I'm Getting A.... Python!

[Rainbow]

No one here knows this but I actually rescued a full grown ball python a few weeks ago because his home was really bad, I got him from an auction while I was buying some cages... he was soo extremely tame and I hated to see such a beautiful snake in a bad set up so I took him home... bought him a heat lamp, safe floor shavings and adopted him out about 2 weeks later to this experienced snake owner.

After adopting him out I realized just how much I actually loved that snake and now I'm crazy about ball pythons, I always thought snakes were really bad pets but after taking care of one I realized just how friendly and cute they can be. That ball python I rescued was super tame... call my crazy but in the mourning I would take him out of his tank and snuggle beside him on my bed, he was sooooo CUTE! :D

I got contacted by a ball python breeder and he has a male pastel for sale!

I said YES I want to buy him, I have to wait a few weeks as it just hatched last month and he wants to feed it some more before he sells him but that's good as I still have to buy the tank and supplies still. Here are some actual photos of him below. Ball pythons grow from 3 1/2 to 5 feet long for males. :)

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd78/Rainbowhuggs/IMG_1049.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd78/Rainbowhuggs/IMG_1047.jpg

[ronsig]

Have you told your birds yet?
I love to watch snakes in the wild. I have even been rattled at by a rattlesnake.
But...to be honest, I would never keep one as a pet.
I am looking forward to pictures and stories......:)

Sigrid

[naburu]

I used to have pythons. They make great pets.
Hope you get him/enjoy him.

[lamagdalena]

He is beautiful. I couldn't keep a snake though, or any animal that required live food. Over here where I live there are lots of pythons. People buy them and then they grow too big and they release them in rivers, ponds, lakes ect....

I agree with Ronsig. Tell your fids and Noodin so they can prepare :P

[x_zipped_x]

wow you cant be serious?
i saw some baby snakes in a petshop and yes they were mega cute but it never even crossed my mind to ever keep one as a pet :)
but im glad you enjoy them

[ronsig]

People buy them and then they grow too big and they release them in rivers, ponds, lakes ect....


Yes, that is a problem in Florida too
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/DyeHard/story?id=2072458&page=1

But in Canada that should not be an issue. Any python would not make it through the winter.
Now, I remember a story about an appartment building in Toronto. Somebody's pet snake escaped:eek: and they evacuated the building. They never found the snake...and I wonder if the people moved back in:p

Sigrid

[Goldielover]

I've looked after a red tailed boa constrictor belonging to a friend for months at a time before. He was gorgeous to look at, and grew quite a bit during the time I had him. He ate mice at first, then graduated to rats. These were bought frozen at the pet store, so I usually had "mousicles" or "ratsicles" in my freezer. It felt a little weird feeding these to him when in another room we had a rat and two mice as pets. He was very good natured, but it was always a good idea to leave him be for a day or so after feeding, or if he was going through a shed.

You might want to consider keeping the snake in a completely different room from your birds. Some animals react badly to a snake's stare. Our rat always freaked out if Bobo was anywhere near.

[ronsig]

Some animals react badly to a snake's stare. Our rat always freaked out if Bobo was anywhere near.

I wonder why:p I am sorry, but I find this sooo funny.......:D

Sigrid

[Rainbow]

You might want to consider keeping the snake in a completely different room from your birds. Some animals react badly to a snake's stare. Our rat always freaked out if Bobo was anywhere near.
LOL, awwww!

Well that other ball python I helped out was in the same room as my birds and bunny,

They all just looked at the snake when I let him out they did nothing... well except Noodin he only once started stomping his feet like Thumper because he got a little scared but as the days passed he just ignored the snake so all my pets are O.k with it. :)

Now, I remember a story about an appartment building in Toronto. Somebody's pet snake escaped and they evacuated the building. They never found the snake...and I wonder if the people moved back in
Yes it was a poisonous snake, I remember seeing that on T.v, I sure would not move back in!

[tstmard]

I could never have a snake in my house. They creep me out. My friend had a red tailed boa who was like 5 feet long or so, I think I might of touched her once. But I don't know if I agree with someone with birds having a snake. To bring in a animal that's going to cause any fear at anytime to the animals you have I think is wrong. Especially a preditor like that. I mean would you want your worst enemy to come live in your house with you and you couldn't do anything about it? I believe as pet owners you need to consider the well being of the animals you already have and not just yourself. You can't say that your birds and rabbit will be as comfortable as they are now with a snake living in the same room.

[Rainbow]

I could never have a snake in my house. They creep me out. My friend had a red tailed boa who was like 5 feet long or so, I think I might of touched her once. But I don't know if I agree with someone with birds having a snake. To bring in a animal that's going to cause any fear at anytime to the animals you have I think is wrong. Especially a preditor like that. I mean would you want your worst enemy to come live in your house with you and you couldn't do anything about it? I believe as pet owners you need to consider the well being of the animals you already have and not just yourself. You can't say that your birds and rabbit will be as comfortable as they are now with a snake living in the same room.
So I'm guessing your not a snake fan.

My birds are pets and don't know what a predator really is as they would in the wild, I've had rescue kittens in my room and they had no fear what so ever of them. My snakes tank will have a strong top to keep him from going out so there will be no chance of him getting any of my birds. Keeping a snake in the house could be applied to keeping a cat or dog in the house, they can injure our birds or kill them just like a snake but as careful bird owners we must always watch carefully over our pets. :)

I've heard allot more stories of cats and dogs hurting birds than I ever will snakes.

[lovesbudgies]

I have to agree with Susan on this one. I would not have a snake in my house not with my parakeet. Especially not in the same room as the bunny and birds. yes I do have a cat and a dog in my home. i have my birds cage hanging on a hook on the wall where my caht has no chance of getting at it. My cat is also an indoor cat so she has never been out side in the 9 years i have had her. She doesn't even know how to kill a bug. i do watch her all the time and she mostly ignores my bird. Now a snake is used to eating live animals and snakes are pretty strong and can slither and get out of tanks. My brother had a snake when we were growing up and his snake got out of the tank and the tank had a lid on it. When that happend my brother had to get rid of his sanke, he sold it to someone. Sorry i don't agree with getting a snake when you have animals that can be eaten byt the snake. Animals have insticts and know who their preditors are by nature. i am sure your birds and bunny will be terrified of the snake.

[rachelle83]

I disagree. As long as you are responsible, there's no reason you couldn't have both. You should be careful to wash your hands if you handle the birds or rabbits first, so you do not get mistaken as food though :). And make sure you have a locking lid while it's still small. You will need something much larger in a few years though. However, I do disagree with your choice of snake :) They get huge, and most are given up when they can no longer be handled. I would go for something like a milk snake.

[Masae]

I also disagree. As long as you're responsible, there should be no problem. I once had snakes as well, along with a Cockatiel, and a hamster. They had no fear whatsoever, and my snake had no interest in them at all to begin with. Besides that, the snake lived in a completely different room than my other pets. Just keep the snake well-fed, and he shouldn't have any reason to pursue your Budgies or bunnies.

On a lighter note! That snake is gorgeous. You're very fortunate! I'd love to have a snake again. And he does sound very tame, which is great. :D Congrats on your new pet!

[Rainbow]

Thanks everyone,

I understand you want my birds to be safe but I assure you they will, I check on my pets about 5 times if not more a day and when I'm not home my mom is always going into my room checking on them. Ball pythons are really great beginner snakes and I know ''Python'' sounds like a huge monster but really they are small and want to eat nothing more than their mice and rats as long as you wash your hands and don't let the scent of mice/rats get on your birds. My pythons tank will have a locking top.

i am sure your birds and bunny will be terrified of the snake
If you read the first sentence closely you'll see that I just had a ball python I rescued in my room for about 2 weeks and all of my animals were not scared of it so it's ok. :)

[Will]

I would never keep any mammal eatting snakes as pets because I could never feed them another animal and I'd be afraid it'd eat one of my pets. Plus I just dont like them.

But I'd love an insect eating snake or egg eating snake :)

[BUUZBEE]

congrats on the new snakes... pythons are beautiful ones!

Mr Snake says hello!

[Ciisea]

Congrats Rainbow! :party:

The snake you're getting is gorgeous. Secretly, I'm a snake lover. They fascinate me! But I also could never keep one due to various reasons. ;)

[Goldielover]

You may want to get a proper terrarium with lockable doors rather than just using an aquarium with a screen top. Snakes can and will escape, and if they do, they won't hesitate to eat your other pets. Remember what happened to Rattie's mice when the snake escaped recently.

When I was looking after Bobo, I had his terrarium in the living room, Midge was in my room, and the rat and mice were in my daughter's room. That way he was separated from the others who would normally be his prey, and nobody got too stressed out. Whiskey (rat) saw Bobo a couple of times when she was out, and she was terrified of him. She obviously had an instinctive fear of snakes, as she came from a long line of captive bred rats, and would have had no experience of them whatsoever in the wild.

[Bethany]

aww congrats! they are cute but i would not want to feed it live food:P

[Ciisea]

IMO, live feeding should be avoided at all costs. It's dangerous for the snake and inhumane to the prey since the snake has an unfair advantage in a enclosure.

[Goldielover]

IMO, live feeding should be avoided at all costs. It's dangerous for the snake and inhumane to the prey since the snake has an unfair advantage in a enclosure.

Agreed - get him on to the frozen food if you can. Most will take to it eventually. I admit defrosting them isn't much fun, but its better than watching the snake eat something alive.

