Why has our new flock died one by one? Pls Help! [Archive]

Melanie

05-31-2007, 05:48 PM

Hello,

We're looking for help pls - a sad story...My 12 yr old daughter finally got a baby budgie for her 12th birthday after asking for more than 2 yrs. She was sooo surprised and incredibly happy. We had the pet store design & set-up the new cage, best food, best everything. We read our new book on budgie care, I did research long before I bought it etc. 'Bing' seemed healthy & happy & was so tame & sweet w my daughter when she had him out of the cage. Day 4 we found him barely breathing on cage bottom, he died in my hand while I was talking to a vet (Easter Sunday). In discussions with the pet store it seemed we did everything just right. So...after a few days of crying, we got a 2nd 'Buzz' - this time we put up a curtain in case of drafts from window and a space heater in case her room got a bit cold. Again, incredible bonding between the two of them, lots of care & love etc. Day 4 we found him dead - same scenario. This time I spend HOURS on the internet, spoke w a vet, more w the pet store trying to figure out what went wrong...got the fire dept in to check for CO - all clear. Got "Sprite" put a towel over carpet for when he was on the floor eating, bought bottled water, kept half his cage covered. My daughter read him the first Harry Potter, spent lots of time w him, he liked sitting on her shoulder while she read, eating millet off the floor etc - we thought he was going to be fine - after 2.5 weeks we found him dead. We have 3 budgie graves outside her window. We are at a loss for what has happened-no one can give us answers. She desperately wants a bird but is sooo afraid as am I...we can't even think about it until we know what went wrong. All three were incredible pets - not one nipped at her - so sad - now all she has in her room is an empty cage and lots of sad memories - she won't sleep there anymore...Any ideas? REally...I have done alot of research & can't figure out what's happening...

Thanks to those who care to read this - much appreciated!!
Melanie:S :S

Budgiekin

05-31-2007, 05:54 PM

First of all, let me say how sorry I am to hear about these negative experiences you have had with budgies. It is so disheartening to hear about situations like this.

Do you think it could have been something environmental? (e.g. perfumes, overheated teflon from cooking pans, fumes of any kind?) Did you get your budgies all from the same place? Were there any signs of illness at all?? (Runny droppings? Lethargic? Not eating?)

The only way to find out for sure what caused the death of these little guys would have been to have a necropsy done. While there is still no guarantee that the results would be conclusive, sometimes they give you the missing piece of the puzzle that helps you understand what went wrong.

Again, I am so sorry that you have had to go through this with your daughter. Just remember that you've got a lot of support here. ;)

Melanie

05-31-2007, 06:08 PM

Hi..thanx for kind words & support. In answer - no perfumes, no teflon, bought at same place but they said they didn't have problems, they also said no prob w pet food/millet, bought the 'best' & what was recommended, birds were healthy when they left. Moist droppings so no dehydration. Put an air cleaner in room just in case - thought this was making a diff since he lived longer - same w the bottled water. When he too died I thought it must be a prob w the carpet (ie. dust mites). Can they kill a bird - do they ingest them when eating millet off carpet? I did take up the towel for washing so for a few days there was no towel over 'wall to wall' - even ventured under her bed & dresser. We're soo confused..can't afford an autopsy - they're in the ground now with loving notes/pics wrapped around their little coffins - ouch! Mel

Budgiekin

05-31-2007, 06:11 PM

Was your carpet old or new? I assume if you are talking about dust mites, that it must be relatively older....

Do you know if the budgies came from the same clutch?

Kerry C

05-31-2007, 06:14 PM

Wow really sorry to hear of all your troubles. There are SO many different things that can kill birds quickly, air fresheners, fabric fresheners, gas emitted from over heated teflon, and the list goes on and on. I would send the bird off for necropsy. Don't go through your avian vet if you can help it. It usually cost more and they only send a few tissue samples. If you send the bird off to a vet school they have the entire body to work with. It is true that sometimes you get a non conclusive report back - which is frustrating.

