I'm Not So Good With Color

[Baby5566]

I do not breed for color but have a question that hopefully you all can help me with.

I was thinking of pairing off Moody and Mist when they're both older, they seem fond of eachother already, but neither are 1 year old yet so we're waiting.

Moody is white and purplish-blue, he comes from an albino mother *Liberty* and a dark blue father *Loot*. So he has a white head, white wings and both a white and purplish-blue front.

Mist comes from 2 albino parents. These albino's continue to produce pastels, purples and blues and even green pastel types. We have no idea what the parent's are, only that they are capable of producing every color. Mist looks exactly like Moody, only that she has a sky blue and white front and not purplish-blue.

If we pair these 2 off, what's the chance we will get an all white or albino baby?

[Bojinx]

I'll take a crack at this, and hopefully some of the more experienced breeders can confirm or tell me to be quiet :o

Since neither is visibly 'ino', only you're male is holding a recessive gene. The female is holding no 'ino' gene. None of your male babies will be albino, but statistically half will be like Moody and hold the needed gene. Half of your females have the chance to be albino.

At this point it's like rolling the dice. The chance for albinism is there for your females. It's just the matter of how many female offspring are produced. The numbers say one in four of your chicks will be albino, but your mileage will vary.

[Kerry C]

Liz

I hope you don't mind if I hijack your post a bit for a bit of a budgie color lesson.

Budgies come in 2 base colors - Green and Blue, from there everything else is derived.

From light to dark:

Green: lutino, lace-wing, fallow (light green, dark green, grey green), yellow -also known as a dilute the very soft pastel colors (light green, grey green), light green, dark green, grey green, olive.

All green birds have yellow heads.

Blue: albino, lace-wing, fallow (sky, cobalt, violet, grey), white - also known as a dilute these are the very soft pastel colors (sky, cobalt, grey, violet), sky, cobalt, grey, violet, mauve, slate.

All normal blue birds have white heads.

There is no such color as purple in budgies, violet is the correct color name. Violet can come in a single factor or a double factor - making it a much darker violet color. Violet is a color enhancer and can be added to ANY color.

violet to lutino = orange
violet to sky = sky violet - the bird looks cobalt BUT if you take it under a light you will see the violet wash.
violet to grey = mauve
violet to dark green = violet dark green
violet to grey green = violet grey green

From your description I would believe Moody to be a pied sky violet. (I would need to see a pic to tell if he was a recessive or dominant pied.) His father was either a sky violet or a violet. You can NEVER get a violet from a cobalt parent. (More sky violets get passed off as cobalts. I did this a LOT until I learned the secret of how to tell the difference as described above.)

If Mist looks like Moody then she too would be a pied sky. Both Mist’s parents are split for white. Mist most likely is as well, but only breeding her to a white or a bird split for white can you tell.

Sounds like you are going to produce a lot of blue chicks - sky and sky violet.

You will not get any albinos UNLESS the cock is split for albino. This is a sex linked mutation - the mutation is on the female gean. A female can never be split for a sex linked mutaiton. If she has it she must show it visually.

Hope this helps.

Kerry

[Bojinx]

I agree with most of what Kerry stated, except this... True, 'ino' is a sex linked mutation, but it is linked to the male gene, not the female gene. Male birds have chromosomes XX (truly WW), and females have YX (truly ZW). We normally think of chromosomes in the way mammals (i.e. humans) have them. In mammals, females are XX and males are XY. These are opposites in ornithology/herpetology.

Since the gene is linked to the X(W), Moody should be split to ino. IF mom was albino she passed on this trait.

Since Mist is not albino, her father could not be albino. Albino fathers will always produce albino daughters. Both of an albino father's X chromosomes will contain the 'ino' gene. Since the mother must pass the Y gene to make a daughter, she get's her only X from dad... who makes her an albino. This means Mist's father must be some other white mutation.

[Kerry C]

True, 'ino' is a sex linked mutation, but it is linked to the male gene, not the female gene. Male birds have chromosomes XX (truly WW), and females have YX (truly ZW).


WHOOPS ok so ""I"" didn't retain the lessons learned in my bird genetic books and I slipped back into quoting the human chromosomes. Thanks for helping me get back on track! That is one really good way to get messed up.

OK so I will disagree with only one part of what you said. Since Mist is not albino, her father could not be albino.

Males have XX and Hens have XY. When a color is sex linked as for inos it is written on the X chromosome and since a hen only has 1 X she HAS to show the mutation.

Now males have XX and for a male to show that he is the ino mutation it must be on BOTH XX chromosomes. If it is on only 1 X the bird will show another color BUT be split for ino.

Mist's father can still be split for albino - he only passed Mist the X chromosome that did not have the albino mutation attached.

[Bojinx]

I wasn't trying to come off as rude, I just wanted to make sure I understood things. I apologize if i was taken out of context.


Mist's father can still be split for albino - he only passed Mist the X chromosome that did not have the albino mutation attached.
I'll definitely agree with that.

[redgirl]

Gosh you two are really good at this xxxx :)

[Kerry C]

Hey Bojinx I never though you were being rude. I am happy you put me back on the correct track. Can not belive what I forgot. :o Genetics can be tricky on the best days, though things REALLY get messed up when you are "quoting from the wrong track." :)

[BUUZBEE]

can u two take a look at the question posted on beas wing pattern thread?

[Kerry C]

can u two take a look at the question posted on beas wing pattern thread?

OK so you are going to have to "lead the blind here."

This one with her black and white photos?

http://www.talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=5304

[BUUZBEE]

OK so you are going to have to "lead the blind here."

This one with her black and white photos?

http://www.talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=5304

lol sorry

http://talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?p=68232#post68232

[Baby5566]

Thanks everyone!

Mist's parents are definitely both albino, red eyes and everything. They produce every color, their clutches look like rainbows because they always have a variety.

I believe Loot is a dark violet then, if cobalts will not produce violets. Liberty is definitely an albino.