is it scaly face

[sesil]

i got my birds recently from a pet shop,i ve never had budgies before but they looked a bit sad at the bottom of the cage so i chose them.But soon after i discovered that one of them has a scaly nose and feet.I bought some scaly lotion from the shop and used it but it doesnt look like it helped.I also realised that Blancos bottom part of the mouth was broken.i think his feet are scaly too not all over but they are because when he tries to walk on the carpet his feet get stuck on it.i thought his nails were long so i trimmed them abit but still no good.Can it be scaly nose and feet and what should i do shall i continue to use the lotion or shall i buy smthg else.

[budgerigar]

Best option is to get some ivermectin spot on 0.1%.
Second best would be using olive oil or Vaseline on the areas affected, it blocks the mite burrows and suffocates them.

I have no faith in pet shop products what so ever. Especially aristo-pet and avian-science.

[bugster23]

stop using the lotion..

never use products from a pet store or anything at all that from anywhere to treat any kind of sickness on your animals unless you are told so by a specilized vet..

using products or "medicines" from sources other than a vet could lead to your pet either getting worse.. or even dying.. so stop using the lotion..

the mites you are describing sounds rather advance.. if one of your birds beaks seems broken it could very well be because the mites have made his beak weak and have eaten the rest away..

you need to get your budgies to an avian vet for proper medication... and get your hands on a medicine called Ivermectin (i believe that is what its called).. its the best bet you have right now to clear uo the mites..

to slow it down till you get to a vet... i would suggest rubbing alittle vaseline atleast twice a day on their feet and on their ceres and beaks... dont get any on the nostrils..

and i would also suggest you put the two in diffirent cages to aing in healing.. and offer soft foods such as moisted pellets to the budgie with the broken beak..

your birds sound like they are not very healthy right now.. an avian vet visit is very important to make sure that other than the mites there are no other illneses which are unlikely since you say they were at the bottom of the cage..

also the one with the borken beak will need medical attention fast to help close it up..

good luck..

ps.. could you post a picture of your birds feet and beak and over all body?... just so we can get a clear picture of what might really be going on..

[absolutangel]

If it is scaly face you'd be much better off with a quick trip to the vet. Ivermectin is what they frequently use to treat it, mine have been given it for something else and it wasn't expensive, and I understand for scaly face it's a simple and effective treatment. I wouldn't waste money on pet store rememdies for things like this.

Here's a link with some pics of birds with scaly face, some are grim, might help you confirm that's what yours have.

http://www.birds-online.de/gesundheit/gesparasiten/grabmilben_en.htm

[bugster23]

your male has scaly face and it is somewhat advanced.. your female is in breeding condition and has scaly face aswell..

if you cannot get your hands on ivermectin.. use a Qtip and rub vaseline on there beaks and ceres (avoiding the nostrils) twice daily... it will take longer.. but it will either slow down the growth of the mite colony till you can get the right medicine or get rid of the mites completely just over a longer period of time..

we have already given you some good info on your other thread..

please toss out the lotion and never use it again..

[absolutangel]

Looks like it to me. I wouldn't continue with the shop bought lotion, take the pair of them to the vets, they will probably prescribe ivermectin which is easy and effective (and from my experience an inexpensive drug) The vet will be able to do a general check and make sure there are no other problems at the same time.

You might want to let the pet shop know they are selling birds with a parasitic disease and tell them to get their birds treated if they have any others with it.

[sesil]

Thanx everyone for the advice.Im sort of panicking now.i always loved budgies but ever since i bought them i was so scared to hold them cos they bite hard.I guess they are not tamed.I always waited for my brother in low to come and hold them for me so i can put some lotion or even just to try and hold them a bit.
by the way the lotion is called Johnsons veterinary scaly lotion cutaneous solution.I got it from from a pet shop where they sell all the food and things. They are still very difficult to handle especially Blanco even to this day i dont know the sex of it.I bought it as a male but later i was told it is female.May be you cant really tell from his beack cos it is really scaly.
Can i get that medicine you talk about over the internet or it has to be only via a vet.

[Budgiekin]

Awww, poor little guy. Definitely mites.