I use the University of AR when I need a necropsy done. If you would like more info on that let me know. I can not tell where you are located. As a quick tip any bird you find dead and you want to do this to you need to immerse the body in cold soapy water (dish shop is fine). Wrap the body in a paper towel and store in the refrigerator NOT the freezer. Freezing ruptures the cells and make the body useless. The body will stay fresh for 7 days. This brings the body core temp down to slow the breakdown of tissues.

Just wondering.....have you washed out the cage, cups, perches, toys with good soap and water? Grasping at straws, maybe it's residue if the pet shop sprayed for roaches. Did you buy you feed out of an open ben? Maybe that could also be contaminated.

Sadly pet stores are the last place you go for bird information. You are dealing with min wage people that are not really trained in bird care. Their motive is to sell you as much as possible.

Can you try getting a bird from a private breeder or a different pet shop?

Kerry

Babyluv12

05-31-2007, 06:15 PM

I'm sorry to hear all this happen you guys. Are you going to the same petstore? You said no teflon which was the first thing I thought off...If nothing else it has to be the petstore even if they say nothing is wrong with them. They have an obligation to tell you if they know but most of the time they don't know and sometimes even if they do they might not say anything since it's lost profit. I have had a bad experience with a certain pet store. Stormy has a fatty tumor and had scaly face mites..Not pretty. All is good now but I would say if you do have the heart to try again try a diffrent store.

Melanie

05-31-2007, 06:26 PM

Hi...thanx for the info. Too late for the necropsy - I brought the 2nd one into the pet store & they said he looked fine, maybe a bit thin..?? We thought he was a little 'piggy' the way he ate the spray millet & got right in his food dishes and flailed his wings around sending out the husks. Maybe this food isn't the greatest for babies - all 3 seemed to ignore all the 'extra' bits & pieces & just ate the seed (Tropimix-Egg Food mix for budgies..). We never got to the extra's fruit/veggies w the first two, but gave the 3rd organic lettuce greens w a little orange - he never ate it either - had to toss it. Yes we cleaned the cage & perches every few days w the 3rd (first two didn't last long enough for more than one cleaning). We're thinking a larger breed of parakeet may be 'stronger' - like a lovebird - she sure misses the avian interaction - kept her from computer/tv after school that's for sure! She even started Harry Potter 2 w Sprite... My husband & other daughter think we're crazy to even contemplate another bird...her room is the only place it could go though...vaulted ceilings & resident 10 yr old dalmation in the rest of the house...and no they never were left alone...he never even 'met'/entered the room with the 3rd one...he was just a little curious w the other two when we introduced them. We would not buy from a pet store again - even though it's a big chain and the girl I liaised w seemed very knowledgeable & sensitive. What do you think about a Lovebird - or should we just forget it all - and hide away the delightfully colourful cage w toys she got for her birthday - really is a sweet set-up - wondering if some of the 'bird' friendly toys caused their deaths now...Bye for now, Mel

Melanie

05-31-2007, 06:32 PM

Well...good question...we just moved in 1.5 yrs ago to this house...I'd say it is old & our vacuum cleaner isn't the best...have you ever heard how many dust mites are in a square inch of carpet?? Even newer ones (I hear the underlay can be a prob). I thought maybe carpet freshner previous owner applied but you'd think that would dissapate after 1.5 yrs. I'd like to wrip it up but that means doing the whole landing & we've got other 'fixer upper' priorities w this 'new'/old house...

The first 2 may have come from same 'clutch' - last one was not as we waited for her 'new batch' to come in...All from same breeder though I assume - she says the ones in the store haven't died, nor did they get any calls from others that purchased them - I kinda believe her as she seems honest & caring...Thx, Mel

BUUZBEE

05-31-2007, 06:36 PM

Welcome to the forum... I'm really sad to hear you and your daughter are going thru this!

So in her room, there are no plug in air freshners, no candles being lit? If you plan to get another bird, i would stick with a budgie. they are the perfect first time bird. take the cage, completely wash it down with Oxyfresh (is an all-purpose cleanser and disinfectant). Replaced all perches. Also wash the cover in oxyfresh too.

also... get your new bird from another source.