[BUUZBEE]

IMO, live feeding should be avoided at all costs. It's dangerous for the snake and inhumane to the prey since the snake has an unfair advantage in a enclosure.

*must not say a word* :rolleyes:

[Ciisea]

*must not say a word* :rolleyes:

I'm a bit confused by this... :dunno:

[BUUZBEE]

My husbands snake is over 20 years old... the snake's never had a problem "hunting". The mice bought for it are always killed quickly and they are bred to be feeder mice. I'm curious to know your experience with feeding snakes to make such a blanket statement.

[Ciisea]

I will admit that I am bias. I'm looking at it from the prey's standpoint since I am a rodent lover. I don't see how an animal can die quickly from suffocation.

However, I was purely basing those 'blanket' statements on my own personal opinion. I'm in no position to argue since I haven't had a snake for 20 years. I still feel that if a snake will take to pre-killed food then I would much rather offer that.

[BUUZBEE]

Its EXTREMELY hard to get a snake to take to eating frozen mice etc.... they hunt using their heat and vibtration sences and you cant duplicate that.

I am a rodent fan too... I've had many mice and rats for pets over the years, but I know this is nature, and snakes kept as pets must eat. Just as birds and reptiles that eat meal worms or crickets... its nature, they are still getting killed. A lot of fresh water turtles kept in tank are fed feeder fish even.

And you'd be surprised at how quickly the mice do die... they strike and constrict very fast and very tight.

[Goldielover]

Its EXTREMELY hard to get a snake to take to eating frozen mice etc.... they hunt using their heat and vibtration sences and you cant duplicate that.




I guess we were lucky that Bobo took to eating "mousicles and ratsicles" while he was still quite small. I'd put one in with him, and within a few minutes he was chowing it down.:)

Actually, while I was researching his care, I did find quite a few sites that warn against live food too. Especially rats, as they can do quite a bit of damage to the snake.:( Not sure what type of snake your husband has, but the sites I found often stated that red tailed boas were one of the easiest snakes to convert to prekilled food. Which is of course what Bobo was.

[BUUZBEE]

Ours is a Gopher snake :) you can see him in my siggy.

Age does play a big part in the conversion though

[keet_tweet4]

Pythons are pretty.

IMHO, If you do get a snake, I wouldn't keep it in the same room as your birds or rabbit.

Yes, they are pet birds, but they have instincts, all of us do. They reconize snakes and their movement as predators. Even if you say they didn't care and "just stared at it", I still wouldn't have it in the same room...but that's just me. I also have a thing about "exotic" pets....I'm not going to go into that ATM.

[Goldielover]

Ours is a Gopher snake :) you can see him in my siggy.

Age does play a big part in the conversion though

I can quite see how age would make a difference. A snake that has been eating live food for years isn't going to want to change.:) Bobo was converted while he was still at the stage of eating fuzzies, so never had a chance to get set in his ways.

Bobo was one of my friend's pets I didn't take over when she left the country. He got an excellent home with a man who had a number of other large snakes, so was well familiar with his needs. He'd grown from a little guy of about 24" to close to four feet in the time she had him.:) He was quite tame, and very laid back.

[Rainbow]

The man is feeding the snake live fuzzies right now but I'm going to try and switch it over, :)

Snakes are beautiful creatures and it's a shame not many people like them, I know it does seem very cruel that sometimes they must eat live and squeeze their prey to death but like BUUZBEE said you would be surprised how fast they die, the snake I rescued would not eat frozen so I did have to feed him live rats but he striked and killed so fast that rat was dead in less than 25 to 35 seconds!

Being a vegetarian I do find it pretty sad having to feed a snake live or even frozen prey but I really love these reptiles and it's only natural, I'm sure many of you eat chicken and beef... the food you eat can go threw allot worse than the snakes food, I won't go into details of how some of your food is killed but it's allot worse than feeding a snake live food. Animals are not being killed in normal ways like they were back then, now large machines are doing most of the job to make your meaty foods. The only thing I HATE about some snake owners is when they start laughing and posting the videos on youtube or feeding their snakes pets, now that's horrible but I'm not like that and never will be. :rant:

[BUUZBEE]

my question is how are the "frozen" mice etc., done... how "humaine" is being frozen compaired to a quick kill? I have no idea how they do it, but its a good question!

[ronsig]

my question is how are the "frozen" mice etc., done... how "humaine" is being frozen compaired to a quick kill? I have no idea how they do it, but its a good question!

I started to google for answers but gave up:( Too many upsetting websites:(
In the summer I visited a bird hospital in Florida. They feed frozen chicks to their injured hawks. I couldn't watch:o
I read that chicks are killed with gas. But I don't know if that's the ones they then use for feeding:S

Sigrid

[Goldielover]

my question is how are the "frozen" mice etc., done... how "humaine" is being frozen compaired to a quick kill? I have no idea how they do it, but its a good question!

I have no idea either. Maybe just a quick chilling? The store I bought them from always had them by the freezer load, and I got the impression they came in bulk from a supplier. I caught a glimpse of the tank of live feeder mice they kept in the back once, and talk about squalid conditions compared to the pet mice they had in the front. :( That's not exactly humane, either, so this one is a tough call.

The rat we used to have was a rescue. My friend walked into the local pet store one day, and there was this brown rat sitting on the store clerk's shoulder. She promptly started asking about it, and making a fuss of it. She found out that the rat hadn't sold as a youngster as she was a very plain brown colour, and had produced two litters which had been sold, and now the store management didn't have a use for her any more, and wanted her fed to one of the store snakes. She was less than a year old. The clerk said he didn't have the heart to do it, as she was the friendliest rat you could imagine, but he couldn't take her home himself because his Mom would freak. Anyways, he ended up giving her the rat, along with an old cracked plastic tank to transport her home in. She brought her home to me, as she wasn't allowed rodents in her building, and I put her in a spare fish tank until I could get a proper cage. She was a great pet, and lived with us for another two and a half years before dying of old age. She was called Whiskey not because of her colour, but because she got caught slurping from my friend's boyfriend's whiskey glass. He was less than impressed.:D I have no idea what the snake got for dinner that night.:)

[Will]

IMO, live feeding should be avoided at all costs. It's dangerous for the snake and inhumane to the prey since the snake has an unfair advantage in a enclosure.

I completly agree.
If the snake wont eat it already dead then it shouldnt be kept as a pet. I know it probably couldnt survive on its own in the wild after being thrown food all its life but its just wrong to throw in a live mouse, rat, etc where it has no way to escape. and its not always quick, i've watched videos on youtube before of various animals being eaten by snakes and other reptiles.

and its true that the frozen ones arent humanely killed, which is why I dont think its right either way.

They are pretty though, I'll give them that :)
I always wanted a corn snake, before I found out what they ate :(

[BUUZBEE]

I completly agree.
If the snake wont eat it already dead then it shouldnt be kept as a pet. I know it probably couldnt survive on its own in the wild after being thrown food all its life but its just wrong to throw in a live mouse, rat, etc where it has no way to escape. and its not always quick, i've watched videos on youtube before of various animals being eaten by snakes and other reptiles.


so acording to you, my husbands snake of 20 years should be "let go" to die? I have to say, thats the weakest point i've heard yet on the many times this has been a topic. Please dont give me the next line of they shouldn't be kept, because if thats the fact, then birds shouldnt be kept as pets either, confined to a cage!

and as for the videos seen on you tube... i can already guess the lovely characters posting on you tube to begin with, the most certanly are NOT looking out for the best intrest of the food or feeder!

[Goldielover]

I just did a little more googling into the killing of the feeders. Apparently, the "better" producers euthanize the feeders with carbon dioxide (CO2). They claim this method is recommended by the American Veterinary Medical Association as being the most humane.

[BUUZBEE]

and you know we cant trust the "better" producers most of the time at the stores, just like their "budgie breeders" aka budgie mills :(

It really comes down to the snake, and how reputable your supplier is in the end :)

[Will]

so acording to you, my husbands snake of 20 years should be "let go" to die? I have to say, thats the weakest point i've heard yet on the many times this has been a topic. Please dont give me the next line of they shouldn't be kept, because if thats the fact, then birds shouldnt be kept as pets either, confined to a cage!

and as for the videos seen on you tube... i can already guess the lovely characters posting on you tube to begin with, the most certanly are NOT looking out for the best intrest of the food or feeder!

I'm saying they never should've been kept as a pet. thats why I said "I know it probably couldnt survive on its own in the wild after being thrown food all its life". I know it couldnt be released.

But thats just me. I have strong opionions about things like this. I also believe that animals-whether it be a bird or a wild rat- would have a better life in captivity (if it had good owners) because it may not be able to run/fly all day long if it wanted but it would live much longer. So I think its fine that birds, etc are kept as pets because they dont need to be fed live animals or frozen dead ones.

Yeah, but the snakes still killed them slowly regardless. I saw a vid of a snake eat a live chick once and thepoor chick was alive up untill it swallowed it. It was cheeping like crazy as its head disappeared from view :( And the snake took at least 5 minutes to swallow it.
The person filming that is just sick :mad:

[BUUZBEE]

I'm sorry, but you are basing your opinion on a video off you tube. When a snake is properly fed, you want it to be hungry so it imediatly strikes, coils and kills. this happens in a matter of seconds!

And you are saying its ok to cage a bird so it has a longer life, but its not ok to feed a snake that kills its prey naturally?