The ivermectin is best purchased through an avian vet if that is at all possible as it can be toxic to a budgie if administered in too high a dose. The dose is carefully calculated based on your budgie's body weight. I have had two budgies who have had mites and the ivermectin cleared it up very nicely.

The good news is that the mites in and of themselves are not fatal, however, if left untreated, it can lead to permanent beak deformities, which if severe enough, can prevent a budgie from being able to eat.

You also mentioned that you thought the bottom part of the beak on one of them is broken? Does it seem to impede the ability to eat at all? If it is minor, a budgie can do just fine for its lifetime. ;)

I hope you can get your little sweeties to an avian vet. And please let us know how they are doing. :)

[sesil]

Thanx everyone for the advice.Im sort of panicking now.i always loved budgies but ever since i bought them i was so scared to hold them cos they bite hard.I guess they are not tamed.I always waited for my brother in low to come and hold them for me so i can put some lotion or even just to try and hold them a bit.
by the way the lotion is called Johnsons veterinary scaly lotion cutaneous solution.I got it from from a pet shop where they sell all the food and things. They are still very difficult to handle especially Blanco even to this day i dont know the sex of it.I bought it as a male but later i was told it is female.May be you cant really tell from his beack cos it is really scaly.
Can i get that medicine you talk about over the internet or it has to be only via a vet

[sesil]

Im very new at this and everything i need to do i check on the internet but at the same time i dont want to sound stupid.I bought Blanco for a guy then i was told its a girl.What do you think.Have you seen that lotion i have been using Johnsons veterinary scaly lotion cutaneous solution.
The beak is broken at the bottom it doesnt look like its affecting its eating but he is very hard to handle as it bites very hard and im finding it difficult to tame them.Also if anyone has advice on taming them cos when i bought them they were not babies they always used to bite me.

[Dannii]

Oh, poor little Sweetie that looks like a nasty case of scaly face.

I would take him (at least I think its a him) to an AVIAN vet as soon as possible, they will be able to treat your bird properly. I would never recommend self prescribing your bird via the internet or pet stores. Infact, most petstores sell products that could potentially be lethal to your birds. SO definitely get the medicine through your vet, that way you’ll know the exact dosage to administrate :) I’d also stop using that lotion...
Until you can get an appointment with the vet I’d take a cotton bud with either some Vaseline or even a spot of olive oil and spread it over the beak (but not the nostrils!) this will help suffocate and eradicate the mites!

Also I see it says you have 3 budgies, I’d separate them if you’ve not already done so and scrub the cages down daily. If you have any natural perches they should be disinfected (Which is hard because wood is a nightmare to disinfect)

Good luck and do let us know how the wee guy gets on.

[11bryces]

Both Of My Budgies Had Scaly Face ! I Treated Them With Vaseline And It Is Healed And Gone Now ! Just Put Some Vaseline Using Cotton Or Somthing On The Area ... Be Carefulll The Bird Don't Eat Any Because It Is Toxic For Them ... Put The Vaseline For 5 Days Straight.. Then Take A Break For Few Days And Repeat The Treatment. The Crust Around My Budgies Cerre,beak And Feet Fell Off 2 Days After I Started The Treatment!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!

[SpickyDavies]

yes your birds have scaly face

i bought a bottle from here...

http://www.medicines4yourpet.com/ivermectin-drops-01-10ml-1809-p.asp


alternativly get down to your local petshop
and grap
one spot ones for birds which is a diluted version

[SpickyDavies]

http://www.medicines4yourpet.com/ivermectin-drops-01-10ml-1809-p.asp

[Dannii]

Oops just noticed that you have another thread!

The others have given you great advice, so just be sure to take your time and read through the replies! :)

[sesil]

How many times a day shall i put vaseline and what do i do with the beak around the nostrils

[SpickyDavies]

don't apply vaseline at this stage
spend money and get the job done

[Heatherz2boyz]

I just went through this with one of my visiting budgies. And the ivermectin works great. you can also put a very tiny tiny amount on your clean finger and rub it on the cere. Once I noticed it I treated all the birds with the ivermectin. Just one little drop behind the head where they cant reach.

