This doesn't work, as you have seen. ;) And we for sure know it doesn't work, since no one would ever try this with a macaw or a cobra. ;) If this was such wonderful advice, it should work for all animals. But people will only suggest it with an animal they think they can overpower or that will not hurt them.

Yet, this advice is still pervasive. If it worked, people would stop having problems with their birds biting. :) Instead, because the bird's body language is ignored, it has to become more and more aggressive in order to make a point that it does not desire interaction.

What typically happens is exactly what you have described - at first, the bird seems to be making great progress. It does everything that is asked, and seems rather placid. But then at some point, several weeks to a couple of months later, it starts rebelling. And it will continue to bite harder, and harder, including drawing blood if necessary, to make a point. Another typical piece of advice is to leave your hand in the cage for periods of time, and gradually move it toward the bird. This way, it "sees nothing bad is happening." But, think about it. If you were in the room with a scary gorilla, and all it did was sit there and stare at you, slowly moving closer... and you couldn't get away... would you stop being scared because it hadn't harmed you yet? The first time it got near you, you might be so scared that you froze in place. You might even be tempted to cooperate. But at some point, you'd start visibly freaking out and fighting. This is what happens to any animal presented with a fearful, aversive situation. But if the gorilla dropped some food and then backed off, wouldn't we feel better about the situation?! But not if he kept inching closer, and then eventually tried to make contact. We would freak out.

Example: At first, I'm nice to telemarketers. I try to get them to understand I'm not interested. But they don't get it. Finally, I have to be almost rude and hang up. From that point forward, if I even think it might be a telemarketer, because I've had such bad experiences, I just avoid the call, or don't even listen to the pitch. I just say - no thanks - and hang up. This is what your bird is doing. It is going to lunge and bite the minute it sees you coming. This means you will begin having trouble even servicing the cage.

I would suggest two things: First, read the linked article below I have written about biting. It will give you practical advice and skills. Second, go to the Training and Bonding forum and read up on millet training. Millet is a fabulous way of creating a common language. Be patient, because your bird may think you're interested in forcing it to step up at first. Help it understand you just want to provide a reward at first, and ask for nothing in exchange. Time to build some trust and communication! :) Good luck. !!

Article:
She Bites Me, She Bites Me Not (http://cagefreeparrot.blogspot.com/2009/06/she-bites-me-she-bites-me-not.html)

[C.Syfert]

Yes! the "she bites me, she bites me not" article was the one I stumbled across and realized that what I thought was all wrong :D I will give her space, gladly if that is what will help. Please tell me she will come around though??

Also, what treats?? I would love to be able to offer her something like that to regain her trust.

[Robin's Nest]

Yes! the "she bites me, she bites me not" article was the one I stumbled across and realized that what I thought was all wrong :D I will give her space, gladly if that is what will help. Please tell me she will come around though??

Also, what treats?? I would love to be able to offer her something like that to regain her trust.

She will come around again. Millet is your best friend. ;) Let her come to learn that interacting with you gains her an irresistible reward. Time and patience will reveal how much she is interested in interacting. But we do know this - we tend to want to hang out with friends who don't bug us about hanging out all the time, always making demands, wanting more and more of our time, never satisfied... phone conversations where you can't get the other person to hang up... these types of things make us want to avoid someone. Short sessions where she is rewarded begin to build you trust. How long it takes, and how far she comes, will be up to her and your ability to take it at her pace and to use the millet as a form of 'communication'. :)

[C.Syfert]

Thank you so much for the advice.

I keep millet in her cage all of the time, she LOVES it... so should I remove it and only offer it at times from me so I can try to bribe her? :D

[Jobops]

Thank you so much for the advice.

I keep millet in her cage all of the time, she LOVES it... so should I remove it and only offer it at times from me so I can try to bribe her? :D

Yes, millet is like candy and shouldn't be available 24/7. It is a great treat and if she associates it only with your presence even better!

[Robin's Nest]

Yes, millet is like candy and shouldn't be available 24/7. It is a great treat and if she associates it only with your presence even better!
Joelle has given you great advice! :)

[Lisa2701]

Lots of great advice here already so I'm not going to add to it. just wanted you to know that I had a similar thing, funny enough in the second week of having Anakin home, he went from "supposedly tame" in the first week to biting really hard in the second week. As already said, time, patience and millet are the best approach. He quickly got past that stage and we learned to understand each other and he is now lovely and tame.

Good Luck, you'll get there!!! xx

[C.Syfert]

Update on Charlie! I think she is definitely a she ;) She finally, on her own flew out of her open cage, which has been open all day. She flew around the living room a bit and my daughter called her to her, and she ran right over to her and jumped on her arm and climbed up to her shoulder! I think she is moody and doesn't want to be messed with when she doesn't feel like it ;) she is now on her swing on her play station on the top of her cage, I went over and offered her millet, and she just stood there, but didn't run from me like she has been, so I just sat the millet down beside her and left her be. :)

[Robin's Nest]

Update on Charlie! I think she is definitely a she ;) She finally, on her own flew out of her open cage, which has been open all day. She flew around the living room a bit and my daughter called her to her, and she ran right over to her and jumped on her arm and climbed up to her shoulder! I think she is moody and doesn't want to be messed with when she doesn't feel like it ;) she is now on her swing on her play station on the top of her cage, I went over and offered her millet, and she just stood there, but didn't run from me like she has been, so I just sat the millet down beside her and left her be. :)

Excellent work and observations! I believe you two are going to make great progress over time!

If she is not interested in the millet and interacting with you - that's no problem! But when you walk away, take it with you. ;) You can try again later. She gets to choose whether or not to interact with you for the reward of millet. If she doesn't want to interact, that's fine, but the millet leaves with you. ;) If the two of you were at the very early stage of getting to know each other, and she were still very fearful, then I would say approach, drop a small piece of millet in her dish, and walk away. But I believe you two already have a bit of an understanding going. :)

[Kerrie73]

I'm pleased you're seeing positives. I am too. Eddie is taking tiny seeds from between my fingers so gently & looking at me & waiting for more, then flying onto my hand without any encouragement from me. And like you said, if he's not interested then I just leave him be. Definately a step in the right direction & this is only day two! :)

This may sound silly but I actually feel closer to him with him taking seed from between my fingers than I did when I was just getting him to step up & have him sit on my finger.

I hope your progress continues & we must both be patient. :D