[Goldielover]

and you know we cant trust the "better" producers most of the time at the stores, just like their "budgie breeders" aka budgie mills :(

It really comes down to the snake, and how reputable your supplier is in the end :)


That's why I put "better" in quotations.:)

[BUUZBEE]

That's why I put "better" in quotations.:)

LOL... i know :) you cant trust them... especially with what goes on behind closed doors and inspections :(

[Goldielover]

But thats just me. I have strong opionions about things like this. I also believe that animals-whether it be a bird or a wild rat- would have a better life in captivity (if it had good owners) because it may not be able to run/fly all day long if it wanted but it would live much longer. So I think its fine that birds, etc are kept as pets because they dont need to be fed live animals or frozen dead ones.



Ummm - I think this reasoning would also mean that dogs and cats shouldn't be kept because they eat meat?

[Will]

I'm sorry, but you are basing your opinion on a video off you tube. When a snake is properly fed, you want it to be hungry so it imediatly strikes, coils and kills. this happens in a matter of seconds!


Alot of people are irresponible, or just don't care so many snakes dont kill them quickly. Kudos to the people who do care though :)


And you are saying its ok to cage a bird so it has a longer life, but its not ok to feed a snake that kills its prey naturally?


In the wild it would be different. The animal would have a way to escape. It could try and run or hide.. and there's other reasons I oppose the keeping of mammal eating snakes that I dont want to get into.. Its just hard for me to explain :XD:

But I'm not going to make people not keep snakes or anything. I just personally don't like it.

Ummm - I think this reasoning would also mean that dogs and cats shouldn't be kept because they eat meat?

Its not that they eat meat thats the problem I have with it. Its that they eat them LIVE. Cats and dogs eat a food which has meat in it, they dont eat live mice as their diet.

[Pippin's mom]

Rainbow~ The Python you're getting is beautiful!:D His markings and coloring are very pretty. Congrats!

I find it some what amusing and perplexing that people get up in arms about someone keeping a snake if they have birds because the snake is a natural predator..umm..I think cats and dogs fall under that same catagory yet people who keep birds also keep dogs and cats and even go so far as having them(natural predator and prey) in the same room together with their birds OUT of their cage and even unsupervised while the bird is in its cage. Cats and dogs can knock down cages and get to the birds. Some poor birds don't even get much out of cage time because people don't know what to do with their cats and dogs while they have the bird out. Just doesn't make sense that dogs and cats are okay with people , but snakes aren't.

I don't have tons of snake experience, but I did keep a rat snake for several years and I also had a pac-man frog both who ate live food and personally I see nothing wrong with that..that's what they eat in nature so why should they be fed dead frozen food.Yuck! Most people want to give their birds as close to a natural diet as we can or at least we wish we could so why deprive snakes their natural food when we can supply it. Both My snake and frog ate mice and my frog also ate fish and crickets. Its so natural.:)

[Will]

I find it some what amusing and perplexing that people get up in arms about someone keeping a snake if they have birds because the snake is a natural predator..umm..I think cats and dogs fall under that same catagory yet people who keep birds also keep dogs and cats and even go so far as having them(natural predator and prey) in the same room together with their birds OUT of their cage and even unsupervised while the bird is in its cage. Cats and dogs can knock down cages and get to the birds. Some poor birds don't even get much out of cage time because people don't know what to do with their cats and dogs while they have the bird out. Just doesn't make sense that dogs and cats are okay with people , but snakes aren't.

Yeah.. true. But cats and dogs you can tell by their personality whether they would attack your birds. I have my cat Kitty in my room 24/7 with my birds, not to mention hamsters and a rabbit and duck that free range. and usually I let her stay in my room when I have my birds out (i always supervise though). If she did go to attack them I could tell through her body motions and the expression on her face (her eyes get dilated if she;s a little too interested). And when she gets too close to them i always move her away.

But with a snake you wouldnt know and if it wwas hungry if could eat your birds.

I know RATTIE's 3 mice were eaten by her snake when it got out :(

But its not that I JUST don't trust snakes.. when I get my rats and ferrets I'll keep locks on their cages in case they figure out how to open the cage and kill my other. I just don't like to take risks, I could never forgive myself if one of my pets ate another because I didnt take precautions.

[Goldielover]

I find it some what amusing and perplexing that people get up in arms about someone keeping a snake if they have birds because the snake is a natural predator..umm..I think cats and dogs fall under that same catagory yet people who keep birds also keep dogs and cats and even go so far as having them(natural predator and prey) in the same room together with their birds OUT of their cage and even unsupervised while the bird is in its cage. Cats and dogs can knock down cages and get to the birds. Some poor birds don't even get much out of cage time because people don't know what to do with their cats and dogs while they have the bird out. Just doesn't make sense that dogs and cats are okay with people , but snakes aren't.



And its a fine balancing act with cats and birds, I can tell you. I had to put quite a bit of thought into working out the right cage position, and poor Midge had a few frights until the cats finally learned that if they tried to make that six and a half foot jump from the 1" railing that is the closest point to the cage they will land hard on their furry butts. I wouldn't have the cats loose if Midge was out. I think one would be ok - he's fat, lazy, lame in a hind leg, and hasn't a single hunting instinct in his body as far as we can tell. However, he is a cat, so I'm not taking any chances. The others I wouldn't trust an inch. :( Midge doesn't get as much out of cage time as some birds do, but she does at least get some offered to her daily (even if she doesn't take advantage of it). It isn't easy when you're trying to trap three cats who don't want to be caught because they know they are going to be stuffed into the bathroom or into a closet.:(

For some reason, the rat was WAY more scared of Bobo than she was of the cats, so it was only fair on her to keep the snake elsewhere. The cats she ignored, and they weren't particularly interested in her either. I wish they were as disinterested in Midge.

There were several reasons why Bobo got switched to frozen food. Number one was the various care guides which warned it was a bit dangerous when they were eating full grown rats, as if the rat wasn't eaten immediately, there was the risk of the rat causing injury to the snake. That wouldn't happen in the wild, as the rat wouldn't be penned in with the snake. Number two was a supply problem - after having had the local pet shop run out of live fuzzies no less than three times, he pretty well had to be switched to frozen so he would have a steady supply. That was the only pet store within my range that actually sold live feeders. Number three was the girls (my daughter and my friend's daughter) who were only ten at the time. They kept wanting to rescue the feeder fuzzies and keep them as pets.

[BUUZBEE]

But with a snake you wouldnt know and if it wwas hungry if could eat your birds.


showing your novice with snakes...

Snakes dont eat just to eat... its not in their physics! They eat when they need too! People that have snakes and feed them know their schedule and KNOW when they are hungry.

and what responsible snake owner lets their HUNGRY snake prowl around the house?

[Will]

showing your novice with snakes...

Snakes dont eat just to eat... its not in their physics! They eat when they need too! People that have snakes and feed them know their schedule and KNOW when they are hungry.

and what responsible snake owner lets their HUNGRY snake prowl around the house?

I mean if they got loose on accident. Not very likely, sure, but still possible. Or if your birds fell in the snake tank if it wasn't closed properly, etc. I'm sure people would check all of that before letting their birds out but mistakes do happen.

And yeah, I do know that snakes don't eat when they're not hungry. I never said they did..
I actually have researched on certain species of snakes. Don't know why since I'll never keep any. (except for ones that eat either insects or eggs)

[Goldielover]

They can be escape artists, so if one is a responsible snake owner, one should have secure housing for them, especially if you have other pets. I know I requested a lockable terrarium for Bobo before I would agree to take him on for a whole winter. If he was out, he was with me. Our set up worked for us - everyone had their own space where they didn't have to look at something that would scare them, and no one managed to eat anyone else.:)

And you certainly do learn when they are hungry!! The times we were late with his fuzzies because we couldn't get any we were getting the most accusing glares. He needed to eat about every four to five days when he was little, and the intervals expanded as he got bigger.

[chompie_puppy]

I would love to own a snake one day! :D I think they are so gorgeous.

My friend has a Children's Python and he is the nicest little snake I have ever met. When you hold him in your hand it feels like someone is giving you a tight handshake. :p He likes to squeeze a tiny bit.

When I do get a snake I won't be keeping him in the same room as my birds though. Why cause unnecessary stress for your animals?

Birds and snakes are natural enemies, so I wouldn't want them to sense each other in their own territories.

I see no problem in keeping snakes, birds, rats, cats and dogs under one roof. You just need to be considerate of all your animals and make sure that they have a proper quality of life. You wouldn't want your birds to live in constant fear because a snake is a meter away from them.

I also think that as long as you do it right, then feeding live animals are ok. I will have a frog one day and that requires me to feed them live insects. It would be pretty hypocritical of me to eat fresh meat and then deny it to my pets when they need it.

[Pippin's mom]

Yeah.. true. But cats and dogs you can tell by their personality whether they would attack your birds. But with a snake you wouldnt know and if it wwas hungry if could eat your birds.
.

If owners can tell by their dogs and cats personalities whether or not they would attack their birds then how do you explain members of this forum and other bird forums coming to share the sad news that their beloved bird was killed by the family cat or dog who they swore when warned aganist letting them out together would NEVER hurt their bird? Or that the bird and cat/ dog are only out together under supervision...Opps it happened so fast that I couldn't stop it in time and now my bird is dead? Or how about the owner who actually lets their bird and cat/dog play together because they know without a doubt that THEIR dog/cat would NEVER harm their bird.....I don't understand what happened they have been pals for years..guess fido or princess just got a little too rough? When I no longer hear this kind of sad devastating news on bird forums then i might change my view, but as of now I have heard it way too much. I personally feel its completely irresponsible to have a bird out free range with a natural predator of any kind.