Melanie

05-31-2007, 06:43 PM

Thanx for the welcome...no perfumes, candles, air freshners (just air purifier), no blow dryers, hair straightners (in sisters room next door) - I say the last 2 as I've heard they can be treated w teflon that reacts at high heats - the space heater doesn't look to have teflon - it is quite new. The cage/perches were brand new so they haven't even gotten dirty - my girl did wipe down & droppings w plain water. I agree though - before we contemplate another we will disinfect w Oxygel - that's the brand I use around the house. I don't think we can contemplate a budgie though - really - 3 since her birthday on Apr 13 - wouldn't you think a lovebird may be 'stronger' - all 3 were 'babies' (ie. under 6 mos). Wow - they were awesome pets and bonded w her very quickly - stepping up, sitting on her shoulder, nibbling her hair, hiding under her long hair behind her neck, sitting on her chest while she lay in bed etc...

What are other peoples experiences w baby budgies - are they that incredibly sensitive & prone to die?? I wish I knew what was wrong...Mel

Kerry C

05-31-2007, 06:49 PM

I wouldn't give up, I hate to hear that even though you have been given a huge disappointment! Budgie don't drop over like that in the same manner, there's problem somewhere. It's either the bird stock or the environment. Most pet stores buy their birds from bird mills. The birds are bred to exhaustion and the offspring are weakened and small. Many times the chicks are not totally weaned and the end up starving to death.

I personally don't care for lovebirds. They can hit a pitch that goes right through me like fingernails on a chalk board. There are people who feel the same way about budgies.

If you are in the U.S. I can try and help you locate a breeder of English budgies. As the Membership Secretary of the BAA we have members in most states. http://www.budgerigarassociation.com If you are out of the U.S. I would suggest you go over to Budgerigar World Magazine and lick on their links to breeders in other countries. Send me a Private Message if you want to look for local breeders.

Kerry

Melanie

05-31-2007, 07:05 PM

ZoologyGirl

05-31-2007, 07:22 PM

I got both my budgies at under 6 months old and had no problem. I'm not sure what is causing it but I would think it's something in the environment, I just don't know what. I don't think it's the food, even if it's low quality seed it probably wouldn't kill the budgie in only a couple weeks or less. Where is the cage kept in the house? Do you have any dupont stainmaster carpet/funiture? Self cleaning oven? febreeze? I have no clue what it could be. If it seemed to be eating and drinking fine I'd think it's an environmental factor either in your house or from the pet store.

Melanie

05-31-2007, 07:32 PM

Hi - thx for reply. HIgh quality seed. Cage is in corner of my daughers room - there are 3 narrow, long windows around it - which is why I was concerned about drafts after 1st one died - it was still quite cold here then. That's why I put up additional towel in front of one window and put a space heater in front of other two & kept it on low just to even things out. Her room does get cold in the winter - the first was bought early Spring - by the time the last one was here we stopped turning on the heater as it was warm enough. We never changed the location as it was the best - her room isn't big and we thought the birds would enjoy looking out the window so didn't want to put it elsewhere. Also, the cage is on a low table rather than a high one like the stores sell..? Thx, Mel

Melanie

05-31-2007, 07:57 PM

Actually Zoology girl...forgot to also say, why do you mention stainmaster carpet...I don't know what kind it is as we've only been here 1.5 yrs...do you know of deadly consequences with certain carpets? I've heard new underlay can be toxic but that wouldn't be the case here I don't think as nothing is 'new'...thx, Mel

ZoologyGirl

05-31-2007, 08:10 PM

I believe birds can get sick from the nonstick coating on stainmasater and scotchguard type material.

Kerry C

05-31-2007, 09:04 PM

Thanx for the info...I am in Ontario, Canada. I've done some searching but didn't find any local breeders. Interesting comment about love birds, I thought they were akin to the 'big brothers' of budgies in terms of temperment, intelligence, bonding to humans, etc...We want a bird that can come out of the cage & interact...these budgies were really great!

LOL Mel, not to make light of your situation - Lovebirds come from Africa and budgies come from Australia. No kissing cousins here. Also budgies are in the parakeet family and lovebirds are in the parrot family. Mostly all has to do with tail length.