[critter mom]

Both Of My Budgies Had Scaly Face ! I Treated Them With Vaseline And It Is Healed And Gone Now ! Just Put Some Vaseline Using Cotton Or Somthing On The Area ... Be Carefulll The Bird Don't Eat Any Because It Is Toxic For Them ... Put The Vaseline For 5 Days Straight.. Then Take A Break For Few Days And Repeat The Treatment. The Crust Around My Budgies Cerre,beak And Feet Fell Off 2 Days After I Started The Treatment!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!

I also had success with vasoline.

[Budgiekin]

This case of mites is much too severe to rely on vaseline to be a successful treatment.

Ivermectin treats the mites systemically (i.e. in the blood via the circulatory system) so there are no traces of mites left behind anywhere. Vaseline may be okay for minor cases, however this one should be treated more aggressively with the ivermectin.

[Robin's Nest]

Hi, Sesil, and welcome to Talk Budgies. You obviously love your new budgies very much. :) Thank you for rescuing them. :)

I agree with Budgiekin; you are looking at a case of scaly mites much too severe for vaseline or other type treatments. Both of your birds will need to be treated, and you will want to thoroughly clean their areas, cages, perches, toys, etc. with hot, soapy water. There are two major advantages of the ivermectin: 1) it is usually a one-time single treatment, and 2) it is effective. For advanced cases of mites, there is no guarantee the vaseline will work - PLUS, you would be handling your birds every day. At this point in your relationship and their lack of tameness, that is really going to be stressful on them and you. If you can get them to the vet, the single dose in proper amount can be administered to the back of their head, and other than cleaning their areas, you'll be good to go.

[11bryces]

This case of mites is much too severe to rely on vaseline to be a successful treatment.

Ivermectin treats the mites systemically (i.e. in the blood via the circulatory system) so there are no traces of mites left behind anywhere. Vaseline may be okay for minor cases, however this one should be treated more aggressively with the ivermectin.


i actually haven't seen the pics of the bird... that is why i talked about the vaseline ... how can i see the pictures ??? so i can see how bad it looked.

[Robin's Nest]

i actually haven't seen the pics of the bird... that is why i talked about the vaseline ... how can i see the pictures ??? so i can see how bad it looked.

The picture is in post #7 of this thread:

http://talkbudgies.com/showpost.php?p=449836&postcount=7

[AngelWings]

I agree with the others... this is far too advanced for vaseline to work... your best shot is with ivermectin.. Good luck and please keep us updated! :)

[11bryces]

This case of mites is much too severe to rely on vaseline to be a successful treatment.

Ivermectin treats the mites systemically (i.e. in the blood via the circulatory system) so there are no traces of mites left behind anywhere. Vaseline may be okay for minor cases, however this one should be treated more aggressively with the ivermectin.


of course vaseline can be use in this case ! one of my budgie was worse than that and healed perfectly well ! don't worry !!! vaseline is great because it will make all the mites suffocate and in couple of days the crust will come off for sure ... put the vaseline one or 2 times a day ( i do it once) and it will work well but remember ! DON'T PUT VASELINE ON THE NOSE AND DON'T LET YOUR BUDGIE IT IT ! IT IS VERY TOXIC !

[Robin's Nest]

If it were to work, and that is a toss up in my opinion, there are two new budgies involved and it would be extremely stressful to them being new in the home and getting held down every day, day after day, for the application - not to mention stressful to the caregiver - times 2 birds. This is something else to consider in the mix. And if the vaseline were not to work, then it is back to square 1 and using medication.

[Tammy.w.]

i agree with the others it is far to advanced for vasaline. i hope all goes well.

[sesil]

Thank you all i just bought the med from this website
http://www.animalmedicationdirect.co.uk/ivermectin-spot-on-drops-01-pharmaq-brand-10ml-c-4-p-2-pr-5786.html hopefully it will come asap.They say two to four day i put some vaseline on all three just incase ,so that it doesnt get any worse.
Have you looked at the picture do you think Blanco is a boy or a girl and can you help with taming cos they bite alot.
What is a good vegetable i can give as a treat apart from lettuce.Can they eat celery sticks

[sesil]

Many thanx to everyone and especially Bugster23 for replying to my PM.
I want to apologise for sending a PM rather than open question but iam still trying to get used to the website and the ways of asking questions or having conversations.So please accept my apology and i dont get upset with you guys being straight forward with me in fact i prefer it that way.