When I do get a snake I won't be keeping him in the same room as my birds though. Why cause unnecessary stress for your animals?

Birds and snakes are natural enemies, so I wouldn't want them to sense each other in their own territories.

I see no problem in keeping snakes, birds, rats, cats and dogs under one roof. You just need to be considerate of all your animals and make sure that they have a proper quality of life. You wouldn't want your birds to live in constant fear because a snake is a meter away from them.

I also think that as long as you do it right, then feeding live animals are ok. I will have a frog one day and that requires me to feed them live insects. It would be pretty hypocritical of me to eat fresh meat and then deny it to my pets when they need it.

I completely agree with all of the above!:)

[Budgietom]

I'm sure your birds are sooo happy they'll share a house with a snake :D

[lorri]

He's rather lovely, Snakes are not slimmy as they make out In facted thay are very warm and soft. I couldn't have one for a pet though, but it's for you to take it on.

[softie]

Congratulations on your soon-to-be snake! He's gorgeous! :D

Well, I've just read over the entire thread and I have one thing to stress out that many other members have stressed out as well.

Cats and dogs are predators to mice and birds. A snake is no different.

:)

I don't understand how some people can say "no" to a snake but "yes" to a cat or dog. What makes them so different? Personality is not really a good excuse as there are many stories of how their loving cat killed their budgie. All three have natural instincts to hunt down their prey, simple as that.

The one type of reptile that my parents never really got were snakes, mostly because snakes usually always found good homes before being needing to come to my parents. We did have one Piebald Ball Python. He lived with us for a few months before being adopted out. He was about 4 feet in length, very strong and yes, we gave him his natural prey, alive.

I feed Wendy live crickets, mealworms, and waxworms because that's what she needs to eat. She won't ever touch dead crickets, no matter how hungry she is.

One thing that I do have a problem with is feeding pinky mice to those animals that don't need it. I have seen people through pinky mice into their turtle tank. I have turtles and I have never once fed them pinky mice. First, turtles don't need to eat mice, and second, it's not healthy for them.

[Rainbow]

But cats and dogs you can tell by their personality whether they would attack your birds.
Some of the most friendly dogs and cats can kill/injure birds with out warning.

Birds and snakes are natural enemies, so I wouldn't want them to sense each other in their own territories.
I know where your getting at but snakes can sometimes be housed in the same room as other animals as long as they feel safe. When I had that rescued ball python in my room I let all my birds out and they could clearly see the snake inside it's tank moving around but my birds did not even take notice to the snake at all, they just continued playing, eating ect.... If I knew my birds would be scared and start freaking out then I would have never considered adding a snake into my room again but I got a chance to see how my birds react to a snake and they were all fine with it. :)

The tank cover I'm getting for my snake (Hagen Metal Mesh Cover) has no chance of him getting out, I'm even going to add extra duck tape around the tank cover even tho I probably won't need it. Thanks!

[rachelle83]

Well, I think you have done your research Rainbow. You've had first hand experience as to how your animals react, and from what I can tell, you are a very responsible owner. No one here can give you anything but their experiences and opinions. Only you know your situation fully and know what you can handle.

[tstmard]

Its not that they eat meat thats the problem I have with it. Its that they eat them LIVE. Cats and dogs eat a food which has meat in it, they dont eat live mice as their diet.

:laughing: Have you never had a cat that goes outside? Our cats used to bring us live birds, mice, and bats all the time. I have to say I think cats have it in their instinct more to kill birds then dogs do.



The tank cover I'm getting for my snake (Hagen Metal Mesh Cover) has no chance of him getting out, I'm even going to add extra duck tape around the tank cover even tho I probably won't need it.

My friend that had the boa had a locking lid as well as she somehow had velcro that went around the lid to seal it even more. I think she had 2 small strips 1 on the tank and 1 on the lid and then 1 wide one that covered both of the smaller strips that wrapped around the tank and lid.
Good luck with getting your snake and I hope that if it does cause stress to any of your existing pets you'll be able to move it to another room and keep everyone comfortable.

[Goldielover]

The tank cover I'm getting for my snake (Hagen Metal Mesh Cover) has no chance of him getting out, I'm even going to add extra duck tape around the tank cover even tho I probably won't need it. Thanks!

If your tank is one of the ones that doesn't have a top frame, then I think you will need to duct tape it (or whatever). If your tank does have the top frame, then the cover should clip on to the frame reasonably securely, but extra never hurts. It looks like the door in the cover has a latch, which is good. (I checked the web site.)

Hopefully you will be able to keep everyone safe, and no one gets eaten. It can be done. I did. Good luck.

[my2pals]

I am a huge snake fan I think they are so wonderful and precious in there own way, I have always wanted Albino Burmese Python, I cannot say enough how much and how many shows I have gone to and had the pleasure of interacting with these wonderful animals..Good Luck and keep us all posted..

[Will]

Have you never had a cat that goes outside? Our cats used to bring us live birds, mice, and bats all the time. I have to say I think cats have it in their instinct more to kill birds then dogs do.


Yeah, right now we have 3 outdoor cats (which I don't like because I don't like having my pets live outside) and they've killed rats, birds, squirrels, moles, lizards, etc. And i hate that. But there isn't anything I can do about it except bring them inside but I can't, yet.

I just don't like animals being killed, whether its necessary or not. I remember when i was about 6 my science teacher fed a live rat to the boa in the classroom and ever since then I've hated snakes that eat mammals.

[Rebeccaveggie]

Im sorry but I could never hold something in my own hands that I was giving to its death. It seems so inhumane. A pet snake is not in the wild. Its not natural being locked up in a tank so why should it have natural food? Why cant it have rats that dont have to suffer the most terrible fear and death, ones that are frozen. This is like the wing clipping thread. The birds are in cages so why cant they have their wings clipped. Those who said that are now being hypocritical and saying they want their snakes to be as natural as possible. And for people to have pets rodents and then feed live ones to a pet snake is terrible. I dont think they should be kept in the same ROOM as rabbits ect. Its just not fair.If you can eat already dead animals then so can your snake.

[Goldielover]

Im sorry but I could never hold something in my own hands that I was giving to its death. It seems so inhumane. A pet snake is not in the wild. Its not natural being locked up in a tank so why should it have natural food? Why cant it have rats that dont have to suffer the most terrible fear and death, ones that are frozen. This is like the wing clipping thread. The birds are in cages so why cant they have their wings clipped. Those who said that are now being hypocritical and saying they want their snakes to be as natural as possible. And for people to have pets rodents and then feed live ones to a pet snake is terrible. I dont think they should be kept in the same ROOM as rabbits ect. Its just not fair.If you can eat already dead animals then so can your snake.


Actually, it felt a little weird even feeding the frozen mice and rats, knowing we had two pet mice and a pet rat in another room.:( But I knew Bobo had to eat too, and you're right - none of our pets are eating a fully natural diet. Actually, even a dead rodent is probably closer to a natural diet than the pellets we feed our birds, not to mention what we feed out dogs and cats.

However, we were lucky - Bobo adapted very well to eating pre-killed food, but I know there are some snakes who won't touch it.

Also agree that it is really better to keep them in a separate room from other pets who would be considered prey animals. I know this isn't always possible for some of our younger members who are still living at home with their parents. Doesn't apply to me - I AM the parent, so I can keep my pets in whatever room I choose to.:D

[keet_tweet4]

Congratulations on your soon-to-be snake! He's gorgeous! :D

Well, I've just read over the entire thread and I have one thing to stress out that many other members have stressed out as well.

Cats and dogs are predators to mice and birds. A snake is no different.

:)

I don't understand how some people can say "no" to a snake but "yes" to a cat or dog. What makes them so different? Personality is not really a good excuse as there are many stories of how their loving cat killed their budgie. All three have natural instincts to hunt down their prey, simple as that.

The one type of reptile that my parents never really got were snakes, mostly because snakes usually always found good homes before being needing to come to my parents. We did have one Piebald Ball Python. He lived with us for a few months before being adopted out. He was about 4 feet in length, very strong and yes, we gave him his natural prey, alive.

I feed Wendy live crickets, mealworms, and waxworms because that's what she needs to eat. She won't ever touch dead crickets, no matter how hungry she is.

One thing that I do have a problem with is feeding pinky mice to those animals that don't need it. I have seen people through pinky mice into their turtle tank. I have turtles and I have never once fed them pinky mice. First, turtles don't need to eat mice, and second, it's not healthy for them.

Cats and dogs don't live in one room of the house, with the birds, usually they are free to wander to house.

Yes, all three have natural instincts to hunt their prey, so that is why I am against having any of them near your birds, no matter how comfortable your birds seem around Slinky, no matter how loving Fluffy is, no matter how good-hearted Rover is.

I know that the OP is young and still lives with their parents so it is hard to find another room to place the snake. I can sympathize with that. But still, it isn't worth the risk or the stress on your prey animals.