English budgie cocks are easy to hand tame if you clip their wings. They will grow back. English budgies are usually raised for exhibition. Non will be hand fed because this stunts their growth and size is about everything in a show bird. I had a friend from Washington State tell me he and a buddy were selling English budgies at a bird mart. A bunch of people were fussing that no one had hand tame English. These guys looked at each other, took 2 cocks out of the sale pen and cliped the wings. They worked with the birds for about 20/30 mins. They sold them for more than what was in their stock cages. They did that all afternoon. Just wanted to plant a thought.

Here are some Canadian web sites that might help you.

Hamilton and district budgerigar society
http://www3.sympatico.ca/davehansen/index.html

The budgerigar and foreign bird society
http://www.bfbsbirdclub.org/

Durham aviculture society
http://www.birdclub.ca/

The western Canada budgerigar society
http://www.westerncanadabudgerigar.org/

The Avian Advancement Council of Canada Which has a list of shows
http://www.aacc.ca/

Celyste

05-31-2007, 09:20 PM

Hi Melanie!
It might be hard to do... but i would really stick with budgies. When I bought my first pair, I knew next to nothing about the birds, and we've muddled through pretty well. They are actually sitting on top of their cage looking at me right now after 3 years. So they are actually pretty hardy little things. My apt has electric heat, so it doesn't get much about 18 deg's C all winter, and they are fine with that. Same as they were ok with eating an all seed diet for their first year with me. As I said, I didn't know a thing about them other than they were gorgeous funny little birds that I couldn't stop watching and loving.

What you might want to do is watch your local newspaper, or the online classifieds. I'm not sure where you are in Ontario, but there's usually one family in every town with a prolific breeding pair. Mine came from a back road of Meaford (nope, not where I live, but the price was right, and they seemed like good bird parents). My latest pair I bought from a PetsMart, and I've had to baby them a long a bit... bad wing clips, one with a temperment issue... I'll go private sale when I buy again.

I've used the Tropican Eggmix too. The birds all love it - but same as you noticed, they don't eat everything that's in it. I've switched to Zupreem pellets since then (and treat with seeds and millet) and now they don't waste their food. They love their pellets.

I'd have to agree with everyone above... it's either environmental or something from the birds/petstore. And since you've checked the environment way more thoroughly than I ever have (and living in an apt above a restaurant probably isn't the best of bird enviro's... esecially compared to a house) I'd lean towards the birds and petstore.

Nancy

05-31-2007, 09:46 PM

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I can certainly understand your hesitation to get another budgie. I , too, had a budgie die with in 10 days of purchas at a pet store. Apparently it was sick when I bought it. The vet was treating it for gastric yeast infection. It is spread through feces so I wouldn't get any bird from that store no matter how clean the cages were. I went to a bird show and got my English budgie. I agree with Kerry. You might want to try this. He is bigger than the store type parakeet and an amazing bird. It is the only kind of budgie I will ever buy again.

catsnkeets

05-31-2007, 11:00 PM

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine what would make that happen. Maybe you could spread your search to your neighborhood? Maybe someone is using somthing that is getting in your house.

pal0m1n0

06-01-2007, 01:22 AM

I am also sorry to hear about your experience. This may seem an insulting question, but did you remove the husks from the top of the seeds? It has happened that birds have starved to death because they don't move the husks out of the way to get to the seed underneath and the owner thinks there is still lots of seed in the cup.

How old is your house? Is there any chance it has a mold problem? If the problem is environmental, I would suggest that you really do want to check it out since it could be making you sick as well, just more slowly.

If you can find a local breeder see if they would come to your house to look at your set up, maybe they could spot something that you missed.

Did you find them dead in the morning when you uncovered their cage? Maybe they are being bitten by an insect or spider.

If you buy from petsmart I know they have a two week guarantee.

If you decide to try again, try checking out your local SPCA, some of them have budgies. If you do and the bird dies soon, I really don't see any other way of solving the mystery than by a necroscopy. Since you live in Ontario, I would think the vet school in Guelph would handle it. Someone else who lives in Ontario and has had it done should be able to help out here.