[sesil]

Buy the way the PM was about my Blanco and Sunny and how can you tell Blanco is a male and sunny is in Breading condition since i dont have a clue about those things but would like to learn everything there is to know to be a good owner.Originally i bought Blanco from the pet shop being told its a male,but later on my brother in law thought its a female so i got confused because it is not very clear from the scaly nose.

[bugster23]

Thank you all i just bought the med from this website
http://www.animalmedicationdirect.co.uk/ivermectin-spot-on-drops-01-pharmaq-brand-10ml-c-4-p-2-pr-5786.html hopefully it will come asap.They say two to four day i put some vaseline on all three just incase ,so that it doesnt get any worse.
Have you looked at the picture do you think Blanco is a boy or a girl and can you help with taming cos they bite alot.
What is a good vegetable i can give as a treat apart from lettuce.Can they eat celery sticks

Many thanx to everyone and especially Bugster23 for replying to my PM.
I want to apologise for sending a PM rather than open question but iam still trying to get used to the website and the ways of asking questions or having conversations.So please accept my apology and i dont get upset with you guys being straight forward with me in fact i prefer it that way.

Good to hear that you have managed to get your hands on some medicine.. 4 days isnt to long your budgies should be able to hold out till then :)

i got this link for you about veggies andd fruits..
http://www.talkbudgies.com/showthread.php?t=5286

you can click the "Forums" link on the upper part of the page to run through all the forums.. we have a bonding and training forum.. diet/health..
pretty much everything you need budgie wise..

about the training.. it will be very hard for you to train them now since they are not feeling very well..

a happy healthy budgie is alot easier to train then a sore and sick one.. so get them better first.. then start your training :)..

also when you apply the vaseline or medicine.. dont go directly and grab them.. use a cloth to cover your hand.. this will help you protect your hand.. and so the budgies wont be continuously afriad of hands grabbing them ;)..

and dont apologize... :) its never wrong to ask a question and everyone has to start somewhere...

good luck.. please update us when you can..

[Budgiekin]

I'm glad you are going to go with the ivermectin, but please be VERY VERY VERY careful with the dosage you give to your budgies. Given in too high a dose, it can be fatal!

[sesil]

The instructions on the site are one drop for body weight 60gr and 2 drops for 100 grams and so on.60 gram aprox weight being budgies and 100 and more cocatails.I put some vaseline on all three of them today on their feet and beak and nose i tryed to be very careful not to get on the nostrils just around because they have mites there too.Hopefully havent done nothing wrong

[Robin's Nest]

Hey, Sesil - regarding the question on the sex of your budgie - it is a little hard to tell with the mites, and will be easier once that is cleared up. If I had to make a guess, I would say girl - but I cannot be positive. :)

[Budgiekin]

The weight they have indicated on the package seems to be a rather high estimate for budgies. It may be more accurate to say that an average budgie would be closer to 30 or 40 grams. The larger English budgies would be closer to 60 grams, but yours are not English.)

(Sorry, it makes me cringe when potent medicines are administered without the consultation of an avian vet.)

[sesil]

Well at the moment i cant really afford to take them to a vet im not just skint but in dept as well.So i just about managed to get the medicine.Ill try with the smallest drop and read carefully the instructions and try and save some money in case it doesnt disappear .I thought it is best to do smthg rather than wait to get paid.

[louara]

I agree-only a vet should treat and prescribe medicine. Good luck and keep us posted.

[SpickyDavies]

don't bother with the vaseline
http://www.animalmedicationdirect.co.uk/image.php?type=P&id=5786apply one drop, direct to the skin
once a week for 3 weeks


it's the same as i have, and really easy to use
if you blow on the feathers on the back of the neck, skin is easyer to get to
make sure its just one drop, it's really hard to get one drop out so you shouldnt overdose :)keep us updated

[sesil]

Thank you for the advice i hope ill get it soon so i can start using it.Im really nervous.But i just want my babies to be ok.

[lorri]

We have something that is stronger but ivermetin dose a perfect job.

Here is a picture that a bird has scaly mite!
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/lorricc/Other%20stuff/Z0RHASCAP2IPVWCA0RYT8GCA4O2YS6CA43L.jpg
and this is the mite that caurses it.
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/lorricc/Other%20stuff/images.jpg