P.S. - "Slinky". :laughing:

[naburu]

Im sorry but I could never hold something in my own hands that I was giving to its death. It seems so inhumane. A pet snake is not in the wild. Its not natural being locked up in a tank so why should it have natural food? Why cant it have rats that dont have to suffer the most terrible fear and death, ones that are frozen. This is like the wing clipping thread. The birds are in cages so why cant they have their wings clipped. Those who said that are now being hypocritical and saying they want their snakes to be as natural as possible. And for people to have pets rodents and then feed live ones to a pet snake is terrible. I dont think they should be kept in the same ROOM as rabbits ect. Its just not fair.If you can eat already dead animals then so can your snake.

No, they aren't in there natural habitat, but they do deserve their natural food. If you moved to some weird country where they gave you a different food everyday than what you liked, and were used to, it would be terrible, would it not? My uncle used to breed them, and raise them on a snake farm. They all got LIVE mice and rats. It's good for them. It provides stimulation. There aren't many "snake toys" that they can put in there to keep them occupied. It might SEEM inhumane, but that's the thing...

in·hu·mane /ˌɪnhyuˈmeɪn/
–adjective not humane; lacking humanity, kindness, compassion, etc.

Lacking HUMANITY. Animals are not human, and you can't expect them to be humane just because YOU think it's not right for them to eat how and what they eat. Mice/rats/rabbits are all pretty low on the food chain... And that's just how it is.

:)

[Rebeccaveggie]

But this isnt natural. To put a live creature in a tank where it has NO chance of survival is not natural. Snakes dont know their real country. They know what we give them. They know their tank. Its like saying a somebody who originates from a certain counrty but has been born into another has to eat its counrty of origins food. Its stupid.

[Rebeccaveggie]

Also. I think it terribly hypocritical of people to cherish pet rodents then dis- attach themselves from an identical live ones and watch them die with their very own eyes.

[naburu]

But this isnt natural. To put a live creature in a tank where it has NO chance of survival is not natural. Snakes dont know their real country. They know what we give them. They know their tank. Its like saying a somebody who originates from a certain counrty but has been born into another has to eat its counrty of origins food. Its stupid.

No, it isn't stupid.
And if you buy a snake from someone, they might have fed it live food.
Don't tell me it is stupid to try and make your pet happy.
They have the INSTINCT to eat LIVE food.
And my example of moving you to another country...
I didn't mean, "You are born in China, you like Chinese food."
I meant, You're raised eating ONE THING and someone suddenly refuses it to you and feeds you something else.

[Rebeccaveggie]

The whole thought of sending a defencless little rodent to it death, sharing its last harrowing moments, looking in its eyes, it disturbs me. It would also disturb any one with a heart. Animals are really trusting and to betray their trust is awful.

[naburu]

The whole thought of sending a defencless little rodent to it death, sharing its last harrowing moments, looking in its eyes, it disturbs me. It would also disturb any one with a heart. Animals are really trusting and to betray their trust is awful.

I really don't appreciate you saying that my family, Anna {buuzbee}, and myself are heartless people. We are not heartless. It is ignorant to call someone heartless. It may disturb you, but no one is telling you to go feed the snakes, now are they? We are merely trying to get you to see things from another perspective, you don't need to insult us. It does NOT disturb me to feed a snake. It actually is interesting. If you think I'm heartless for feeding snakes mice, then that's on you. But I know that I take care of my PETS and love them, and I used to breed mice and keep them as pets. I had near 30 mice... I loved them. They were my pets/companions. But feeder mice are exactly that. For FOOD. You can speak your mind, and share your opinois, but don't say that I'm heartless, because I do indeed have a healthy beating heart.

[naburu]

The whole thought of sending a defencless little rodent to it death, sharing its last harrowing moments, looking in its eyes, it disturbs me. It would also disturb any one with a heart. Animals are really trusting and to betray their trust is awful.

You don't keep feeder mice as pets, there is no trust, and there is no breaking of any trust. You keep them healthy and in a cage until your snake is hungry and then you pick one to feed. And that's the end of it. It isn't tortured, it's just alive one minute, devoured the next.

[naburu]

Yeah, right now we have 3 outdoor cats (which I don't like because I don't like having my pets live outside) and they've killed rats, birds, squirrels, moles, lizards, etc. And i hate that. But there isn't anything I can do about it except bring them inside but I can't, yet.

I just don't like animals being killed, whether its necessary or not. I remember when i was about 6 my science teacher fed a live rat to the boa in the classroom and ever since then I've hated snakes that eat mammals.

I understand not liking it, but keep in mind... The food chain has it's purposes.


BTW, did you know cats bring you dead animals to feed you? They think of you as their kitten, and bring you food in the form of dead birds and mice. That's why you should never yell at your cat for bringing them to you, because it can "hurt it's feelings" in a sense. You're supposed to just take the dead animal and throw it out.

[Will]

BTW, did you know cats bring you dead animals to feed you? They think of you as their kitten, and bring you food in the form of dead birds and mice. That's why you should never yell at your cat for bringing them to you, because it can "hurt it's feelings" in a sense. You're supposed to just take the dead animal and throw it out.

Yeah I know. we never yell at themand in a way its sweet of them to bring us dead animals but I feel so bad for the dead animals. I always think 'why couldn't you have brought us a LIVE animal?" (I know that some cats and dogs do that).

You don't keep feeder mice as pets, there is no trust, and there is no breaking of any trust.

There is NO difference between feeder mice/rats and fancy rats/mice. They are the same species only labeled a different 'name'. So it would be breaking their trust.
My pet mice always ran over and sat in my hand when I put my hand in. They trusted me. But think if i were to let them crawl onto my hand and then throw them into a snake tank. That would be wrong on so many levels.

The whole thought of sending a defencless little rodent to it death, sharing its last harrowing moments, looking in its eyes, it disturbs me. It would also disturb any one with a heart. Animals are really trusting and to betray their trust is awful.

Completly agree.

[Goldielover]

Yeah I know. we never yell at themand in a way its sweet of them to bring us dead animals but I feel so bad for the dead animals. I always think 'why couldn't you have brought us a LIVE animal?" (I know that some cats and dogs do that).









My cats are indoor ones now, but years ago I used to have ones that went outside. I used to hate it when they brought in something alive, as nine times out of ten it was injured and the cat wanted me to watch it playing with its prey.

Also, my Mom used to wake up to half alive mice the cat had brought in and left for her on her bed.

Dead ones were much easier to deal with.

[Pippin's mom]

The thing is we humans have messed with the natural order of things by keeping animals as pets...so no, they are not in their natural enviroment. Because we did this it is our duty and responsibility to create for them a life as closly as we possibly can to what is natural for them and for some that includes live foods. I can't even imagine offering a snake , frog , or whatever a cold stiff one..it is not natural.

Again I'm some what amused by the people who are so set aganist feeding snakes their natural food sources, but yet these same people are just as against wing clipping because it is "unnatural", but they don't mind depriving another animal by giving it what is unatural for its health and life. No hyprocracy there.:P

It is not heartless to feed live food..its the natural order of things that we messed with.:) Its not the animals fault its not where it truly belongs doing what comes naturally..so we need to provide it if possible though it will never be the best or perfect.

[Will]

The thing is we humans have messed with the natural order of things by keeping animals as pets...so no, they are not in their natural enviroment. Because we did this it is our duty and responsibility to create for them a life as closly as we possibly can to what is natural for them and for some that includes live foods. I can't even imagine offering a snake , frog , or whatever a cold stiff one..it is not natural.

Again I'm some what amused by the people who are so set aganist feeding snakes their natural food sources, but yet these same people are just as against wing clipping because it is "unnatural", but they don't mind depriving another animal by giving it what is unatural for its health and life. No hyprocracy there.:P

It is not heartless to feed live food..its the natural order of things that we messed with.:) Its not the animals fault its not where it truly belongs doing what comes naturally..so we need to provide it if possible though it will never be the best or perfect.

But it's also not the rodents fault we domesicated them and started keeping them as pets. So why should they be fed to the snakes, that we also took from their natural habitat?

People never should've tried to make pets out of any reptiles that must eat live animals or even frozen ones, in my opinion.

[keet_tweet4]

Again I'm some what amused by the people who are so set aganist feeding snakes their natural food sources, but yet these same people are just as against wing clipping because it is "unnatural", but they don't mind depriving another animal by giving it what is unatural for its health and life. No hyprocracy there.

Some of the people who belive snakes should eat live food agree with wing clipping (don't you?). That's hypocritical too.


I don't think snakes should be pets either, but the snakes that can eat frozen food, should. Ones where there's no possible way that they can eat frozen, then fine, they can eat live food...but personally I couldn't have one like that.

[naburu]

There is NO difference between feeder mice/rats and fancy rats/mice. They are the same species only labeled a different 'name'. So it would be breaking their trust.
My pet mice always ran over and sat in my hand when I put my hand in. They trusted me. But think if i were to let them crawl onto my hand and then throw them into a snake tank. That would be wrong on so many levels.


I know they are the same thing, just labeled differently. But you aren't buying them as pets, and aren't bonding or interacting with them, so there is no trust.

[keet_tweet4]

I was on a training course at the Toronto Zoo (third largest zoo in North American, or the world, or something) and they said that the snakes were born in captivity and that rats and mice could attack them if they weren't used to live food, and that they fed all their snakes frozen food. They said if the snake was sick and wasn't eating the frozen, they'ld put in a live animal, but the keeper had to stay with it for twenty minutes to make sure it didn't attack the snake. If it wasn't eaten after twenty minutes, they'ld take it away as in the wild it would have another chance to live as it could escape.

