question

[Tammy.w.]

just a random question and im not thinking of it but do people do this or is it cruel to take a baby or egg out the nest box and hand rear it?
im not planning on this i geuss im just curious? hopefully not sounding dumb?:o

[atvchick95]

I hand feed my cockatiels, but not until they're 3 weeks old. I'd take any baby younger if needed (parents hurting them, not feeding them etc.)

[Robin's Nest]

It is a good question! You know the old sayin', Tammy, there's no dumb question! (By the way, I love your siggy!)

Anyway, this is a topic of lots of opinions on both sides, and that's ok... some will take the babies right away and hand rear (although it is sure a lot of work when they are so newly hatched), and the thinking is that they will be tamer and bond with people easier. Some allow the parent to completely feed them all the way through weaning, some pull the babies after a few weeks as atv mentioned, and some will 'co-parent', meaning the parent feeds but a person also does some hand feeding.

One benefit of leaving the chick with the parents at least for a few weeks if not until completely weaned is that the chick's immature immune system is bolstered by antibodies and other factors provided by the parents to the chick through the regurgitated food. These antibodies and other immune strengthening factors cannot be duplicated through hand feeding formula even though the formulas are much, much better than years ago.

There are of course instances when the parents do not properly feed the babies, perhaps due to inexperience or other reasons, or if the chick is in danger (some parent(s) can get mean and try to hurt chicks), then for their own safety they must be pulled and hand fed. Hand feeding at any age is a commitment of time, has its own risks. If the food is too cold the baby can get slow crop or sour crop, if the food is too hot the baby can get a crop burn that can result in surgery and pain, and if bad enough lead to death. The chick must be fed often enough, not too little but not too much quantity either. Care must be taken that the bird does not aspirate (when food gets into the lungs instead of the crop). I hand fed my parrot from about the age of 3 weeks, and while I was successful, I was a nervous wreck. It is a time commitment, at first getting up through the night, and is not the kind of thing that one wants to learn on the fly, but instead get training and plenty of practice in advance. It was nerve racking for me!

So there are a number of differing approaches in this regard, and it is a great question! :)

[Tammy.w.]

thanks for the replys :)
oh and robin ozzy should get all the credit for the siggy. haha
i understand now i just wasn't sure if people only handfed babies if they were rejected by the parents ect.
you both have really answered my question :)

[Kate C]

It may be considered cruel if you don't know what you are doing. Before I started hand raising I studied the subject before hand and also watched as many people as I could actually doing it. I think that anyone who is breeding birds should learn how to use a crop needle. Not just for hand raising but in case you need to medicate a bird or have a bird that is too weak to eat by itself. You can often save a bird with this knowledge.

I take my youngsters at around 2 to 3 weeks (but this is mainly larger parrots). I will take them younger if there is a problem and this would apply to my budgies as well. With the larger birds if you want a tame bird the only real way to get it is to hand raise the babies. It takes about 10 days for a baby birds immune system to kick in, before that they get their immunity from their parents in the crop milk. I prefer to use a spoon to hand raise not just because it is more natural but also because I can give the food a a slightly higher temperature and a slightly thicker mix that can be given through a syringe or crop needle. A thicker mix is more natural for the baby too as if you look at a parent fed baby you will see that they give them a lot of nearly whole seeds when they feed. Just before Christmas I was baby sitting some babies for a friend who needed a very well deserved holiday and the only time it could be taken was at breeding time. Two of the babies were problems (he had already lost 6 babies to these parents), one was a very agressive feeder and had actually cut the sides of his beak (like the corners of your mouth) and had developed bad sores and scabs. I switched him from spoon feeding to crop needle and within a week the sores had healed up. The babies from these parents were just wasting away and dying. I went to the simplest problem first and treated them with Ivermectin as a worm treatment. Both youngsters I looked after for 3 weeks survived, the only 2 out of 8 youngsters that did. Two avian vets had done autopsies on the deceased babies and could find no problem and could only advise getting rid of the parents and getting another pair. But often vets look for the big problem and neglect the simple problem. I told the breeder to treat the parents with Ivomec and see how they went. These were very expensive birds and the 2 that I had fledged really well and caught up to the 2 that were not a problem.

I have had older birds brought to me to hand raise, sometimes because their parents have rejected them or the parents died and the babies were unweaned. This is where you really need to use a crop needle as they will not take food readily from a spoon and can often be a bit agressive as the fear of humans has already started to develop. Sometimes I have had wild birds brought to me that may be flying but are still not able to feed themselves, this is also another case where you have to use a crop needle. These are life and death situations where it is necessary for you to step in.

Another situation is when you have parents who won't sit on their eggs or break them before hatching, or don't feed the babies or kill them. This is where you need an incubator and hatch the eggs yourself. This is often done when you have very expensive birds that you are trying to breed and just won't play ball for you. This is not something that should be done unless you are vey experienced and even then it is frought with problems, and very time consuming.

So there is a number of reasons why you hand raise and it is definitely not cruel when you know what you are doing or it is a life threatening situation. I love hand raising. It still gives me a big thrill even after 15 years of bringing an ugly little baby that is all beak belly and bum through to being the beautiful feathered creature that they are meant to be. It also gives you a very loving and affectionate bird that will give years of love and affection. There is nothing nicer than getting a big cuddle and tongue kiss from a Sulphur Crested Cockatoo that looks at you with total love in their eyes.

[Budgiebreeder11]

I always hand feed my budgies. It ensures that they will be socialized with people.