Where about in Ontario do you live? Urban, rural, etc.

Babyluv12

06-01-2007, 02:53 AM

Have you thought about a cockatiel? The females are sooo sweet and cuddly. Also, very good in a one bird enviroment with human interaction. They are very smart birds.. OH_ BY THE WAY I am not putting down budgies at all but it just sounds like a good enviroment for a tiel and you did mention you are thinking off other species.

And about the spiter comment made right above me by pal0m1n0- my Bella died from a spider bite so it is possible.

BUUZBEE

06-01-2007, 12:37 PM

Hi - thx for reply. HIgh quality seed.

I just want to add... It doesnt matter the quality of the seed, even the best quality seed can get a bad batch of one of the seeds added to the mix. A tiny bit of contaminated seed with mold spores can go undetected, and end up killing birds. A few years back I lost 3 birds to this! but chances of this being the reason are slim since your birds were all babies and it takes months to kill them.

BUUZBEE

06-01-2007, 12:45 PM

also.... I am 95% possitive scotchgard (i beleive used in stainmaster carpets) is toxic. If you get more bids dont let them play on the carpet, have them play on the bed, or get a playstand for them.

Also.... dont get me wrong, you all know i love my budgies... but until you resolve this, I dont sugest spending $75 on a tiel, and i'm sure even more on a lovebird! Budgies are really hardy birds, so as i posted before, get your birds from a new breeder, and you HAVE to dissenfect the cage. Even though the perches look clean, they are cheep, dont take a chance with wooden perches, just replace them!

pal0m1n0

06-01-2007, 06:29 PM

I wanted to add, what is your cage like? Did you buy it new? I sure hope we can help you solve this mystery.

Wonderbird

06-01-2007, 07:37 PM

Some air purifiers emit ozone so I don't know how close the cage was to this. Could this have been a factor? And I don't know others' experience with these as I don't have one myself. Just a thought. xx

Wonderbird

06-01-2007, 10:44 PM

Someone on another site posted this for someone as to what can happen to cause a parrot to die. Hope this helps find some answers.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Birds-General-2349/Parakeet-sudden-death.htm

Melanie

06-25-2007, 10:17 PM

Summer holidays are a couple of days away and my daughter is really missing the bird interaction so we're contemplating trying again now that she'll be home more. Thanks for all your great ideas and thoughts.

To answer a few questions: the bird cage was brand new and top quality - recommended by Petsmart - where I got the birds. We are in the country so no immediate neighbours. My daughter put in a teaspoon of new seed in each cup each day plus changed the water (using Dasani bottled). We did not clean the cage everyday though - only every 4 days or so - could this be the problem? Petsmart thought that would be sufficient and I think our book said so too..?? No sign of spider in and around the cage - I think we would have spotted one given three of them died. Two died in the afternoon, one we found dead in the morning (he lasted the longest - 2.5 weeks )-: I searched to see if there was a recall on that seed after the last scare and my intuition is suggesting that maybe it was bad (Tropimix). No ozone in the air cleaner.

I think it must be the carpet - I don't know how old it is and what they did to it before we moved in 1.5 yrs ago but looks new enough. We kept a towel on the ground for bird 3 but I know he ended up venturing onto the carpet quite a bit too. Does anyone else let their budgies eat off the carpet - are you worried about dust mites - can they ingest them and die?? We're still confused. We will go to another source - preferably a private breeder - but haven't found one yet - we live near Ottawa. That's all for now...must go!

:S Cheers all, Mel

pal0m1n0

06-25-2007, 11:30 PM

You could check out the local SPCA, apparently some of them have budgies and other birds. Someone there might even be able to help with any environmental issues/ suggestions. Before you bring another bird in, I suggest you try an extra thorough cleaning of the room. If possible wash the carpet with water not the soap solution, although I have heard that if you don't use a machine a mix of hot water and vinegar is very good. Wash down the walls, etc. Did your birds have access to any plants? Try to budget to have a necroscopy done if it happens again.

misslinda

06-26-2007, 01:32 AM

Do you have a space heater that you used, that may have teflon it? I read somewhere that a lot of small appliances have teflon in them? Just a thought.