That's what they do, and I agree with it. I think it's fair.

People who have snakes that eat live, I don't think them heartless, what I do find heartless was if they considered it amusing and did it for the entertainment value.

[naburu]

I was on a training course at the Toronto Zoo (third largest zoo in North American, or the world, or something) and they said that the snakes were born in captivity and that rats and mice could attack them if they weren't used to live food, and that they fed all their snakes frozen food. They said if the snake was sick and wasn't eating the frozen, they'ld put in a live animal, but the keeper had to stay with it for twenty minutes to make sure it didn't attack the snake. If it wasn't eaten after twenty minutes, they'ld take it away as in the wild it would have another chance to live as it could escape.

That's what they do, and I agree with it. I think it's fair.

People who have snakes that eat live, I don't think them heartless, what I do find heartless was if they considered it amusing and did it for the entertainment value.

I don't think it's amusing, but I do find it INTERESTING. I like to watch shark attacks, explosions, mice being eaten, and lions chasing down gazelle. ;)

[Serenity]

I looked into getting a snake at one point in time, so I have a small bit of knowledge on this. From what I've read, many snake owners prefer to feed their snakes frozen food if the snake will take it... mice and rats can and do bite hard and could very well cause injury to the snake. It's not always possible because some snakes just won't take live food.

I'll stay neutral on my own opinion. I don't have a snake, so I can't really make judgments on someone who does.

The reason I wanted to post is that I wanted to note... the people who are against live feeding, I sure hope you're vegans, because I'm sure you don't want to know what happens to your meat before you eat it. I'm sure not all of it has been humanely killed, and unless you're supplementing your diet with a good amount of protein, we all need meat to survive. Welcome to the food chain.

I'd like to stress what Pippin's Mom said:
The thing is we humans have messed with the natural order of things by keeping animals as pets...so no, they are not in their natural environment.

Taking an animal out of its natural environment and keeping it as a pet means you're responsible for it. If that means feeding a snake live foods when it refuses to eat frozen ones, so be it. If that means clipping a bird's wings so that it won't fly into a window, so be it.

That's my view on these topics, and I don't think it's hypocritical at all. :)

[Pippin's mom]

Some of the people who belive snakes should eat live food agree with wing clipping (don't you?). That's hypocritical too.


Yes I do agree with wing clipping as sometimes it is necessary for the safety of the bird in certain enviroments, but I don't consider me to be hypocritical because I am also NOT at all aganist Having birds fully flighted or saying clipping is the only way. In fact all of my birds are fully flighted except Baylee because his flights have not come in all the way yet. And in fact I prefer my birds to be fully flighted, but if someone else needs to clip their birds for a reason that is in the birds best interest then I'm not going to make them feel guilty. That is the difference. :)

[naburu]

Nicely put Pippin's Mom.

[Goldielover]

Rats in particular can cause quite a bit of damage to the snake if they get a chance to attack it. In the wild neither one would be in a pen, and the one which was getting the worst of it would have a fighting chance of escape. That can't happen in the pen. As I said earlier, the main reason Bobo was switched to frozen was due to a supply issue. The local pet store didn't always have live feeders, but frozen ones were freely available. Once he was eating frozen, it didn't make sense to switch him back again. And there were no more of those "try again next week" visits to the store looking for his dinner. He was always guaranteed his dinner would be there on time. Like the wing clipping issue, this is one where each individual owner will have to make the choice that is best for them and for their pet. I would consider I am pretty well in the middle on both issues. I'm not against wing clipping, but I have chosen not to clip due to the feral felines. Same with the snake - I chose to feed frozen because it was more available than live food, but if he refused it, then I would have made the three hour journey to the next pet store I am aware of that carries live feeders (I don't drive, so getting around on transit can be slow). I certainly wouldn't have starved him due to any qualms about live feeders.

[Will]

The reason I wanted to post is that I wanted to note... the people who are against live feeding, I sure hope you're vegans, because I'm sure you don't want to know what happens to your meat before you eat it. I'm sure not all of it has been humanely killed, and unless you're supplementing your diet with a good amount of protein, we all need meat to survive. Welcome to the food chain.


I'm vegetarian, but not vegan. Probably will be one day though.
Our meat is way more inhumane and they're treated very inhumanely before they're killed too. At least most feeder animals aren't treated badly usually.

I think that if the snake will take something dead then you should feed it frozen foods. I mean, it doesn't even matter all that much to the snake probably. I don't know how intelligent snakes are but I doubt they're thinking "ew, more dead food. i wish I had a live rat right now instead''. If a snake has never been fed live food it won't even know the difference.

[naburu]

Snakes are very intelligent, FYI. ;)
And even if it had never been fed live food, it would still be instinct to WANT live food.

[chompie_puppy]

Ok...

We as humans eat a lot of meat. A LOT! I would say about 90% of the animals we eat are kept in horrible conditions and they suffer when they are slaughtered. :( It is sad, but true.

It is so easy to just stop seeing these animals as living, breathing and feeling creatures. Yes, they are born to be eaten but that does not mean that they don't feel pain, anger or happiness.

Because of this I will only eat animals that were kept humanely. This is difficult to monitor but the very least I can do is buy Free Range eggs and chickens instead of Battery eggs and chickens.

My point is:

Feeder rats and mice are born to be eaten. The only thing a snake owner can do (and should do) about this is make sure that these rodents have a very high quality of life. Just because they are food does not mean they can be kept in dirty and overcrowded cages.

If you are the owner of a snake that only eats live prey then you really have no choice. What can you do but feed it live mice? Yes, I suppose you can give the snake away to someone else... but that just means that someone else will feed it live prey.

You can't let the snake starve. It was bred in captivity and therefore can't survive in the wild. Isn't it just as cruel to let it die than to feed it live food?

Just a wake up call, but frozen rats and mice were kept in terrible conditions when they were alive. Look it up and you will see that these animals are almost never cleaned and rarely fed a proper diet if they are fed at all. They are kept in overcrowded conditions and sometimes have no choice but the eat each other out of stress and hunger.

Isn't it better then to get your own live rats and mice and ensure they have an excellent life before you feed them to a snake? I think that option is much better than getting a rodent that has been tortured its entire life and then nicely vacuum packed and frozen for your convenience.

[keet_tweet4]

I don't think it's amusing, but I do find it INTERESTING. I like to watch shark attacks, explosions, mice being eaten, and lions chasing down gazelle. ;)

Just so you know, that wasn't directed at you or anyone. =)

Yes I do agree with wing clipping as sometimes it is necessary for the safety of the bird in certain enviroments, but I don't consider me to be hypocritical because I am also NOT at all aganist Having birds fully flighted or saying clipping is the only way. In fact all of my birds are fully flighted except Baylee because his flights have not come in all the way yet. And in fact I prefer my birds to be fully flighted, but if someone else needs to clip their birds for a reason that is in the birds best interest then I'm not going to make them feel guilty. That is the difference.

I'm confused, so are you okay with snakes eating frozen food in some circumstances?

[Goldielover]

Ok...


Just a wake up call, but frozen rats and mice were kept in terrible conditions when they were alive. Look it up and you will see that these animals are almost never cleaned and rarely fed a proper diet if they are fed at all. They are kept in overcrowded conditions and sometimes have no choice but the eat each other out of stress and hunger.



Can't guarantee the conditions the feeders were kept in, but the ones I bought were plump and well fed looking. People aren't going to buy them if they're just skin and bone.

[naburu]

Chombie_puppy makes a very good point. A few in fact!

Just so you know, that wasn't directed at you or anyone. =)

Alrighty, just clearing up the fact that I'm not a sicko. ;)

[chompie_puppy]

Can't guarantee the conditions the feeders were kept in, but the ones I bought were plump and well fed looking. People aren't going to buy them if they're just skin and bone.

Yes, I understand that. I actually don't have a problem with feeding frozen or live feeders. If your snake eats frozen, then that's fine and probably a lot less emotional for you as a snake owner. (At least it would be for me! :)) If it only eats live food, then that's fine too.

I just don't want people to think it is cruel to feed a snake living mice and fine to feed it frozen mice. It sounds a bit like double standards to me becuase we have no idea what is going through feeder rats and mice's mind when there is the daily mass killing to package them for the public.

I'm pretty sure rodents can smell fear and death. Can you imagine how terrified they are when suddenly a hundred of them get scooped up and killed in batches?

I think if you are against feeding a snake living food, then you should be against feeding them frozen food too. In both cases the feeders are panicking and terrified before death.

This is why I will keep my own feeders and make sure they have a great life before they get eaten. That is the least I can do and the least they deserve.

[Pippin's mom]

Just so you know, that wasn't directed at you or anyone. =)



I'm confused, so are you okay with snakes eating frozen food in some circumstances?

As I said before I think it is our responsibility to make things as natural as we possibly can for our pets since we have taken that away from them. As with wing clipping ..yes in certain circumstances feeding frozen would be okay if it was in the best interest of the snake at the time...such as in Goldielover's case where having access to live food was a hit or miss situation and her snake has to eat. I wouldn't put her down for that or try to guilt trip her into not doing it.

Chompie~ great post!:D That is exactly what we did when we had our Rat Snake and Pac Man Frog..we kept our own mice. They were very well taken care of just like all of our other animals. The same when we had our Jack Dempsy and Oscar fish..who ate live feeder fish.

I know I go in the pet stores and look at the mice and rats and they are a lot of times living in pure filth in cages so crowded that they are all piled high on top of each other. Their food and water completely filthy and full of waste and whatever.:(

Thankfully we get our meat from our friends ranch so we know the animals are all well cared for and the meat we get is all natural..they are only fed oats at the very end and there is a reason for this, but until then its all free range. We also get our eggs, milk , everything from them.:) We hope to raise our own meat eventually.

[Rebeccaveggie]

To me ,the fact your saying keep it as natural as possible then clipping your birds wings is hypocritical. The fact you say keep it as natural as possible then locking up your pets is hypocritical. I would feel so ashamed of myself if I placed an animal in a tank to die. I wouldnt be able to look at the poor creature. What everybody forgets is that animals are living, breathing, feeling and responsive creatures. Chickens and budgies are both birds. How is it we pet one and kill and eat the other? Feeder mice and fancy mice are both mice. How is it we send one to death and pet the other? Cows and horses are both large animals with 4 legs. How is it we ride one and eat the other and call ourselves animal lovers? HYPOCRISY.

[RATTIE]

Congrats on the snake. I have a WC rosie boa that I keep in the same room as my cats, birds, fish and rabbit. Tanks are not good for snakes because there is some sort of gas that builds up in the bottom over time that can kill the snake. I don't feed my snake live food because a live mouse or rat can kill a snake.

[absolutangel]

Cows and horses are both large animals with 4 legs. How is it we ride one and eat the other and call ourselves animal lovers? HYPOCRISY.

That kind of depends where you live, horse is eaten in some places.

Obviously at some point in time man has determined what is good to eat (cow) and what is more productive as a means of transport (horse) and that is something that has stuck. In the same way man had chosen to domesticate certain animals while others are primarily seen as food. Which category an animal falls into varies regionally, I'm sure a similar discussion has been had on here before about some nationalities eating animals we'd consider pets. Incidentally the word budgerigar comes from an Aborigine word meaning "good to eat" so I'm guessing at some time they have been on the menu.

I'm not a veggie but I try and ensure I buy local produce and stuff that has not been intensively/battery farmed and I don't think it's hypocritical to say I'm an animal lover.

[tstmard]

My thoughts are that if this thread bothers you quit reading it! And arguing. I don't think anyones opinion is going to be changed except maybe think less of those that are making stupid remarks and calling people hypocryts and heartless. I think it's pretty clear now where everyone stands as far as live feeding goes.

[keet_tweet4]

Well...technically if you say you try to keep it as natural as possible for your pets, then it is hypocritical if you clip your birds' wings.

It's pretty impossible to keep all your pets very natural. Birds are in cages with plastic toys made by slaves in China...they eat packaged food presented to them in a bowl...they have water in a dish...their wings are clipped...etc. Not very natural at all...

[naburu]

To me ,the fact your saying keep it as natural as possible then clipping your birds wings is hypocritical. The fact you say keep it as natural as possible then locking up your pets is hypocritical. I would feel so ashamed of myself if I placed an animal in a tank to die. I wouldnt be able to look at the poor creature. What everybody forgets is that animals are living, breathing, feeling and responsive creatures. Chickens and budgies are both birds. How is it we pet one and kill and eat the other? Feeder mice and fancy mice are both mice. How is it we send one to death and pet the other? Cows and horses are both large animals with 4 legs. How is it we ride one and eat the other and call ourselves animal lovers? HYPOCRISY.

A. People eat horse.
B. People eat/ate budgies.
C. Stop calling us hypocrits.

If you can't come up with anything other than, "You're hypocrits.", then what's the point of posting? You are repeating yourself, and it isn't helping your argument. ;)

I'd love to hear some valid points though, and many have been posted by others. :)

[keet_tweet4]

People don't eat budgies, actually. The name "budgerigar" is Australian for "good food", but they never actually ate them.

[naburu]

People don't eat budgies, actually. The name "budgerigar" is Australian for "good food", but they never actually ate them.

Yes they did, the Aboriginies would eat them. I know I've seen it many times.
I will try to look it up.

[keet_tweet4]

All the books I've read mentions it, but they said they never actually ate any. And nobody does it nowadays, so actually, it's not really related to the topic at hand...

[Goldielover]

People don't eat budgies, actually. The name "budgerigar" is Australian for "good food", but they never actually ate them.

I would be very surprised if the Aborigines hadn't eaten them at some time in their past. There isn't too much that is "off the menu" in a traditional hunter gatherer society.

Here's an excerpt from a paper I found.....


The name “Budgerigar” is the original native Australian aboriginal name, and means in translation “good food.” According to Neville Cayley, who wrote Budgerigars in the Bush and Aviary, the first part of the name (boodgeree) meant “good” and the latter part (gai) meant “food” or “to eat.” It was one of the responsibilities of aboriginal youth to collect the young budgerigars from their wild habitat, whereupon they were quickly roasted and eaten. To catch them, the boys threw sticks and rocks at the birds as they gathered toward evening. After they were collected, they were thrown on the ashes of cooking fires, which singed off the feathers. The people, so hungry for animal protein, then ate them. Dr. Donald Thompson, Associate Professor of Anthropology at Melbourne University, corroborates this report.

[Rainbow]

The reason I wanted to post is that I wanted to note... the people who are against live feeding, I sure hope you're vegans, because I'm sure you don't want to know what happens to your meat before you eat it. I'm sure not all of it has been humanely killed, and unless you're supplementing your diet with a good amount of protein, we all need meat to survive. Welcome to the food chain.
I good not agree more!

I would not be a vegetarian if not for the way our food is being killed.

NO it's not natural and NO that mouse/rat has no chance of escape but guess what... that snake still has it's natural instincts to attack and kill it's prey. Now if you think it's horrible that snake owners feed live that's your problem and I understand you feel sorry for the cute little mouse but I bet if that mouse was an ant then it would not be such a big deal would it? you step on God knows how many bugs a day and they feel pain too but I don't see anyone complaining about that?

Warning: What I'm about to say below is graphic, how chickens are killed for human consumption.

The meat that humans eat can be tortured in the most horrible ways! this is what chicken has to go through before it ends up on your dinner plate.... when they are babies their beaks are chopped off at the tip with no pain killers so they don't peck at each other as their being crammed into tiny cages, they are over fed and drugged, many of these poor chickens grow so big that they can't even walk to the feed or water bowl to get a drink of water. Many chickens get sick and sometimes the people hit them with metal poles... breaking legs, necks ect... leaving them to die a slow and painful death... if they don't die once fully grown and fattened they are hung up side down painfully by their feet as they go around in a machine that cuts their throats open, as blood gushes from their necks they are thrown into hot boiling water to remove their feathers, sadly not all the chickens are dead before that part comes. :(

Think about that before you complain about snake owners.

[keet_tweet4]

Goldielover - That's interesting. I never knew that before. Thanks!

However, since in today's society nobody eats them, it has nothing to do with the topic. ;)

I am a vegetarian.

[Pippin's mom]

Haley and Rebeccaveggie~
I personally said I try to keep my pets as natural as possible, but I also said that we definitely fall short of that and its far from perfect..you can't ever duplicate that which is perfect and meant to be naturally. We can only do our best and should try to do our best.

I DO NOT clip my birds wings except for when I first get them for their own safety and that is not being hyprocritical its being a responsible owner who doesn't want her birds to become injured because they are in unfamiliar surroundings. I also don't think its hypocritical if someone is trying their best to keep things as natural as possible, but needs to keep their birds clipped because they just can't make their enviroment safe enough for their birds to be fully flighted.

I have also heard the arguement here that a domestic snake never lived in the wild so it doesn't know it should have live food if they have never had it before. Well that same way of thinking can also apply to birds. If their wings have always been clipped then they wouldn't know any different..because wing clipping done properly DOES NOT prevent them from flying.

You both have stated your opinions that you could never feed live food to another animal and that's fine..don't do it...but, because you feel the way you do does not mean that the rest of us are hypocrites because we don't share you're feelings on the subject. I love animals, but I also reasonable understand that animals were created for various purposes..some for working, some for eating, some for hunting, etc..

Some of you are vegetarian and that fine..its your choice, but it is also the choice of many to eat meat and I don't appreciate you guys cramming your views down our throats and trying to guilt trip and convert us..just as you wouldn't want someone's religion crammed down your throat or have them try to convert you. This feels the same to me and in that way I feel some of you are being hypocritical. I would add to that those of you who feel strongly that adoption should be the only way one gets an animal and that those of us who don't adopt are doing something wrong because we buy from a breeder or pet store and are less animal lovers. I also don't appreciate that being shoved down our throats..if you feel that way fine , but not everyone does or has to feel the same as you to love and care about animals.

So take a look at yourselves and stop name calling. Because a person doesn't agree with you does not make them a hypocrite.

Susan is right no one is going to chage the other's opinion and when it gets down to where all you can do is name call and keep pounding on the same things you have already said..the discussion becomes pointless. People are going to have differences in opinions..that's just a fact and its okay.:)

[keet_tweet4]

Read my old posts, I never said no snakes should eat live food. If the only way for them to eat, I said it was okay, but I'ld prefer dead food. Just saying.

[Goldielover]

Goldielover - That's interesting. I never knew that before. Thanks!

However, since in today's society nobody eats them, it has nothing to do with the topic. ;)

I am a vegetarian.