Bea

06-26-2007, 02:35 AM

What extra's do you have in the cage. The idea of the pet shop setting it up for you with the "best" of everything sets off alarm bells in my mind. I have to say that many pet shops just aren't that knowledgable on birds and will tell you anything to get you to spend more money. What type of toys are in the cage? Are you feeding grit/sand? What are you using to line the cage floor?

Some toys have little pieces (rope toys especially) that can come off and impact in the crop and digestive system of the bird. Grit/sand can also do the same if the birds are allowed to eat too much of it. Some type of beddings for the cage floor are also toxic (it's amazing how ridiculous some "bird" products are), so it's best to stick with just plain newspaper or paper towels. Is there a calcium perch in the cage, this is a long shot but some calcium perches are made with an unsafe metal rod through them, this zinc from this can seep through the calcium perch and cause metal poisoning when chewed.

The only other thing is that you're buying from a pet shop. Any bird i've owned that has died shortly afterwards has been from a pet shop, breeders are much much better even if it means travelling a little further. You made a reference to Pet Smart earlier - my understanding is that this is a large chain pet store. Most large chain pet stores get their birds from back yard breeders or bird mills and the health of the birds wouldn't be a sure thing. Just because the pet store workers say none of theirs have been dying doesn't make it true. I know someone who breeds budgies in Ontario - is that miles away from you? He has the most beautiful and friendly baby budgies.

On the idea of love birds, i wouldn't class them as a beginner bird. They get cage territorial, can often be one man birds, they have a chirp that is ear piercing and when they put it to use their beak can rip flesh (i've been bitten by my friends). One bite could be enough to put your daughter right off birds which i'm sure you don't want.

Budgies and cockatiels would be the two birds i would recommend for beginners, i have both and couldn't pick a favourite. Both are typically incredibly hardy birds when bought from a good source, so it could just be really bad luck for you so far. I would try even buying from a different pet shop, that might make the difference.

PS: My guys all play on and pick at the carpet, no ill effects that i've seen. :)

pal0m1n0

06-26-2007, 02:29 PM

Bea, do you know which brand of the calcium perch is unsafe? I have some with the metal rods.

Babyluv12

06-26-2007, 06:14 PM

Bea, do you know which brand of the calcium perch is unsafe? I have some with the metal rods.

I use to have one (pink) until I saw that the metal rod where it attatches was rusting! I took it out soo fast!

Bea

06-26-2007, 08:46 PM

Bea, do you know which brand of the calcium perch is unsafe? I have some with the metal rods.

I think several do it. Contact the maker of your one and ask them what type of metal is the rod through the middle (don't say is it stainless steel, they might just say yes), if it's anything but stainless steel then i personally wouldn't use it. You can also try to work it out yourself, stainless steel looks shiny while other metals look a bit duller.

hozie07

06-27-2007, 11:15 PM

so sorry to hear about that , do you have any other animal in the house?

kcasey_72

07-01-2007, 02:05 PM

Wow I am sorry to hear of all the loss, I am a new bird owner as well I agree that it seems hard to think about a new budgie but I think you should find a reputable breeder in your area and find another budgie as they are easier to tame from what I hear and your daughter loved them so. It is so strange and sad. Good luck with what ever you end up doing. I have heard though that Love birds need to be in pairs and can tend to be biters I had inquired about them also they get real loud. Good luck and I am so sorry for your loss.

deafe dog

09-16-2007, 07:46 AM

Sorry about the loss.
Just read the post today.
I noticed you said your daughter put a teaspoon of food in every day.
Budgies control their temperature by burning their food.
At the moment my flock has bred 12 budgies in 3 clutches,the oldest ones being six months old and the youngest ones just ready to leve the nest, each one of these eats I would say a lot more than a teaspoon of food in a day, especially when they are growing.

I have an aviery with 4 gravity feeders and and a bowl of loose seed.

this may be something to look at.

Glynn