I know - just trying for a little historical perspective here....

The food chain is a constantly evolving thing. Our ancestors ate things we would never dream of eating today. How many people today would eat a peacock or a swan? They were considered royal delicacies in medieval and Tudor times.:) Its cultural, too. Most of us wouldn't dream of eating dog or cat, but they are part of the menu in some parts of the world.

I do eat meat, although not every day. However, I fully support the right of a non meat eater to choose to do what is right for them, and I would never dream of trying to turn them away from their choices. In return, I expect the same consideration.

Same with the topic at hand - everyone has to make their own decisions based on what is right for them. No one else has the right to dictate.

[Pippin's mom]

Haley that's not even really my point anymore I made that point awhile back...my point is you guys are pushing your views on others and name calling because others don't agree with you.:(

In fact if that's all you pulled out of my last post was about feeding snakes live food then you missed a lot of my points.:rolleyes:

Well put Goldielover!:thumbsup:

I'm done with this discussion..its just becoming repetitious and pointless.

[keet_tweet4]

I don't think I was pushing my views or name-calling. If I did, I apologize, and I'll look back through to try to find out where I did. I don't think I said outright anybody was a hypocrite, I think I said "If you think wing-clipping is okay and you live feed because it's most natural and you give your pets most natural..." or something...and I said if people thought it was humorous and laughed when they fed their snake, then they were heartless. I didn't call anybody heartless who fed their snake live food because that's the only way it'll eat...

Actually, I've been called a hypocrite in other threads. Nobody considered it "name-calling" then. But whatever, that was long ago.


I know - just trying for a little historical perspective here....

The food chain is a constantly evolving thing. Our ancestors ate things we would never dream of eating today. How many people today would eat a peacock or a swan? They were considered royal delicacies in medieval and Tudor times.:) Its cultural, too. Most of us wouldn't dream of eating dog or cat, but they are part of the menu in some parts of the world.

I do eat meat, although not every day. However, I fully support the right of a non meat eater to choose to do what is right for them, and I would never dream of trying to turn them away from their choices. In return, I expect the same consideration.

Same with the topic at hand - everyone has to make their own decisions based on what is right for them. No one else has the right to dictate.


I agree. I wasn't saying that to you, exactly, I think it was naburu who used it as a fact about how people aren't hypocrites or something. I was just saying that when RebeccaVeggie said "people eat chickens but keep budgies as pets" that it is correct, people do eat chickens and they do keep budgies as pets, and that nobody nowadays eats budgies. I hope that makes sense. =)

[Pippin's mom]

Rainbow~ I hope when you get your beautiful snake you will post some pics in a new thread!:D I can't wait to see him.

[Goldielover]

I agree. I wasn't saying that to you, exactly, I think it was naburu who used it as a fact about how people aren't hypocrites or something. I was just saying that when RebeccaVeggie said "people eat chickens but keep budgies as pets" that it is correct, people do eat chickens and they do keep budgies as pets, and that nobody nowadays eats budgies. I hope that makes sense. =)

No, I didn't think you were. I was just using the comments in your post as a jumping off point for mine, but my comments were directed to everyone who has been participating.:)

[Rebeccaveggie]

Im sorry for name calling:( I didnt mean it to be offensive. Its just I feel so strongly about this subject. It makes me cry just thinking it about things like this.

[Pippin's mom]

Ugh..for some reason this thread won't let me do a new quote...it kees quoting a quote from earlier. Anyway..

Rebeccaveggie~ Apology accepted.:D I understand your feelings, at one point in my life I shared some of those feelings just as strongly, but over the years my opinions have changed. Its fine to share your opinions in a respectful way without name calling and without trying to beat people over the head with them. It makes people have more respect for your opinions.:)

[Rebeccaveggie]

Thanks. As I said, I didnt mean to call anyone names at all. I try not to be like that as it gets you no where in school. Thanks for accepting my apology. Feel free to slap me on the head anytime.

[BUUZBEE]

Just catching up on this thread. I've been off all weekend.

Me, heartless? well, let see, i did just help a newly fledged and damaged coopers hawk eat by feeding her rats for almost a month untill she was healed enough to hunt for herself and didn't need us anymore....

My husband is so heartless he took Mr snake home from his highschool after it had been dumped and run over, feeding it and fixing it up....

ALL of my cats are rescues... one found under a building, one in a grocery store parking lot, one in the parking lot of my work, and the other adopted from the pound a few days before being euthanized....

I've rescued how many birds in my backyard, fixing them up and letting them go or keeping them myself....

Yeah, thats me... heartless.

[naburu]

Im sorry for name calling:( I didnt mean it to be offensive. Its just I feel so strongly about this subject. It makes me cry just thinking it about things like this.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but if it's upsetting you, no one is making you keep coming back to this thread! You CAN ignore it. ;) I had this problem in the past, felt strongly and kept coming back. But then I moved on, and guess what...? So did everyone else. ;)



And nice post Anna.

And Haley... How is i not important... I said eat/ate them... Meaning I wasn't sure if they still did. But reguardless, I think it was a valid point. People DID eat them. I'm just showing that it did happen differently, at one point in time.

[keet_tweet4]

I know you did, but I still don't think it's valid. The ones about horses are valid as at this moment in time, at the same time when people keep them as pets, people are eating them....budgies weren't considered pets then.

[Pippin's mom]

:slap:<.............. Me and Rebeccaveggie LOL!;) Sorry couldn't resist after you gave me permission and everything.:D

[softie]

:slap:..............

:werd:...............

Well. Just reading all those posts of absolutely no sign of resolution, I guess I'm a cold blooded murderer for letting my parents feed our reptiles live crickets and worms. Even though they were all on the chopping block to die, and my parents rescued them for a second chance at life, we're still murderers. Oh, what do we do :rolleyes:

[keet_tweet4]

http://tweettalk.com/forums/images/smilies/azzangel.gif

[Pippin's mom]

LOL! Softie I was too lazy to wait for all the smilies to load so I typed in the code for the one Iwanted and posted to make sure it was the right one then went back and edited my post to add the rest.:) I think it will make sense now..just having a little fun with Rebeccaveggie.;)

[keet_tweet4]

I don't know. I wanted to be included in the talking with smilies thing.

[softie]

LOL! Softie I was to lazy to wait for all the smilies to load so I typed in the code for the one Iwanted and posted to make sure it was the right one then went back and edited my post to add the rest.:) I think it will make sense now..just having a little fun with Rebeccaveggie.;)

Oh, haha, I would have been fine with the slap for everyone! :D Even myself! :D

[keet_tweet4]

Aww. You all added stuff to your posts. I didn't.......I'm left out again. How sad. I got a smilie without the ".........." so yay for me!

This thread is going weird so I'll save it and stop posting. LOL

[tstmard]

Aww. You all added stuff to your posts. I didn't.......I'm left out again. How sad. I got a smilie without the ".........." so yay for me!

This thread is going weird so I'll save it and stop posting. LOL

I liked the little angel smiley. Thought it was very suiting for you.:bowrofl::laughing2::laughing:

[keet_tweet4]

It is, isn't it?

I prefer the devil thing from here. It's cute. (I don't know why) But I'm too impaitent for the smilie list to load. And I can never remember the code (my mind space is dedicated to things more helpful in life - such as how many cans of spam are opened every six seconds) (one, actually) so I just use my own.

http://tweettalk.com/forums/images/smilies/nghn.gifhttp://tweettalk.com/forums/images/smilies/imu2.gifhttp://tweettalk.com/forums/images/smilies/laughathim.gifhttp://tweettalk.com/forums/images/smilies/jumping439.gif

[Rebeccaveggie]

Do people completley miss my post and not acept my sincere apologies? They carry on? Thanks for the slap. It works wonders on a groggy day.

[softie]

Do people completley miss my post and not acept my sincere apologies? They carry on? Thanks for the slap. It works wonders on a groggy day.

We're just having a little fun Rebecca. I think the conversation has died down a bit since the apologies, so it's good :)

And hey, slaps are fun, especially when they come from smilies ;)

[Pippin's mom]

Rebeccaveggie..I put the slap smilie and posted what I did in fun...you were the one who said in your post to just slap you in the head after you apologized. I thought it might lighten things up a bit and make you smile.:)

[AniGamer]

Congrats, do you have it yet, and can i see pics?

[Pippin's mom]

Oh I'm sure when Rainbow gets her we'll be seeing pics!:)

[Rebeccaveggie]

It did make me smile.:)

[Pippin's mom]

It did make me smile.:)

I'm glad.:)

[keet_tweet4]

When are you getting your snake?

Umm, just noticed, "weird" is spelt wrong on the smilie's sign. "Werd".:XD: Those slapping smilies are "werd", as they keep smiling after they get slapped.

[tstmard]

When are you getting your snake?

Umm, just noticed, "weird" is spelt wrong on the smilie's sign. "Werd".:XD: Those slapping smilies are "werd", as they keep smiling after they get slapped.

I always wondered if that's what is was supposed to be.? :XD:

[Rainbow]

When are you getting your snake?
The breeder wants to give him one more feeding before he comes home.

I'll have plenty of photos when the time comes. :D

[Kip.The.Great]

Congrats. :) What a beuatiful snake. We used to have snakes. :) We had childrens, Dimaond, and carpet phythons, I adore them. :p

[Budgietom]

Can't wait to see it! :D

[Rebeccaveggie]

I cant wait to see the beauty!